Erfworld Thread VII: No Consensus, Left Unsealed

[DigoDragon]

Think Voodoo.

I was trying to think of a less obvious idea though.

What's the end game with voodoo?

[Razade]

I was trying to think of a less obvious idea though.

What's the end game with voodoo?

Hurting and tormenting you but not actually hurting you.

[SZbNAhL]

Yeah, that was disturbing. I guess there's a reason that both Dollamancy and Turnamancy are referred to as "Spookism".

[Lentrax]

A string to steal, a dark room, Splinter Cell style nightvision goggles, torture references....

Did Bill just steal her G-String?

[SZbNAhL]

A string to steal, a dark room, Splinter Cell style nightvision goggles, torture references....

Did Bill just steal her G-String?

I don't think non-thinkamancers even know they exist. Weren't they introduced as one of the Great Minds' Big Secrets Charlie Knows™?

[DigoDragon]

Did Bill just steal her G-String?

Well Parson wasn't wasn't tugging on it.

Making the voodoo doll to torture Maggie seems kinda... I dunno, boring. I guess it'll work for interrogating her, but I am hoping it will be more Frankendoll impostor to trick Parson with.

[eschmenk]

I don't think non-thinkamancers even know they exist. Weren't they introduced as one of the Great Minds' Big Secrets Charlie Knows™?

The update said that he had learned some thinkamancy, even more than Bunny knew he had. He might have learned some secrets that he shouldn't have learned. Keep in mind that Bunny was in trouble for not keeping secrets.

OTOH, this didn't sound like a g-string to me. (Pun noticed, but not intended.)

[Dragonus45]

I think the string was a reference to the strings Wanda and Whatsherface saw that connected things.

[-D-]

What's the end game with voodoo?

Various different stuff.

Scariest implication is slowly taking over Maggie piece by piece, until the doll becomes the real Maggie, and Maggie is just a human puppet. Maggie becomes sleeper agent for TV. Although Jack would notice.

[Lizard Lord]

The deal Don made with Stanley was for the release of all three prisoners. Anything that didn't involve the release of Maggie, the real Maggie, would be a breach of contract would it not?

I am thinking either a voodoo doll that can control Maggies actions.

My other thought was a Frakenstein doll that could mimic Maggie's abilities as a thinkamancer, but then Jack would have been a better choice for that given that Transylvito doesn't have a foolamancer.

Whatever the use for this new type of doll is, Bill has successfully surpassed Wanda and Decryption in creep factor for me.

[-D-]

Whatever the use for this new type of doll is, Bill has successfully surpassed Wanda and Decryption in creep factor for me.

What Bill is doing seems like slow moving Decryption, only when you're alive. I hope he lives a brief life and dies a horrible death (and his ashes is scattered in the wind - Decrypted Bill is too horrible to contemplate)

[guttering flame]

Did they just torture Maggie to steal her strings?

In the prequel book Wanda mentioned a thinkamancer and a dollamancer breathed life into dolls but when the thinkamancer croaked the dolls became just normal animated dolls (Dorothy's companions: the scarecrow and tinman). Maybe Bunnie helped Bill did with this at one time and now he uses Maggie for the same purpose.

[-D-]

Did they just torture Maggie to steal her strings?

No, I think stealing her strings is just that painful. I shudder to think what is next. Dismantling her mind one piece at the time?

Only way out is killing Bill or making him undo his "damage". Other way is probably Decrypting Maggie, which is weird as it is.

On one hand this comic made me care, on the other hand, I hate the direction this is going. Remember when Erfworld was a relatively sheery place with stuffed animals and weirdly pronounced names? Neither do I!

[Quild]

How can I be so confused by text updates? Aren't they supposed to be clear? And I seem to be the only one.

Questions:
- How can Ivan have had any power in Wanda's imprisonment? Update 139 says: "This triggered a trap and revealed Qualifed Dirtamancer Ivan Poe, which added nicely to the evidence against him.", but after that, he gets to be temporarily Wanda's captor? Why?
- Janis is now Wanda's captor... Because she's her advocate? Can't the captors be the Great Minds and Janis the advocate. Meh.
- It's no shock to Janis that the bodies are Wanda's first concern. Is decryption that important to Wanda? Not losing the gifts that so many powerful units bodies are?
- It's still the same day than the events in MK here? So we already know that 3 days later she will still be in trial. And the second part of the update would be 3 days later?

[halfeye]

- It's no shock to Janis that the bodies are Wanda's first concern. Is decryption that important to Wanda? Not losing the gifts that so many powerful units bodies are?

Because decrypted, unlike uncroaked, are alive? Which makes any croakamancer attuned to the Arkenpliers a redeemer in Erfworld.

I understand that many here don't like Wanda because necromancy, but I don't think that's a correct assessment of her role, not that I think any other necromancer attuned to the Arkenpliers would necessarily be less good.

[NEO|Phyte]

- How can Ivan have had any power in Wanda's imprisonment? Update 139 says: "This triggered a trap and revealed Qualifed Dirtamancer Ivan Poe, which added nicely to the evidence against him.",

Because the thinkamancers hadn't presented their charges or evidence yet.

[eschmenk]

How can I be so confused by text updates? Aren't they supposed to be clear? And I seem to be the only one.

Questions:
- How can Ivan have had any power in Wanda's imprisonment? Update 139 says: "This triggered a trap and revealed Qualifed Dirtamancer Ivan Poe, which added nicely to the evidence against him.", but after that, he gets to be temporarily Wanda's captor? Why?
- Janis is now Wanda's captor... Because she's her advocate? Can't the captors be the Great Minds and Janis the advocate. Meh.
- It's no shock to Janis that the bodies are Wanda's first concern. Is decryption that important to Wanda? Not losing the gifts that so many powerful units bodies are?
- It's still the same day than the events in MK here? So we already know that 3 days later she will still be in trial. And the second part of the update would be 3 days later?

1) Ivan just moved quickly. He became her captor before many people realized that he had set the trap. The Great Minds noticed, but they tend to move slowly. They wanted to make sure they had sufficient evidence before accusing him. That apparently took a little while. Once Ivan was accused and arrested, Janis became Wanda's captor.

2) Janis is both Wanda's captor and her advocate. The Great Minds would rather orchestrate things than get involved so directly. They are probably trying to act neutral and Roger wouldn't allow them to favor GK too much.

3) That's Wanda for you. Units dust all the time. She's used to that. She loves to control dead bodies and make them loyal to her and it's her job as well.

4) Yes the top part happened the night after the battle. I think the bottom part happened a full day later. You might be correct about Wanda going on trial three days after the battle, but I couldn't find where that came from. Why do you think it was three days? (It was going to take Stanley three turns to travel back to Spacerock with the Juggles, but that didn't have anything to do with when Wanda would go on trial.)

[guttering flame]

How can the GM claim neutrality when they played host for Parson and his troops and gave Goblin Knob free magic assistance with various linkups? Eveyone in the MK must be aware of that by now.

[Quild]

4) Yes the top part happened the night after the battle. I think the bottom part happened a full day later. You might be correct about Wanda going on trial three days after the battle, but I couldn't find where that came from. Why do you think it was three days? (It was going to take Stanley three turns to travel back to Spacerock with the Juggles, but that didn't have anything to do with when Wanda would go on trial.)

Benjamin said to Caesar in previous update that Wanda was on trial and would be likely executed.
Seemed to me that it took 3 turns for Caesar to return from field, but might be two (Parson and Jack had 2 upkeep meal anyway).

As I said, it's confusing to me.

[-D-]

How can the GM claim neutrality when they played host for Parson and his troops and gave Goblin Knob free magic assistance with various linkups? Eveyone in the MK must be aware of that by now.

Great Minds that think alike (GMTTA), can claim they were helping Gobwin Knob to prevent CharlesComm from causing even more harm. And they would have a point. It's unknown for how long CC had ability to invade Magic Kingdom. Maybe even before Parson was a threat?

And now with Charlescomm proven to be a real threat, who better to handle him, than the guy that was summoned to kill him.

[eschmenk]

How can the GM claim neutrality when they played host for Parson and his troops and gave Goblin Knob free magic assistance with various linkups? Eveyone in the MK must be aware of that by now.

I didn't say "claim." I said "act" and I meant with respect to the trial. They wouldn't want to be an advocate. Jojo and other might accuse them of being biased, but the GMs could counter by saying that they were keeping an eye on Parson. Mostly they will try to let evidence do the talking for them. Once they do that, they can use the arguments that -D- just mentioned.

The GMs would have wanted to know anything that Wanda could have told them about the linkup with Lilith and what Charlie was doing, though. I wonder how much of that she will tell to Janis.

Benjamin said to Caesar in previous update that Wanda was on trial and would be likely executed.
Seemed to me that it took 3 turns for Caesar to return from field, but might be two (Parson and Jack had 2 upkeep meal anyway).

As I said, it's confusing to me.

Huh. I just realized that Don told Caesar to return one day before the battle in the MK happened. That update takes two days (and the picture at the bottom is on the third day). I wonder what the "other complicated affairs" that Don hinted about might have been, then, since it couldn't have been about Parson. Something to do with FAQ?

Anyway, this is the way I understand it:
Day -1: Don calls Caesar. Caesar starts traveling to meet with Don.
Day 0: Battle in MK happens during CC's turn and Charlie cries. Stanley probably starts to return during GK's turn. Sometime before TV's turn, Bunny tells Caesar that Parson was captured. Parson and Jack eat and talk during TV's turn and Caesar presumably continues to travel. Janis visits Wanda at night.
Day +1: We don't know what happens during CC's turn. Stanley presumably travels further during GK's turn (or starts). Parson and Jack get their second meals during TV's turn and Caesar arrives and talks with Don and Don negotiates with Stanley who was done traveling for the day. At night, Bill makes his voodoo doll of Maggie.

I think there is a bit of a goof in there in that it looked as if Stanley was traveling when Don called him. I think it probably was that Stanley had finished traveling already and he hadn't gotten around to having the Juggles get off the road and set up their tents yet. The time it took for Caesar to arrive and Don to call him may have been very compressed from Stanley's POV. If not, there is an extra night in there between when Caesar arrived and when he met with Don and the meeting with Don happened before TV's turn. It doesn't make sense that they would wait, though.

[Anteros]

I miss when Erfworld was a comic. The writing is not strong enough to hold up in book format.

[-D-]

I miss when Erfworld was a comic. The writing is not strong enough to hold up in book format.

QFT.

Also it was a lot more fun.

[DigoDragon]

I miss when Erfworld was a comic. The writing is not strong enough to hold up in book format.

Looking back in the archive, this is the 6th text update in a row. Did one of the artists have a life issue that prevents the comic pages from getting done?

[eschmenk]

Looking back in the archive, this is the 6th text update in a row. Did one of the artists have a life issue that prevents the comic pages from getting done?

I doubt it. It looks like he's just using the format that works best for the material. The pages are all about what the characters are thinking and saying. That works best in a mostly text format.

By "best," I mostly mean "most efficiently". It could be done in a regular comic format, but it would probably drag out longer. I think Rob was worried about the Chapter running too long and doesn't want to add too many extra pages. Using text lets him have more content per page.

[Lethologica]

There have been some text updates where a lot of the content either wasn't all that relevant, or could have been conveyed through non-textual elements of a comic update. I'm not sure if this update is one of them, though.

[DigoDragon]

There have been some text updates where a lot of the content either wasn't all that relevant, or could have been conveyed through non-textual elements of a comic update. I'm not sure if this update is one of them, though.

I could see this page being done in comic form. Play with the lighting a bit to add extra creepy visuals.

[eschmenk]

I could see this page being done in comic form. Play with the lighting a bit to add extra creepy visuals.

But you wouldn't get the thoughts that Bill was thinking to himself without just having a lot of thought bubbles while he wasn't doing anything. There was very little physical action to show.

There have been some text updates where a lot of the content either wasn't all that relevant, or could have been conveyed through non-textual elements of a comic update. I'm not sure if this update is one of them, though.

Page 143 could have been done as a comic, I suppose, but the result would have just been a lot of panels of people talking to each other. As it was, we saw what action we would have wanted to see, and it was drawn as nice big panels, instead of being squished down to make room for panels of dialog. Page 146 could have been done as a comic, too. Again, though, there just would have been a bunch of panels of people talking so it wouldn't have made a visually interesting comic page. I don't think the page was all that essential, but it did reintroduce TV's situation and some important characters, which we hadn't seen for quite a while, and it provided Caesar's and Bunny's opinions of Parson and GK, which were a bit different than we might have expected. It probably wouldn't have been a good idea to just skip it. The next page may have had too much talking to fit on one page. It probably could have been shrunken down, but it might have lost some of the effect. Again, you would have just had people talking, but at least there would have been more of a variety of people talking than on the previous page. IIIRC, DigoDragon said that he would have wanted to see Don's reaction. For me, often that sort of thing is better left to my imagination. That may be more of a YMMV thing.

I think the main issue is that things are winding down after the battle in GK and we are going to have to go through the aftermath of that. A lot of fairly complicated stuff is going on, so things wont' be resolved all that quickly. It will probably take some time before things ramp up to the next bit of action, whatever that is.

[DigoDragon]

But you wouldn't get the thoughts that Bill was thinking to himself without just having a lot of thought bubbles while he wasn't doing anything. There was very little physical action to show.

I was thinking of narration boxes with Bill's thoughts, and for the scenes we see the doll skulking into the jail cell.

[Lethologica]

But you wouldn't get the thoughts that Bill was thinking to himself without just having a lot of thought bubbles while he wasn't doing anything. There was very little physical action to show.

That's what got me about that update. There's a lot to gain from doing it as a comic, but also a lot to lose.

Page 143 could have been done as a comic, I suppose, but the result would have just been a lot of panels of people talking to each other. As it was, we saw what action we would have wanted to see, and it was drawn as nice big panels, instead of being squished down to make room for panels of dialog. Page 146 could have been done as a comic, too. Again, though, there just would have been a bunch of panels of people talking so it wouldn't have made a visually interesting comic page. I don't think the page was all that essential, but it did reintroduce TV's situation and some important characters, which we hadn't seen for quite a while, and it provided Caesar's and Bunny's opinions of Parson and GK, which were a bit different than we might have expected. It probably wouldn't have been a good idea to just skip it.

I think the main issue is that things are winding down after the battle in GK and we are going to have to go through the aftermath of that. A lot of fairly complicated stuff is going on, so things wont' be resolved all that quickly. It will probably take some time before things ramp up to the next bit of action, whatever that is.

143 could easily have been done as a comic, except for one thing: even without the guns, we've seen Archons attack at range in ways that didn't look like straightforward Shockmancy. That's an issue with previous portrayals of Archon abilities, though, not with this update. (Also, I'm not sure if that discrepancy was resolved elsewhere.) Otherwise, there's nothing in Stanley's internal thoughts that's really contributing to the update, so cut the dialogue in half, focus on the demonstration, and you're good to go.

144-146, shrug. 147 and 148 could have been two comic updates each; I'd rather see 148 than 147, but 148 also has more valuable internal narration than 147.