Optimization help please:

[Klorox]

I'm joining a party at 8th level. They could really use some healing and a character that can hold his own in melee

I was planning on following a guide about a reach cleric. He'd have the travel and luck domains, and use a longspear.

The character is an aasimar, and I'm using 20 point buy.


I chose an aasimar sub race that gave me STR and WIS bonuses. My stats are 18/14/14/10/16/10.

Am I doing alright, or should I tweak this character (or scrap him)?

I have played a lot of 1e, 2e, and 5e D&D, but 3, 3.5, and pathfinder are foreign to me.

Thanks for the help!

[Geddy2112]

Travel and luck are two of the best domains in the game, so on that alone you should be okay.

How much melee does the party need? 18 strength is a bit much, even for a melee cleric. Likewise, if you are using a reach weapon you don't really need a 14 in con. A 16str and 12 con is sufficient, and you probably want more dex than con in the long run. You won't have much in the way of skills with 10 intelligence, but if the party has that covered then pass. If the party really needs healing get at least a 12 in cha for some extra channeling, but at this level with a wand of cure light wounds and spontaneous cure spells you could leave it at a 10.

Since you have a reach weapon and 14 dex, take combat reflexes to have an extra attack of opportunity. With the travel domain giving you extra speed, get some medium armor to help your AC.

[Florian]

@Klorox:

Don´t use Aasimar for this. To make the most out of your reach, you want to buy a couple of potions of Enlarge Person and those don´t work on Aasimar (They´re Native Outsiders, not Humanoids).

You should also consider aiming for a fast entry into the Exalted PrC (Inner Sea Gods), so as to gain a third domain at around level 11. The requirements hurt but going with Half Elf lessens the pain a bit.

Some advise: The classic Reach Cleric is a functional build but until reaching the endgame levels, it simply is outperformed by the Warpriest class in every way. Once the martial classes start to shift into high gear, poking stuff with a longspear is less and less appealing and efficient. At least consider a one-level dip into Warpriest for the free proficiencies and Weapon Focus feat, so you can wield something decent.

Edit: If you´re inclined to game the system hard, you´ll pick the Evangelist PrC on your Exalted PrC for your Reach Cleric. Nearly the same prereqs, but twice the Divine Boon to have a slew of SLA/SU options later on.

[Klorox]

Travel and luck are two of the best domains in the game, so on that alone you should be okay.

How much melee does the party need? 18 strength is a bit much, even for a melee cleric. Likewise, if you are using a reach weapon you don't really need a 14 in con. A 16str and 12 con is sufficient, and you probably want more dex than con in the long run. You won't have much in the way of skills with 10 intelligence, but if the party has that covered then pass. If the party really needs healing get at least a 12 in cha for some extra channeling, but at this level with a wand of cure light wounds and spontaneous cure spells you could leave it at a 10.

Since you have a reach weapon and 14 dex, take combat reflexes to have an extra attack of opportunity. With the travel domain giving you extra speed, get some medium armor to help your AC.

The party is four members before I joined. One melee, one ranged, an oracle and an alchemist.

[Klorox]

@Klorox:

Don´t use Aasimar for this. To make the most out of your reach, you want to buy a couple of potions of Enlarge Person and those don´t work on Aasimar (They´re Native Outsiders, not Humanoids).

You should also consider aiming for a fast entry into the Exalted PrC (Inner Sea Gods), so as to gain a third domain at around level 11. The requirements hurt but going with Half Elf lessens the pain a bit.

Some advise: The classic Reach Cleric is a functional build but until reaching the endgame levels, it simply is outperformed by the Warpriest class in every way. Once the martial classes start to shift into high gear, poking stuff with a longspear is less and less appealing and efficient. At least consider a one-level dip into Warpriest for the free proficiencies and Weapon Focus feat, so you can wield something decent.

Edit: If you´re inclined to game the system hard, you´ll pick the Evangelist PrC on your Exalted PrC for your Reach Cleric. Nearly the same prereqs, but twice the Divine Boon to have a slew of SLA/SU options later on.

I have to be aasimar for party reasons.

Am I better off making some other kind of melee cleric since the potions you suggest are impossible to use?

[arkangel111]

If PoW is ok with your DM you'd probably be better off with an initiator. I have a Dervish Defender Warder and swapped one of my disciplines with Silver Crane. Technically Unlimited healing if your DM is ok with cheese and even if not it easily takes care of your in combat healing with up to 3 combat heals (at level 8) for 1d6, 2d6+IM, and a big heal for 4d6+normal dmg. The best part of this is all of the heals are at range and all of them are while you do whatever it is you wanna do in melee, and each of these can be done multiple times if you refresh maneuvers and they are all refreshed each combat.

If your DM isn't ok with cheese use a wand for out of combat heals, lets face it you were gonna do this even with your cleric.

[Geddy2112]

The party is four members before I joined. One melee, one ranged, an oracle and an alchemist.

You have an alchemist and an oracle and the party is lacking for healing? Did the oracle take the inflict wounds tree? Either should be fine with a wand of CLW.
With your party makeup, I would go less for sheer damage and more for tanking and damage when you can get it. The spear and combat reflexes gives you utility and protects the party, but you should be casting in fights more than swinging. At higher levels, the weapon is really just for show and utility. You can buff up and go combat heavy if you really need, as well as juice your AC. I would probably boost your dex to 16 for more AC and AoO's, you can suffice with 14/16 strength. Keep the 14 in con so you can tank and not be the one that needs healing.

[Red Fel]

@Klorox:

Don´t use Aasimar for this. To make the most out of your reach, you want to buy a couple of potions of Enlarge Person and those don´t work on Aasimar (They´re Native Outsiders, not Humanoids).

To be fair, the Scion of Humanity trait fixes that, by letting you count as both Outsider (Native) and Humanoid (Human). On the other hand, counting as a Humanoid for beneficial effects (such as prereqs or buffs) has the unfortunate side effect of counting as a Humanoid for negative effects (such as Charm Person).

[Klorox]

You have an alchemist and an oracle and the party is lacking for healing? Did the oracle take the inflict wounds tree? Either should be fine with a wand of CLW.
With your party makeup, I would go less for sheer damage and more for tanking and damage when you can get it. The spear and combat reflexes gives you utility and protects the party, but you should be casting in fights more than swinging. At higher levels, the weapon is really just for show and utility. You can buff up and go combat heavy if you really need, as well as juice your AC. I would probably boost your dex to 16 for more AC and AoO's, you can suffice with 14/16 strength. Keep the 14 in con so you can tank and not be the one that needs healing.

To be honest, I don't know enough about pathfinder to know what alchemists and oracles even do. I was guessing alchemists made bombs and stuff and oracles were similar to diviners with a little healing.

If a cleric isn't what helps this party most, should I opt for a paladin instead? It could be a character with a similar feel but a bit more martially inclined.

I was told the only way I could play something other than an aasimar is if I were a wizard.

The people I'm playing with and the campaign world are all new to me.

FYI: I'm not looking for some über ROFLSTOMP character, I just want a guy who is going to hold his own, fill a niche in the party, and not be a total gimp (I like to contribute when I play).

I was thinking about a wizard, but with only one frontline guy (he's a barbarian, I think), I don't want the team to be short in that area.

[Peat]

It's not that Reach Cleric is a bad idea, it's just questionable how on earth they need more healing with a Oracle and an Alchemist. Are they expecting in combat healing?

Still, if they want healing and combat, a Reach Cleric will do. Plenty of other things that could do the trick, but I doubt you'd regret the choice.

[Klorox]

It's not that Reach Cleric is a bad idea, it's just questionable how on earth they need more healing with a Oracle and an Alchemist. Are they expecting in combat healing?

Still, if they want healing and combat, a Reach Cleric will do. Plenty of other things that could do the trick, but I doubt you'd regret the choice.

I believe I must have written my initial post hastily.

It was my impression that they'd need healing. I was pretty sure they'd need a front liner.

I was told what the characters were before I met these guys. Perhaps the healing aspect is fine in the party.

[Geddy2112]

To be honest, I don't know enough about pathfinder to know what alchemists and oracles even do. I was guessing alchemists made bombs and stuff and oracles were similar to diviners with a little healing.

If a cleric isn't what helps this party most, should I opt for a paladin instead? It could be a character with a similar feel but a bit more martially inclined.

I was told the only way I could play something other than an aasimar is if I were a wizard.

The people I'm playing with and the campaign world are all new to me.

FYI: I'm not looking for some über ROFLSTOMP character, I just want a guy who is going to hold his own, fill a niche in the party, and not be a total gimp (I like to contribute when I play).

I was thinking about a wizard, but with only one frontline guy (he's a barbarian, I think), I don't want the team to be short in that area.

Oracles are to Clerics what Sorcerers are to wizards. A Charisma based divine caster with a few spells they can fire at will, and a sorcerer bloodline called a mystery. Alchemists are usually either bombers or Jeckle/Hyde beatstick monsters with some support magic and rouge like skills. Unless they take a certain discovery, alchemists can't give others the benefits of their extracts(spells).

Clerics are incredibly versatile- you can round out the casting the oracle does not have(they might be a blaster, or debuffer, so you could buff, summon, etc) and plenty functional as a frontline melee. Healing is not something explicitly needed, and being a cleric you have a TON of healing if needed, without preparing a single heal spell. Prepare your buffs/debuffs/summons/whatever and just dump out those spells for heals if needed in a pinch. Prepare utility spells as needed.

Your party has no hard arcane caster(alchemist is arcane but it is not the same) so wizard would also round out, but wizards don't really have many great melee builds. As is, you will be fine and able to contribute to just about anything except skillmonkeying. A paladin can make a better tank and slightly better melee, but clerics can do just as well and arguably better being full casters.

[Klorox]

Oracles are to Clerics what Sorcerers are to wizards. A Charisma based divine caster with a few spells they can fire at will, and a sorcerer bloodline called a mystery. Alchemists are usually either bombers or Jeckle/Hyde beatstick monsters with some support magic and rouge like skills. Unless they take a certain discovery, alchemists can't give others the benefits of their extracts(spells).

Clerics are incredibly versatile- you can round out the casting the oracle does not have(they might be a blaster, or debuffer, so you could buff, summon, etc) and plenty functional as a frontline melee. Healing is not something explicitly needed, and being a cleric you have a TON of healing if needed, without preparing a single heal spell. Prepare your buffs/debuffs/summons/whatever and just dump out those spells for heals if needed in a pinch. Prepare utility spells as needed.

Your party has no hard arcane caster(alchemist is arcane but it is not the same) so wizard would also round out, but wizards don't really have many great melee builds. As is, you will be fine and able to contribute to just about anything except skillmonkeying. A paladin can make a better tank and slightly better melee, but clerics can do just as well and arguably better being full casters.

Thank you so much for clearing that up.

I guess my choices are a) melee cleric or b) wizard (I have a view of wizards similar to Treantmonk with his god wizards).

Either fills a role. I guess it's personal preference.

[Florian]

Thank you so much for clearing that up.

I guess my choices are a) melee cleric or b) wizard (I have a view of wizards similar to Treantmonk with his god wizards).

Either fills a role. I guess it's personal preference.

I´d check with the GM about the GOD Wizard first. Playing a wizard this way alters the flow of the game and also complicates stuff a bit and that level of complication is not something every gm is happy to handle.

As you don´t know the group and their style, there´re some "safe" classes where you can always find ways to contribute in any situation:
- Magus and Warpriests are both "gish" classes that can fight and cast equally well. The Hexcrafter Magus has enough options that you can do something meaningful every round.
- Skald and Mesmerist are both great "faces" and good buffers/debuffers
(all of those are 3/4 BAB and 6th level spell casters)

As for the full casters:
- Arcanist (Brown Fur Transmuter) is a nice arcane buffer and a good replacement for a regular wizard
- Shaman can be build similiar to a reach cleric (and has the same spell list) but has the added option to use Hexes. Battle Spirit actually sound like what you look for here.

[Seward]

An Oracle is to a Cleric what a Sorcerer is to a Wizard. Find out his spell selection and his mysteries

An Oracle can be configured as a melee oriented character, with the usual melee cleric buff spells and mysteries that support this. Plays more like a paladin who buffs himself a lot out of combat. If they did this, they might want somebody who has some burst healing (cleric channeling and spont casting of cures is enough, you can still build the rest of your cleric however you want).

A pathfinder Paladin, by the way, is a tank with good saves and immunities who can heal himself while also doing a full attack, making it an extremely durable melee combatant, but isn't a divine caster any more than a Ranger is a Druidic divine caster. A melee oriented cleric is different (you need to buff a lot more before combat to be as effective so don't do as well at melee in reactive situations, but have a lot more in the way of raw spellpower and can reshuffle a lot of what they can do with every morning prayer for prep spells).

An Oracle can be configured as a healbot, (life oracles are actually superior to clerics in this arena if they take channeling and life link). If he's done that, just make a straight up melee or bring in a full arcane caster.

An Oracle can also be configured as a divine caster generalist, providing an interesting mix of buffs and debuffs with mysteries that go well beyond what a cleric can usually do with domains. Find out if he's designed with a secondary "attack with spells" or "attack with melee" approach if you want to know if the party needs more boom (wizard) or hacking (melee).

The alchemist also goes two major directions.

1. Melee brute, using mutagens and spells (formulas) to fight - usually with claws, teeth, tentacles etc.
2. Ranged Combatant, focusing on the bomb abilities.

If you have #1, the party likely doesn't need another melee, it needs more offensive spellpower, especially if the oracle focused on melee or healbot.

If you have #2, the party might need more melee, especially if the Oracle focused on divine caster or spellcasting.

Oracles usually have "face" skills covered decently and several mysteries are good at the "know it all" area, either with raw skills or powerful divination mysteries. Alchemists are an int-based class similar to wizards, they usually have spellcraft and kn skills and not much else. Between then and the barbarian (who has decent physical skills) the only real skill gaps in the party are likely on the infiltration/intrusion side, and alchemist formulas are usually pretty good for that. You can be a low skill point cleric if you want and likely be ok.

If you have no way of finding out before play what your party did, a high strength cleric with travel and luck is a pretty good way to cover all the bases. You can choose melee spell support or offensive spells based on what is needed and the class has baked-in a good chunk of burst healing should it become necessary. But if you really want to cover weaknesses you need to talk to the party about what they actually built, because both Oracle and Alchemist are "configurable" classes that can be quite different from player to player, based on build choices made, more like sorcerer than cleric, druid or wizard. Obviously since you like wizards in "batman" mode you understand the upside and downside of a full prep caster and will do fine with a cleric.