How Hel will lose

[FollowerofBanjo]

Ok this is how i imaging Hel's grand plan will fail

Whats going to happen is either

1. (the obvious theory) Belkar is going to come back and kill Durkon as an undead

2. Roy is going to lose and the demi-gods will come out to vote and the vote's will be in favor of desroying the world by 1 vote then Elan will show up saying wait theirs one vote left to count (like Durkin did) then pulling out his "demi-god" Banjo and Banjo will vote no so the vote is a tie then they'll all be like what happens now then an ork will show up and be like wait theirs one vote left to count and he will pull out giggles (banjos brother from comic 561) and he will also vote no saving the world at least that's what i want to happen.

[Lord Stoneheart]

Ok this is how i imaging Hel's grand plan will fail

Whats going to happen is either

1. (the obvious theory) Belkar is going to come back and kill Durkon as an undead

2. Roy is going to lose and the demi-gods will come out to vote and the vote's will be in favor of desroying the world by 1 vote then Elan will show up saying wait theirs one vote left to count (like Durkin did) then pulling out his "demi-god" Banjo and Banjo will vote no so the vote is a tie then they'll all be like what happens now then an ork will show up and be like wait theirs one vote left to count and he will pull out giggles (banjos brother from comic 561) and he will also vote no saving the world at least that's what i want to happen.

1. So what type of undead will Belkar be? And what type of (not so) friendly necromancer is going to find his body out in the middle of nowhere to make him into an undead? (Even assuming that he's dead right now. Which he probably isn't. I mean the main reason Roy died because of a fall was because he took a Meteor Swarm to the face right before).

2. Part of me is just really exasperated by this theory popping up again and again. Normally I would just point out that Banjo and Giggles are not part of the Northern Pantheon (Odin never got the chance to extend his author to Banjo, and Giggles is worshiped by a tribe of Orcs out on an island that's probably a part of the Southern Pantheon's domain). But another part of me feels I should just come up with my own theories.

My theory? A long forgotten Godsmoot rule leads to a tiebreaker that involves a pie eating contest between the High Priest of Loki and the High Priest of Hel. Lurky loses because vampires hate pie.

[WindStruck]

Then Belkar is summoned as the master chef to bake these pies. Of course he cheats and loads the pies with garlic!

[Jasdoif]

Then Belkar is summoned as the master chef to bake these pies. Of course he cheats and loads the pies with garlic!

I counter the pie theory with dumplings, accompanied with sriracha sauce (which has garlic as one of its ingredients).


Deliciousness aside, the existence of a "next phase" Roy could interfere with suggests Hel's grand plan includes a contingency if the vote doesn't go her way...assuming it wasn't the primary plan in the first place, with winning the vote being an unexpected but possible first shot at victory.

[Vinyadan]

Roy is going to tie his sword to one leg of his pants, take the other one in his hands and start spinning wildly. Unless he's wearing living pants, it should work.

[Quartz]

1. So what type of undead will Belkar be?

Revenant or Risen Martyr, neither of which require a necromancer's assistance.

[Quild]

Deliciousness aside, the existence of a "next phase" Roy could interfere with suggests Hel's grand plan includes a contingency if the vote doesn't go her way...assuming it wasn't the primary plan in the first place, with winning the vote being an unexpected but possible first shot at victory.

I'm willing to bet on the "next phase" being the destruction of the last gate so the gods have no choice than unmake the world. And of course, Roy could interfere on this if he defeats Team Edward Vampires.

I still think that what HPoH wanted with Durkon's memory about his father, was to have some clues about the gate location (powerful monster spotted). He speaks about idle curiosity and recently showed some interest into morbid details about Eric, but still.

Now what would Hel think her plan could fail? No backsies, no going out of the room and she seems sure about what demigods would vote.

[brian 333]

Roy should have invested in a pair of Sword Chucks.

[Malfarian]

How did Belkar get the Azure mark removed? might it animate him if he dies? I'm tired sorry for barely coherent speech.

[Fable Wright]

How did Belkar get the Azure mark removed? might it animate him if he dies? I'm tired sorry for barely coherent speech.

It got removed way back when, after it was triggered. The priest of Loki knew the password to remove it, and then Belkar was back at full strength to wipe the floor with the thieves' guild.

[paddyfool]

Alternative suggestions:

- Roy uses Knowledge (Architecture) again to hit Durkula w falling debris / take the ground out from under him.

- Either Belkar or Mr Scruffy drops a chandelier on Durkula

- The surviving priests of Earth get clued up on Durkula's murders and take revenge somehow.

- One of the other bodyguards "accidentally" drops a holy hand grenade for Roy to use (OK, I'm kind of reaching now)

- Hel's support among the demigods isn't actually as extensive as she's hoped.

[Vinyadan]

The Stone Creed probably knows enough about rocks and mines to avoid this, but...

there is a thing called rock burst. Rock in the ground stays in place because of the pressure of stuff around and above it. But if you take the weight above it away, pressure will disappear on one side, and it is possible that the rock may be squeezed on the other sides and not be able to keep together any more. The result is the rock exploding.

It is ultra-contrived and I think any Gothic cathedral will survive losing a single pillar, but, in theory, the mountain from which the building was raised could be ready to internally explode and cause a partial collapse of the building.

Man would that be some PR for the Stoners.

[FriendComputer]

There is another long shot that nobody seems to be really talking about.... the Linear Guild.

More specifically, the evil trio of gods manipulating them into engendering wanton chaos. If the world ends, yes, you get a bunch of souls... but there is no chaos, which is what they thrive on.

In other words, they may have a vested interest in the world not ending in an instant. Since they do have mortal agents, there's always a chance they may be able to influence events in some unforseen way.

[Kantaki]

There is another long shot that nobody seems to be really talking about.... the Linear Guild.

More specifically, the evil trio of gods manipulating them into engendering wanton chaos. If the world ends, yes, you get a bunch of souls... but there is no chaos, which is what they thrive on.

In other words, they may have a vested interest in the world not ending in an instant. Since they do have mortal agents, there's always a chance they may be able to influence events in some unforseen way.

Gods? The Linear Guild didn't work for any god. Well, sure, Hilgya was a cleric of Hel, but otherwise?
The IFCC are demons (Well, one demon, a devil and a daemon), the difference is small, but important.

That aside they certainly might have a interest in the continued existence of the world. Unfortunatly it seems unlikely that they have anyone near the Godsmoot, making their interference unlikely.

Roy doing something clever desperate with the temple, Durkula's staff and/or his sword or Durkon being able to overcome the vampire seems more likely.

I hope that something Durkula already did will lead to his downfall. It would be great if the dead Stone-guys ruin Hel's plan somehow.

[Souhiro]

Belkar will come back, fully transformed into A GOD. A Sexy Shoeless god of war.
He will pass his Spell Resistance throw....

[schmunzel]

... then Elan will show up saying wait theirs one vote left to count (like Durkin did) then pulling out his "demi-god" Banjo and Banjo will vote no so the vote is a tie then they'll all be like what happens now then an ork will show up and be like wait theirs one vote left to count and he will pull out giggles (banjos brother from comic 561) and he will also vote no saving the world at least that's what i want to happen.

Lets just say it would be the ultimative humiliation for hel to have her plan unmade by a puppet. :)
Other than that there is not an awful lot speaking for this theory :(



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[137beth]

Well, sure, Hilgya was a cleric of Hel, but otherwise?

You mean Loki? There are no living clerics of Hel in the OOTS world.

[FriendComputer]

Gods? The Linear Guild didn't work for any god. Well, sure, Hilgya was a cleric of Hel, but otherwise?
The IFCC are demons (Well, one demon, a devil and a daemon), the difference is small, but important.

That aside they certainly might have a interest in the continued existence of the world. Unfortunatly it seems unlikely that they have anyone near the Godsmoot, making their interference unlikely.

Roy doing something clever desperate with the temple, Durkula's staff and/or his sword or Durkon being able to overcome the vampire seems more likely.

I hope that something Durkula already did will lead to his downfall. It would be great if the dead Stone-guys ruin Hel's plan somehow.

Yeah...I should've said "powers" not gods.

That said, we already know how to nullify a gods vote... kill the HP speaking for them. Also, we don't know exactly where the Linear Guild is, or what they are doing. They are puppets to the powers, after all, and who knows what actions they may try to take through their mortal servants.

Bad guys being big darned heroes by accident would be humorous.

But, it is a far fetched idea. Just not outside the realm of possibility.

[Jornophelanthas]

Here's another theory about how Hel will lose:

There are several high priests in the room with YES-votes, not just quasi-Durkon. Several of them could have changed their minds about the vote, but are unable to change it.

Still, if one of them were to die, there would no longer be a tie.

The possible candidates are:
- High Priest of Heimdall - it was stated by Hel's Proxy that Heimdall's plan did not take into account the massive advantage Hel would gain, so a YES-vote would no longer be in Heimdall's best interest
- High Priest of Tyr - whose reasoning behind the YES-vote was that nobody should gain an advantage over the Northern Pantheon. While Hel is technically a part of that pantheon, I doubt Tyr would want Hel to gain such a large advantage over all the other Northern gods.

How could they die, given the rules of the moot? They could commit suicide, which would not be too out of place for the high priests of the gods of The Watch and of War, respectively.

One other honorable mention:
Veldrina delivered the vote of the Western and Elven Pantheons, which voted YES as well. If she were to die, the entire western vote would become invalid. This would make the northern vote mostly pointless: even if the final northern vote after the tiebreak is a YES, the outcome of the entire moot is a tie, with no known rules to further break it.
Perhaps then another tiebreaker vote is required from a divine power that is not part of any pantheon - like the Creed of the Stone.
And they probably don't like Vampire-Durkon...

Finally, I think it highly unlikely that Veldrina would commit suicide. What would be slightly more likely is for Wrecan to kill her - because there are no restrictions on bodyguards attacking their own priest. His pragmatism might lead him to choose the fate of the world over the fate of his charge.

[Kantaki]

Here's another theory about how Hel will lose:

There are several high priests in the room with YES-votes, not just quasi-Durkon. Several of them could have changed their minds about the vote, but are unable to change it.

Still, if one of them were to die, there would no longer be a tie.

The possible candidates are:
- High Priest of Heimdall - it was stated by Hel's Proxy that Heimdall's plan did not take into account the massive advantage Hel would gain, so a YES-vote would no longer be in Heimdall's best interest
- High Priest of Tyr - whose reasoning behind the YES-vote was that nobody should gain an advantage over the Northern Pantheon. While Hel is technically a part of that pantheon, I doubt Tyr would want Hel to gain such a large advantage over all the other Northern gods.

How could they die, given the rules of the moot? They could commit suicide, which would not be too out of place for the high priests of the gods of The Watch and of War, respectively.

One other honorable mention:
Veldrina delivered the vote of the Western and Elven Pantheons, which voted YES as well. If she were to die, the entire western vote would become invalid. This would make the northern vote mostly pointless: even if the final northern vote after the tiebreak is a YES, the outcome of the entire moot is a tie, with no known rules to further break it.
Perhaps then another tiebreaker vote is required from a divine power that is not part of any pantheon - like the Creed of the Stone.
And they probably don't like Vampire-Durkon...

Finally, I think it highly unlikely that Veldrina would commit suicide. What would be slightly more likely is for Wrecan to kill her - because there are no restrictions on bodyguards attacking their own priest. His pragmatism might lead him to choose the fate of the world over the fate of his charge.

The Giant already said that he won't present suicide as a viable solution.
That aside all Veldrina did was announcing the results of the Western Godsmoot. She is just a messenger, her death has as no influence on the vote itself.

I don't think this will be resolved by the death of a high priest (not counting Durkula), but by the conflict between Roy, Durkon and the HPoH or maybe the votes of the demi-gods.

[Vinyadan]

I don't think shooting the pianist would change much, because the music he plays has already been written by someone else, while the HP seem to accept the will of their gods, which ties them to the rules their gods have accepted: no backsies.
However, the other bodyguards could decide to assault their priest. I wonder if some of the priests are on the lookout.