Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. V: You Joined the Cavalry.

[LaZodiac]

You don't want to see Daisy lose control either, for that matter. Losing control with that much power is a big thing, but it's so easy for Daisy that she flat out ignores evidence to the contrary.

My guess is, Lincoln WILL lose control, and this will make Daisy realize how ****ed up she's been taking all of this.

[Pex]

Only because I've been making a big deal about this.

Spoiler

Show

Obviously Skye was going to defeat Lincoln in the sparring match. However, at least it was plausible since she was legitimately training him and not the episode trying to make a point about Girl Power. We were also, thankfully, spared snark from Lincoln about fighting a female. It was all about the flirting training. In a role-reversal, I was impressed Skye took off her shirt and Lincoln kept his on.

[Reddish Mage]

Speaking from the examples we're given, Daisy is the all-time lottery winner of inhumans. She wasn't physically disfigured, she was activated in a setting where people cared for her and knew enough about this stuff to at least try to help, then she was placed in a position where a powerful old wise woman helped take her the rest of the way in mitigating the side effects of her powers. Oh, and she has the ability to not use her powers. Now she's in a position where she's got all of the benefits, none of the penalties, and all the support and acceptance she could hope for.

Compare her to Lincoln, whose admission that he constantly struggles to keep his powers from running wild gets ignored because Daisy is too busy removing her shirt.

How is that different from Lincoln? Not physically disfigured, check, comes into power surrounding by support group, check, powerful wise old woman mentor mitigating side effects, check...

Only problem is Lincoln is NOW having some trouble controlling his powers. I posit he simply needs some advice from another woman mentor...the prime candidate seems to be too busy advising him to lose control and taking off her shirt.

Also, as comicshorse points out, there is nothing natural about it, nor anything predestined (save from a meta perspective).

I am speaking from a meta perspective. "Natural" works from an in-story perspective as well, as the activation simply activates an already dormant potential of inhuman biology. Inhumans are distant descendants of the Kree experiments, after a couple thousand generations it really doesn't matter regarding the origins. It's like saying dogs are unnatural because humanity bred them from wolves back in prehistoric times.

We don't have arguments about life on Earth or humanity being unnatural in all the stories where it's established that life was seeded by aliens (say isn't Marvel comics one of those...).

[Hopeless]

Clearly he needs some morale support from Agent May!

After she's kicked some sense into him especially after electrocuting her ex-husband when that clearly doesn't work perhaps someone will direct him to a web page dealing with genre savvy and how to use his powers better oh right he needs to find a forum of comic experts!

[Bulldog Psion]

If they really wanted to be dark about it, they could have Daisy end up carrying her and Lincoln's kid. Then she gives birth to an individual who undergoes terrigenesis and ends up as a complete monster or hideously disfigured in some way. And then she realizes that she's acting like Jaiying.

Why, yes, I can be as depressing as Victor Hugo when coming up with plot ideas, though I usually choose to avoid that end of the spectrum.

[Calemyr]

How is that different from Lincoln? Not physically disfigured, check, comes into power surrounding by support group, check, powerful wise old woman mentor mitigating side effects, check...

Only problem is Lincoln is NOW having some trouble controlling his powers. I posit he simply needs some advice from another woman mentor...the prime candidate seems to be too busy advising him to lose control and taking off her shirt.

That's the thing about Lincoln. On the surface, he looks like a perfect success story like Daisy, but he's more like Lash than he wants to admit, less in control of his powers and more driven by them. He has an instinct to lash out and has to fight himself to keep from pushing his attacks into lethal territory. Daisy looks at him and sees someone like her, and she's going to be hurt when she realizes how different they are.

I am speaking from a meta perspective. "Natural" works from an in-story perspective as well, as the activation simply activates an already dormant potential of inhuman biology. Inhumans are distant descendants of the Kree experiments, after a couple thousand generations it really doesn't matter regarding the origins. It's like saying dogs are unnatural because humanity bred them from wolves back in prehistoric times.

We don't have arguments about life on Earth or humanity being unnatural in all the stories where it's established that life was seeded by aliens (say isn't Marvel comics one of those...).

This argument is tedious, but I'll answer that. If all humans are from an artificial source, they're all equally unnatural and it's not worth mentioning. We manipulated dogs to breed towards traits we liked, yes, but they're traits that already existed and we just nudged the bloodline in the right direction. It works (slightly) as an analogy to inhuman origins, but is not applicable to this situation. They were designed to develop powers, but they weren't designed to develop these powers. While their powers are not completely random, they're circumstantially determined, with the body forced to adjust to a powerset it wasn't designed to handle, much less a mind. For all but the most fortunate, the whole thing is a living nightmare.

I don't think anyone is suggesting being an inhuman is evil or immoral. It is, however, by no means natural. The origin is alien manipulation, the source is an exotic crystal, the metamorphosis isn't organic (petrification), and the powers defy physical law.

[Reddish Mage]

I think you mistake the unfamiliar for the unnatural.

By your logic if the story was that the Inhumans were a race of natural ancient mutants it would be a totally different problem demanding different solution.

[Joran]

I am speaking from a meta perspective. "Natural" works from an in-story perspective as well, as the activation simply activates an already dormant potential of inhuman biology. Inhumans are distant descendants of the Kree experiments, after a couple thousand generations it really doesn't matter regarding the origins. It's like saying dogs are unnatural because humanity bred them from wolves back in prehistoric times.

We don't have arguments about life on Earth or humanity being unnatural in all the stories where it's established that life was seeded by aliens (say isn't Marvel comics one of those...).

There is nothing natural about post-terrigenesis Inhumans, just like there's nothing natural about Captain America or the Hulk. They were all human, exposed to an external agent, and then developed powers. Before terrigenesis, Inhumans are indistinguishable from regular humans. Only in the presence of an alien reagent, do Inhumans develop powers.

[Reddish Mage]

Captain America - drug using commie sympathizer (its true he partnered with Black Widow in a movie), inhumans - you forgot the phrase properly finishes with the word "monsters", Hulk - the world would be better off without him...just ask the words most zealous peacekeeper Ultron.


I think its pretty clear that the heroes of the marvel universe ARE heroes, their genesis IS the right path for the world and the world IS a better place for their presence. I think that is pretty clear regardless of what fanciful origin created for them.

[LaZodiac]

I think its pretty clear that the heroes of the marvel universe ARE heroes, their genesis IS the right path for the world and the world IS a better place for their presence. I think that is pretty clear regardless of what fanciful origin created for them.

But those same groups also are, at least partially, responsible for a lot of villains. So it becomes less then a clear cut issue. Now if only there was some kind...oh I don't know, an Accord, that helped legitamize super heroics and keep track of them so bad things happen. Of course personal opinion on that is split so I imagine there'd be some kind of fighting going on.

Whatever it is, I imagine it won't be very civil, even with heroes like Rogers.

[Reddish Mage]

Somehow I'm getting the impression that everyone is on the side of Tony Stark...

[Joran]

Captain America - drug using commie sympathizer (its true he partnered with Black Widow in a movie), inhumans - you forgot the phrase properly finishes with the word "monsters", Hulk - the world would be better off without him...just ask the words most zealous peacekeeper Ultron.


I think its pretty clear that the heroes of the marvel universe ARE heroes, their genesis IS the right path for the world and the world IS a better place for their presence. I think that is pretty clear regardless of what fanciful origin created for them.

Every one of those heroes has a villain that has the same set of superpowers. Red Skull to Captain America, Abomination to Hulk, Jiaying/Lash to Skye.

I don't understand your argument, but let me try to re-summarize mine. Daisy's point about Inhuman terregenesis being a birthright is mistaken, because:

1) Not all terrigenesis results are good and there's no way to know until it happens. We're not even talking about to society, but to the individual undergoing terrigenesis. Gordon lost his vision, Raina had her entire insides turn into spines, Katya (the Inhuman that earned Agent May her nickname) became a threat to herself and others, never mind Lash, who took control of a caring man and turned him into an Inhuman killing machine, or Dwight, whose power is only to have pain and headaches around Inhumans.

2) Terrigenesis is not a natural property. It's only in exposure to an alien reagent that it happens. Until Jiaying's crystals got dumped in the ocean, the vast majority of Inhumans would have lived perfectly normal lives.

So, given these two sets of facts, Lincoln's argument makes sense, each individual Inhumans should be given the choice about whether or not to manifest their powers. The only part of Daisy's argument that I agree with is that if governments get a hold of the vaccine, they might make it mandatory and that's a valid argument.

Somehow I'm getting the impression that everyone is on the side of Tony Stark...

Well, we are watching Agents of SHIELD. SHIELD's standard operating procedure, Indexing, was basically registration. But again, I'm not arguing for or against registration or indexing, we were presented with a simple argument between Lincoln and Daisy. I think Lincoln's argument was the stronger one.

[LaZodiac]

I agree with both. Like it or not, these people ARE Inhumans, they just haven't activated their powers yet. They may not share a culture like other races but they do exist, and do have a birthright. Yes, they were intended to be used as super weapons, but that doesn't stop us from making duck hunting dogs into cute little pets. But like Lincoln says, it should be a choice to activate it, and they have to understand the risks and have stuff in place to make sure we DON'T get another Lash, another Jiyang. I feel like, if he had the proper training and time, even Andrew could of controlled that beast. Focus that anger and desire to hunt and kill into something that lets him control it. Hell, if Dwight had lived and gotten control of his powers he'd be like their Cerebro.

We can't call them monsters just because they were intended to be deadly super soldiers, but we can't just shove everyone into the fish oil pill box and assume this'll go well. Look at the chaos Melty Joe caused vs how great he is now. You need a mix of both.

[SuperPanda]

Near as I can tell both Lincon and Daisy have good points and neither is bothering to look for a perfectly sensible third option.

Daisy: Beneath the "Birthright" argument is a solid examination of the world. If Governments of the world had the "anti-inhuman vaccine" the would administer it to everyone without granting anyone a choice. That's the way governments work - that's the only "sensible" way to control the "problem" and contain the "threat."

This assumes: They can make enough of the vaccine for the entire world. It can be synthesized long after Creel died. Governments will continue doing this long after inhumans become a footnote in history.

Lincoln: A good percent of inhumans would rather not be inhumans and the change isn't gentle or pleasant for anyone. People deserve an informed choice, some preparation, and support. With the world as it is, the vaccine provides choice.

This assumes: The Vaccine can be controlled by Shield - potential inhumans can be tracked by shield without data leaking - and people can make informed choices about something as random as Terringenisis.


Under Lincoln's ideal: a special SHIELD team - probably headed up by himself probably - track potential inhumans down and explain who/what they are and give them a choice. If they don't want to risk terringenisis they get the vaccine and go back to normal lives. If they want to be inhuman they get support and then go to Sky for training.

Under Sky's ideal: Governments learn to fear the people (her people) ? (check) and then learn to respect them (um...) and finally love them (err... step one really makes this hard).

There are massive problems with Loncoln's plan:

They can't possibly get to everyone in time - there will still be loads of Inhumans transforming without a choice.

They know that information like a list of potential inhumans won't be safe for very long - Hyrda will get it and if not them then some new Bull Shield or the good old "Rising Tide."

The whole thing is a Catch-22. No sane person should want to go through terringenisis and no one should want to let an insane person get that kind of power. If you say you want to be inhuman, you probably can't be trusted to be one, and if you don't want to be inhuman you'll probably be exactly who the world needs with that kind of power.


-------------
Inhuman as Disease? (How are they different from mutants)

That said - I see that we're using natural in this thread more like how we'd discuss fate than anything else. Under that useage there is an important distinction:

Is being inhuman fated - yes.

Is being inhuman affected by choice - Currently no, Lincoln's argument is that it should be Daisy's is argument is that Lincoln's is childishly optimistic and the world sucks too much for anyone to really have a choice.

Is being inhuman positive for the inhuman - Data inconclusive, some carry nearly no downsides after they learn control - others carry almost no upsides. Most fall in the middle.

Is being inhuman "strange" and "unfamiliar" to everyone else in the setting - very yes.

Is being inhuman inherently scary - Yes for all parties involved including the inhuman themself.

Is it a sudden change - yes

Can it fundamentally alter personality - yes

Can it essentially kill the "old" self - yes.

Are there any real analogies using human biology - no (Caterpillar / butterfly fits though). This is the one which marks a difference with Mutants. For Mutants, and one Spiderman movie, coming into their powers is connected to changes the body undergoes at puberty. This is used for analogies to being mutant and being gay. There is essentially no difference between inhumans and mutants apart form this one. Mutants mostly gain their powers at a certain time in life without any external trigger or shared violent transformation - often the mutant doesn't know they've started changing until their powers accidentally go off.

so Inhumans and Mutants are pretty much only different in A) how sudden the change is and B) how the change happens - through puberty or through contact with an alien reagent.

That last bit changes the conversation here though: Mutants can't be "vaccinated" against because their DNA doesn't change when they develop powers. Seeking a "Cure" for mutants involves actively changing their DNA.
Inhumans exist whether or not they come into contact with the alien reagent - in fact the person before and after can have such radically different personalities that they should be considered different people (Lash and Andrew). Which person's rights are more important? The "Vaccine" prevents alterations to the DNA by the alien reagent (protects the inhuman from violent change) at the cost of the person after (The powered inhuman).

Where Mutant "Cures" fit nicely with Gay Rights issues - I'm starting to see the Inhuman Vaccine more as "abortion." (Is the old life worth inherently more or less than the potential new life because they can't be equal in this case). Daisy then would be saying the "new life"'s rights supercede those of the old life even when the event is forced and Lincoln would be saying that the "old life" has the right to choose what happens to their body.


Wow... that really adds interesting subtext to that conversation. Am I off my rocker or does that seem to be how that's presented to anyone else?

[ryuplaneswalker]

Near as I can tell both Lincon and Daisy have good points and neither is bothering to look for a perfectly sensible third option.

Daisy: Beneath the "Birthright" argument is a solid examination of the world. If Governments of the world had the "anti-inhuman vaccine" the would administer it to everyone without granting anyone a choice. That's the way governments work - that's the only "sensible" way to control the "problem" and contain the "threat."

This assumes: They can make enough of the vaccine for the entire world. It can be synthesized long after Creel died. Governments will continue doing this long after inhumans become a footnote in history.

Lincoln: A good percent of inhumans would rather not be inhumans and the change isn't gentle or pleasant for anyone. People deserve an informed choice, some preparation, and support. With the world as it is, the vaccine provides choice.

This assumes: The Vaccine can be controlled by Shield - potential inhumans can be tracked by shield without data leaking - and people can make informed choices about something as random as Terringenisis.


Under Lincoln's ideal: a special SHIELD team - probably headed up by himself probably - track potential inhumans down and explain who/what they are and give them a choice. If they don't want to risk terringenisis they get the vaccine and go back to normal lives. If they want to be inhuman they get support and then go to Sky for training.

Under Sky's ideal: Governments learn to fear the people (her people) ? (check) and then learn to respect them (um...) and finally love them (err... step one really makes this hard).

There are massive problems with Loncoln's plan:

They can't possibly get to everyone in time - there will still be loads of Inhumans transforming without a choice.

They know that information like a list of potential inhumans won't be safe for very long - Hyrda will get it and if not them then some new Bull Shield or the good old "Rising Tide."

The whole thing is a Catch-22. No sane person should want to go through terringenisis and no one should want to let an insane person get that kind of power. If you say you want to be inhuman, you probably can't be trusted to be one, and if you don't want to be inhuman you'll probably be exactly who the world needs with that kind of power.


-------------
Inhuman as Disease? (How are they different from mutants)

That said - I see that we're using natural in this thread more like how we'd discuss fate than anything else. Under that useage there is an important distinction:

Is being inhuman fated - yes.

Is being inhuman affected by choice - Currently no, Lincoln's argument is that it should be Daisy's is argument is that Lincoln's is childishly optimistic and the world sucks too much for anyone to really have a choice.

Is being inhuman positive for the inhuman - Data inconclusive, some carry nearly no downsides after they learn control - others carry almost no upsides. Most fall in the middle.

Is being inhuman "strange" and "unfamiliar" to everyone else in the setting - very yes.

Is being inhuman inherently scary - Yes for all parties involved including the inhuman themself.

Is it a sudden change - yes

Can it fundamentally alter personality - yes

Can it essentially kill the "old" self - yes.

Are there any real analogies using human biology - no (Caterpillar / butterfly fits though). This is the one which marks a difference with Mutants. For Mutants, and one Spiderman movie, coming into their powers is connected to changes the body undergoes at puberty. This is used for analogies to being mutant and being gay. There is essentially no difference between inhumans and mutants apart form this one. Mutants mostly gain their powers at a certain time in life without any external trigger or shared violent transformation - often the mutant doesn't know they've started changing until their powers accidentally go off.

so Inhumans and Mutants are pretty much only different in A) how sudden the change is and B) how the change happens - through puberty or through contact with an alien reagent.

That last bit changes the conversation here though: Mutants can't be "vaccinated" against because their DNA doesn't change when they develop powers. Seeking a "Cure" for mutants involves actively changing their DNA.
Inhumans exist whether or not they come into contact with the alien reagent - in fact the person before and after can have such radically different personalities that they should be considered different people (Lash and Andrew). Which person's rights are more important? The "Vaccine" prevents alterations to the DNA by the alien reagent (protects the inhuman from violent change) at the cost of the person after (The powered inhuman).

Where Mutant "Cures" fit nicely with Gay Rights issues - I'm starting to see the Inhuman Vaccine more as "abortion." (Is the old life worth inherently more or less than the potential new life because they can't be equal in this case). Daisy then would be saying the "new life"'s rights supercede those of the old life even when the event is forced and Lincoln would be saying that the "old life" has the right to choose what happens to their body.


Wow... that really adds interesting subtext to that conversation. Am I off my rocker or does that seem to be how that's presented to anyone else?

I am going to say yes, but simply because I don't trust shows to think that deeply about it and ultimately the show is going to end up siding with Daisy because she is "the main character"

[Reddish Mage]

I'm going to say SuperPanda is a bit off on this one.

Not so much that the arguments he's playing around can't be made (they are the way the thread is going after all) but that it is premised in the reality of vaccinations, which doesn't apply in the Marvel context.

The Marvel context already has terragenesis occurring all over the globe due to the dispensing of fish oil tablets. I didn't realize the word was THAT hungry for OMEGA-3 supplements.

I think Diasy and Lincoln are fundamentally arguing a political/ethical question from a thought experiment context: a heavily idealized standpoint used mainly in philosophy classes where teachers can force the students to take this sort of thing seriously by putting it on the midterm.

The difference is, this is Marvel we're talking about, they can actually make the thought experiment a reality because that seems to be how technological progress works in this world.

Daisy and Lincoln haven't argued how the vaccine might go terribly wrong and end up producing a super-duper-inhuman (is this the origins of Blackbolt?) or have side effects (is the rise in autism caused by government attempts to surpress superhuman powers?), they are arguing on the idea that the vaccine is a reality, it works perfectly, and the only question is do we want to vaccinate people or not?

I would note that Daisy Skye would have taken that vaccination in a heartbeat! Lincoln might not have! Raina certainly wouldn't have! Gordon would have said you are crazy!

[Forrestfire]

The Marvel context already has terragenesis occurring all over the globe due to the dispensing of fish oil tablets. I didn't realize the word was THAT hungry for OMEGA-3 supplements.

Minor nitpick: it's not just fish oil tablets; it's also some fish in general (Pulse said she was eating fish for dinner when she got terrigenesis'd).

[Calemyr]

Yeah, the idea of a vaccine generated from the blood of one man getting global mandatory release while it's still relevant is comical and if they do, I'll consider it one of the stupidest things they've done, right above, GH-325 taking someone from flatline to an even 60 pulse in less than a minute.There's super-science and there's nonsense, that was nonsense.

Honestly, the solution to terragen would be counseling and information. Someone earlier compared the vaccine question to abortion and, while that seems like a suggestion destined to escalate a flame war to nuclear levels, one aspect of that really fits for me: crisis. A pregnant teen with no clue what she's doing or how to handle the sudden avalanche of life-changing responsibilities raining down on her needs someone hear her out and guide her towards a solution she can live with. A freshly minted inhuman is in much the same boat, but while our species kind of depends on people being able to work out this whole parenting thing and there's a lot of books and advice for that stuff, there's next to nothing to help an inhuman lost in the world.

That was Jaiyang's role. Remember that she wasn't always the monster she became. Until Whitehall killed her, Jaiyang had been sweet and wise and nurturing for what must have been centuries. She took scared newborns with no frame of reference for their new abilities and comforted and guided them until they could stand on their own two feet. Then some <redacted> killed her to get a shot at eternal youth and she comes back broken and tainted. But now there is no place for them to find their feet. No Jaiyang or Professor Xavier with his absurdly large school.

As a less divisive example, just take puberty. Everyone goes through it, for the most part. Yet, despite the fact that it's one of the common experiences that unite our species, it remains a difficult time on our lives, where we struggle to identify ourselves and to answer those questions that nobody can answer for us. Just imagine how much worse it is when your experience truly was unique? Where nobody could even sympathize with you because nobody had a valid frame of reference to work from?

Anyway, what MCU needs is an Inhuman Crisis Center. Like Afterlife was, but on a global scale due to what Afterlife became.

[Starbuck_II]

So most of all of asia will get terra'd (sushi, fish, etc) contain it.

Granted not all of gene for it.
Surprise no one transforms like a power ranger as their power (lash was close but that was more Blanka from Street Fighters).

[Dragonus45]

I think you mistake the unfamiliar for the unnatural.

By your logic if the story was that the Inhumans were a race of natural ancient mutants it would be a totally different problem demanding different solution.

Yes actually, it's part of the reason I think trying to replace the Mutants with the Inhumans is such a grave mistake. A mutant is someone who is undergoing a natural change per the internal logic of the setting, an Inhuman is someone having that change thrust upon them by an outside force. They are situationally totally different.

[LaZodiac]

Yes actually, it's part of the reason I think trying to replace the Mutants with the Inhumans is such a grave mistake. A mutant is someone who is undergoing a natural change per the internal logic of the setting, an Inhuman is someone having that change thrust upon them by an outside force. They are situationally totally different.

True, though the Gifted (as they're called in universe since they can't use the term Mutant) aren't purely just from genetic stuff. Like yeah, Absorbing Man has his power, but other Gifteds got it through science and other stuff. Inhumans are more readily able to be shoved into a group, which does make the comparison more possible. But then on the other hand, the Mutants as homosexuality thing never really worked because we get differences like Storm and Rogue. Storm has natural control over weather and seemingly has not one single problem with it, whereas Rogue is basically a monster. Additionally the X-Gene allows for a cure, and even implying that connection to the real world is awful.

Meanwhile, with Inhumans, it does not matter if they NEVER go through TG. They're Inhuman. They will ALWAYS be Inhuman. If you made an Inhuman detector, even if they never went through TG and got the vaccine against it, they would always register as Inhuman. They would still be "the other". I think that fits a little better. It's not perfect by any stretch, but it's still there.

Also one could argue that all of humanity exists because of outside forces due to meteorite impacts spreading germs and stuff places so a little alien meddling means basically nothing. Reminder that in this universe the Norse mythology is real and they were aliens.

[Red Fel]

Meanwhile, with Inhumans, it does not matter if they NEVER go through TG. They're Inhuman. They will ALWAYS be Inhuman. If you made an Inhuman detector, even if they never went through TG and got the vaccine against it, they would always register as Inhuman. They would still be "the other". I think that fits a little better. It's not perfect by any stretch, but it's still there.

Actually, unless they changed it, no. Until triggered, Inhumans are human. Completely human. Somehow the Inhuman atavism is genetically inert; it's not some sort of extra genome or unique DNA tag, but a totally undetectable compound that somehow rewrites otherwise human DNA in response to Terrigen exposure. They emphasized this in earlier episodes, the fact that Daisy and other Inhumans were totally human prior to Terrigenesis. They ran Daisy's blood; prior to her Terrigenesis, there was nothing.

Which admittedly makes no sense from a scientific perspective - if there is a genetic atavism, it's there someplace. But hey, comics and TV science, and I still watch it.

In short, a potential Inhuman who has not undergone Terrigenesis is completely human. A potential Inhuman who has not undergone Terrigenesis and has received a vaccine is and will remain completely human. Only an Inhuman who has undergone Terrigenesis is actually genetically distinct and non-human.

Unless they suddenly change it and say, "Nope, you know what? There's totally a detectable compound after all." Because comics and TV science.

[Kitten Champion]

Actually, unless they changed it, no. Until triggered, Inhumans are human. Completely human. Somehow the Inhuman atavism is genetically inert; it's not some sort of extra genome or unique DNA tag, but a totally undetectable compound that somehow rewrites otherwise human DNA in response to Terrigen exposure. They emphasized this in earlier episodes, the fact that Daisy and other Inhumans were totally human prior to Terrigenesis. They ran Daisy's blood; prior to her Terrigenesis, there was nothing.

Which admittedly makes no sense from a scientific perspective - if there is a genetic atavism, it's there someplace. But hey, comics and TV science, and I still watch it.

In short, a potential Inhuman who has not undergone Terrigenesis is completely human. A potential Inhuman who has not undergone Terrigenesis and has received a vaccine is and will remain completely human. Only an Inhuman who has undergone Terrigenesis is actually genetically distinct and non-human.

Unless they suddenly change it and say, "Nope, you know what? There's totally a detectable compound after all." Because comics and TV science.

I would also argue "Inhuman" is a civilization with its own culture, history, and personal identity - not simply someone who underwent Terrigenesis. Calling these - what are essentially victims of a terrorist attack on the world's food supply - Inhumans because they have some stealth genetic markers and ate the wrong fish taco last Tuesday would be like saying you're a member of a long-lost South American Indigenous Civilization because you happen to have some genetic baggage from them in your report from Ancestry.com.

Point being, these are just random meta-humans when you get down to it - and unlike Mutants, their children and children's children have no likelihood of becoming meta-humans as Inhuman children are born as mundane humans and without access to the Terrigen Crystal compound they'd remain that way - meaning they'll functionally be an anomaly in the annals of history that can't actively form a long-term identity of their own without conscious intent to produce one... which again, changes their narrative from that of the Mutants.

Beyond that, the only ones who have that sense of identity are the Afterlife-indoctrinated members, who are like the Australia of Inhumanity. Of that only Daisy, who spent her life looking for an identity and has undergone this paradigm-shifting revelatory experience, is really pushing for this to be a thing (supported by the fact that, I suppose, Marvel does too at the moment).

As to the vaccine, it's really the best case scenario of that which is likely. Again, as opposed to Mutants, people and organizations aware of the Terrigen compound like Hydra can produce willing meta-humans from their own ranks - Hydra is, however, covert in its existence like SHIELD - that same strategy employed by the world's major militaries and any sufficiently resourced group with the wherewithal to access Terrigen and use it suddenly will have whatever% super-soldiers in their ranks offering a substantially greater danger as its this huge and unwelcome shift in the geopolitical and military landscape where any one of those can pull the Blackbolt card and decimate cities with a word. A global fiat by these powers to vaccinate would be putting away the new nuclear football, so to speak. Unlike the Mutants, a vaccine in this situation isn't pulling humanity back from the precipice of evolution or Curing someone of their own supposedly flawed genetics, it's reversing something someone did to them out of fear and hatred and without regard for their lives or happiness - or, in the case of Hydra acolytes, something they ingested themselves to have better weapons available to oppress and harm people with.

Yes - it should be a choice for those who've already undergone Terrigenesis and aren't using them for criminal acts (particularly as the current State solution was to store them in stasis tanks) - there's enough precedent of meta-humans working for the general good that giving them the benefit of the doubt and resources they need to train their abilities makes sense... but for everyone else who could become one... there's a good argument for why playing the superhuman lottery with 6 billion people can be very bad and something we should logically avoid.

[Reddish Mage]

I know some people who basically were raised by white people then became adults and suddenly found their genetic history was important to them...even if it was just a story they were told.

One of those people currently lives in a very big mansion in Washington DC (ok joking here JOKING).

Seriously though. Race is genetic and social and a lot of other things, and any other difference be it red hair (Gingers) or religion (Jew) or vaguer ethnicity, gets mixed up with the genetics. Race doesn't make sense, race doesn't have to make sense, much like superpowers.

Having superpowers is itself fundamentally alienating and threatening to large parts of humanity, rather like something else Marvel keeps analogizing it to.

[lord_khaine]

Yes - it should be a choice for those who've already undergone Terrigenesis and aren't using them for criminal acts (particularly as the current State solution was to store them in stasis tanks) - there's enough precedent of meta-humans working for the general good that giving them the benefit of the doubt and resources they need to train their abilities makes sense... but for everyone else who could become one... there's a good argument for why playing the superhuman lottery with 6 billion people can be very bad and something we should logically avoid.

Are we even sure that the it will do anything to those who have undergone Terrigenesis? were the entire point not that it only worked on those who had not gone though the change?

[Kitten Champion]

Are we even sure that the it will do anything to those who have undergone Terrigenesis? were the entire point not that it only worked on those who had not gone though the change?

No, it's the opposite I think, Simmons tested Daisy's blood sample post-Terrigenesis and saw it reverted to her previous mundane state. What hasn't been established - as far as I'm aware - is whether or not Creel's blood can be used to synthesize a vaccine to prevent Terrigenesis in the first place. I suppose you'd need someone you know who could become Inhuman - I guess by exposing some of their blood to Terrigen - and then seeing if further samples which have been inoculated remain unaffected.

Though it's comic book science here we're dealing with, so I think it should be presumed a vaccine is already a possibility.

[LaZodiac]

No, it's the opposite I think, Simmons tested Daisy's blood sample post-Terrigenesis and saw it reverted to her previous mundane state. What hasn't been established - as far as I'm aware - is whether or not Creel's blood can be used to synthesize a vaccine to prevent Terrigenesis in the first place. I suppose you'd need someone you know who could become Inhuman - I guess by exposing some of their blood to Terrigen - and then seeing if further samples which have been inoculated remain unaffected.

Though it's comic book science here we're dealing with, so I think it should be presumed a vaccine is already a possibility.

Pretty sure it was the other way. This isn't a cure for people who have it, but a way to prevent it if they are.

[Kitten Champion]

Pretty sure it was the other way. This isn't a cure for people who have it, but a way to prevent it if they are.

According to the recap, yeah, you're right.

[Reddish Mage]

What Simmons did was take two blood samples of Daisy's from before the temple and subject one to the crystals and the other to Creel's blood and then the crystals. The first goes through terrigenesis and the second remains the same. That's a straightforward scientific experiment for supporting the theoretical viability of a vaccine ala Fleming's experiment (replace Daish's blood with bacteria culture and AbsorbingMan's stuff with moldy peels).

In real life this would be a first theoretical step and then require years of testing and (in)human trials to establish but we're talking about a vaccine to prevent people from turning to stone and developing superpowers here.

[3SecondCultist]

What Simmons did was take two blood samples of Daisy's from before the temple and subject one to the crystals and the other to Creel's blood and then the crystals. The first goes through terrigenesis and the second remains the same. That's a straightforward scientific experiment for supporting the theoretical viability of a vaccine ala Fleming's experiment (replace Daish's blood with bacteria culture and AbsorbingMan's stuff with moldy peels).

Because I'm in a nit-picking mood, I will point out that on screen, the second blood sample goes through Terrigenesis, and then reverts. While there is no net change, the process of Terrigenesis appears to at least begin in the test subject.