Which Franchise has the most Diversity?

[ThinkMinty]

And?

Tolkien's Elves are not Chaotic Evil, they are Neutral Evil.

...what did I just say?

Context and source material provided to you clearly state that the term "Always Chaotic Evil" refers to the tendency to depict entire fictional races as uniformly wicked. Your repeated pedantry over D&D alignment just keeps getting more disingenuous and less humorous each time you pull it.

[Avilan the Grey]

...what did I just say?

Context and source material provided to you clearly state that the term "Always Chaotic Evil" refers to the tendency to depict entire fictional races as uniformly wicked. Your repeated pedantry over D&D alignment just keeps getting more disingenuous and less humorous each time you pull it.

I get that.
I also pointed out that actually they are Neutral Evil.

Still not sure why you had to argue your point about this at all?

[Psyren]

And here is where you lose me completely. I find this simply disrespectful to the setting, the author and the culture that produced both.
We all know the (often very valid) criticism of whitewashing. How is this any different?

Because one increases minority representation while the other continues a marginalizing status quo.

We don't have to look far to see an analogy - using the logic you posted above, adding Tauriel to the Hobbit was "disrespectful to the setting, author, and culture that produced it", as she wasn't present in the book. Now, even if I shared this viewpoint (I don't), I can point out the benefits to having done so, and weigh them; in my mind, having more capable female roles in the story added more good than was lost by altering the source work.

Similarly, "the setting, author and culture" that produced A New Hope would never have had a Star Wars film wth Finn and Rey as primary protagonists. The Force Awakens did so, and I would argue that as a society we are enriched for them having done so.

[ThinkMinty]

I get that.
I also pointed out that actually they are Neutral Evil.

Still not sure why you had to argue your point about this at all?

So they're Neutral Evil or what-the-****-ever. My point is I don't like the whole "Tribe X is inherently evil, so commit war crimes on them." thing. It's the kind of bullplops they put in war propaganda, it feels gross in my fantasy literature, which is something for escaping from reality's ****tiness.

[Sapphire Guard]

I don't remember any war crimes against orcs in Hobbit or LOTR. The party always takes the first chance they have to run if they can, and the rest of the confrontations are on battlefields against armed opponents.

Anyway, I think it might be an idea to have this discussion in a separate thread, and leave here for naming diverse franchises.

[Liquor Box]

It's not that I can't enjoy morally binary conflict, I just don't like the idea that an entire race of sapients is just irredeemable scum. It reeks of the kind of editorial grossness Norman Spinrad deconstructs in The Iron Dream.

Orcs aren't a separate race from humans, they are a separate species. I think that is important distinction given that your point seems to be that the evilness of orcs hints at a commentary of racism in the real world. Apologies if I misunderstood the point you were making.

[ThinkMinty]

Orcs aren't a separate race from humans, they are a separate species. I think that is important distinction given that your point seems to be that the evilness of orcs hints at a commentary of racism in the real world. Apologies if I misunderstood the point you were making.

Fantastic Racism and/or speciesism, whatever. It's a distinction without a difference.

[Liquor Box]

Fantastic Racism and/or speciesism, whatever. It's a distinction without a difference.

You may think it makes no difference. But the distinction is still important because others may see things differently. For example, from the trope page you linked:

... this trope can lead to a Broken Aesop if there are in fact good in-universe reasons to discriminate against a certain type of creature (say, because they need to eat other sentient beings in order to survive, or they genuinely are Always Chaotic Evil apart from the odd angsty heroic one)

[BiblioRook]

I was going to mention this anyways, but especially since LotRs and fantasy racism is being talked about, but Discworld.

Now admittedly I haven't personally tried to plum the extent of it, I just happen to be reading/rereading the books right now so it's just really on my mind, it would be hard to argue that Discworld had a pretty big diversity focus. In fact in some cases Pratchett might even be considered to be beating you in the head with it (not that I mind, I still enjoy it immensely).
There's the usually stuff with gender and religion though I don't think he touches on sexuality much if at all (correct me if I'm wrong), but boy is the big one is racism. Er, Fantasy racism at least (honestly ethnicity, while certainly there, is another thing not really pulled out and focused on much I think, or at least not that I noticed). I mean, just with Trolls. In the beginning of the series Trolls were still considered the generic monster fantasy trope (or at least a parody of it, much like the rest of the series), but as the series when on they got more and more accepted as people until it got to the point where it would be unthinkable to think of them as anything but. Then with Trolls settled they moved on to other things like Golems and (towards the very end) Goblins. Hell, just look no further then the City Watch and it's policy of accepting just about anyone or anything into their ranks.

[Eldan]

There's a bit on Racism. The entire book Jingo, for one. It's about a war between Morpork (Britain-ish city state) and Klatch (most often generic fantasy Middle East, here probably the Ottoman Empire), loosely based on Ferdinandea. Plenty of racism in it. There's also Interesting Times, which is an uncomfortably racist book. Not much on sexuality, Pratchett doesn't go into it much, but he did have one couple of confirmed Lesbians.

[Vinyadan]

Written by an English professor of English Lit, influenced by many things, of which Finnish mythology is a present-but-not-primary factor. I don't know if that somehow makes it a primarily Finnish and therefore somehow above reproach product.

Have you ever heard "Don't Be Mean" by Sonata Arctica? It is reproachable because it's Finnish and falls short of expectations.

Anyway, are Power Rangers diverse or racist? I have seen people go internet ballistic about the Olympic Rings formation they display.

[hamishspence]

There's a bit on Racism. The entire book Jingo, for one. It's about a war between Morpork (Britain-ish city state) and Klatch (most often generic fantasy Middle East, here probably the Ottoman Empire), loosely based on Ferdinandea. Plenty of racism in it. There's also Interesting Times, which is an uncomfortably racist book.

In what way? It might play certain cultural stereotypes for laughs - but that's not racism, but, at worst, cultural chauvinism.