Magic the Gathering XXII: Where Puns Go to Die

[ryuplaneswalker]

*head desk*

I go from rank 37 to rank 35 in two straight matches because a deck that I have shaved down to 18 lands because I KEEP DRAWING TOO MANY LANDS...DRAWS too many lands twice in a row.

How is this the problem instead of the opposite.

[ChaosOS]

Not entirely sure what you mean by rank, but variance happens, and "too many lands" is very relative. 4 lands is ideal in Jund, but wayyy too many in burn.

[ryuplaneswalker]

Not entirely sure what you mean by rank, but variance happens, and "too many lands" is very relative. 4 lands is ideal in Jund, but wayyy too many in burn.

Too many lands as in

"I have 18 lands and 42 Non Lands I draw 10 of those lands, and 99% of my deck is 4 CC or less"

and by Rank I mean Ranked play in magic duels it has ranked play that goes based off seasons that change when the new set comes out.

Edit : I also really wish they would fix the stupid bug that causes you to pass phase when you have instants you can play but nothing else. it screws my line of play so many times.

[Androgeus]

*head desk*

I go from rank 37 to rank 35 in two straight matches because a deck that I have shaved down to 18 lands because I KEEP DRAWING TOO MANY LANDS...DRAWS too many lands twice in a row.

How is this the problem instead of the opposite.

Because 2 games is not a valid sample set.

[ryuplaneswalker]

Because 2 games is not a valid sample set.

Too many lands is by far my largest loss cause, I am just amazed that I keep drawing too many..and rarely see too little with 18/60

[Fable Wright]

Well, just 4-0'd a 24-man local Modern tournament with this updated list.

Spoiler: Temur Company

Show

14 Engine Pieces

4x Aether Vial
4x Temur Ascendancy
3x Collected Company
2x Cream of the Crop
1x Faithless Looting

6 Disruption Spells

3x Radiant Flames
2x Reality Shift
1x Echoing Truth

19 Creatures

4x Tarmogoyf
4x Leatherback Baloth
3x Vexing Sphinx
2x Skaab Ruinator
2x Myr Superion
2x Epochrasite
1x Imaginary Pet
1x Illusory Angel

21 Lands

2x Island
2x Forest
1x Mountain
3x Copperline Gorge
2x Breeding Pool
2x Stomping Grounds
1x Steam Vents
2x Flooded Grove
3x Scalding Tarn
2x Misty Rainforest
1x Wooded Foothills


Sideboard:
4x Stubborn Denial
2x Feed the Clan
2x Counterflux
2x Echoing Truth
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Spellskite
1x Collected Company

This was probably a fluke, given that my opponents were running mono-red control, RBW spell burn, Naya burn, and Burning Zoo in order of first to last round, and I definitely respected these decks in the sideboard. (I expected to see a fair bit of burn at the tournament, but not that much. Feed the Clan was clutch several times yesterday.) Regrettably, boarding for those involves taking out the combo pieces of the deck; I tend to board out Looting, Echoing Truth, Temur Ascendancies, and Cream of the Crops for these matchup. (Incidentally proving that the deck can win without the pieces, I guess, but it gives relatively little information about how the deck plays across the board.)

Regardless, I think a few lurkers have tried the list out, and if anyone's still playing it I wanted to say one thing:

Cream of the Crop is what the deck was missing. It smooths out draws to the point where you can actually, effectively dig into missing pieces; it comes down turn 2 so that you can play a turn 3 fattie and still get advantage; it means that Temur Ascendancy won't stall out; and finally, it still generates meaningful advantage off a 3/4 Goyf, so you don't have to feel guilty about playing that as an early blocker rather than holding onto it as ascendancy gas later on. I'm testing it on 2, and very pleased with the results; testing with 3 or 4 will occur after the last two ship.

(I'm happy to share play tips with anyone who wants to try out the list on Cockatrice, but I'd hate to type everything out if no one is interested.)

[Ninjaman]

I might be wrong but I think DMofDarkness posted something like that some time ago.

[Fable Wright]

I might be wrong but I think DMofDarkness posted something like that some time ago.

Do check the first line of my signature. Same person, different username, far more experience with the deck at present.

[Dhavaer]

I wonder if I could get an Eternal Masters set constructed game going at my LGS? I don't want to rely on drafting to play five colour Hondens.

[Zombimode]

Edit : I also really wish they would fix the stupid bug that causes you to pass phase when you have instants you can play but nothing else. it screws my line of play so many times.

Yeah, there are some real issues. Try using Jace's minus ability with no sorcery speed plays in your hand or battlefield targeting a sorcery in your yard. Congrats, you've just wasted your turn AND dealt three damage to your planeswalker.

[Ninjaman]

Do check the first line of my signature. Same person, different username, far more experience with the deck at present.

Oh, that explains so much. Why did you change your name if I may ask?

[Fable Wright]

Oh, that explains so much. Why did you change your name if I may ask?

One big factor was awkwardness as a player in forum roleplaying games when people occasionally refer to me as 'DM'. Couple that with the fact that it was a username I thought was cool when I was 13 before realizing that it was unwieldy and adding 'dark' doesn't make a name cool, and that the name implies a killer DM mentality that I've eased back on a bit over the years, and it just started feeling an old mask that I outgrew years ago. One day simply I wanted to stop dealing with the little annoyances of the name, and I lodged a name change request. Not too much to it, really.

[Mystic Muse]

Decided to finally make Shape Anew in Modern for funsies. How many Blightsteel Colossi should I have available to Shape Anew into?

[ryuplaneswalker]

Yeah, there are some real issues. Try using Jace's minus ability with no sorcery speed plays in your hand or battlefield targeting a sorcery in your yard. Congrats, you've just wasted your turn AND dealt three damage to your planeswalker.

Oh you have NO idea, I have a Jace in real life so I very often use him so I completely forget that is a bug in Magic Duels because half of my Jace lines of play involve that -3

[Occasional Sage]

Does anybody have a method, in Pauper, of changing color words on my own cards? I'm looking at a WUB construction and everything I know/can search is Unc+.

Edit: other than the Balduvian Shaman, I really don't want to mess around with cumulative upkeep!

[Fable Wright]

Does anybody have a method, in Pauper, of changing color words on my own cards? I'm looking at a WUB construction and everything I know/can search is Unc+.

Edit: other than the Balduvian Shaman, I really don't want to mess around with cumulative upkeep!

Changing colors is not a Common effect. It has very few applications in Limited environments, it causes headaches in people unfamiliar with the rules when interactions get wonky, it leaves no markers on permanents causing gameplay confusion, and colors-matters effects are generally unfun and have been greatly eased up on over time.

In short? No, you're not getting color change effects on common, save one obscure, convoluted, and generally regrettable Ice Age common.

[Occasional Sage]

generally regrettable Ice Age common.

A sad truth, since the set was so solid! I think really saved the game after FE tanked so badly.

Hm, drat. Back to the drawing board then.

[tgva8889]

On the comment on Relentless Rats: Format deck construction rules trumps card rules. You can't play any Relentless Rats in Standard because the format rules say that it is not a legal card, even though Relentless Rats clearly says you may put any number of Relentless Rats into your deck.

I was still wrong apparently, though, because as it turns out the Commander rules specifically list exceptions, so no one can complain about your Relentless Rats or Shadowborn Apostle deck in Commander, not that they were going to anyways.

I wonder if I could get an Eternal Masters set constructed game going at my LGS? I don't want to rely on drafting to play five colour Hondens.

In my experience, you really don't need them all, and in fact 3 is probably enough. Certainly the best two are White and Black since they make you unable to die and shift your opponent to topdeck mode. Drafting them usually isn't too hard if you are willing to put in the effort (though drafting Eternal Masters is certainly hard...)

Given that Eternal Masters set constructed is close to Legacy Lite, this doesn't sound like a format where you're going to get to play very many Hondens to very much effect anyways, but I might be wrong.

[Tesla_pasta]

In my experience, you really don't need them all, and in fact 3 is probably enough. Certainly the best two are White and Black since they make you unable to die and shift your opponent to topdeck mode. Drafting them usually isn't too hard if you are willing to put in the effort (though drafting Eternal Masters is certainly hard...)

Given that Eternal Masters set constructed is close to Legacy Lite, this doesn't sound like a format where you're going to get to play very many Hondens to very much effect anyways, but I might be wrong.

I respectfully disagree with this. While Eternal Masters certainly has some crazy stuff in it (like charbeltcher, natural order, jace....) each player is likely to have 2-4 really crazy things at most, so you do still have to build a draft deck. Looking at the list, Green/White has several creatures that benefit from having enchantments, so I bet you can build a descent draft/sealed deck that makes good use of the Honden. In a limited environment all of them are playable, but the Green one is (usually) the best and the White one is (usually) the worst. I'll explain my analysis of the Honden in the spoiler.

Spoiler

Show

Both the green honden and the white honden make you very hard to kill, but the green honden actually can win you the game since the spirits can deal damage. Just look at past limited formats to see how insanely powerful repeatable creature generation is. repeatable lifegain can be amazing against decks that want to race you (like the UW flying deck and RG aggro deck in Eternal Masters) but against midrange and control decks it doesn't do too much- Havoc Demon and Wurm Tokens can still kill you at 40 life.

The blue honden and the black honden both generate card advantage (which is very good) but the black honden 'turns off' once the opponent is topdecking. The blue honden with continue to pull you ahead further and further each turn, no matter what your opponent is doing.

The red honden can be amazing or mediocre, heavily dependent on your opponent's deck. If your opponent has a deck full of Squadron Hawk and Raise the Alarm, it's absurdly powerful. Against larger creatures, it's mostly just a worse sulfiric vortex- which is still good if you're playing a really aggressive deck.

On average, I'd say
Great- Green, Blue
Good- Red, Black
Okay- White

Though these change depending on how aggressive your deck is and the kind of deck your opponent is playing. In particular, the White honden gets much better in an GW enchantress deck, but is unplayable in an aggressive white deck.

[ryuplaneswalker]

Well the Honden of Night is not quite "turned off" when your opponent has no hand. There is the fact that whatever they draw in top deck mode they must play it by the next trigger or lose it.

[Dhavaer]

I make deck: The Oaths That Were Taken. Jeskai superfriends, with oaths. It's currently 10 cards short and I think what it wants is early removal. It may also have too much land, but I'm not sure. Suggestions?

[Occasional Sage]

Arrite, I have an EDH rules question: may I cast a spell or put a card into play which is not a part of my Commander's color identity, providing that it was not in my deck at the start of the game?

For instance cards such as Acquire and Bribery allow me to put cards into play from *your* deck, and the combo of a Havengul Lich and a North Star would allow me to cast from *your* graveyard using CMC.

[Dhavaer]

Yes, colour identity is just a deck building constraint. I think the limitation on mana was removed or modified when colourless requirements came in.

[DJ Yung Crunk]

How are y'all at judging non-existent cards that random scrubs (like me) just made up?

[Mystic Muse]

We can do it semi-effectively, I'm sure.

[DJ Yung Crunk]

Okily dokily.

Spoiler: I'm sure this could be phrased better but...

Show

Treacherous Saboteur, 1BB, Human Wizard, 0/1

Shroud

Cumulative upkeep - Sacrifice a permanent not named Treacherous Saboteur.

When Treacherous Saboteur enters the battlefield each opponent puts into play a token that's a copy of it except it loses this ability.

Cumulative upkeep must be paid if able.

[Ninjaman]

It's a smokestack, that's what is it is, except this is even more broken. First off you can make your deck so you easily can get rid of it and just leave your opponent with one that eats all his stuff. Secondly you can reanimate it with something like sun titan, sac it then bring it back, giving your opponent a whole bunch of them. You can also birthing pod it quite effectively.

It's interesting design but it is not a fun card and shouldn't ever be printed.

[Svata]

Keep in mind, I play a lot of EDH.

Okily dokily.

Spoiler: I'm sure this could be phrased better but...

Show

Treacherous Saboteur, 1BB, Human Wizard, 0/1

Shroud

Cumulative upkeep - Sacrifice a permanent not named Treacherous Saboteur.

When Treacherous Saboteur enters the battlefield , if it isn't a token, targeteach opponent puts into play a token that's a copy of it except it loses this ability.

Cumulative upkeep must be paid if able.

Still shouldn't be made, but that change fixes it up a bit. That way you can't remove Shroud and Rite of Replication it with a sac outlet on board. Making it target prevents it from wrecking the entire board, and means you may be able to politic your way to actually sticking it, rather than it being counter bait.

[Binks]

Arrite, I have an EDH rules question: may I cast a spell or put a card into play which is not a part of my Commander's color identity, providing that it was not in my deck at the start of the game?

For instance cards such as Acquire and Bribery allow me to put cards into play from *your* deck, and the combo of a Havengul Lich and a North Star would allow me to cast from *your* graveyard using CMC.

Yes, colour identity is just a deck building constraint. I think the limitation on mana was removed or modified when colourless requirements came in.

Dhavaer is correct, but figured I'd chime in with the actual rule citations to help out.

The restriction on color identity is part of the Commander Deck Construction Rules. Specifically Rule #3 "Cards in a deck may not have any colors in their color identity which are not shared with the commander of the deck." There are no other restriction on color identity in the commander rules. Only when constructing a deck do you need to worry about it.

As for generating mana outside your color identity, that was previously banned via Rule 4 but was removed in the January 2016 Rules Update. The problem with the rule was the part that converted all non-color identity mana into colorless which, with BfZ set's new colorness costs, made lands that tapped for all colors able to tap for additional types of mana (as long as you didn't have a 5 color commander). To give an example, if you were playing any non-5 color deck, you could tap Transguild Promenade to pay the colorless cost of Koz the Great Distortion, which obviously added to the functionality of the land. On the other hand, if you were playing a 5 color commander, you couldn't tap that Transguild for colorless, which was considered too non-intuitive to keep in the rules.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Treacherous Saboteur, 1BB, Human Wizard, 0/1

Shroud

Cumulative upkeep - Sacrifice a permanent not named Treacherous Saboteur.

When Treacherous Saboteur enters the battlefield each opponent puts into play a token that's a copy of it except it loses this ability.

Cumulative upkeep must be paid if able.

Oh boy. This would be bad enough if it were just an upkeep, let alone a cumulative one. It's so hard to remove, and it can't even attack effectively, which might be the one balancing point (letting your opponent swing at you for small amounts of damage would at least HELP).

As something like a 2/1 or 1/1 it might be better, as there's at least SOME sacrifice there on your part. Instead, this is just something you feed to a sac outlet (super easy in black) and watch destroy your opponent's entire game. That unavoidable ramping permanent sacrifice is absolutely CRIPPLING to any deck that doesn't feature its own sacrifice outlet or can't simply kill you outright that same turn.