RWBY VII: Winter is here

[Rawhide]

Guys, I know that a few of you are highly resistant to the change, but the split is happening, it has happened, and this will go so much easier if you can all just give it a fair go. There are people quite thankful for the change, please help it work for them.


This isn't a case of sweeping criticisms under the rug or trying to hide them, it's to allow people to discuss their criticisms of the show unimpeded and without impeding on other discussions.

This isn't a case of one thread of general discussion (e.g. speculation about new events, news releases, or information on the video game) which allows criticism of the show's creation and one thread of general discussion which does not, it's a thread for general discussion and a thread specifically for rewriting and criticism.

The primary purpose of the rewrite thread is right there in the name, it's for people to discuss how they would rewrite elements of RWBY, from the smallest tiny bit, to the whole show from the very beginning. The second purpose is to allow criticism about the writing/animation/etc. With these criticisms in the rewrite thread, those who are doing the rewrites can easily see what aspects people don't like and incorporate that into their designs.

The two (rewriting and criticisms) go hand in hand, but general discussion does not. While it will likely be necessary to reference information which by itself is better suited in the general thread, you shouldn't treat the rewrite thread like a general thread. Please take the effort to do your best to post to the right thread. Posting to the wrong thread hinders the function of both threads.


Please, even if you currently don't like the idea of having the freedom of a thread dedicated to rewriting and criticism, I'm asking you to try and give it a go, to put down your prejudices and try to to make this work rather than resisting it every step of the way. Please give both threads a chance and work with us to make them better places. Your assistance in this matter would be greatly appreciated.

[Swaoeaeieu]

Hey, since this post is critical of Grimm Eclipse, doesn't it belong in the critque thread?

we are on page three and that joke is already starting to feel old. Why all the fuss about two threads?

[DoctorFaust]

we are on page three and that joke is already starting to feel old. Why all the fuss about two threads?

Well, in my case, it's because Rawhide was actually being critical of Grimm Eclipse, and I was under the inpression that that sort of thing was supposed to go in the criticism thread.

[LaZodiac]

I haven't seen the footage of the game play you're talking about so I wouldn't know, but it sounds like what I expected. A below average beat em up game. It'll be interesting when/if I get my hands on it and see how it actually feels.

[Lethologica]

Reminded me of Dynasty Warriors, which enthralled me for a while in eighth grade. Also Vindictus, which enthralled me for a while in college. Question is--does it have either the setting depth of the former or the combat challenge of the latter? (There's also the Naruto fighting games, which--come to think of it--are quite similar to Grimm Eclipse in style. I only have an hour or so of playtime in those, though.)

we are on page three and that joke is already starting to feel old. Why all the fuss about two threads?

Most of the recent fuss isn't about the split itself so much as the strict editorial control (no renaming of the other thread, escalating a discussion of letter capitalization in this thread to the point of mod action, evaluating individual posts for approved negative content) that has accompanied it. Personally, I was doing just fine post-split discussing my complaints about the show in the complaint thread and not posting at all in this one, until my post got moved because it was misinterpreted as not complaining about the show. Leaving aside the grouping fallacy implied by forcing every post in a negative conversation to be negative, if I'm not permitted even the discretion to determine whether my own post constitutes complaining, you bet I'll kick up a fuss about it.

[Grinner]

The Grimm Eclipse trailer reminds me of that One Piece game a lot. Even so, it doesn't strike me as being much more than a way to stop thinking for a couple hours.

Well, in my case, it's because Rawhide was actually being critical of Grimm Eclipse, and I was under the inpression that that sort of thing was supposed to go in the criticism thread.

Reread Rawhide's post. Then read the last few posts of the other thread.

I don't think you're being completely honest with us.

[Lethologica]

Reread Rawhide's post. Then read the last few posts of the other thread.

I don't think you're being completely honest with us.

I don't know what the last few posts of the other thread have to do with DrFaust's misapplication of the "show criticism" criterion to criticism of the game, or how you determined that said misapplication was dishonest.

[DoctorFaust]

I don't know what the last few posts of the other thread have to do with DrFaust's misapplication of the "show criticism" criterion to criticism of the game, or how you determined that said misapplication was dishonest.

Oh, is it supposed to be show criticism only? Sorry, I guess I've been laboring under the misapprehension that it was for criticism of everything related to RWBY, not just the show.

[Grinner]

I don't know what the last few posts of the other thread have to do with DrFaust's misapplication of the "show criticism" criterion to criticism of the game, or how you determined that said misapplication was dishonest.

It's not the particular RWBY product being criticized that's the issue, I think. It's more the type and intensity of discussion that's being directed at it that's the issue. Compared to the other thread, what's been said about Grimm Eclipse is entirely innocuous.

Keeping this and the ire presently being directed at Rawhide in mind, I'm willing to speculate that DrFaust is exercising a chip on his shoulder via pedanticism. If you disagree with that appraisal, you're entitled to that opinion, but I'll stand by mine.

Personally, I'm happy about this change of policy. It was impossible to pleasantly discuss the show in the previous threads.

[LaZodiac]

Oh, is it supposed to be show criticism only? Sorry, I guess I've been laboring under the misapprehension that it was for criticism of everything related to RWBY, not just the show.

Obstensibly that's what it's supposed to be, everything related to RWBY.

Anyway, anyone have links to them talking about the game yet?

[Grinner]

Anyway, anyone have links to them talking about the game yet?

I've got a link to the trailer, if that's what you mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSSm...T8IGK&index=51

Oooh. The second episode just hit YouTube. Exciting.

[LaZodiac]

I've got a link to the trailer, if that's what you mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSSm...T8IGK&index=51

Oooh. The second episode just hit YouTube. Exciting.

That's not what I mean no, but thanks for try.

Yup! I wonder how people will react to some of the stuff that happens in the episode.

Also for what it's worth, I don't think it was impossible to discuss the show pleasantly before the thread split.

[DoctorFaust]

It's not the particular RWBY product being criticized that's the issue, I think. It's more the type and intensity of discussion that's being directed at it that's the issue. Compared to the other thread, what's been said about Grimm Eclipse is entirely innocuous.

Keeping this and the ire presently being directed at Rawhide in mind, I'm willing to speculate that DrFaust is exercising a chip on his shoulder via pedanticism. If you disagree with that appraisal, you're entitled to that opinion, but I'll stand by mine.

Hey, as the guy you're talking about, I just answered the question of "Is my opinion objectively wrong," in the post above yours for you.

And I am now going to quote for you Rawhide's official, representing this forum, admin text statement concerning what goes in what thread (I'm assuming that it's okay to use redtext, since it was used in the original post, which I'm unfortunately unable to quote).

The other thread is for discussing ... what parts you felt were done poorly, while this thread is for discussing everything else...

Now, I don't know about you, but this sounds like someone expressing an opinion that something was done poorly.

I saw a bit of it too, and I didn't really like what I saw myself, didn't seem like my kind of game. It's in the early stages yet, but if it plays exactly like it played in their demonstration, I'm not sure it'd keep my interest for long.

And yes, his comment wasn't about the show, but as I said, I thought that the thread for negative/critical thoughts, and not just positive comments, was for everything RWBY related and not just RWBY itself.

[Grinner]

Hey, as the guy you're talking about, I just answered the question of "Is my opinion objectively wrong," in the post above yours for you.

And I am now going to quote for you Rawhide's official, representing this forum, admin text statement concerning what goes in what thread (I'm assuming that it's okay to use redtext, since it was used in the original post, which I'm unfortunately unable to quote).

Now, I don't know about you, but this sounds like someone expressing an opinion that something was done poorly.

And yes, his comment wasn't about the show, but as I said, I thought that the thread for negative/critical thoughts, and not just positive comments, was for everything RWBY related and not just RWBY itself.

Listen, I don't know you. If I've misjudged your intentions, then I apologize.

That said, I think we must acknowledge that there's a vast gulf in degree between someone expressing disinterest in a game and someone saying "There is no need to insult racists by comparing them to Weiss".

[Rawhide]

The Hairy Modfather:

DoctorFaust: If you're going to intentionally misquote me in an attempt to both rules lawyer and vigilante moderate, you will be asked not to post in any RWBY related thread.

If you had included the entire paragraph, you would have included this sentence:

Much of the talk has bordered on/crossed into talking about how much people thought that the show (or aspects of the show) "sucked", or how they thought it should be changed.

Which clearly indicates that I was talking about the show. You will also note that in that same paragraph that I specifically mentioned that not all negative opinions were deemed to belong in the rewrite thread.

You might also have considered including the more recent and more authoritive source on the first page of this thread:

If what you're doing is making a complaint about the creators of the show/some aspect about how the show was created or should have been created, then it's deemed to be part of the rewrite thread, even if you personally are not rewriting it. Pretty much everything else remains here.

[Kantaki]

Oh, is it supposed to be show criticism only? Sorry, I guess I've been laboring under the misapprehension that it was for criticism of everything related to RWBY, not just the show.

I don't think saying something like „I don't think this will be my kind of game” really counts as criticism for the purpose of the thread split. I would hesistate to call it criticism at all.

Anyway, no episode this week?
Oh, well one more week until we meet Winter. And see her and Qrow in action if I interpret the preview and the V3-trailer right. I want to know what triggers this fight.

Spoiler: V3 Trailer, C3 Preview, Speculation

Show

I think Qrow suspects Winter/ the Schnees of working with/ being the guys behind the current trouble.
From Winters comment about cutting his tongue off he either accuses her to her face or finds some other way to provoke her. Or they are just flirting.

Until we get the third chapter I’m going to read thread(s), rewatch RWBY and enjoy the amazing fights.

[DoctorFaust]

The Hairy Modfather:

DoctorFaust: If you're going to intentionally misquote me in an attempt to both rules lawyer and vigilante moderate, you will be asked not to post in any RWBY related thread.

If you had included the entire paragraph, you would have included this sentence:

Which clearly indicates that I was talking about the show. You will also note that in that same paragraph that I specifically mentioned that not all negative opinions were deemed to belong in the rewrite thread.

You might also have considered including the more recent and more authoritive source on the first page of this thread:

My apologies if what I've been doing would be considered vigilante moderating, but as I've stated at least twice now, the part about the other thread being only about the show only was a simple misunderstanding and bad memory on my part, and for that I do apologize. And if not all negativity belongs in the negativity thread, what's the border for it belonging there? I mean, obviously, complaints are the border, but, since you're the one that gets to decide what goes where, what exactly would be the minimum that you would call a complaint? I don't like what I saw, x looks bad, x is bad, or what?

Listen, I don't know you. If I've misjudged your intentions, then I apologize.

Alright. And I'm sorry about the tone of my reply to you. It was combative, rude, and talking down to you, and I shouldn't have done that.

[Rawhide]

My apologies if what I've been doing would be considered vigilante moderating, but as I've stated at least twice now, the part about the other thread being only about the show only was a simple misunderstanding and bad memory on my part, and for that I do apologize. And if not all negativity belongs in the negativity thread, what's the border for it belonging there? I mean, obviously, complaints are the border, but, since you're the one that gets to decide what goes where, what exactly would be the minimum that you would call a complaint? I don't like what I saw, x looks bad, x is bad, or what?

If what you're doing is making a complaint about the creators of the show/some aspect about how the show was created or should have been created, then it's deemed to be part of the rewrite thread, even if you personally are not rewriting it. Pretty much everything else remains here.

This means that you're more than welcome to state here, for example, that you don't like Character Y ever since they stole Ruby's cookies if it's about the character and not a complaint about the writing of the character, cookie theft scene/etc. The latter goes in the rewrite thread.

There's bound to be a bit of uncertainty, and a small bit of overlap, but please just do your best. If everyone tries to make an effort, rather than digging their heels in, we can make this work so much more smoothly. This requires a community effort, and the exact line of what goes where may be adjusted based on community feedback and observing what works and what doesn't.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Where's the trailer? I'ts not in the RWBY videos.

[Rawhide]

Where's the trailer? I'ts not in the RWBY videos.

I'd like to know too. It was in the Extra Life livestream, but I can't find it on Rooster Teeth's site or Rooster Teeth's YouTube page.

[Kantaki]

Where's the trailer? I'ts not in the RWBY videos.

I'd like to know too. It was in the Extra Life livestream, but I can't find it on Rooster Teeth's site or Rooster Teeth's YouTube page.

The preview for the next episode? With the Qrow/Winter fight?
It should be on the Wiki somewhere. At least thats where I found it.

[Grinner]

That's not what I mean no, but thanks for try.

Is this what you were talking about?

[LaZodiac]

Is this what you were talking about?

Yeah. I'll watch it later, but thanks.

[Rawhide]

Is this what you were talking about?

Thank you for that link. From this, and other information we already know, I think we can piece together how this is game is going to work a bit better now. It seems that this isn't going to be one big long story, but more like a series of vignettes which they expect you to play over and over (due to not actually having all that much story content overall). In the video you linked, they have used the example of "Left 4 Dead" as to how that vignette style system works. I'm guessing that each time you start a vignette (for lack of a better word), all of your skills also start at zero, which would explain how a "MOBA-like leveling system" would work. From what I saw, the "MOBA-like leveling system" does indeed work somewhat similar to League of Legends or DotA. If you've never played LoL or DotA, think of the Diablo 2 skill tree, but dramatically cut down to three levels instead of six (and resetting every time you play).

P.S. Wow, they were really awkward on camera...

[LaZodiac]

Thank you for that link. From this, and other information we already know, I think we can piece together how this is game is going to work a bit better now. It seems that this isn't going to be one big long story, but more like a series of vignettes which they expect you to play over and over (due to not actually having all that much story content overall). In the video you linked, they have used the example of "Left 4 Dead" as to how that vignette style system works. I'm guessing that each time you start a vignette (for lack of a better word), all of your skills also start at zero, which would explain how a "MOBA-like leveling system" would work. From what I saw, the "MOBA-like leveling system" does indeed work somewhat similar to League of Legends or DotA. If you've never played LoL or DotA, think of the Diablo 2 skill tree, but dramatically cut down to three levels instead of six (and resetting every time you play).

P.S. Wow, they were really awkward on camera...

As someone who basically lives and breathes beat em ups...that sounds awful. I'm all for trying new ideas but this is not a good one.

[Rawhide]

As someone who basically lives and breathes beat em ups...that sounds awful. I'm all for trying new ideas but this is not a good one.

It's not sounding or looking all that great to me either, and my excitement to play it has been considerably lowered, but let's give them a chance to prove that it'll work well closer to the release date. Who knows, maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised.

I mean, I did play the exact same levels of Killing Floor over and over again because their version of the (six person) coop model against waves of enemies worked.

[LaZodiac]

It's not sounding or looking all that great to me either, and my excitement to play it has been considerably lowered, but let's give them a chance to prove that it'll work well closer to the release date. Who knows, maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised.

I mean, I did play the exact same levels of Killing Floor over and over again because their version of the (six person) coop model against waves of enemies worked.

It's not the levels I'm talking about, it's the anti progression. Beat em ups are all about getting stronger. A beat em up were you're constantly set back to zero is...ridiculous.

Though yes I will wait to play it, though I have nooo intention of actually buying it myself

[Rawhide]

It's not the levels I'm talking about, it's the anti progression. Beat em ups are all about getting stronger. A beat em up were you're constantly set back to zero is...ridiculous.

Well, to be fair, if my assumption of how this is going to work is correct (and to be clear, this is all speculation and could be well and truly wrong), you're not reset back to zero until you complete the vignette. You progress through the areas of the vignette, win, call out "good game guys" to your team mates (or boast about sleeping with their mother if you're playing with randoms online), then everyone decides they want to play the vignette again (or switch to another) and when you start again, your skills also start again.

[LaZodiac]

Well, to be fair, if my assumption of how this is going to work is correct (and to be clear, this is all speculation and could be well and truly wrong), you're not reset back to zero until you complete the vignette. You progress through the areas of the vignette, win, call out "good game guys" to your team mates (or boast about sleeping with their mother if you're playing with randoms online), then everyone decides they want to play the vignette again (or switch to another) and when you start again, your skills also start again.

That's what I mean though. That type of gameplay just doesn't fit beat em ups. How are you supposed to master some of the higher tier techs if you only get them for a little bit. How are you supposed to feel progression? Since you're always going to start at level 1 the game will always throw the same enemies at you.

Like I said, I will give it a chance, but right now the gameplay just sounds like it will feel very boring. This works for an FPS like Left 4 Dead, or for MOBAs like League where it's a slow, tactical game. But in Beat em up games are different. Imagine if in Devil May Cry, you had to relearn all your abilities every chapter.

[Swaoeaeieu]

What i heard them say in the stream was indeed that you level up in each mini campaign (the word rawhide uses is new to me so ill say it my way). But they couldnt say how long each campaign would take. They did say the leveling is tied to your combo counter (i think). So a skilled played might get there combo going early on and get the high level skills sooner.

I now the trailer says it will introduce new enemies. But i am still pretty sure it will just be waves upon waves of the same old grimm. wich would make the game a bit borin after a short while.

Actually, it really reminds me of the Legend of Korra game i got in the summersale. Played through it in a day, same enemies with the same attacks. you get some new stuff but it gets old very quick.

I will play it of course because RWBY. But i dont expect a life changing game. Just a fun little thing to play around with from time to time. What i really hope though is they keep updating it after release, putting more characters in as they appear in the show.

It would be Roosterteeths first in house game. So it would be nice to see them continue working on it if it sells good enough, and knowing the communitie, it will sell plenty regardless of quality.

So those are some of my thoughts, suprising how much i can type when i should be working...