Simple Q&A (By RAW) III

[Gralamin]

Expansion of A 583

According to The Draconomicon, Page 73, under the feat "Snatch and Swallow" it indicates it does. Due to this feat basically granting the Swallow whole ability, it is not unreasonable to rule this to be the case.

edit: Ninja'd. Oh well. My answer is different, so I'll call it a expansion.

Q 584
Refering to "Snatch and Swallow" (Draconomicon Page 73), under the text:

A Swallowed Creature can try to cut its way free with any light piercing or slashing weapon (The amount of damage required to get free is noted on the table below)

Where is this table? The related table on the following page does not seem to indicate how much damage would be needed.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Re: A 583

I do not own the Draconomicon, so I have to make do with the description at Realms Help. However, it should be noted that the feat never states it grants the Swallow Whole ability as it normally works. It is therefore reasonable to assume there may be some differences.

A 584

I believe the table was left out and a Sage Advice article included the table. Unfotunately, the table doesn't appear to have made it into hte FAQ, and I don't recall which issue of Dragon (if any) included the table.

[Gralamin]

Re: A 583

I do not own the Draconomicon, so I have to make do with the description at Realms Help. However, it should be noted that the feat never states it grants the Swallow Whole ability as it normally works. It is therefore reasonable to assume there may be some differences.

Re: A 583 Again

Lets do an in depth analysis

Swallow Whole

If a creature with this special attack begins its turn with an opponent held in its mouth (see Improved Grab), it can attempt a new grapple check (as though attempting to pin the opponent). If it succeeds, it swallows its prey, and the opponent takes bite damage.

Snatch And Swallow

If you begin your turn with an opponent held in your mouth, you can attempt a new grapple check (as though attempting to pin the opponent). If you succeed, your opponent takes bite damage and is swallowed.

Same so far

Unless otherwise noted, the opponent can be up to one size category smaller than the swallowing creature. Being swallowed has various consequences, depending on the creature doing the swallowing. A swallowed creature is considered to be grappled, while the creature that did the swallowing is not. A swallowed creature can try to cut its way free with any light slashing or piercing weapon (the amount of cutting damage required to get free is noted in the creature description), or it can just try to escape the grapple. The Armor Class of the interior of a creature that swallows whole is normally 10 + ½ its natural armor bonus, with no modifiers for size or Dexterity. If the swallowed creature escapes the grapple, success puts it back in the attacker’s mouth, where it may be bitten or swallowed again.

A swallowed creature is considered grappled, while you are not. A swallowed creature can try to cut its way free with any light piercing or slashing weapon (the amount of damage required to get free is noted on the table below), or it can just try to escape the grapple. If the swallowed creature chooses the latter course, success puts it back in your mouth. Any damage a swallowed creature deals is deducted from your hit points. If a creature cuts itself free, muscular action closes the hole, so that if you swallow someone again, that creature must cut itself free again. Swallowed creatures take damage in each round they remain swallowed, as shown below.

They seem remarkably close. I do not see the Reason why they just didn't state that the Dragon gained swallow whole, requiring X damage to escape (which is dealt to you), and while swallowed they take damage according to the table with the feat.


Re: A 584

Thanks, I just sent the question to Customer Service, and I hope to receive an answer.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

They seem remarkably close.

They are remarkably close. But then so are the Shadowdancer's version of Hide in Plain Sight and that of every other classes. But there are still crucial differences. (Suppose I could use a better example...)

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

A. 583 Continued

I looked through a few Swallow Whole descriptions and none of them said that the HP damage done to the gizzard or digestive tract was actually healed, just that the hole was closed.

Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out.

Shhalahr Windrider: Have you been reading some that that I haven't?

[Dhavaer]

Q 585

If you initiate Raging Mongoose and Time Stands Still in the same round, do you get the additional two attacks on both full attacks, or just the first?

[Alveanerle]

Q. 586
Spirit Naga
The description of the creature contains such a phrase:

Spirit nagas cast spells as 7th-level sorcerers, and can also cast spells from the cleric spell list and from the Chaos and Evil domains as arcane spells.

Does it mean that she can choose spells from cleric/domain lists as her sorcerous spells known? Or maybe the other way round - she chooses her spells known from sorc list and then adds all the cleric and Chaos/Evil domain spells to her spells known list?

Q. 587
Grabbing and constricting - again.

Just to clarify, as my mind got hazy on these recently due to grab-discussion traffic and player questions - for creature with improved grab and constrict damage:
- does the constrict damage get applied in the same round the creature did hit&grab?
- does the constrict damage replace or gets added to the normal unarmed damage in the following rounds, when the creature does its "make a grapple check to damage" routine?
- i was sure that the improved grab grapple check breaks the full attack routine. Now i've read some interpretations that the full attack routine should continue, and the improved grab grapple checks should be resolved at the end of it. Which one is correct?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

A. 586

The Spirit Naga casts spells as a sorcerer and therefore needs to know the spell before it can cast it.
Spells known can be chosen from all the lists mentioned in the entry.

This can also be seen from the list of spells typically known.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

A. 587

Q. 587
Grabbing and constricting - again.

Just to clarify, as my mind got hazy on these recently due to grab-discussion traffic and player questions - for creature with improved grab and constrict damage:
- does the constrict damage get applied in the same round the creature did hit&grab?
- does the constrict damage replace or gets added to the normal unarmed damage in the following rounds, when the creature does its "make a grapple check to damage" routine?

If a creature has the Constrict ability simply establishing a hold is enough for it to be able to deal Constrict damage.
Constrict damage is in addition to the damage dealt by the weapon used for the Improved Grab ability.

A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature’s descriptive text).

- i was sure that the improved grab grapple check breaks the full attack routine. Now i've read some interpretations that the full attack routine should continue, and the improved grab grapple checks should be resolved at the end of it. Which one is correct?

That would be a house rule. As soon as the weapon used for Improved Grab hits, the creature has to decide between trying to start a grapple, grapple with the weapon separately or continue attacking with the rest of its weapon normally.
If it choses the first option and establishes a hold they are now grappling and the creature cannot continue the full attack as normal.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

I looked through a few Swallow Whole descriptions and none of them said that the HP damage done to the gizzard or digestive tract was actually healed, just that the hole was closed.

Healed in the sense that none of the damage counts for anything else. You do <x> damage and get out, but the next person to get swallowed has to do the same amount of damage all over again to get out.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Healed in the sense that none of the damage counts for anything else. You do <x> damage and get out, but the next person to get swallowed has to do the same amount of damage all over again to get out.

Yes, but it does not actually say that this damage does not count for anything else. The next person has to cut a new hole, because the old one is closed, but there is no mentioning of this process not hurting the creature.

Maybe that is why it is important to always chew your food?

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Re: 583

Yes, but it does not actually say that this damage does not count for anything else.

It doesn't say it does, either.

...I think we're probably headed to "new individual thread" territory. Otherwise we have to leave the answer as, "RAW is unclear on the issue."

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

A. 585

Q 585

If you initiate Raging Mongoose and Time Stands Still in the same round, do you get the additional two attacks on both full attacks, or just the first?

You only get it on the first. Two extra attacks per use of raging Mongoose, not two extra per full attack.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Re: 583

It doesn't say it does, either.

If this was a special case where HP damage taken to a part of a creature should not be deducted from the HP total I think it would deserve at least a casual remark.

The old friend a Hydra can also take damage to a specific part and here it is specified in detail how this damage does not equate the damage done to the body. (Considering how poorly the Hydra entry is written this says quite a lot. )

If this was not the case the following comment about rogue tactics by the sage makes very little sense.

Does a character who has been swallowed whole treat the swallowing monster as flat-footed?

The Sage thinks that’s a reasonable interpretation. ...
Put together, this means that letting the rogue get gulped
might make an effective way to defeat a swallowing monster . . . assuming the bite and ongoing damage doesn’t kill her.

(My emphasis)

...I think we're probably headed to "new individual thread" territory. Otherwise we have to leave the answer as, "RAW is unclear on the issue."

If the FAQ quote does not convince you I think we should take this elsewhere.

[Bucephalus]

Q:588

i have a quick question about grapple attacks. when you make a meele touch attack to grab, what bonous do you get? your base attack bonous? your grapple modifier? if anyone could clear this up for me that would be great, thanks!

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

A. 588

You use your grapple modifier:

BAB + STR modifier + size modifier

Grapple Checks

Repeatedly in a grapple, you need to make opposed grapple checks against an opponent. A grapple check is like a melee attack roll. Your attack bonus on a grapple check is:

Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + special size modifier

Special Size Modifier: The special size modifier for a grapple check is as follows: Colossal +16, Gargantuan +12, Huge +8, Large +4, Medium +0, Small –4, Tiny –8, Diminutive –12, Fine –16. Use this number in place of the normal size modifier you use when making an attack roll.

[Bucephalus]

Q:588
right, but when you initiate the grapple, you dont make a grapple check untill you suceed in a touch attack, and my question is what modifier do you use on that touch attack?

[Shhalahr Windrider]

A 588

It's a normal melee touch attack.

BAB + Str + Size modifier + Any bonuses that specifically enhance touch attacks.