The Index of the Giant's Comments V―On a Saner Forum, We Wouldn't Need this Index

[martianmister]

Include it.

[Ron Miel]

Does he comment anymore on this stuff?

Occasionally. I think this is his most recent comment to be included in the index.

He used to comment more often, but usually refrains from it these days.

Do we need this thread anymore?

Yes. It's very useful in discussions about the strip. People might, for example, ask whether Belkar is really Evil, or just obnoxious. It helps to be able to point to the Author's own comments. And the index helps people locate the comments quickly.

[factotum]

Yeah, the index isn't supposed to be an alert flag that the Giant has commented on something, it's supposed to be a record of those times when he *has* commented, and that job ain't going away anytime soon.

[Peelee]

About Thirden He made an effort to improve his diction over the years, and "Squeaky" is a nickname about his singing voice. Also, he's not Durkon's biological uncle.

#991

2015/06/22

The bolded, italicized, underlined passage is now available in-comic - they had no living family, Sigdi doesn't know who they were and had never seen 'em before in her life. Here's hoping that overkill on specifying the part means nobody will mistake this for me talking about the main "About Thirden" quote, and yet I still don't want to hold my breath...

[Jasdoif]

About Thirden He made an effort to improve his diction over the years, and "Squeaky" is a nickname about his singing voice. Also, he's not Durkon's biological uncle.

#991

2015/06/22

The bolded, italicized, underlined passage is now available in-comic - they had no living family, Sigdi doesn't know who they were and had never seen 'em before in her life. Here's hoping that overkill on specifying the part means nobody will mistake this for me talking about the main "About Thirden" quote, and yet I still don't want to hold my breath...

So....You're suggesting the "see also"-style quote about Thirden not being Durkon's biological uncle should be removed, then?

[Peelee]

So....You're suggesting the "see also"-style quote about Thirden not being Durkon's biological uncle should be removed, then?

Yes. The later comic makes it perfectly clear, IMO.

[2D8HP]

So....You're suggesting the "see also"-style quote about Thirden not being Durkon's biological uncle should be removed, then?

I always think you should err on the side of too many comments indexed than too few, so please keep it (and some of us [me] are forgetful of the "obvious").

[Peelee]

I always think you should err on the side of too many comments indexed than too few, so please keep it (and some of us [me] are forgetful of the "obvious").

Which is totally understandable, and an argument I'm sympathetic to. Per Rule E, though, it is redundant information.

[Ron Miel]

Keep it. One strip calls him an uncle, another strip says he's not related. Some people might be confused by the apparent contradiction. This quote helps resolve it.

[Emanick]

I’m generally in favor of inclusion, but this information is just as clearly provided by a link to newer comics that had not been published when that post was written. There’s nothing noteworthy about it besides the now-redundant information. I support deleting it.

[Throknor]

Keep it. One strip calls him an uncle, another strip says he's not related. Some people might be confused by the apparent contradiction. This quote helps resolve it.

I agree with this analysis.

Directly from rule E: The quote should only be included if it provides new information or clarity...

[Emanick]

I agree with this analysis.

Directly from rule E: The quote should only be included if it provides new information or clarity...

I’m pretty sure directly linking to a relevant strip would provide just as much clarity as referencing that quote would.

[Throknor]

I’m pretty sure directly linking to a relevant strip would provide just as much clarity as referencing that quote would.

Even so, I'm discussing the invocation of Rule E to remove the quote. By it's own standards I'm arguing it meets the 'clarify' portion to stay.

[The Linker]

The plot point about Thirden and the others not being biologically related to Durkon is such a major aspect of the story and given such focus that I definitely agree Rich's post adds no more clarity these days than the comic itself.

It's like using an interview with George Lucas as proof that Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker's father in case people missed that part in the movie, rather than using a link to the scene.

[Emanick]

Even so, I'm discussing the invocation of Rule E to remove the quote. By it's own standards I'm arguing it meets the 'clarify' portion to stay.

And I'm stating that it does not meet the "clarify" portion, any more than any other redundant information does. Why is linking to the strip(s) that make this information abundantly clear inadequate?

[Ron Miel]

The plot point about Thirden and the others not being biologically related to Durkon is such a major aspect of the story and given such focus that I definitely agree Rich's post adds no more clarity these days than the comic itself.

It's like using an interview with George Lucas as proof that Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker's father in case people missed that part in the movie, rather than using a link to the scene.

"Why is Thirden called Uncle even though he's not a relative?"


Answer that question with information in the comic.

[Peelee]

"Why is Thirden called Uncle even though he's not a relative?"


Answer that question with information in the comic.

Can do. Uncly Myrtok, Eugene's adventuring buddy. Clearly family friends being honorary aunts and uncles exists in OotS just as it exists in a myriad of real-world cultures.

Anything else I can do for ya?

ETA: Bonus online comic. I'm sure Aunt Laurin would agree.

Double ETA: As would O-Chul. This is starting to get downright common.

[Ron Miel]

In the first place, several of those links are broken.

Secondly, it doesn't answer the question. Why is Lauren called Aunt when she's not a relative?

[Peelee]

In the first place, several of those links are broken.

Secondly, it doesn't answer the question. Why is Lauren called Aunt when she's not a relative?

They all work fine in my end. Also, if common human interaction is confusing, then literally anyone can help explain. Like that thread on why Roy was upset his dad missed his game.

[Ron Miel]

They all work fine in my end. .

One points to the order page for Start Of Darkness, the other to How The Paladin Got His Scar. Are you saying that's deliberate? The adverts ARE your cite? Or the books are your cite? In the second case, it's not information within the online comic which you can show someone asking the question. It doesn't count.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Why is Lauren called Aunt when she's not a relative?

aunt
/ant,änt/
noun
noun: aunt; plural noun: aunts
the sister of one's father or mother or the wife of one's uncle.
INFORMAL
an unrelated older woman friend, especially of a child.

Emphasis mine.

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

One points to the order page for Start Of Darkness, the other to How The Paladin Got His Scar. Are you saying that's deliberate? The adverts ARE your cite? Or the books are your cite?

The books. Until they become freely available online, that's the best link you're going to get to them. The specifics I've directly called out - Uncle Myrtok and Aunti O.

And, at the risk of being practically the definition of tautological, questions that only the comic or author can answer can only be answered by the comic or author, but questions that anyone can answer can be answered by anyone.

[Lissou]

I'd be fine with the "See also" linking to both the quote and the comic. It's redundant, but then again I thought people thinking all these obviously unrelated dwarves were related to Durkon was preposterous and yet people still wondered in the first place, so knowing they're unrelated may not help without the quote, or the comic would have been explanation enough in the very first place (what with all the different skin tones and hair colors and everything).

[Syncrogti]

Occasionally. I think this is his most recent comment to be included in the index.

He used to comment more often, but usually refrains from it these days.



Yes. It's very useful in discussions about the strip. People might, for example, ask whether Belkar is really Evil, or just obnoxious. It helps to be able to point to the Author's own comments. And the index helps people locate the comments quickly.

Understood, thank you and others for the responses.

[Jasdoif]

The books. Until they become freely available online, that's the best link you're going to get to them.

Right; the best link you're going to get is inadequate.

No, seriously. The whole point of the redundancy guideline is that we're not intending to have multiple posts in the Index that say the exact same thing; trying to use it to excise a post because of a source we couldn't cite (like comics that aren't legally accessible for free) strikes me as silly. Actually, wait...this would be a case of "we're not talking about this, and we can't tell you why we're not talking about this"; so I am revising my assessment to "asinine".

Now, if you want to talk about amending the rules to extend to posts that have become redundant with freely available online comic strips, that's another matter entirely....

[Peelee]

Right; the best link you're going to get is inadequate.

The best link to the books. There was a link to the online comic, with Nale talking to Aunt Lauren.

Also, I assume the rule already extends to posts that have become redundant with the online strip. There is precedent, after all. Whether or not people agree that the information is redundant is, of course, a matter of opinion.

Lastly, since the rules pretty much just cover inclusion, there's no prohibition against you fully rejecting an exclusion, if you so wish.

[Jasdoif]

Lastly, since the rules pretty much just cover inclusion, there's no prohibition against you fully rejecting an exclusion, if you so wish.

Aside from my personal disinclination to deliberately waste everyone's time in such a fashion....As with any other curator of a curated thread, I am expressly prohibited from making an executive decision of that sort.

[Peelee]

Aside from my personal disinclination to deliberately waste everyone's time in such a fashion....As with any other curator of a curated thread, I am expressly prohibited from making an executive decision of that sort.

My bad, then. I just thought you felt significantly more put off by this than any other motion I've made, so I wanted to try to find all options for smoothing things over.

[Gwynfrid]

Quoting books that aren't available online was a mistaken argument, but Peelee's broader point remains: The quote about Thirden not being a biological uncle is made redundant by the unambiguous text in #1128. We did remove quotes that became redundant with the comic before, as a de-cluttering step, which is the intention of Rule E. Therefore, I second Peelee's motion.

[Ron Miel]

And I still disagree.

The point is, one online strip says Thirden is Durkon's uncle, another online strip says they are not related. This apparent contradiction has confused at least one person. Remember, not all readers are native English speakers. They can miss subtleties of language such as the use of Uncle as meaning "family friend."

Without the Giant's comment, we could point to the dictionary, and say that this is probably what he meant. And that would be our guess, quite likely, but not certain. The Giant's own comment is definitive.

Keep it.