Thunderwave spell conversion from 5e to Pathfinder [completed]

[Debihuman]

I think this is as accurate a conversion of the 5e spell as I can get without becoming grossly overpowered. I used air geyser and battering blast as guides. It is more limited in damage since sonic damage is rarer than other kinds of damage (see battering blast, as that limits the damage to 5d6 and the original spell's maximum of 15d6 damage is far too powerful for a 3rd level Pathfinder spell). I'm leaving the push mechanic to not pushed away if the save is successful as that is mechanic for the original spell. Thanks for the help! This is now the updated version of the spell.

Thunderwave
School evocation; Level bloodrager 3, druid 3, magus 3, shaman 4,sorcerer/wizard 3, witch 3
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
EFFECT
Range 15-foot cone emanating from you
Target Creatures and objects up to Large size
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Reflex partial (see text); Spell Resistance yes

DESCRIPTION
You evoke a whip-crack of thunder, creating a wave of energy that can sweep aside creatures and objects it contacts.

Each creature in a 15-foot cone originating from you must make a Reflex saving throw. If a creature fails, it takes 2d6 points of sonic damage plus 1d6 points of sonic damage for every 2 caster levels (to a maximum of 5d6) and the target is pushed 15 feet away from you plus an additional 5 feet per additional caster level. If it succeeds, it takes half as much damage and is not pushed.

In addition, unsecured objects that weigh less than 50 pounds are automatically pushed 15 feet by the spell's effect, and the spell emits a thunderous boom audible within 300 feet of it.

Debby

[Sayt]

Honestly, I don't think the damage is enough for a third level Sor/Wiz spell. Air Geyser gets extra damage over it's 2d6 from falling damage, and it forces an acrobatics test or knocks enemy prone.

Sonic damage is one of the least-resisted energy types, but honestly I'd rather take Battering Blast in most situations.

Using that spell as a reference point, I think it shows your version of Thunderwave's weakness: it doesn't scale, at all. Battering Blast is relevant up through the levels. This spell becomes obsolescent quickly, unfortunately, because it's interesting conceptually, and has a nice mental image.

Here are my suggestions:

1. Give scaling damage. Perhaps d4/level, or d6/2 levels if you're worried about too much damage.
2. Use a CMB check instead of the binary 'reflex or pushed'. This keeps the sense of larger things being harder to move, but escapes the somewhat strange binary of "Not Moved At All, or moved 265 feet. This also keeps it in line with spells such as Thunderstomp (CMD at range to trip) (I think it was called, from ACG), adn battering blast.

I'll give a little more opining at a later time. I hope this has been helpful.

[Debihuman]

Both air geyser and battering blast target ONE creature, while this spell affects ALL creatures in a 15-foot cone. This is why I was concerned about the scaling damage. Clearly 5e's mechanic of scaling to 15d6 is ridiculously high. Battering blast maxes out at 5d6 but creature takes falling damage too. I decided to scale the damage after all but limit it to 5d6 points of sonic damage as that seems to be a reasonable compromise. Thanks for pointing the spell out. I'm still new to Pathfinder so all help is greatly appreciated.

Debby

[Sayt]

You're right about the broader targetting, but 15ft cone isn't a huge area, and require you to get very close.

I'd maybe let it scale up to 10d6 (At CL20), for an average of 35 damage. This is not a huge amount of damage, fireball gets this high faster, over a broader are and at a greater range, in exchange for none of Thunderwave's tactical element. (Even 15d6 averages to 52 which isn't totally massive, but is probably a little much)

Also, on reflex save Vs.Combat Maneuver, Thunderstomp also follows the use of combat maneuver checks, which I think is a better method of implementation as if gives results proportional to the target creatures ability to resist pushing, rather than their evasive ability; it puts casters and martials playing according the same rules (or at least some similar rules); and it allows the caster to increase their check through feats and magical items, and also allows for increasing defences against the spell

Anyway, just my two cents, glad I could be of help.