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2016-06-07, 10:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments V―On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index
Agreed. We don't even need the SRD. We
havehad explicitly non-theistic clerics in the comic.Assistant Treasurer of the Haley fan club
Crewman of the Bandana fan club
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2016-06-07, 11:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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2016-06-08, 12:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments V―On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index
We've had one since strip #80.
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-.____________________
./___________________()-------Ron Miel
|...___________________--------sits down
|..| |_________________()-------and starts
|..|/__________________--------singing
| ___________________()-------about gold
.
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2016-06-08, 05:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2013
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- Skyron, Andromeda
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2016-06-08, 06:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments V―On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index
DM in Mummy's Mask I, II, III | Keshkaru and Ozkrak in Extinction Curse | Marzena in Age of Worms | Elrembriel in Wrath of the Righteous | Gurmok in Nightmare in Katapesh | DM in Catacombs of Ravenloft Avatar courtesy of Neoseph7
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2016-06-08, 07:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2013
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments V―On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index
I also agree with removal.
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2016-06-08, 05:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments V―On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index
I too agree with removal.
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2016-06-09, 03:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- Oregon, USA
Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments V―On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index
OK, so it looks like....
One other person thinks the entry should mention what the post says about SRD spells being common knowledge....Characters: Items and Stats Order of the Stick Durkon's Mass Death Ward
Rich did not even know Mass Death Ward existed when he wrote the strip. He pegged it at 7th level instead of 8th.#806 09/19/2011
And six people think that entry should be removed?Characters: Items and Stats Order of the Stick Vampire Durkon Can Cast Spells
A cleric doesn't have to worship a deity to cast spells.#883 04/09/2013 FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2016-06-09, 03:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments V―On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index
Oh, thanks for that! I, too, think it'd be worthwhile to add the portion about only SRD spells being common knowledge to that entry.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2016-06-10, 06:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments V―On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index
DM in Mummy's Mask I, II, III | Keshkaru and Ozkrak in Extinction Curse | Marzena in Age of Worms | Elrembriel in Wrath of the Righteous | Gurmok in Nightmare in Katapesh | DM in Catacombs of Ravenloft Avatar courtesy of Neoseph7
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2016-06-28, 02:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- Oregon, USA
Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments V―On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index
Huh, really thought we'd have heard more about removing a quote. Oh well, no sense delaying any further!
CALLING FOR CONFIRMATION VOTE ON A QUOTE
The inclusion of the entry Vampire Durkon can Cast Spells has been challenged; on the basis that the implied explanation of "Vampire Durkon" being a deity-less cleric does not in fact apply, and the general existence of deity-less clerics has since been confirmed in the comic. This vote will determine whether it remains in the Index or not.
Since we've had confusion on this before, the vote will be for keep or remove, rather than yes or no.
- Please bold your vote, it'll make it easier for me to notice when I go through and count everything.
- The usual suggestion to avoid discussing quotes during the vote does not apply in this case.
- Per Rule F4, inclusion by vote requires a quote to have two more votes to keep than votes to remove.
Voting will be open until July 1st, 9PM EDT.
I'll get to updating the Durkon's Mass Death Ward entry to include the part about only SRD spells being common knowledge after the vote is done (so if the vote results in removal, I can make a single update of the Index)FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2016-06-28, 02:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments V―On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index
Remove
Wheeeeeeee!Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2016-06-28, 02:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments V―On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index
I think the quote should
[X] Leave
I mean Remove it.
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2016-06-28, 02:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments V―On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index
I love Rich's dripping sarcasm in that reply...
I've just gone back and forth in my own head on this three times now while typing out this reply. My initial thought was to remove it. Then as I thought about it, it occurred to me that the initial comment that spurred the beautiful use of sarcasm had as much to do with how quickly our favorite dwarf was casting spells after his transformation as it did with the fact he was casting at all.
And maybe there's some room to discuss the merits of the quote in that light, but for now I'm going to stick with my initial instinct and vote to remove - something I don't do very often, actually.John Ling
Frog God Games Lead Pathfinder Developer
Note: unless explicitly stated otherwise, opinions in my posts are my own and not those of Frog God Games.
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2016-06-28, 02:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments V―On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index
After looking at Kalmegil's posts, I think I see that the quote has its own merits. Plus I want to vote
RemainKeep. In the end, I also don't really see much of a reward to removing quotes.
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2016-06-28, 04:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments V―On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index
I vote to REMOVE it.
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2016-06-28, 04:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2008
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments V―On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index
Since we've already had a number of people supporting removal, and none asking for it to stay, doesn't that qualify it foe removal without a vote?
Anyway, since we're having one, I vote remove..
-.____________________
./___________________()-------Ron Miel
|...___________________--------sits down
|..| |_________________()-------and starts
|..|/__________________--------singing
| ___________________()-------about gold
.
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2016-06-28, 04:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments V―On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index
Last edited by Peelee; 2016-06-28 at 04:25 PM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2016-06-28, 04:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments V―On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index
I vote Remove
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2016-06-28, 04:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments V―On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index
I just feel bad voting to remove anything after what happened last week, so I'm voting
remainkeepLast edited by littlebum2002; 2016-06-28 at 04:46 PM.
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2016-06-28, 04:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments V―On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index
The conditions under which we have a vote haven't changed since you asked on the last page:And for whatever reason, there's been very little impetus for formulating removal rules....And without such rules in place (like we have for adding new quotes), there's no consensus to support fast-tracking things without a vote (like we have for adding new quotes); and I'm not comfortable with taking entries out of the Index solely on the basis of when I
get tired of waitingfeel no further discussion is forthcoming, to say nothing of the executive-decision nature my timing would fall under.
So until we have a such process in place for removals, I'm going to keep running to ensure there is actually consensus for removing an individual entry before I remove an individual entry.FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2016-06-28, 04:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments V―On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index
John Ling
Frog God Games Lead Pathfinder Developer
Note: unless explicitly stated otherwise, opinions in my posts are my own and not those of Frog God Games.
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2016-06-28, 05:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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2016-06-28, 05:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments V―On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index
Keep.
None of the reasons proposed for removal strike me as convincing. The quote clearly comports with the rules of this thread, is informative, and is non-duplicative. Its removal would lessen the index to no gain.
In fact, this strikes me as exactly the type of quote best suited to indexing. The Giant wrote a response to criticism about the comic (only part of which is based on non-theistic clerics). The underlying question may arise again in forum discussion. Why on earth would we remove it?
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2016-06-28, 05:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments V―On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index
John Ling
Frog God Games Lead Pathfinder Developer
Note: unless explicitly stated otherwise, opinions in my posts are my own and not those of Frog God Games.
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2016-06-28, 05:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments V―On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index
Because if you remove snark from the comment, his response is to invoke the 3.5 rules, which are delineated in the SRD. Even then, as previously shown, we have explicitly non-theistoc clerics casting spells in the comic. If through underlying question rises again, we can show in-comic evidence that it is allowed.
Since you claim that the quote would lessen the Index. I am forced to assume you believe the quote adds to the Index. Tell me, what does it add?Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2016-06-28, 06:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments V―On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index
Yeah, I looked, but it didn't seem to apply. It didn't match "support from less than two-thirds, but at least one-third " because ALL the discussion favoured removal. And obviously it wasn't a re-organisation.
I just assumed that you would apply the same standards for a removal vote as an inclusion one. Obviously I was mistaken..
-.____________________
./___________________()-------Ron Miel
|...___________________--------sits down
|..| |_________________()-------and starts
|..|/__________________--------singing
| ___________________()-------about gold
.
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2016-06-28, 06:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments V―On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index
I'm in favour of keep.
Because.
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2016-06-28, 06:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments V―On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index
Remove it.
Assistant Treasurer of the Haley fan club
Crewman of the Bandana fan club
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2016-06-28, 09:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments V―On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index
"If you remove what the Giant said, it's only stuff someone else said" doesn't strike me as particularly strong argument in favor removal. Not only that, your characterization of the content of the quote is wrong. The quote not only cites the SRD, it also tells us that the Giant used that portion of the SRD in plotting out Durkula's spell usage after he turned. It's also worth noting that before the Giant posted on the topic, people were disagreeing about whether or not the SRD allowed Durkula to cast spells at that time.
The non-theistic clerics present in the comic do not directly address whether Durkula should lose his spells upon awakening. To answer this question without the quote, you have to basically recreate it from scratch. And unless that's done by the Giant, it's just one forum viewpoint among many. The Giant resolved an argument using the SRD and his unique knowledge that he relied on his particular interpretation of the SRD.
A quote from the Giant saying X is not redundant with a three-point argument relying on a non-universally accepted interpretation of the SRD. It's like saying a clear statement of the Pythagorean theorem is redundant because it can be derived from other axioms and theorems.
Since you claim that the quote would lessen the Index. I am forced to assume you believe the quote adds to the Index. Tell me, what does it add?
Now how about someone state how this quote doesn't fit squarely within the thread rules. Or better yet, stop rehashing all the decisions that have already been made. It's freaking exhausting to have people repeatedly pecking away at the index. Why are people spending their time looking to remove quotes about the comic from the index?
ETA: Specifically, the SRD says vampire clerics can still cast spells. It doesn't say they retain the spells they had when they died. The Giant's post implicitly makes it clear that he is interpreting the SRD such that vampires do retain the spells they had when they died. That's information not available without the quote.Last edited by Kalmegil; 2016-06-28 at 09:54 PM.