Newbie DM, Would Like Suggestions for Monsters to Pit Against BIG Level 12 party?

[Runa]

Hi there! I'm a newbie DM, and am planning on running a 4E one-shot game, with a from-scratch story, hopefully for this Halloween. I'd like some suggestions/advice to help me make a good, fun game for my players.

It's especially tricky as we've decided to do it as a Level 12 adventure, and it is going to be a big party: at minimum, we're expecting 6 players -- possibly 8 or more. Now, I don't get joy from being a player-killer, but at the same time, I really don't want people to be bored I want them to have a nice challenge, and to have a board that has enough creatures on it for everyone to get a chance to do something, you know?

So, what I need is an idea of how to populate this board -- especially with monsters that will be easy to fluff the right way.

The idea behind this one shot, which is feudal-Japan-inspired, is that the PCs have to help a village survive an onslaught of undead creatures inspired by classic Japanese ghost stories, and Take Care Of Whatever Caused This: which turns out to be a creature that among other things, is capable of possessing and controlling a dead body like a puppet, and has taken over the corpse of the local priest/caretaker of the graveyard -- hence why the whole place is in spiritual disarray.

So, while it's not a requirement, as I'm going to alter fluff as needed and damage types can be switched out and such, if it helps narrow things down? I'm looking to create undead/spirit/ghost type monsters (some of which might be reasoned-with/placated by the correct actions) to be roving the graveyard and surrounding area. I'm also hoping to create an appropriately-leveled boss fight with the possessed priest; I can make him in the character builder we have, but if anybody has some general advice on catering a boss fight like that for a large party, I'm all ears.

Thanks ahead of time for any help!

[Gilphon]

Well- this isn't quite advice, but more like a warning- with a party that big, every round is going to take a long time.

I guess I'd suggest making liberal use of minions to fill up your XP budjet- the first round will still be tricky, but the numbers should whittled down quickly after that, making things go as quickly as a group that large possibly can go.

I for the boss- I'd suggest making him a solo with a bunch of abilities that don't that have to roll dice for, and stuff that triggers on the start of every PC's turn- maybe something like a big aura of miasma that deals 10 necrotic damage to everyone who starts their turn inside. And, of course, lots of AOE powers he can use to bring the hurt on his own turn- and you'll want them to really sting.

More general advice now: use this for your monster stats, and then add thematically appropriate tricks- undead typically have vulnerability to radiant damage, and resistance or immunity to poison and necrotic, just to get you started.

[Runa]

Well- this isn't quite advice, but more like a warning- with a party that big, every round is going to take a long time.

I guess I'd suggest making liberal use of minions to fill up your XP budjet- the first round will still be tricky, but the numbers should whittled down quickly after that, making things go as quickly as a group that large possibly can go.

That it does! This is actually our usual group, which has always been on the large side, so I'm well aware of how long rounds can take. It's part of why I'm mostly centering it on the graveyard and surroundings; fewer encounters that way, and more chance of completing it in one night without having to spill over to the next week.

I can definitely see how making liberal use of minions would help, too. That's very good advice! I seem to recall most of our DMs do the same, actually

As for the boss- I'd suggest making him a solo with a bunch of abilities that don't that have to roll dice for, and stuff that triggers on the start of every PC's turn- maybe something like a big aura of miasma that deals 10 necrotic damage to everyone who starts their turn inside. And, of course, lots of AOE powers he can use to bring the hurt on his own turn- and you'll want them to really sting.

Ooh, yeah, that sounds workable! I was thinking also maybe an aura where they'd have to save against a Fear effect (since the monster controlling him is vulnerable if it's extracted from the corpse, I definitely see a lot of things like that intended to keep things from getting close to its host) -- but maybe, given the number of players, it should be more of an AOE that hits every X rounds or something?

Totally doing the miasma thing though, for sure. The combination of the two should be pretty scary, yeah?

More general advice now: use this for your monster stats, and then add thematically appropriate tricks- undead typically have vulnerability to radiant damage, and resistance or immunity to poison and necrotic, just to get you started.

Ah! Thank you That looks helpful! And thanks for pointing out the resist/immun to poison thing, I always forget that one, even when I remember vulnerability radiant.

[MoutonRustique]

My piece of advice : use terrain powers/actions that the characters can do that are clearly superior to encounter powers.

Why : eats up the player's round quickly and gives the player the feeling of positive contribution.

If you know your players well enough, you can even "trick the board" into creating those effects to especially cater to those players who take the longest to complete their round of actions (you know, that guy that looks at the DM and says : "I'm doing X" then waits for confirmation, then rolls to attack, takes a bit to calculate the total, says "I hit defense x with y", waits for confirmation of hit, then gathers his damage die, double checks, then rolls his damage die, takes a bit to calculate - usually saying numbers out loud in a manner that confuses the DM into thinking he's done 3 or 4 times during the calculations - then says the final damage value.**Plus there are probably one or two "take back" moments when he finds, or thought he found, a mistake in his adding.... you know, that guy.)

Examples:
- activating a holy shrine that pulses with holy power : deal 2d10 radiant dmg to foes, heal 2d10 to allies
- release ghostly hound guardians : create foo ghosts that deal 10 dmg every round each to a foe. They count as allies.
- toll the sacred bell : thunder damage and daze enemies

Edit: For extra bang-for-buck - you can have effects that are INCREDIBLY powerful (~ x2 daily) but that require ~3 rounds of actions to activate or setup.

This requires that the players know about the possibility AND how awesome the payout is likely to be.

Second advice - for one shots, I would increase the "lethality" to give it a chance to probably kill a few PCs.
Possible ways :
1 - simply increase damage (can get swingy - thus hard to plan or optimize drama)
2 - have a setup of waves of enemies which total a good deal more than "regular encounter XP" (since you control their existence, easy to tune to taste.)
3 - increase drama by striking at Healing Surges directly - they're not going to need all of them anyway, but loosing them to the enemy is still scary and you're not really reducing their effectiveness or risking a surprise TPK.

If you're using both pieces of advice, remember to take into account the power you're giving them with the environmental actions.

Third one (final, I promise) - create situations which require using the environment.
A straight forward example (applicable to a Japanese graveyard) of this could be:
- all your foes deal x2 damage
- there is a quick ritual/shrine/thing-a-ma-gig that will weaken all the foes
Effect: you can simply use the regular damage, but if they fail to do/upkeep the thing, just x2 the result.
Notes: make sure the have the actions required feel dynamic - NO "bang this drum while the rest of the group fights and does cool stuff".
Possible YES to: kill a minion ghost within this burst 2 around the shrine
Possible YES to: grab that live chicken there, kill it here (replace this with : "sacrifice a healing surge" to remove the silly factor). This spawns an hungry ghost. Trap that hungry ghost in the lantern. Take the lantern and light the holy taper. Use taper on shrine - BOOM! [something awesome goes here]
For extra evil-DM-points : the effect lasts 2 rounds, and the ritual takes 3... hehehe (watch out for that 1 round at full power... hehehe)

My 2cp.

[qube]

my suggestion: something that keeps the combat interesting. Rounds are gonna take long, some if nothing happening, attentions will drop fast.

Plus, keep your own monsters simple to save time (like, keep away from many-dice roll monster. like those with 2 recharge abilities)


I recall a final combat I DMed with 6 or 7 players.

It was a monster, and every round it summoned 2 minions.

the minions where random (I had a table with 5 differnt types - kinda like elemental types (flying & immune to radiant; explode on death & immune to fire; 50% chance to survive death unless hit by radiant & immune to necrotic; damaging aura & immune to psychic; ongoing poison damage & immune to poison).
I didn't roll on a table to see who was next, but picked one so it seemed random (depending on the hit points of the monster (if it ended in a 1 or 2, the first type got selected).
it's not 'true' random, but saves on dice rolls.

the minion spawning made every round different then the previous, so every reound I was able to recapture the focus of the players.

[Havelocke]

Something that could work here for undead feudal Japan style monsters are undead shugenja. LICHES! Ghosts were blood drinkers I think too, not sure if there are stats for Pennagolan or not (spelling?). Skeletons could be equipped with better armor and higher quality weapons too. I fully agree with the terrain placement and effects, they can warp a battlefield quickly. Some sort of anti-life aura around a significantly evil sorcerer buried in a shrine. A Torii that counts as a holy shrine where the spirits cannot pass under it (have the ranged PC's stand back and let fly!). What about a death knight/samurai on a skeletal steed? Undead archers, spearmen, formed up in rows to combat the heroes under the leadership of a deceased general? Have fun with it and let us know how it goes.

[Runa]

This is a lot to think about but has been quite a bit of help - lots of cool ideas (I'm especially fond of the idea of spirits not being able to pass under Tori gates! I might stat the possessed priest out like a Lich too, since he's undead...hmm!)

I've also found a couple of useful tools, such as this Encounter Builder (which links to monster profiles on D&D Insider, which luckily hubby has an account on, woot).

I'd like some thoughts on the first of two combat Encounters I'm composing, though? Especially as I'm doing a monster from scratch, and I'm kind of combining a listed monster's abilities, with some original abilities/attacks, and hoping to figure out how much xp it should be worth, and if anyone feels it needs any tweaks?

Now, quick note: it seems that some people might not be able to make it to the game that weekend after all, so I am downsizing the estimate to "6" player party - I figure I can always add more Minions if there are more players? The Encounter Builder makes it a bit easier to calculate xp budgets, it seems, so there's that. According to the EB, my xp budget for this kind of Encounter (not a major encounter, but a nice, startling one that can give a good scare right off the bat and some immediate satisfaction to those in the group who enjoy doing combat) is about 4200.

The details:

First Combat Encounter comes as the non-local PCs approach the town, and must cross a river. There, depending on what they do re: exploring or perception checks and the like, they should discover at least some of the following:

*A small shrine dedicated to "The Lady of the River" that looks like it has fallen into slight disrepair - perhaps been abandoned and untended for a while?

*A bag on the bridge across the river, which upon further examination is filled with cucumbers and squash.

*A body near the bridge, of a man who on close inspection appears to have been drowned in the river!


Now, either after the PCs have examined the shrine or when they begin to approach the river (perhaps to examine the man's abandoned bag or the body), they will hear a woman's voice from the river, calling out for help!

IT'S A TRAP :D

The voice is that of The Drowned Lady -- an anguished-turned-malicious spirit who is in fact the one the "Lady of the River" shrine is to. If they are clever enough to make her an appropriate offering, probably incense, at her shrine, then they can deactivate her in, oh, maybe two or three turns sound fair?

If not, though... :D

The Drowned Lady will repeatedly try to make them share her misery or her fate, whatever she can manage: she starts to do them small chunks of damage, attempting to throw waves of despair and psychically-charged keens of ghostly power at them, and, should any PC be foolish enough to stay close to the river, she will try to force them in, either by a compulsion, or an actual pull attack. If she is not defeated in combat or appeased somehow, she will continue to harass, attack and pursue the PCs - her defenses are higher (AC 30 vs. 26 for instance) when she is in the river or on its bank, so if they're smart they'll pull away from it and she'll follow onto dry land...

Now, the attacks I wanted to give her are:

(Original attack) "Despairing Compulsion" - a Standard At-Will, range 2 squares; +15 vs Will, which on a successful hit, renders the PC temporarily overcome with despair and a compulsion to jump into the river (and they get a move action when this happens MUAHAHA); if they are more than one movement away from the river, they can save against the effect at the end of her turn (after moving closer to the river), but if they are one movement or less away from being in the river, then...drowning time! They are under the water's surface; they are Stunned, and Immobilized, and must save against each of the two statuses. (Strategy-wise, she will only do this if you are not yet in the river. Otherwise, she does her other attacks)

(Original attack) "Vengeful Yank" - Standard, At-will, when a creature is within 2 squares of her or the river. +15 vs Reflex. On success, the creature is yanked below the surface of the water, and is Restrained (save ends).

(Original attack) "Despair Wave", +15 vs Will, At-Will, Minor action, range of 3 squares, does 1d6 of psychic/cold damage on hit.

And I'm borrowing a couple offensive abilities, with minor tweaks, from the "Keening Spirit" monster (for those with Insider log-in)

Specifically, I'm borrowing:

Tormenting Keening: aura 1; any enemy within the aura that takes damage from a power that has the thunder or psychic keyword takes 5 extra psychic damage.

And for a supernatural 'claw attack' (she shrieks in anguished, frustrated rage as...):

Passing Strike (standard, at-will) Thunder
The [Drowned Lady] can shift up to 1 square before or after the attack; +17 vs Reflex; 7 thunder damage.
(I'm thinking of changing it to combo Thunder/Psychic damage?)

Also thinking of reusing a lot of the "Keening Spirit" stats (save for lowering her AC outside of the river), but upping the HP (since she's not intended as a Minion)?

Namely:

Initiative +15 Senses: Perception +11
AC 30 (when in/next to river; drops to 26 when away from river) Fortitude 26, Reflex 30, Will 28
Immune disease, poison; Resist 10 necrotic, 10 thunder, insubstantial
Speed fly 6 (hover); phasing

I was thinking of giving the Lady 100 HP - and make her worth at least 1000 xp? Does this sound fair?

Now, there are gonna be some Minions in the Encounter too: after 3 rounds of this ruckus around the river, it attracts the attention of a swarm of Kappa...which, there doesn't seem to be a version of in 4e for some reason? So I'll just find some Minions of appropriate xp level that I can tweak for flavor, I think (such as throwing in the fact that they can be "defeated" by the usual vs. Kappa methods, such as making them bow to weaken their defenses, or offering them a cucumber -- Roll a Nature Check, please! ).

I'm thinking of chucking...maybe a dozen or so at the PCs? If I give the Kappa the same xp as the original "Keening Spirit" Minion, then a dozen of them would work out to 3000 xp, so...that would put it pretty close to the xp budget, yes?

Assuming that the above works out for a first Encounter, the PCs then would proceed into the town that they were heading to/head back to the town (depending on whether they picked my option of "local" for background), whereupon if the villagers learn of what happened, they will react with horror, stating that the man who was killed was a member of their village who was going to do the usual offering to the Kappa (which normally protect their village a little and don't bother people much, so long as they are fed an offering each day).

The Headsman of the village will tell them that the violent spirit they just defeated was the Lady of the River, the ghost of an unknown woman who drowned in the river many years ago; the small shrine nearby was erected at the site of her cremation and funeral, to help appease her unhappy ghost and keep it at rest...and this has worked for years! If the PCs mention the shrine looks like it has fallen into disuse, then the Headsman will note with worry that the local priest should have been taking care of that for them, and that this is the last straw: this isn't the first case of a ghost showing up around town recently, and when the villagers have sought out the priest who lives in the shrine on the hill, he has been either impossible to find or acted oddly, aggressively, and rebuffed their pleas for help.

And with Obon, the festival of the dead, the night that the barrier between the realms of the dead and the living thins, coming up...this is Not Good.

Would the PCs be willing to help put the spirits to rest and discover the truth about what has happened to the priest, before the Witching Hour of Obon arrives and brings gods know what to the village? If necessary, they will be rewarded handsomely, as the village has many successful craftsmen...