LUCIFER ( some light spoilers )

[Kislath]

Personally, I'm hoping that he's still bulletproof unless it's Chloe who shoots him.
Right now he's all jazzed and excited over the prospect of being mortal. I would think he'd get bored with that pretty quickly once he got hurt a few times, and worse, he'd lose all of his fearless cockiness. Watching him cower and duck wouldn't be as much fun as watching him stroll right up to armed thugs and insult them.

It might be fun to watch him cower and run only to get cornered and shot, only to realize that it didn't hurt. The look on the badguy's face would be priceless.

My TV cable went on the fritz for a few seconds a few times during the show. I didn't get to see what Maze and Amenadiel were discussing while fighting, and I missed whatever it was that Chloe saw that made her freak out and shoot Lucy. What was it?

[Olinser]

Personally, I'm hoping that he's still bulletproof unless it's Chloe who shoots him.
Right now he's all jazzed and excited over the prospect of being mortal. I would think he'd get bored with that pretty quickly once he got hurt a few times, and worse, he'd lose all of his fearless cockiness. Watching him cower and duck wouldn't be as much fun as watching him stroll right up to armed thugs and insult them.

It might be fun to watch him cower and run only to get cornered and shot, only to realize that it didn't hurt. The look on the badguy's face would be priceless.

My TV cable went on the fritz for a few seconds a few times during the show. I didn't get to see what Maze and Amenadiel were discussing while fighting, and I missed whatever it was that Chloe saw that made her freak out and shoot Lucy. What was it?

He was basically taunting her to do it. She saw a reflection of him as he was mind-whammying the chick antagonist and demanded to know what he was, and if I recall the conversation went:

Chloe - What are you!?!??!
Lucifer - You know what I am
Chloe - *WORDS* - I don't believe you
Lucifer - You've got the gun go ahead and prove it. PROVE IT
*SHOT IN LEG*
Lucifer - there you see? Doesn't hurt at all. Uh, actually it kind of stings. **** that actually HURTS!!! I'm BLEEDING!?!?!

For the 'only Chloe can hurt him' - I hadn't considered that angle, it's a possibility, which would also fuel the 'Chloe is part angel/devil' theory that I put forth earlier. The implication so far is that at least Amenadiel is capable of hurting him, so he's not 100% immortal.

HOWEVER, I feel like that is a very questionable angle to take, given that Chloe SHOT him, rather than punched/hit him. It's still a mundane, human-made bullet, regardless of who pulled the trigger, so I don't see the logic in 'only Chloe can hurt him' as it applies to that. Amenadiel at least threatened Lucifer with his wing-blades.

[Brother Oni]

HOWEVER, I feel like that is a very questionable angle to take, given that Chloe SHOT him, rather than punched/hit him. It's still a mundane, human-made bullet, regardless of who pulled the trigger, so I don't see the logic in 'only Chloe can hurt him' as it applies to that. Amenadiel at least threatened Lucifer with his wing-blades.

A lot of the protections in this setting seem to work by the spirit rather than the letter of the wording - see the Sandman story arc where Dream sends Caine as a messenger to Lucifer since he's the only person that can't be killed without repercussions that even Lucifer can't ignore.
Lucifer still does the equivalent of dangling Caine out of a window because he's Lucifer Morningstar, pride incarnate, but if Caine's seven fold retribution worked by the letter, Lucifer dropping him shouldn't trigger it since it's the fall and impact with the ground that kills him, not Lucifer directly.

Wow, that's a lot Lucifers in two sentences.

[comicshorse]

My TV cable went on the fritz for a few seconds a few times during the show. I didn't get to see what Maze and Amenadiel were discussing while fighting, and I missed whatever it was that Chloe saw that made her freak out and shoot Lucy. What was it?

Amenadiel wanted Maze to help him in his efforts to get Lucifer to return to Hell. Maze refused and attacked him which Amen (Ha ) handled fairly easily and pinned her against the wall. At which point she licked his face, which he seemed to find disturbing on a number of levels and left

[Kislath]

Licked his face? Hahahahaha.
Those two should just get a room.

Okay, so Chloe shot Lucy and now thinks he's mortal. How does she explain to herself what she saw, I wonder? Seeing his actual face isn't the kind of thing she can just ignore.

[Brother Oni]

Licked his face? Hahahahaha.
Those two should just get a room.

Good thing Maze is a lillim and not a succubus then.

[Eldan]

She might not be in the series. Comic Mazikeen is a barely contained bundle of rage pretty much all the time. I couldn't see her lick anyone.

[Cen]

I couldn't see her lick anyone.

Well she was quite eager to lick Lucifer :-)

Spoiler: Caution: Mazikeen's real face might be disturbing

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[random11]

From the writers perspective, I understand why they made Lucifer mortal.

In the comic, Lucifer is fighting gods and other supernatural forces.
In the TV show however, it is already established that he will be working with the other lead character who is just a regular mortal cop.
Unless things change (like Chloe getting superpowers from angelic ancestors), the enemies have to be limited to enemies the police usually face. You have some wiggle room (X-files typed challenges), but you can't have Chloe fight Thor in the current state of the plot without breaking anything.

So since the enemies are limited to a certain strength, Lucifer also needs to be limited.
It was fun for a few episodes, but there is a limit to how much fun you can extract from a plot where an immortal Lucifer needs to fight things without any risk or challenge.

Bottom line, unless they change directions, this is just another "cop and a special civilian" TV show.
Not necessarily bad, but also nothing unique.

[Olinser]

So, new episode!

Spoiler: undefined

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Lucifer seems to have permanently attached himself to Chloe in basically the same way as Castle - by going through the boss . So now he's a permapartner for Chloe.

Other than Lucifer permanently attaching to the LAPD, no real resolution for anything - no info or suggestion of whether it was Chloe that could hurt him or if he was just vulnerable in general. Hopefully we'll find out soon.

Also.... LOL I'm not sure if that double entendre by Angel boy was intentional or not. But it was hilarious.

At the end I BELIEVE that is supposed to be Mazikeen's real face.

Spoiler: undefined

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[ThinkMinty]

A thought occurred to me about Lucifer's accent. He's got an English accent but wasn't born in England right ? I'm assuming the Lord of Hell isn't going to fake an accent so that must be his natural accent.
Is this why in american movies the bad guy tends to be English because we subconsciously recognise this as sounding like the Lord of Evil ? And why do some of us English speak like the Lord of Hell ?

Keep in mind I haven't watched the show yet.

Lucifer does that because he thinks it sounds arrogant to Americans. His accent might even change to the perceived-haughtiest version of something depending on the listener without him being in control of or possibly even aware of it, some kind of weird take on how Marvel!Thor speaks some kind of mystical meta-tongue that everyone understands in their native language. His speech patterns will reflect something the listener finds insufferably smug. His speaking voice, in whatever earthly tongue he dips it into, is the sound of a man eating an apple while having a conversation, but not even finishing the apple.

[Soepvork]

(...) same way as Castle (...)

To be honest, everything about this show just reminds me of the early episodes of Castle (well, apart from the fact that Castle is (probably) not the lord of hell)

[random11]

To be honest, everything about this show just reminds me of the early episodes of Castle (well, apart from the fact that Castle is (probably) not the lord of hell)

As well as The Mentalist, Minority Report, Bones, or any other TV show presenting a cop with a socially awkward civilian specialist.

I think it's a waste.
I'm not just talking about the comparison for the comic, Lucifer could have been something different.

[Soepvork]

As well as The Mentalist, Minority Report, Bones, or any other TV show presenting a cop with a socially awkward civilian specialist.

Probably, but of these I have only seen Castle. It even feels like the same type of humour :)

[Brother Oni]

To be honest, everything about this show just reminds me of the early episodes of Castle (well, apart from the fact that Castle is (probably) not the lord of hell)

The most powerful god that Castle's been (outside of fandom) is Hermes in the second Percy Jackson film, who is still a far cry from Lucifer's closest equivalent, Hades.

As well as The Mentalist, Minority Report, Bones, or any other TV show presenting a cop with a socially awkward civilian specialist.

I think it's a waste.
I'm not just talking about the comparison for the comic, Lucifer could have been something different.

There's a slight difference in that Lucifer's socially inappropriate rather than socially awkward, but I concede that Lucifer occupies the same outsider role.

That said, things appear to be picking up in this episode:

Spoiler: Sweet Kicks

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With Amen pumping info from the psychiatrist (might be a funny scene if he ends up seducing her and she makes a comparison between his and Lucifer's performance) and the possibility of Maze's role of Lucifer's protector resulting in her trying to kill Chloe, there may be a sudden mood swing from the typical 'socially awkward civilian and long suffering cop' shows.

We're about to hit half way through the season, so there's still plenty of time for the plot to advance - Agents of SHIELD's plot took a sharp turn with the Winter Soldier movie tie-in episode 'Turn, Turn, Turn' (17 of 22).

[Olinser]

...With Amen pumping info from the psychiatrist...

I see what you did there.

[Olinser]

New episode, looks like we're seeing some actual plot moving forward, wonder if it's just going to be 2 episodes or longer.

Spoiler: undefined

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So stealing Lucifer's wings means that you have to know WHAT you are stealing and what you can do with them. So we're seeing the work of most likely the first supernatural bad guy of the series and a step away from just procedural cop show with Lucifer hanging around. Hopefully we'll get some interesting development in the next few episodes.

[random11]

Until the last episode, as a fan of the comic I felt betrayed.
Not because it doesn't match the comic, I never expected this from a TV adaptation.
It was mostly because in the show I could easily replace the character of Lucifer with an alien from the planet Ziborg and it would have made just as much sense (probably even more sense considering of how he behaves).
The only reason for the name is to use the hype from people like me who enjoyed the comic, and maybe to cause some religious controversy.

After the last episode I'm both hopeful and suspicious.
Not only the wings but also the speech Lucifer made about how he never made people do anything and how they blame him for their bad choices, that was taken almost word by word from the comic.
This shows us that at least some of the writers read and appreciated the source material.

Now, will they use the material to make the show special, or are they (again) using ideas from the comic just create excitement only to drop them later and disappoint with another regular "cop plus one" show?

I guess we'll find out soon enough

[Kislath]

Lots of big questions this week:

Spoiler

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I'm excited to see who it was who stole the wings and what he wants with them.
The preview made it sound like the wings themselves are somehow very dangerous and powerful. I guess that's a good motive for stealing them.

I noticed how he complained to his therapist that he CAN'T fully embrace his true self anymore since his wings were gone.

Are they possibly a key to his power? Is he becoming mortal because they're gone? Will he get full power restored if he puts them back on again?

What happens if someone else tries to use them? Is that even possible?

[Olinser]

Lots of big questions this week:

Spoiler

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I'm excited to see who it was who stole the wings and what he wants with them.
The preview made it sound like the wings themselves are somehow very dangerous and powerful. I guess that's a good motive for stealing them.

I noticed how he complained to his therapist that he CAN'T fully embrace his true self anymore since his wings were gone.

Are they possibly a key to his power? Is he becoming mortal because they're gone? Will he get full power restored if he puts them back on again?

What happens if someone else tries to use them? Is that even possible?

Spoiler: undefined

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I do agree, it seems as though his wings themselves are useable in SOME fashion. Whether that's because Archangel feathers make powerful ingredients for spells, or something of the kind, whether a lesser Angel/Demon could somehow use them to increase their own power, or whether there is some way for somebody to use the wings to BECOME an Angel, there are numerous possibilities.

A big part of the importance of his wings is exactly WHEN he cut them off. Did he cut them off when he was originally cast down to Hell? If so, I can't see them having much effect outside generic Angel wings being valuable/powerful.

HOWEVER, if he cut them off when he left Hell and came to earth, then we have a pretty good potential reason for why he's losing his powers. Though if that's the case I can't quite grasp that he's dumb enough to not put two and two together and realize why he's losing his power. And if that's the case, then it's entirely possible that somebody could somehow use the wings to gain Lucifer's original powers.

[Darth Credence]

I don't think that he is losing his powers, and I don't understand why he hasn't tested it yet. He can still clearly do the things he does, as he got the clothing line bit out of Tom Sizemore. The only thing that we have to say for sure he is losing his power is that Chloe could hurt him. Since Amenadiel could hurt him as well, and is not affected by his powers, I assumed we would one day find that Chloe is more than she seems. If I was Lucifer, I would have gotten one of the women he gets to do some whipping - if it hurts, he knows something is up with him, if it doesn't he knows something is up with Chloe.

[comicshorse]

New episode, looks like we're seeing some actual plot moving forward, wonder if it's just going to be 2 episodes or longer.

Spoiler: undefined

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So stealing Lucifer's wings means that you have to know WHAT you are stealing and what you can do with them. So we're seeing the work of most likely the first supernatural bad guy of the series and a step away from just procedural cop show with Lucifer hanging around. Hopefully we'll get some interesting development in the next few episodes.

Spoiler

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While I actually hope this will herald a new character I'm guessing as Amenadiel primed his therapist to bring up matters which would remind Lucifer of why he needed his wings that he was behind the robbery.
Also notice the arrogance of Lucifer. In a trailer which contains his greatest treasure in a hidden compartment he can't resist putting Russian dolls, famous for containing other things within them

[Kislath]

Spoiler

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Also notice the arrogance of Lucifer. In a trailer which contains his greatest treasure in a hidden compartment he can't resist putting Russian dolls, famous for containing other things within them

Ha! I totally missed that! Brilliant.

[Talakeal]

Spoiler

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Also notice the arrogance of Lucifer. In a trailer which contains his greatest treasure in a hidden compartment he can't resist putting Russian dolls, famous for containing other things within them

Ha! I totally missed that! Brilliant.

Its always weird when movies hide something literal next to something metaphorical.

Like in Pirates of the Caribbean when his literal heart is hidden under a pile of love letters, on in National Treasures where a giant pile of gold is hidden under the scrolls from the Library of Alexandria.

I am not sure exactly what the purpose / symbolism is, but I imagine it would be a great way to fool scrying in some settings.

[Olinser]

New episode.

Spoiler: undefined

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OK, confirmation that Lucifer DID sever his wings when he left Hell (incidentally Maze cut them off). Which frankly to me suggests THAT is the culprit for him slowly losing his powers and immortality, and I'm not sure exactly why it didn't occur to Lucifer. Unless of course Chloe is the expy of Ellaine Belloc.

Also, REALLY not sure why they didn't just take the wings by force from the start. I mean, it's been previously proven on screen that Amenadiel can stop bullets in the air. The only reason I can come up with for Lucifer wasn't OK with Amenadiel just freezing time, manhandling everybody in the room, and taking his wings is bad writing. Especially since he did EXACTLY THAT five minutes later.

Also not really surprised that Amenadiel was the one that orchestrated the theft of the wings. Although I am REALLY surprised that he hasn't faced some kind of divine consequences, since his actions directly caused the death of that security guard on the container.

Although a though did just strike me. Lucifer had said earlier that the fake wings would fool ANYBODY but the previous owner. I'm seriously wondering whether Lucifer pulled a bait and switch, burning the fake wings, so that he could still have his 'out'. After all, Amenadiel was also fooled by the wings on the stage, and he only saw the wings on the beach for just a few seconds before Lucifer torched them.

I'm also about 80% of the way towards believing that the ex-husband is the one that shot the cop in Palmetto, or is at least fully aware of who DID shoot him.

[comicshorse]

Spoiler

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So why on earth does Amenadeil care about saving the dying cop ? Is he just trying to redemm himself for his involvement in the security gaurds death and his assault on Lucifer or does he have a plan ?

[Olinser]

Spoiler

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So why on earth does Amenadeil care about saving the dying cop ? Is he just trying to redemm himself for his involvement in the security gaurds death and his assault on Lucifer or does he have a plan ?

Well, I do have a couple theories on that.

Spoiler: undefined

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Obviously Amenadiel has realized that Chloe is playing a central part in Lucifer's staying around. So he has to either get rid of her or get her to throw Lucifer out so that he will be depressed enough to leave Earth and go back to Hell. Being an angel, actually permanently getting rid of her is probably out of the question (unless he can goad Maze into doing it).

Now there are basically (2) major possibilities here.

(1) The cop is going to wake up, be pissed about Chloe dragging him name through the mud, and is going to get Chloe kicked off the force. Through some unforeseen circumstance, she's going to blame Lucifer, and demand he leave forever. Unlikely because I really don't currently see a reasonable way to make that jump to blaming Lucifer.

(2) As I have previously theorized, Cop Ex-Husband either was the Palmetto shooter, or has known all along who they were. Lucifer is going to find out about it via questioning the now awake cop, but Detective Douche will realize it and head him off by convincing her that Lucifer is just trying to get rid of her ex-husband so he can screw her. She's going to believe Douche Ex, and Lucifer is going to be pissed and just leave (ideally for Amenadiel back to Hell).

(2b) Detective Douche IS, in fact, innocent, but Lucifer will THINK he's guilty (perhaps the real shooter will try to frame him), and when he's revealed to be innocent than it once again looks like Lucifer just tried to get rid of him so he can screw Chloe, and Lucifer gets kicked to the curb again.

2 and 2b are effectively the same, the only difference is whether Douche Ex is guilty or innocent, and frankly it really doesn't matter, the scenarios play out basically the same - Lucifer looks like he's trying to get rid of him to screw Chloe, and Chloe gets pissed and demands he leave forever. The only difference is that if Douche is guilty, Chloe will be forced to realize it was a mistake.

Right now I favor 2, but 2b is just as likely, from a meta sense they suddenly had an appearance at the end of the last episode by Coma Guy's Partner at the wake, he got an awful lot of screen time for a previously unimportant character.

[Kislath]

Spoiler:

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I'm pretty sure that the Palmetto shooter will turn out to be that cop who got a lot of closeups and camera time for no apparent reason. The one who stood at the front and center of the room, looking all sinister yet indignant.

As for why Amen healed that guy, I suspect it is a blend of him just being nice and his knowing that it will allow him to finger the guy who shot him, which will somehow fit into his plans.

[thorgrim29]

Spoiler: undefined

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OK, confirmation that Lucifer DID sever his wings when he left Hell (incidentally Maze cut them off). Which frankly to me suggests THAT is the culprit for him slowly losing his powers and immortality, and I'm not sure exactly why it didn't occur to Lucifer. Unless of course Chloe is the expy of Ellaine Belloc.

Although a though did just strike me. Lucifer had said earlier that the fake wings would fool ANYBODY but the previous owner. I'm seriously wondering whether Lucifer pulled a bait and switch, burning the fake wings, so that he could still have his 'out'. After all, Amenadiel was also fooled by the wings on the stage, and he only saw the wings on the beach for just a few seconds before Lucifer torched them.

I was wondering about the first part too... But I still think that Chloe's last name is significant in some meta way (Decker is almost Deckard, as in Harrison Ford's character in Blade Runner, but actually calling her that would be too obvious). So if I,m right there's something specific about her. So far the only people who've hurt him are her and an angel after all. Also he's been in LA for 5 years and started becoming mortal a week or two after meeting her? Big coincidence.

I also had that thought about the second part. The question is would he lie to Maze?

[Darth Credence]

Spoiler: That cop

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As soon as I saw the guy from The Unforgiven (that's where I know the cop who was leading the wake, although he has been in a lot of things), it was clear that he was going to have a bigger part than just random cop. This is the Narrowed it down to the guy I recognize trope. I think that roles like this pretty much sums up his current career.