A Paladin's Code

[Frozen_Feet]

Don't codes like these assume the authorities are always good?

No.

There are systems where some entity is Right by definition. But just as well there are plenty whete authorities are only good insofar as they themselves follow the principles of justice. It's possible for a paladin's superior to give an unlawful order, ie. an order they are not authorized to give or an order which violates the spirit in which the paladin is meant to act.

Would such a code work out in terms of playability though? If the King, an NPC, ordered a paladin PC to execute his party member, the code would mean the paladin must either fall or the party member dies. Oops.

Provided the other character has done something worthy of execution? That's not a bug, that's a feature!

Who writes the Code anyway? The gods? The King? The leader of the paladin order? The paladin hirself?

The game master, duh. Or a player if you're feeling heretical.

[goto124]

There are systems where some entity is Right by definition. But just as well there are plenty whete authorities are only good insofar as they themselves follow the principles of justice. It's possible for a paladin's superior to give an unlawful order, ie. an order they are not authorized to give or an order which violates the spirit in which the paladin is meant to act.

... and this is recognised by the authority themselves? And written as such into the code?

[Frozen_Feet]

Yes to the former (the concept has existed since at least Roman times), mu to the latter.

What is the spirit of a law or how to interprete a law often are not, and sometimes cannot be codified in the law itself. This is why religious texts and justice systems alike have had a separate interpretative traditions from the main text.

[veti]

A paladin is one who can be trusted. Specifically, by his/her patron. One who will always, in all circumstances and all times, put the interests of The Cause first - ahead of not only their own wellbeing, but also their family, friends, and the adorable lisping orphan they just rescued.

Everything else is gravy.

[Âmesang]

…suddenly I want to play as a paladin with Profession (cook) questing for the world's greatest gravy recipé. Might make for an interesting (if not outright silly) flaw if it happens to get in the way of his code.

"Save the orphan? Save the gravy? %&#$ it!"

[8BitNinja]

I haven't been able to explain what the Paladin I am basing it off of looks like

so here is his life (put this in a D&D setting if you will)

Steve is a Paladin, he worships a Crystal Dragon Jesus and his religion is a straight port from The Bible (except the part about noother gods existing, this is D&D, so to him, all the other ones are inferior). He wears white armor which gleams in the sunlight and carries a sword which glows with holy light, and walks very closely to his God. Steve also under King Jerry, a benevolent king who just wants to help everyone (but those orcs and goblins ruin everything). His Order was made during a time when he was a part of one of the last righteous kingdoms, is very much a gentleman, and could qualify as a Chaste Hero (makes that seventh one super easy). Steve's flaws is that he is quick to judge, sometimes starts arguments that don't need to happen, and being totally oblivious to the ladies reacting to his 18 charisma (but in the Book of Exalted Deeds he gets a bonus for that).

Is this good enough to base his code on?

He also has a horse named Henry

[Faily]

I haven't been able to explain what the Paladin I am basing it off of looks like

so here is his life (put this in a D&D setting if you will)

Steve is a Paladin, he worships a Crystal Dragon Jesus and his religion is a straight port from The Bible (except the part about noother gods existing, this is D&D, so to him, all the other ones are inferior). He wears white armor which gleams in the sunlight and carries a sword which glows with holy light, and walks very closely to his God. Steve also under King Jerry, a benevolent king who just wants to help everyone (but those orcs and goblins ruin everything). His Order was made during a time when he was a part of one of the last righteous kingdoms, is very much a gentleman, and could qualify as a Chaste Hero (makes that seventh one super easy). Steve's flaws is that he is quick to judge, sometimes starts arguments that don't need to happen, and being totally oblivious to the ladies reacting to his 18 charisma (but in the Book of Exalted Deeds he gets a bonus for that).

Is this good enough to base his code on?

He also has a horse named Henry

I think you're overthinking the code a bit too much, tbh, based on that.

It sounds like you want to play a romanticized paladin of Charlemagne, with a focus on chivalry. 2nd Edition's Paladin's Handbook summarizes that arctype really well, especially its view on courtly romance.

Having played a fair share of Paladins, and with different codes to each, keep it simple and stick to 3 core principles and maybe 2-3 lesser requirements.

[Dienekes]

I haven't been able to explain what the Paladin I am basing it off of looks like

so here is his life (put this in a D&D setting if you will)

Steve is a Paladin, he worships a Crystal Dragon Jesus and his religion is a straight port from The Bible (except the part about noother gods existing, this is D&D, so to him, all the other ones are inferior). He wears white armor which gleams in the sunlight and carries a sword which glows with holy light, and walks very closely to his God. Steve also under King Jerry, a benevolent king who just wants to help everyone (but those orcs and goblins ruin everything). His Order was made during a time when he was a part of one of the last righteous kingdoms, is very much a gentleman, and could qualify as a Chaste Hero (makes that seventh one super easy). Steve's flaws is that he is quick to judge, sometimes starts arguments that don't need to happen, and being totally oblivious to the ladies reacting to his 18 charisma (but in the Book of Exalted Deeds he gets a bonus for that).

Is this good enough to base his code on?

He also has a horse named Henry

Well, to me this sounds like he has several codes he has to balance.

There's the base code of his religion.
Then there's the specific codes of his Order
There's his code as a knight of King Jerry which would be it's own separate thing.

The religion may demand chastity until marriage, and just generally being a good dude
The Paladin Order may demand honesty in all things, defending the weak, and spreading the word of the church through the sword if necessary
King Jerry may demand that all his knights must obey their feudal superiors in all things, and obey the rules of courtesy

[AMFV]

Well, to me this sounds like he has several codes he has to balance.

Definitely agree, the codes may even come into conflict. Here is the big point. Talk to the player (if you are the GM), or the the GM (if you are the player), if you are looking for complex moral dillemma with the code, spell it out, talk about it. If you don't want those, then that should be discussed as well.

IMHO a big reason that Paladins cause so much discord is a difference of base opinions, where a player is expecting to play the holy kicker of backside, who occasionally hams up his code, and the DM goes "Oh boy complex morality and philosophy discussions here we come!" Or the reverse. Paladins, more so than most other classes, need to have a lot of discussion prior to the game, because they are bound in game mechanics by their code, so what kind of game and where that will go plot-wise needs addressed.

[8BitNinja]

Should his friends play a part with how he acts and reacts in accordance with things?

there is:

Manny- CN Halfling Thief: A Klepto hobbit who needs serious help, the group's Lancer
Nerl- NG Elf Wizard: One of the best wizards of Elvington, quiet and reserved, The Smart Guy
Greg- LG Human Cleric: A mace-loving cleric of Steve's God (Even though the deity's preferred weapon is a longsword), The Smart Guy
Jason- LG Dwarf Fighter: is a Dwarf, The Tough Guy
Peter- CG Human Bard: That one guy who can't control himself in the inn and casts off all restraints, 6th Ranger
Sabrina- LG Human Ranger: The only girl and a Ranger of the Tree Forests, The Chick

I listed their roles of a 5 man band

TV Tropes is everywhere

NOTE: Any correlation between this group and OotS is coincidental

[YossarianLives]

I have to ask... Why does your entire party have really mundane modern names?

[8BitNinja]

I have to ask... Why does your entire party have really mundane modern names?

We suck at naming things

You should see my Medieval Fantasy Card/Board Game (Style similar to the oots game in how the board works)

The characters names are
Steve
Clark
Greg
Brad

and

Thor

and my brother has a homebrew enemy for every Tabletop game, no matter what called a Fishy
Rules will change, but he will find a way to add it

[Âmesang]

Odinson always seems to find his way onto odd lists, doesn't he? "A bulette, a beholder, a mindflayer… Thor!"

[8BitNinja]

So back to the topic, based on the code and/or, depending how you view Steve's life, how he would interact with those characters?

[8BitNinja]

Well, I think I just ended this thread

If this is false, I'll see a comment

[AMFV]

Well, I think I just ended this thread

If this is false, I'll see a comment

The forums have been down, people are probably going to filter back in gradually.

[8BitNinja]

The forums have been down, people are probably going to filter back in gradually.

Alright, thanks

[chase0351]

Core things that make playing paladins cool and challenging, but were also the main points of the complete paladin's handbook:
1. GOLDEN RULE -- Never back down from a challenge, even if you know its a trap with the odds against you (but not impossible). The reasoning is that the whole point of you having powers is to use them. Running away is viewed as desertion and a lack of faith, while putting your life above the judgement of the deity, and it also potentially harms the reputation of you and the deity---a three-fold slap across the deity's face.

2. Don't accept bribes. Hell, don't accept anything that isn't necessary to maintain the performance of your official duties. (this is pretty roman)
3. Maintain a good public image. Don't wear dark colors or wear dirty armor. Associations with ne'er-do-wells and ruffians are forbidden because it harms your ability to bring the community together. (This means hanging out with Lawful Good 'Strider' Aragorn from lotr is a naughty no-no because his reputation in Bree is **** and he doesn't keep physically clean.)
4. Courteousness. Always be polite and kind, or at the very least crisply professional, until they personally dis you or your bosses, but never sink to their level. Not even a god-damned demon is below your courtesy before they tell your deity is a ***** and you definitely end them. Go against this at personal penalty.

5. NUMBER 1 NO-NO: Don't use subterfuge, even if it's tactically smart to do so. The backstab is the antithesis, the anathema of any paladin. Even if one were to attempt to backstab Hitler, it wouldn't be justified unless you alerted him, challenged him, gave him time to pick up his weapon, and then he chose to turn and flee. Only under those circumstances would a stab in the back be acceptable. However, even then it wouldn't qualify as a backstab from which a rogue could receive a damage bonus, at least not in basic 1e through AD&D 2e, because the element of surprise would have been eliminated. The point of this is to show that the power of your deity is not only fair and equally applicable to everyone, but it is also inevitable. The deity plays the long game while mortals can only feel the short impact of the relative present.

6. Swear fealty to an organization focused on Religion, Government, or Philosophy. Never serve a government for its own sake, always pair it with either religion or philosophy. Never mix Philosophy with Religion, because that's not a lawful institution, that's a powder keg. If none are available (a truly desperate environment), you can swear to yourself to uphold your own code of ethics.

(The additive policies and duties that are suited to the local domain come from the earthly ground level public offices that flesh and blood people have built out of necessity to maintain their communities.)




I stole the following from The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) website. I tried to incorporate the above with the sites' code of ethics, but found that most of it matched anyway.

Code of Ethics
As a paladin, my fundamental duty is to serve my deity by serving the community; to safeguard lives and property; to protect the innocent against deception, the weak against oppression or intimidation and the peaceful against violence or chaos; and to respect the legal rights of all to fairness, order, and justice.

I will keep my private life unsullied as an example to all and will behave in a manner that does not bring discredit to me or to my agency. I will maintain courageous calm in the face of danger, scorn or ridicule; develop self-restraint; and be constantly mindful of the welfare of others. Honest in thought and deed both in my personal and official life, I will be exemplary in obeying the law and the regulations of my lord, but above all my deity. Whatever I see or hear of a confidential nature or that is confided to me in my official capacity will be kept ever secret unless revelation is necessary in the performance of my duty.

I will never act officiously or permit personal feelings (fear, love, embarrassment, anger), prejudices, alliances, aspirations, animosities or friendships to influence my decisions. With no compromise for crime and with relentless prosecution of criminals, I will enforce the law courteously and appropriately without fear or favor, malice or ill will, never employing unnecessary force or violence and never accepting bribes.

I recognize the armor I wear, the holy blade I wield, and the steed I ride as a symbol of public faith, and I accept it as a public trust to be held so long as I am true to the code. I will never stray from a challenge that I am worthy for, on pain of loss of honor. I will never engage in acts of corruption or bribery, nor will I condone such acts by my peers, followers, or superiors. I will cooperate with all legally appointed powers and their representatives in the pursuit of justice.

I know that I alone am responsible for my own standard of professional service and will take every reasonable opportunity to enhance and improve my level of knowledge and competence.
I will constantly strive to achieve these objectives and ideals, dedicating myself before my deity to my chosen profession… justice rendered done.

[truemane]

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