Alternate Magic Systems for 3.5 D&D, OGL, and D20 rules

[petermcleod117]

Hey, whoever sees this. This is my first time posting to this forum (as opposed to commenting on someone else's post), so I'm not really sure what I'm doing, but here we go.

I'm not really a big fan of the vancian magic system. While it has a lot of options to it, my major problem with it is that it doesn't really feel like a system of magic that people would actually believe in. It feels really gamey, for lack of a better word. I have a similar problem with Psionics and other systems that use magic points (with the exception of Incarnum, see below). Sure, the power reflect certain belief systems, but the actual mechanics (be it spell slots or point reservoirs) don't feel right.

That being said, in my days of scouring drivethrurpg.com and similar sites, I have discovered a number of alternate systems whose mechanics just make sense with the system they are attempting to represent.

I will list the ones I have encountered now below, but I would really appreciate it if I could be directed to other, similar systems:
(for the purposes of this list, I am only counting those systems which are playable and whose magic system can be used to build more than one base class, at least in theory. Thus, the Truenamer from the Tome of Magic and the Mountebank from the Dragon Magazine Compendium are both eliminated).

Starting with the official systems, we have:
-Incarnum <Magic of Incarnum> Although it uses a point system, that system is not a major part of the conceit of the system, and it actually has a pretty decent explanation.
-Pact Magic <Tome of Magic> I think most people will agree that this system is both mechanically solid and has a nice flair to it. If only there was more than one base class associated with it
-Shadow Magic <Tome of Magic> Kinda underpowered, but it is at least more functional than the default truenamer, and it has decent fluff as well.
-Blade Magic <Tome of Battle> A bit convoluted, and perhaps not as interesting as, say, Incarnum in terms of fluff, but it's both mechanically feasible and fits with it's fluff.
-Invocations <Complete Arcane and Dragon Magic> Functional and has decent fluff

Now for official OGL releases, we have:
-Theurgy <Medieval Player's Guide> The Medieval Player's Guide put out a surprising amount of new magic systems for a campaign supplement, and this is by far the most unique, interesting, and balanced of them. To learn a new spell, one must complete an expensive ritual. However, once the ritual is complete, you have the spell permanently as a spell-like ability. It's a bit more complicated than that, and has a bunch of really nice fluff. I'd check it out if you want to play a wizard archetype but don't want to use the vancian system.
-Astrology <Medieval Player's Guide> This is a skill based system which can be enhanced by specific feats. While in the case of Truenaming this was unfeasible, this system pulls it off gracefully by making it only useful for divination, and then only in very specific circumstances. So it can be really powerful if a character purposely invests a lot of skill points into it, but not game-breaking.
-Astral Charms <Medieval Player's Guide> This is the weakest of the systems produced in the Medieval Player's Guide. This is actually because the fluff for it (which happens to be pretty good) also limits it considerably. What's interesting about it is that it consists of a single feat which can be taken multiple times, each time granting you access to a new spell in the form of a charm you can craft at minimal expense (no XP or GP cost, as the charm can be made out of essentially useless material). Where it falls down is in how this is limited: the charms can only be crafted at certain times, and 8th and 9th level charms can only be made once per year.
-Alchemy <Medieval Player's Guide> Allows you to do some moderately cool stuff with materials, but not really useful otherwise. Supposed to be a supplemental system to Astral Charms and Astrology.
-Folk Charms <Medieval Player's Guide> Fairly decent feat-based system involving creating small, inexpensive magic items which grant subtle benefits to those who wield them. Not recommended for a system which treats attaining immortality as something rare, as a human character can use this system to gain immortality at first level (though he becomes thoroughly useless if he does so ). Also not recommended for those who like their magic loud and flashy. It is solid mechanically nonetheless, and it's fluff is interesting.
-Charisms <Medieval Player's Guide> Basically Saint Powers. Think Exalted feats from the book of exalted deeds, but much more powerful. They also have the nice touch of NOT punishing non-saint characters for less than saintly behavior, while still enforcing such restriction on the saint. As I understand it, that was a real problem with much of the content of the book of exalted deeds.
-Psychic Power <The Psychic's Handbook> It's like the Psion, but instead of using power points, it uses nonlethal damage. This fits far better with the idea that mental powers involve powerful acts of will to execute. It is also really nice for low magic systems, and could perhaps be used alongside Astral Charms to produce an appropriate low magic setting.
-Pact Magic (Improved) <Secrets of Pact Magic and Villains of Pact Magic> If you liked the Binder from the Tome of Magic, this system is for you. It basically takes that system and expands upon it until it effectively produces it's own campaign setting from the shear amount of rules and fluff involved. Vestiges (now called Spirits) come in multiple varieties, and scale a little better than the original, and they actually produce multiple base classes devoted both to Pact Magic and those who might oppose it. Finally, even if you don't want to fully integrate the system into your campaign, it has special rules for how normal spellcasters and even non-casters can use the system. It is extremely thorough and well-made. If you play pathfinder, there is an adaptation of it by the same company called the Grimoire of Lost Souls.

And finally, homebrew systems
Xenotheurgy <Realms of Chaos, Xenotheurgy-Far-Realms-magic-system on this site > If you want magic to be a curse with side effects, you read HP Lovecraft, and you like both warlock and pact magic fluff, this is the system for you.
Truenaming (Improved) <Kelus, The-Way-Words-Work-(or-Truenaming-that-doesn-t-make-me-cry-myself-to-sleep-at-night) on this site > If you REALLY liked the fluff for the truenamer in the Tome of Magic, but were disappointed with the lackluster execution of said fluff, this is the system for you.
Bending <Avatar the Last Airbender D20> this system is basically a low-level version of the spell seeds from the Epic Level Handbook.



That's what I have. Please tell me if you know of any other good ones.

[Mehangel]

Allow me to introduce you to Spheres of Power, which while written for Pathfinder, can easily be backported to D&D 3.5. A wiki also exists for easy access.

[petermcleod117]

Thanks, I will check it out. Reading the reviews right now.

[mabriss lethe]

For the sake of completeness, you should probably include Psionics and the variants from Unearthed Arcana.

[EldritchWeaver]

There is also Elements of Magic (Revised). But I prefer Spheres of Power myself. Also, on the mentioned wiki there are other casting systems as well.

[Feantar]

There's incantations from the SRD. Always found those interesting, and they even have a section on how to make new ones. Essentially a skills based magic system.

[petermcleod117]

For the sake of completeness, you should probably include Psionics and the variants from Unearthed Arcana.

No, I am excluding those specifically, along with the Vancian system, for having mechanics that don't really match the fluff.
Psionics is a good system, and it has interesting fluff, but those two parts don't really work well together. And I never really liked the idea of spell points in general.
Thus, along with the vancian system, I am not including it.

[petermcleod117]

There is also Elements of Magic (Revised). But I prefer Spheres of Power myself. Also, on the mentioned wiki there are other casting systems as well.

Yeah, but aside from the pact magic one, all of them appear to be pathfinder. I mostly stick to the OGL stuff.
If there was a good OGL adaptation of those systems, I would certainly use it.

[stack]

Yeah, but aside from the pact magic one, all of them appear to be pathfinder. I mostly stick to the OGL stuff.
If there was a good OGL adaptation of those systems, I would certainly use it.

Not sure what you mean. All pathfinder mechanics, 1pp and 3pp, are OGL. They have to be as they are based on 3.5 OGL material.

[petermcleod117]

There's incantations from the SRD. Always found those interesting, and they even have a section on how to make new ones. Essentially a skills based magic system.

I do actually like the incantations a lot. However, you can't really build a class around them. At least as far as I am aware.
I could include them on the list above, or I could put up a separate post about magic systems which are unrelated to character class (such as the brand system from Spellslinger, and the Piety system from Mythic Vistas: Testament). Such a post would undoubtedly contain much of the same information as that which is presented here, as a great deal of Green Ronin's magic systems happen to be feat based, and thus available to non-spellcasters. Also because Secrets of Pact Magic has a mechanic for non-pactbinders to gain the ability to use pact magic, and the Theurge also is available to particular rich characters of any level.

Unrelated, but something cool to note, is that the Theurge from the Medieval Player's Guide and all the pact-magic classes from Secrets of Pact Magic have essentially the same fluff. So if you like either of their fluff content, but didn't like it's crunch, I'd look at the other one to see if it fits your fancy.

[thorr-kan]

There's True Sorcery, from Green Ronin's book of the same name. It is a feat and skill based magic system originally created in their Black Company Campaign Setting.

It seems it requires *a lot* of DM and player work, but it's something unlike anything else I've read.

[thorr-kan]

I do actually like the incantations a lot. However, you can't really build a class around them. At least as far as I am aware.

Mostly correct.

However, The Game Mechanics offered a d20 Modern advanced class, The Ritualist, that focused on on lesser invocations and invocations in Modern Magic, Volume 1. As an advanced class, it can be reached by 4th level without any cheese.

It was followed by a d20 Modern prestige class, the Dark Sage in Modern Player's Companion, Volume 2, that doubled down on incantation usage. It can be taken at 10th level without cheese.

ETA: Source of Dark Sage prestige class.

[petermcleod117]

There's True Sorcery, from Green Ronin's book of the same name. It is a feat and skill based magic system originally created in their Black Company Campaign Setting.

It seems it requires *a lot* of DM and player work, but it's something unlike anything else I've read.

Green Ronin seems to have a lot of good alternate systems going for them. I'm checking the manual out right now.

[petermcleod117]

Mostly correct.

However, The Game Mechanics offered a d20 Modern advanced class, The Ritualist, that focused on on lesser invocations and invocations in Modern Magic, Volume 1. As an advanced class, it can be reached by 4th level without any cheese.

It was followed by a d20 Modern prestige class, the Dark Sage, that doubled down on incantation usage. It can be taken at 10th level without cheese.

Cool, I'll check it out!

[thorr-kan]

It occurs to me that a pretty good set of "low magic" exists with just feats available from WotC's books and some Dragon Magazine content. You've got:
ritual feats
divine feats
domain feats
reserve feats
feats that grant SLAs
feats that grant class abilities like psionics, 0-level spells, soulmelds, martial stances, binding, truenaming, etc.
devil-touched feats
abyssal feats
aberrant feats

You get the idea. In a game without spellcasting classes or limited spellcasting classes, there is still plenty to provide *something* to PCs and NPCs.

[thorr-kan]

Further possibilities:

From Zombie Sky Press, there's Incantations from the Other Side and Incantations in Theory and Practice.

Again from The Game Mechanics, Voudon Magic in Modern Magic, Volume 2. It uses a combination of incantations and spells for spellcasters from that tradition.

From Sword and Sorcery's Ravenloft 3.5 supplement, Dark Tales and Disturbing Legends, there is the Voodan, another reskinning of Vodoun.

[petermcleod117]

Further possibilities:

From Zombie Sky Press, there's Incantations from the Other Side and Incantations in Theory and Practice.

Again from The Game Mechanics, Voudon Magic in Modern Magic, Volume 2. It uses a combination of incantations and spells for spellcasters from that tradition.

From Sword and Sorcery's Ravenloft 3.5 supplement, Dark Tales and Disturbing Legends, there is the Voodan, another reskinning of Vodoun.

Cool, I will check these out as well.

I mentioned in my "Anyone Can Be A Sorcerer" post that I was considering carrying the rune rituals from 2e Vikings Campaign Sourcebook as feats. What do you think? Would that be viable in 3.5 as a magic system?

[thorr-kan]

Cool, I will check these out as well.

I mentioned in my "Anyone Can Be A Sorcerer" post that I was considering carrying the rune rituals from 2e Vikings Campaign Sourcebook as feats. What do you think? Would that be viable in 3.5 as a magic system?

Were you thinking as rituals like incantations, or making each of them a feat?

[petermcleod117]

Were you thinking as rituals like incantations, or making each of them a feat?

I was thinking of making each of them a feat, as that seems to have been the intent of the original Runecaster character class. The mechanics are remarkably similar, so much so that I am surprised it has not already been adapted (I have checked)

[thorr-kan]

I was thinking of making each of them a feat, as that seems to have been the intent of the original Runecaster character class. The mechanics are remarkably similar, so much so that I am surprised it has not already been adapted (I have checked)

That might work, though it means no one will really ever master runes. There are a lot of them, after all.

There are even more if you include the runes from the Forgotten Realms Giantcraft accessory.

[petermcleod117]

That might work, though it means no one will really ever master runes. There are a lot of them, after all.

There are even more if you include the runes from the Forgotten Realms Giantcraft accessory.

True. But I don't think they were meant to be mastered in their entirety. The mechanics and flavor text suggest as much/

I did not know about the Giantcraft accessory. I'll check it out to see if it is compatible with the others. If so, I might begin converting them and putting the resulting feats on a separate post.

[Morcleon]

On homebrew systems, we also have these two!

Tome of Radiance: Magical girls! Illuminations use a system of Foundation, Shape, and Secondary components to create your own personalized magical effects. These are also broken up in to Blasts, Companions, Barriers, and Surges, each with their own types of effects.

Gramarie: Magitech! A system where each "spell" is relatively useless on its own, but in conjunction with others, can create wonders only dreamed about. It's essentially a Complete Engineering sourcebook.

[EldritchWeaver]

True. But I don't think they were meant to be mastered in their entirety. The mechanics and flavor text suggest as much

Depending on the number of available feats, people might never be able to afford more than 3 feats over their entire career. That makes the spellcasting rare in the number of effects, anyone could have (even PC parties, where a large number of magic users could aggregate), and also makes looking for someone being able to cast a certain rune an issue. Not my cup of tea at least.

[Manyasone]

Dreamscarred Press made the "tome of channeling" in the 3.5 days...pretty nifty system

[petermcleod117]

On homebrew systems, we also have these two!

Tome of Radiance: Magical girls! Illuminations use a system of Foundation, Shape, and Secondary components to create your own personalized magical effects. These are also broken up in to Blasts, Companions, Barriers, and Surges, each with their own types of effects.

Gramarie: Magitech! A system where each "spell" is relatively useless on its own, but in conjunction with others, can create wonders only dreamed about. It's essentially a Complete Engineering sourcebook.

for the first: interesting. anime magic. I'll take a look.
come to think of it, there was an interesting "magic" system in D20 Mecha, involving Mecha points to essentially "buy" new features for a mecha.

for the second: magitech has always interested me, so I'll give it a look. It sounds similar to a spell seed system.

[petermcleod117]

Depending on the number of available feats, people might never be able to afford more than 3 feats over their entire career. That makes the spellcasting rare in the number of effects, anyone could have (even PC parties, where a large number of magic users could aggregate), and also makes looking for someone being able to cast a certain rune an issue. Not my cup of tea at least.

Unless I have been using it wrong this whole time, a human character should gain 8 feats over the course of his career, from 1st level to 20th. Am I reading this wrong?

It does bring up an issue with the Astral Charms, though. So as an addendum, rather than starting at level 0, Astral Charm feats should start at level 1, so that a character who focuses on those feats can get an 8th level spell by 18th level.

On the other hand, to make up for a lack of spellcasters, the rate at which characters gain feats could be increased. Perhaps they gain a feat every other level?

I dunno, I'm just brainstorming here.

[EldritchWeaver]

Unless I have been using it wrong this whole time, a human character should gain 8 feats over the course of his career, from 1st level to 20th. Am I reading this wrong?

Do you really assume that people will use all their feats for these magic feats?

[petermcleod117]

Dreamscarred Press made the "tome of channeling" in the 3.5 days...pretty nifty system

Is it anything like pact magic? I'll check it out

[Manyasone]

Is it anything like pact magic? I'll check it out

No. Nothing like pact magic. But it has some nice things. It a sort of skill check based system. Also per minute based. But not disabling so

[petermcleod117]

Do you really assume that people will use all their feats for these magic feats?

Probably. Some of them are REALLY powerful when used correctly. Charisms in particular, especially for healing. Astral Charm feats could be used to create a veritable arsenal of cheap magic missiles (allowing the character to launch one per round for as many rounds as they made charms for as a wizard of their character level) which they can re-stock twice per day provided they have sufficient resources, folk charms provide static buffs and can be similarly mass-produced, and Pact Magic is so versatile and interesting that even partial access to it is rewarding. Sure, the average player isn't likely to stock up on magic feats, but taking one or two when offered is almost certain, especially in an otherwise low-magic campaign where healing spells and magical artillery are few and far between.