Mythos Homebrew Discussion III: Grievous Imbalance Is A Feature

[Temotei]

Remember that all Mythos classes have full BAB: regardless of special abilities, their first skill is hitting stuff.

Not all of them--some of the ones by people other than Xefas aren't full BAB to signify that hitting isn't a first resort for those classes or because it's just not necessary.

[Allnightmask]

I can't be bothered to dig through all the threads but I remember Xefas saying not all mythos class are full BAB it's just what he has written so far requires it for their roles.
Anakitos is the idea of the unstoppable protagonist, the Bellator is Fighter+, Jagannatha is the hate engine, Olethrofex is the angel of death or the alpha zombie, Syntrofos is born of the first thing to cause death via violence and continues that tradition, and the Teramach is pretty much all melee all the time. It is only my mental block with monks that makes the Kothodos having full attack bonuses seem weird.
Write what seems right but don't think all mythos classes need full BAB and all good saves, it's not a requirement.

[DracoDei]

Seconded. My work in progress (which I may be getting a chance to playtest on these forums soonish!) has POOR BAB although some of their options improve that under very specific circumstances (AoOs, Disarm/Sunder, isolated from the rest of the party.

[Fizban]

The point still stands for all of them that do: if you're lost in a pile of mythos that don't seem to do anything on their own, check the BAB because it's probably supposed to be hitting things.

[Zarthrax]

Had a vague idea for a Mythos Prestige Class, playing off of the Mythic Vestige. Figured I'd consult the sages before I try to narrow it down.

Ideal Entry Point- Mythos Class 4/Binder 1 with Improved Binding, possess Mythic Vestige feat.

Progression- halves acquisition rate of Mythos and Excellencies, maintains progression for intensity of Mythos (so you can still get higher level ones, just not nearly as many), progresses Spirit Binding as a Binder.

First Vestige Bound every day must be 'yourself'. If 'you' possess Special Requirements for binding, you must meet them. Ignore Special Requirements does nothing here.

Ideal Capstone- You and DM create a second Vestige of yourself of higher level, you may bind either the original or the higher level one for free daily. Frees up your (probable) two slots for Binding shenanigans.


Thoughts?

[khadgar567]

Had a vague idea for a Mythos Prestige Class, playing off of the Mythic Vestige. Figured I'd consult the sages before I try to narrow it down.

Ideal Entry Point- Mythos Class 4/Binder 1 with Improved Binding, possess Mythic Vestige feat.

Progression- halves acquisition rate of Mythos and Excellencies, maintains progression for intensity of Mythos (so you can still get higher level ones, just not nearly as many), progresses Spirit Binding as a Binder.

First Vestige Bound every day must be 'yourself'. If 'you' possess Special Requirements for binding, you must meet them. Ignore Special Requirements does nothing here.

Ideal Capstone- You and DM create a second Vestige of yourself of higher level, you may bind either the original or the higher level one for free daily. Frees up your (probable) two slots for Binding shenanigans.


Thoughts?

you gotta need solid vestige making mythoses and watch out for warlock dip with custom vestige shenanigans( basicly op version of naberious so more hell fire warlock damage

[Zarthrax]

you gotta need solid vestige making mythoses and watch out for warlock dip with custom vestige shenanigans( basicly op version of naberious so more hell fire warlock damage

.........

I'm certain this says something, I'm just not sure what.

[Temotei]

.........

I'm certain this says something, I'm just not sure what.

Basically, make sure the vestiges that can be made are good, but not silly OP, I think is the gist.

[Zarthrax]

Basically, make sure the vestiges that can be made are good, but not silly OP, I think is the gist.

Ah, much clearer.

I think what I would do is provide a couple of examples of such. Like the character I'm making the class for is basically Aym, so making an upgraded version of her should be easy. As mentioned though, the ultimate arbiter of said created vestige is whatever DM you submit it to.

[Lanth Sor]

New Feat: The Sleeping Mountain Legacy
Prerequisite: One Mythos; Humanoid, Giant, or Monstrous Humanoid type; Must have at least one of the following traits be a permanent aspect of you: Large or larger size, have the Powerful Build racial ability, or have giant blood within you.
Benefit: Choose one Mythos-granting class that you have levels in. You may treat the following Mythos as if they belonged to that class. Your maximum hit points increase by 1 for every [Epic] feat, and every feat that references a "Grapple" or the act of "Grappling" in its benefits (excluding this one), that you possess. Note that unless you are actually of an Epic level (21 or higher), there will be almost no way that you can gain more [Epic] feats except from the following Mythos.

If you somehow lose this feat, or no longer qualify for it, you cease to gain the benefits of the granted Mythos until you regain this feat or qualify for it once more.

So do you not qualify if you get powerful build form a non race source?

[nikkoli]

New Feat: The Sleeping Mountain Legacy
Prerequisite: One Mythos; Humanoid, Giant, or Monstrous Humanoid type; Must have at least one of the following traits be a permanent aspect of you: Large or larger size, have the Powerful Build racial ability, or have giant blood within you.
Benefit: Choose one Mythos-granting class that you have levels in. You may treat the following Mythos as if they belonged to that class. Your maximum hit points increase by 1 for every [Epic] feat, and every feat that references a "Grapple" or the act of "Grappling" in its benefits (excluding this one), that you possess. Note that unless you are actually of an Epic level (21 or higher), there will be almost no way that you can gain more [Epic] feats except from the following Mythos.

If you somehow lose this feat, or no longer qualify for it, you cease to gain the benefits of the granted Mythos until you regain this feat or qualify for it once more.

So do you not qualify if you get powerful build form a non race source?

It specifies Powerful build racial ability, not from another source. Granted in stock racial is the only way to get it, and both the races that get (goliath and half giant) have 2 of the prerequisites for the feat covered. But in the wild world of homebrew there are a number of ways to get it outside of race.

[Temotei]

There's Jotunbrud from Races of Faerun. That would probably qualify you for "have giant blood within you" as well. It doesn't technically give you all of powerful build's benefits, but still. Some of them.

[Lanth Sor]

I'm working on an idea for the mage where you use essentia to gain access to spells in a way similar to investing in the incarnum feats works. You would invest essentia equal to the spells level to gain access. The mythos would be similar to the bellator discipline mythos in It would grant access to spell subtype each time taken(cold, healing, compulsion). And you couldn't pick a spell if you don't have all the subtypes. The biggest concern is I'd like to make them at will eventually but I'm struggling with the lower end.

[Kaje]

It looks like someone was in the process of transferring all of this to a Mythos Compendium Wiki, but the project seems to have died. If that is a thing people people are interested in, I'd be willing to start it up again.

[Jakman217]

It looks like someone was in the process of transferring all of this to a Mythos Compendium Wiki, but the project seems to have died. If that is a thing people people are interested in, I'd be willing to start it up again.

That would've been I but you may take up the banner. I stopped due to a lack of support from the rest of the creators, distractions coming up, and little interest from people willing to help. You can go ahead and start updating if you want.

[nikkoli]

Can you further enhance weapon formed from Element-Forged Geomach Arsenal, such as adding weapon properties to it? This question is posed by the omphalion belletor player in my game. He is looking for getting the weapon enchanted by someone else, since he didn't take the belletor crafting mythos, and I'm not letting them use starting gold to have ALL OF THE MYTHOS at lvl 13.

[Vauron]

The best option is to let your player make use of whatever means that the Bellator has to get enchantments on their weapons. Lets see.... Huh, the Bellator only has a mythos for templates. Well, as a start you should probably let them make EFGA weapons with templates.

As to enchantments, while I never posted it, as I was never really happy with how it turned out, but I did make a Kathados mythos for adding weapon enchantments unarmed strikes, natural weapons, and stuff made by Element-Forged Geomach Arsenal. I'll post what I have and offer a few suggestions on adapting it to the Bellator.

Fantastic Mythos:
Apeiron Tellus Largess

Spoiler

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Apeiron Tellus Largess
Prerequisite: Elemental-Fisted Pugilist Style or Element-Forged Geomach Arsenal
The Kathados gains a pool of bonus points that can be used to grant special abilities from the list below to their natural weapons, unarmed attacks, and weapons created through a Kathados mythos. The size of your pool is equal to 1/5 your BAB. The Kathados can change which special abilities are granted by this mythos with a full round action. Weapons created by a Kathados mythos can have the abilities from the mythos applied as part of the action of creating the weapon. Weapon abilities from this mythos can only be put on weapons that are appropriate for the ability. You couldn't have a Keen Warhammer, for instance.
+1

Spoiler

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Acidic Burst
Chargebreaker
Charging
Corrosive
Defending
Distance
Flaming
Frost
Ghost Touch
Impact
Keen
Maiming
Merciful
Mighty Cleaving
Precise
Seeking
Shock
Thundering
Wounding

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Spoiler

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Banishing
Collision
Disruption
Flaming Burst
Force
Icy Burst
Impedance
Parrying
Shocking Burst

+3
Speed
+4
Brilliant Energy

First, as far as converting it to the Bellator is concerned, you may wish to alter the list of abilities it can grant. I mostly gave the Kathados abilities that were elemental or shape based and did not have uses/day, which you may not feel fits with an Omphalion that can only make weapons from one element. Additionally, if they picked up a Favored Enemy somehow, Bane (that Favored Enemy) may be appropriate.

Second, I have a bad nose for balance. If you think this overpowered than consider only giving a handle of abilities initially and requiring your player to get others through the same means he'd need to use to get a template.

[Theseventh]

So if I might offer up this Fantastic tier Mythos for The Archikos for consideration.

Spoiler: Words that Warp the World

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Words that Warp the World
Prerequisite: In the Ring I Dance, In the Ring You Fall: Henge of the Ancients
[Pristine]

Everyone knows the words of the Fey hold power. Power over the minds of men, and power over the wit's of women. Few people consider however the power they hold over the wonders of the world.

When standing within your ring that is currently benefiting from the Henge of the Ancients augmentations you may utilize the True Speak skill with an amount of pseudo ranks equal to your HD-3, and may substitute Cha for Int for the purpose of the skill. Your effective Truenamer level is equal to your Mythos level.

Note: While Truenaming would indeed benefit from the abilities of Henge of the Ancients, I don't believe any incantations, or TS 'spells' in general gain or lose anything based on Truenamer level, aside from how high you can augment it. It's biggest cap is your actually ability to raise the DC and make the check so that is based on your skill points.

Basic
The First Words: You learn a single first level Incantation. This manifestation can be taken 3 times.


Advanced
The Second Words: You learn a single second level Incantation. This manifestation can be taken 3 times.

What do people think? If this is well recieved I will make a continuation of the branch for the higher tier Mythos.
Future plans include Recitations that Rewrite Reality and Vocals that Violate the Vital. For recitations and Utterances respectively. I like alliterations.

[Lanth Sor]

So if I might offer up this Fantastic tier Mythos for The Archikos for consideration.

Spoiler: Words that Warp the World

Show

Words that Warp the World
Prerequisite: In the Ring I Dance, In the Ring You Fall: Henge of the Ancients
[Pristine]

Everyone knows the words of the Fey hold power. Power over the minds of men, and power over the wit's of women. Few people consider however the power they hold over the wonders of the world.

When standing within your ring that is currently benefiting from the Henge of the Ancients augmentations you may utilize the True Speak skill with an amount of pseudo ranks equal to your HD-3, and may substitute Cha for Int for the purpose of the skill. Your effective Truenamer level is equal to your Mythos level.

Note: While Truenaming would indeed benefit from the abilities of Henge of the Ancients, I don't believe any incantations, or TS 'spells' in general gain or lose anything based on Truenamer level, aside from how high you can augment it. It's biggest cap is your actually ability to raise the DC and make the check so that is based on your skill points.

Basic
The First Words: You learn a single first level Incantation. This manifestation can be taken 3 times.


Advanced
The Second Words: You learn a single second level Incantation. This manifestation can be taken 3 times.

What do people think? If this is well recieved I will make a continuation of the branch for the higher tier Mythos.
Future plans include Recitations that Rewrite Reality and Vocals that Violate the Vital. For recitations and Utterances respectively. I like alliterations.

I'll review it but seems solid. I initially thought you found someone that had made UA incantations in a viable format.

Also I'm Making a thing. It suposes to be Mythic Magic.

[roko10]

It's probably good to mention that the Proidos is updating again.

[Theseventh]

It's probably good to mention that the Proidos is updating again.

Cool what can we expect to see in the new update?



On an unrelated note, here is another fantastic tier Archikos Mythos. Once I get a third one down I will repost them in the actual Archikos thread for easier viewing. Or you can just swipe them up and put them right into the mythos list Lanth.

Spoiler: Recitations that Rewrite Reality

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Recitations that Rewrite Reality
Prerequisite: In the Ring I Dance, In the Ring You Fall: Henge of the Ancients
[Pristine]

What is in a name? Would a rose by any other name smell just as sweet? Not if that rose chose to rewrite it's name with the power it held.

When standing within your ring that is currently benefiting from the Henge of the Ancients augmentations you may utilize the True Speak skill with an amount of pseudo ranks equal to your HD-3, and may substitute Cha for Int for the purpose of the skill. Your effective Truenamer level is equal to your Mythos level.

Note: Truenaming counts as a 'language dependent effect' for the purpose of the bonus supplied by Henge of the Ancients. This increase in caster level translates to an increase in Truenamer level.

Basic
My name is Anna: You learn a single first level Recitation.This manifestation may be taken twice.

Advanced
My name is Anna-Marie: You learn a single second level Recitation. This manifestation may be taken twice.

Stone Song: Your Stone Henge continues to sing your song after you have stopped. Once you no longer spend a swift action every round speaking your recitation, it continues to echo off of your stones for 1 minute a level. You are treated as if still under the effects of the recitation during this time. If you choose to start a new recitation then the echo stops.

So what do you think? The idea of the second advanced manifestation is to allow the Archikos a little mobility outside her circle. Setup a recitation and then free to wander for a bit. Remember though that you only actually have the truespeak skill inside the circle so if you want to start up a new recitation or renew the old one you have to come back to the circle. What do you think about the duration? Too long? Too short? I intend to bump it up with the next tier of these. So next level it will likely be 10 minutes a level, and eventually 1 hour a level.

Not sure what I want to do with these Truespeak mythos as an idea though. I can either tie all 3, and their later branches, together into a whole True Speak sub class thing inside the Archikos. Or I can make each of them mutually exclusive. So you got to focus on just recitations, vocalations or Utterances. If I do the former, I will make one of them the 'base' mythos. Likely this recitation mythos and have the others build off that. For the time being the above assumes each will be it's own thing, thus be tied to the Henge of the Ancients.

[Theseventh]

And because I was inspired, may as well put this out now.

Spoiler: Vocals that Violate the Vital

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Vocals that Violate the Vital
Prerequisite: In the Ring I Dance, In the Ring You Fall: Henge of the Ancients
[Pristine]

Never tell a Fey your name. With it they will weave treacherous magics over your mind and soul!

When standing within your ring that is currently benefiting from the Henge of the Ancients augmentations you may utilize the True Speak skill with an amount of pseudo ranks equal to your HD-3, and may substitute Cha for Int for the purpose of the skill. Your effective Truenamer level is equal to your Mythos level.

Your absolute limit is equal to (Cha mod x Archikos Level), and is calculated real time. So if you step in to the circle at level 5 with 20 Cha, you would have a limit of 25. If you then suffer 2 cha damage your limit is now 20. If instead of damage you instead had a buff cast on you raising your score to 24 your new limit would be 35. Targets that were under your limit at the time of casting but are no longer due to a change in cha score do not have the effect removed until it would normally end.

Note: Truenaming counts as a 'language dependent effect' for the purpose of the bonus supplied by Henge of the Ancients. This increase in caster level translates to an increase in Truenamer level.

Basic
It's not what you said, it's how you said it. You learn a single first level Utterance. This manifestation may be taken 3 times.

Advanced
Sticks and Stones You learn a single second level Utterance. This manifestation may be taken 3 times.

No name? No Problem!: When using an Utterance on a target within the area of your Circle, you may add your Cha score to your absolute limit.

There we go, the last of the Fantastic Tier True Speak stuff. I changed up how Absolute Limit is calculated a bit compared to a full on True Namer. Less static and prone to jumping around, but by being initially weaker it has the option of going up when buffed. Also included an advanced manifestation that ups your AL when a target is foolish enough to step into your circle. Remember though, a willing target can always be effected by an utterance if they want to be. Even when above your Absolute Limit! I suppose I probably should bother to do the busy work to include something in there for people who already have some Truenaming class levels and thus an AL. But frankly if you are dipping this deep into a mythos class for this, or this late in a Truespeak class because suddenly you found your calling I think you might need to reconsider your character.

[Kaje]

Even though nobody was receptive back when I suggested it, I still keep coming back to the idea of a Mythic Commoner, with representatives like Waldo, Jimmy Olsen, Doctor Who companions and every Martin Freeman character.

[PeacefulOak]

What I hear you saying is that you have an idea that is awesome in your mind. My advice to you is to start writing it down. Figure out it's mechanics and how it would function or feel. Then post it, with all of your energy and excitement, and inspire us to the glory of your concept.

[Kaje]

Honestly, I have no feel for mechanics or how to expand it into an entire Mythos class, but I envision it having (ex.)invisibility, buffing (simply because its allies are just better than it), and probably some great destiny it was never aware of.

[ThreadNecro5]

Honestly, I have no feel for mechanics or how to expand it into an entire Mythos class, but I envision it having (ex.)invisibility, buffing (simply because its allies are just better than it), and probably some great destiny it was never aware of.

As a couple ideas, just start writing and wait and see where things develop over time. Also you could try trawling over TVTropes just looking for potential banner character you can base some things off of, besides the established themes.

Consider making it pathetically weak, like a d4HD and commoner save progression and BAB, but with the ability to revive themselves on death X times per day, and have some mythos that exploit this (sort of like the character is not one individual, but is instead every nameless NPC in the campaign).

if you go for the 'respawns' idea consider things like allowing them to 'spend' unused spawns to improve their next incarnation, e.g. giving it a prior history giving the character appropriate skill bonuses, or getting to start with, low level class features of some class, get to take over a named NPC, and that sort of thing.

Other Ideas:
Something that always guarantees at least a minimum success/ability to contribute on things e.g. always gain a small bonus on skills, always be able to hit with attacks on a natural 15+ and deal at least one point of damage, ignoring DR and the like (the commoner is always there assigning, but never the focus).

As for the mechanical side of the buffing perhaps you can take a -x penalty (equal to ranks of Mythos they can use?) to grant a similar bonus to your allies. this would also synergise with the above idea.

The invisibility idea reminded me of a minor character in a webnovel I recently read called Worm, who basically had an aura that those inside of couldn't consider his as a threat, and just treat him as a harmless bystander. Perhaps combine this with a 'face in the crowd' style teleport?

[SirBellias]

I'm playing the Jagganatha in a game on next week. I'll tell y'all how it goes!

[spwack]

I'm playing the Jagganatha in a game on next week. I'll tell y'all how it goes!

Oh man, tell me everything, how did you manage this?

[SirBellias]

Oh man, tell me everything, how did you manage this?

Well, we're playing a game with multiple parties (?), and one of them has a different overpowered homebrew and a psion with 42 intelligence. As the leader of Team Evil (tm) I saw fit to ask the GM if I could level the playing field. I do believe I am still failing in that regard. We're all level five.

Also, do you think stacking the size increases from the Mythic Kobold and Jagganatha is viable? Because I really want to.

The DM may not know what's hitting him, but I went over the basics with him and he's convinced it will be an interesting campaign.

[VoodooPaladin]

do you think stacking the size increases from the Mythic Kobold and Jagganatha is viable?

At level five, wouldn't you still just be medium size? Or is this a long-term prospect?