Magic the Gathering XXII: Where Puns Go to Die

[Blue Ghost]

Cumulative upkeep is a pretty terrible mechanic IMO. Just because Wizards used it before doesn't mean it should be brought back.
Agreed on everything people have said. It would be significantly better without shroud, so that a normal deck would have some way to deal with it, but still massively unfun.

If you want to try your hand at card design, we have some threads going down in Message Board Games.

[9mm]

So on a lark I took the mono-blue prison standard deck and converted it over to a sphinx's tutelage mill deck; It's been hilariously effective.

Spoiler: list for the curious

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24 Island
4 Prism Ring
4 Nagging Thoughts
4 Anticipate
4 Hydrolash
4 Pore Over the Pages
4 Engulf the Shore
4 Sphinx's Tutelage
4 Artificer's Epiphany
4 Comparative Analysis

[DJ Yung Crunk]

Thanks for the feedback, fellas! Keeping all of this in mind. This is more important than you realise. Can't explain why.

[Dhavaer]

Drafting EMA went okay. Pulled a foil Wasteland, which was nice. Also bought a box, getting a Jace, Maelstrom Wanderer and Necropotence. Drafted Abzan Enchantress, went 2-1. Hondens are cool, I had two white, a green and a black. Having three Tangles, a Yavimaya Enchantress and an Ancestral Mask was pretty sweet too.

[Occasional Sage]

Thanks for the EDH clarification!

Tangenting back to Pauper, I'd be interested in feedback on a deck concept, if anybody's interested.

Spoiler: Whoopin' Wizards, v2.3

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8 Plains
5 Island
2 Swamp
2 Dismal Backwater
1 Scoured Barrens
4 Traveler's Amulet
4 Esper Stormblade
3 Stonybrook Banneret
4 Windwright Mage
4 Ethersworn Shieldmage
4 Thistledown Duo
4 Stream of Unconsciousness
4 Coordinated Barrage
4 Celestial Flare
3 Eternal Thirst
3 Steel of the Godhead
3 Distant Melody

I took out Evolving Wilds for the Amulet to improve the odds of getting artifacts into the graveyard without loosing creatures, in order to boost the Windwright; I don't think the cost is significant, since if it's used when I don't have a land in hand whatever I spend to trigger the Amulet gets replaced immediately. Celestial Flare took the pick over Wing Shards for card-play order: Wing Shards wants to be last in the sequence, which would make any other combat effect (likely) a wast to spend mana on. Eternal Thirst in barely edging out Soul Link, only because of the +1/+1 boosts.

Clearly I'm not looking for a turn-2 win with this. I want a developed game with some give and take.

[Fable Wright]

Thanks for the EDH clarification!

Tangenting back to Pauper, I'd be interested in feedback on a deck concept, if anybody's interested.

Spoiler: Whoopin' Wizards, v2.3

Show

8 Plains
5 Island
2 Swamp
2 Dismal Backwater
1 Scoured Barrens
4 Traveler's Amulet
4 Esper Stormblade
3 Stonybrook Banneret
4 Windwright Mage
4 Ethersworn Shieldmage
4 Thistledown Duo
4 Stream of Unconsciousness
4 Coordinated Barrage
4 Celestial Flare
3 Eternal Thirst
3 Steel of the Godhead
3 Distant Melody

I took out Evolving Wilds for the Amulet to improve the odds of getting artifacts into the graveyard without loosing creatures, in order to boost the Windwright; I don't think the cost is significant, since if it's used when I don't have a land in hand whatever I spend to trigger the Amulet gets replaced immediately. Celestial Flare took the pick over Wing Shards for card-play order: Wing Shards wants to be last in the sequence, which would make any other combat effect (likely) a wast to spend mana on. Eternal Thirst in barely edging out Soul Link, only because of the +1/+1 boosts.

Clearly I'm not looking for a turn-2 win with this. I want a developed game with some give and take.

Hm. Given Windwright Mage and Esper Stormblade, have you considered Edge of the Divinity? Also, how much work are those Bannerets doing you? They reduce the cost of only a few cards in your deck, aren't worth much in combat, and there are a lot of cool other wizard effects you could be tapping. Like Cuombajj Witches/Prodigal Sorcerer, Deputy of Acquittals, Hisoka's Guard, Information Dealer, Disruptive Pupil, and so on.

[Timberwolf]

Hi guys, long time lurker here, just thought I'd ask for a little input. I have a Commander deck that works well for me and I love playing it, however there's always room for a fresh perspective as there's so many cards out there that may work better. I've only been playing a couple of years and most certainly don't know every single one and what they do. After all, the deck that stays still is the deck that people work out how to deal with. In other words, can anyone think of some other cards that synergises particularly well with angels and will work better with what I have already put in. Thanks for any input.

Spoiler

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Wolfie's 5 colour Angels.

Commander

Child of Alara

Creatures (34)
Admonition Angel
Akroma, Angel of Fury
Akroma Angel of Wrath
Angel of Jubilation
Angel of the Dire Hour
Angelic Arbiter
Angelic Field Marshal
Angelic Skirmisher
Archangel of Thune
Aurelia the Warleader
Avacyn, Angel of Hope
Baneslayer Angel
Captain Sisay
Emeria Shepherd
Firemane Avenger
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Guardian of the Gateless
Heliod
Herald of War
Hushwing Gryff (My usual opponent plays Slivers)
Iona, Shield of Emeria
Jenara, Asura of War
Kaalia of the Vast
Lightning Angel
Linvala, Keeper of Silence
Maelstrom Archangel
Magister of Worth
Platinum Angel
Reya Dawnbringer
Serra Avenger
Sigarda, Heron's Grace
Sigarda, Host of Herons
Soul of Ravnica
Sunblast Angel

Enchantments (7)
Celestial Mantle
Detention Sphere
Omniscience
Phryexian Reclamation
Sanguine Bond
True Conviction
Wild Pair

Instants (4)
Afterlife
Comeuppance
Polymorphist's Jest
Return to Dust

Sorceries (9)
Akroma's Vengeance
Black Sun's Zenith
Choice of Damnations
Diabolic Tutor
Genesis Wave
Increasing Ambition
Killing Wave
Merciless Eviction
Nissa's Renewal

Artifacts (11)
Akroma's Memorial
Bident of Thassa
Caged Sun
Chromatic Lantern
Commanders Sphere
Elixir of Immortality
Lightning Greaves
Ring of Three Wishes
Sol Ring
Swiftfoot Boots
Whispersilk Cloak

Planeswalkers
Narset Transcendent

Lands (33)
Ancient Zigguarat
Arcane Lighthouse
Azorius Chancery
Blossoming Sands
Calciform Pools
Command Tower
Evolving Wilds
Forest
Frontier Bivouac
Gavony Township
Hallowed Fountain
Island
Molten Slagheap
Mountain
Mystic Monastery
Nomad Outpost
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Opal Palace
Opulent Palace
Plains
Saltcrusted Steppe
Sandsteppe Citadel
Scoured Barrens
Swamp
Terramorphic Expanse
Transguild Promenade
Temple of Deceit
Temple of Enlightenment
Temple of Plenty
Temple of Triumph
Temple of the False God
Vivid Meadow
Wind - Scarred Crag

Notes and explanations

Spoiler

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Some stuff might be a bit odd / incomprehensible.
Child of Alara I'm not keen on this as my Commander, but unfortunately, the options are limited and it was the only one I could see doing anything for me aside from Cromat, whose card I hate with a passion.
Lots of board wipes of varying types. Regrettably essential for local play. People round here love mass indestructible and mass hexproof.
Five colours. I love the Maelstrom Archangel as it gets expensive stuff in for free, which is a real concern, and there's a lot of angels with splashes of other colours that are too useful to lose. Plus Black fires most of my utility spells, especially the ones that let me search the library.
Polymorphist's Jest and Comeuppance. When you've had 1000 Sliver tokens created by an infinite mana loop from the Sliver Queen (Mana Echoes and Training Ground...) made even bigger by the Sliver Legion (+1,+1 for each other creature that shares a type with it) bear down on you, stuff that'll stop that is very, very welcome, especially when they're all indestructible, protected from white and only blockable by other slivers. This also works on the disappointingly large hydras and everything else that I run into.
Narset The free scry / draw is great, as I find I need card draw. the -2 ability is less useful, but still handy and the -9 is just fantastic.
Sanguine Bond It's a separate way of winning that does not required smashing people in the face directly with creatures. Synergises amazingly with Celestial Mantle, Archangel of Thune and True Conviction.
Captain Sisay. By the nature of this, I run a lot of legendaries. Sisay lets me search for them once a turn and is made hexproof by new Sigarda.

[Occasional Sage]

Hm. Given Windwright Mage and Esper Stormblade, have you considered Edge of the Divinity? Also, how much work are those Bannerets doing you? They reduce the cost of only a few cards in your deck, aren't worth much in combat, and there are a lot of cool other wizard effects you could be tapping. Like Cuombajj Witches/Prodigal Sorcerer, Deputy of Acquittals, Hisoka's Guard, Information Dealer, Disruptive Pupil, and so on.

I haven't actually put together and played the deck yet. That said, I'm iffy on the Bannerets too. If I were to replace them I'd probably use either Somnomancers (UW dovetails nicely with SotG) or Stoneybrook Teachers for ablative blockers and to boost Barrage and Melody.

I can see Prodigal being useful to kill small things to boost Thirst, or do that last bit with a too-small Barrage, but I'd rather have that at CMC2 than 3, which is a bit high for what looks like an edge-case. That'd mean Red for Fireslingers though as the Cuombajj make it too easy to lose my own creatures, and I don't want to go that route (though Crown of Fury would be a fun addition if I threaded Red in). That's just too many mana problems.

On Edge of Divinity, what would you take out for it? +3/+3 is great, but +2/+2 Unblockable Lifelink is really hard to beat. Likewise the +1/+1 per enemy death and Lifelink that I get from Thirst.

[Fable Wright]

I haven't actually put together and played the deck yet. That said, I'm iffy on the Bannerets too. If I were to replace them I'd probably use either Somnomancers (UW dovetails nicely with SotG) or Stoneybrook Teachers for ablative blockers and to boost Barrage and Melody.

I can see Prodigal being useful to kill small things to boost Thirst, or do that last bit with a too-small Barrage, but I'd rather have that at CMC2 than 3, which is a bit high for what looks like an edge-case. That'd mean Red for Fireslingers though as the Cuombajj make it too easy to lose my own creatures, and I don't want to go that route (though Crown of Fury would be a fun addition if I threaded Red in). That's just too many mana problems.

On Edge of Divinity, what would you take out for it? +3/+3 is great, but +2/+2 Unblockable Lifelink is really hard to beat. Likewise the +1/+1 per enemy death and Lifelink that I get from Thirst.

Well, Cuombajj Witches actually can't kill any Wizards that you run. They all have 2 or more toughness save for an unbuffed Stormblade (which is not likely to be unbuffed for long), and they're unlikely to be in scenarios where they're blocked such that they'll be left with only one damage on them. For cuts, I'd be looking at Stream of Unconsciousness; sure, it cantrips, but it requires you to leave mana up, be on the defensive, and it gains relatively little benefit against most creatures. It's not a bad card, but it's not amazing like an Edge is when you're swinging in with a 6/5 flier turn 3. Or when you assemble that Ikea Baneslayer with your Windwright Mage.

[Occasional Sage]

Well, Cuombajj Witches actually can't kill any Wizards that you run. They all have 2 or more toughness save for an unbuffed Stormblade (which is not likely to be unbuffed for long), and they're unlikely to be in scenarios where they're blocked such that they'll be left with only one damage on them.

Not alone, no, but there are relatively few 1P creatures worth killing with them also.

For cuts, I'd be looking at Stream of Unconsciousness; sure, it cantrips, but it requires you to leave mana up, be on the defensive, and it gains relatively little benefit against most creatures. It's not a bad card, but it's not amazing like an Edge is when you're swinging in with a 6/5 flier turn 3. Or when you assemble that Ikea Baneslayer with your Windwright Mage.

Why does it require I be on the defensive? Is there errata I'm not aware of?

If it can be used as an offensive card as printed, I can simply cast permanents in my second main.

EDIT: the Shaper Guildmage looks be a solid sub. CMC1 with the ability to add first strike? Yes Please. Though I'm not entirely convinced that the Bannerets won't open up enough combat Instants to be worth the slot.

[Fable Wright]

Not alone, no, but there are relatively few 1P creatures worth killing with them also.

Delver, mana dorks, Crypt Rats, tokens, any number of random 2/1 dorks, etc. Cuombajj are good enough that mono-black runs them as a 4-of, which implies some valuable targets.

Why does it require I be on the defensive? Is there errata I'm not aware of?

If it can be used as an offensive card as printed, I can simply cast permanents in my second main.

Sorry, I was making assumptions. Now I'm just curious how the -4/-0 is helping your team of fliers and unblockable creatures kill your opponent faster.

[Occasional Sage]

Sorry, I was making assumptions. Now I'm just curious how the -4/-0 is helping your team of fliers and unblockable creatures kill your opponent faster.

My thinking is that it keeps my creature on the board, and draws me a card, at the cost of {U}.

Delver, mana dorks, Crypt Rats, tokens, any number of random 2/1 dorks, etc. Cuombajj are good enough that mono-black runs them as a 4-of, which implies some valuable targets.

Using more than one, though, or using them in the same round as combat, starts really costing me. I'm not playing out-of-combat suppression, which is where they will shine.

[Fable Wright]

My thinking is that it keeps my creature on the board, and draws me a card, at the cost of {U}.

My question is more about what situation will occur where you're going to get benefit from this. In order for you to get that advantage offensively, you have to have 2 creatures that you want to attack with, while they have to have a blocker capable of shutting at least one down, and you don't have a Shieldmage. The only situation where I see this happening is when you're against mono-U with Spire Golem and Delver, and in that case, Edge of the Divinity will punch through both and become a permanent answer for whatever threat prompted you to play it, as opposed to just getting 2-3 damage through and being stuck looking for another answer next turn.

Using more than one, though, or using them in the same round as combat, starts really costing me. I'm not playing out-of-combat suppression, which is where they will shine.

Eh. Your call. Possibly worth testing, possibly not. I'm just not seeing much value from the Bannerets.

Also not sold on the Shaper Guildmage. First strike is good in weenie fights on the ground, but when you have evasion, it tends to lose a bit of oomph. Still, your call.

[Dhavaer]

I make deck: Countersphinx. Mostly I really wanted to use Sphinx of Magosi since it's back in standard. Lots of instants seemed like the way to go, so I can hold back mana and pump my sphinx if my opponent doesn't do anything worth countering. I'm thinking of tossing in Sphinx of the Final Word but I'm not sure if I want to go to 24 land when my plan A is a six drop mana sink.

[Bucky]

I make deck: Countersphinx.

Needs more Mage-Ring Network.

[Dhavaer]

Needs more Mage-Ring Network.

I'm not super enthusiastic about non-Islands with Engulf the Shores. I can see it being useful, though.

[Tesla_pasta]

Thanks for the EDH clarification!

Tangenting back to Pauper, I'd be interested in feedback on a deck concept, if anybody's interested.

Spoiler: Whoopin' Wizards, v2.3

Show

8 Plains
5 Island
2 Swamp
2 Dismal Backwater
1 Scoured Barrens
4 Traveler's Amulet
4 Esper Stormblade
3 Stonybrook Banneret
4 Windwright Mage
4 Ethersworn Shieldmage
4 Thistledown Duo
4 Stream of Unconsciousness
4 Coordinated Barrage
4 Celestial Flare
3 Eternal Thirst
3 Steel of the Godhead
3 Distant Melody

I took out Evolving Wilds for the Amulet to improve the odds of getting artifacts into the graveyard without loosing creatures, in order to boost the Windwright; I don't think the cost is significant, since if it's used when I don't have a land in hand whatever I spend to trigger the Amulet gets replaced immediately. Celestial Flare took the pick over Wing Shards for card-play order: Wing Shards wants to be last in the sequence, which would make any other combat effect (likely) a wast to spend mana on. Eternal Thirst in barely edging out Soul Link, only because of the +1/+1 boosts.

Clearly I'm not looking for a turn-2 win with this. I want a developed game with some give and take.

You're aggressive, so -x/-0 spells aren't likely to help you. If you want cantrips, run ponder of preordain, both of which are brokenly good and legal in pauper. if you want to push through damage in combat, run vapor snag.

[One Tin Soldier]

Hey guys,

I've been considering brewing a Modern deck, after noticing an interesting interaction in one of my existing casual decks. I threw together a quick decklist, but I wanted to see if you all had any advice to improve it. I'm not committed to actually buying the cards for it yet, but if I was I'd want to keep my purchases relatively cheap.

Spoiler: First Pass at Merfolk Ordeal deck

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Artifacts
2 Ring of Evos Isle
2 Swiftfoot Boots
Creatures
4 Ajani's Pridemate
2 Auramancer
2 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Sejiri Merfolk
Enchantments
4 Ordeal of Heliod
4 Ordeal of Thassa
2 Sunbond
Instants
3 Ajani's Presence
3 Mizzium Skin
4 Swords to Plowshares
Lands
2 Azorius Chancery
8 Island
8 Plains
4 Prairie Stream
1 Sejiri Refuge

The main interaction that I built the deck around is between Sejiri Merfolk and the Ordeals, gaining a whole lot of life and card advantage. Everything else in the deck either benefits from that interaction, fuels it, or works as an alternate Ordeal target (in the case of the Geist). But I'm sure there are aspects that could be improved, or weaknesses that I'm missing.

[Mystic Muse]

Swords to plowshares isn't Modern Legal. The closest thing is Path to Exile.

You're kind of going two different directions here. One is a voltron/pump sort of thing, the other is a lifegain one. If you want the deck to be good, you're going to need more focus on one of those.

What's your budget?

[One Tin Soldier]

Swords to plowshares isn't Modern Legal. The closest thing is Path to Exile.

You're kind of going two different directions here. One is a voltron/pump sort of thing, the other is a lifegain one. If you want the deck to be good, you're going to need more focus on one of those.

What's your budget?

Thanks, I'm unfamiliar with the various banlists.

The lifegain is the main reason that the Merfolk/Ordeal interaction is interesting to me, so I'd rather focus on that. But I also don't want the Merfolk to be my only win condition, so that I don't immediately lose to a deck capable of interfering with it.

To start out with, I'd want to keep the deck under $50. Which I know is pretty low for the format (4 Paths to Exile alone almost break that limit), but I just don't have the funds to go further than that right now and I would like to get my feet wet in the format.

[Mystic Muse]

Honestly, the issue is, $50 is just so little, especially for a two color deck. I have no idea what your local meta is like, but odds are, if you spend $50 on a deck, you'll go to FNM with people who have somewhere between ten to fifty times your budget and just get trounced.

If you want a lifegain centered deck, your best bet is probably http://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype...rs-26495#paper It's more expensive than your budget, but it's probably the only viable lifegain centered deck in Modern. The only key expensive cards are Serra Ascendant, Path to Exile, and Ranger of Eos, with Serra Ascendant probably being the most important.

Of course, the issue is, even if you are willing to spend the money, the deck is very straightforward and may get boring quickly.

Do you have any other deck ideas that interest you? If not, I could try and put together a U/W lifegain deck on a $50 budget, but I can't make any promises about results.

[Sith_Happens]

Okay, so I haven't looked at this thread in months and I'm going to an Eternal Masters sealed tomorrow morning. What possible decks/archetypes should I be on the lookout for that are actually good?

[Ionbound]

Elves can be good if you get the bits and bobs for it.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

"the bits and bobs"

I like this phrase. That is all.

[Sith_Happens]

And which of those "bits and bobs" are the most important ones? I could probably figure out for myself but it would require pouring over the set again.

[One Tin Soldier]

Honestly, the issue is, $50 is just so little, especially for a two color deck. I have no idea what your local meta is like, but odds are, if you spend $50 on a deck, you'll go to FNM with people who have somewhere between ten to fifty times your budget and just get trounced.

If you want a lifegain centered deck, your best bet is probably http://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype...rs-26495#paper It's more expensive than your budget, but it's probably the only viable lifegain centered deck in Modern. The only key expensive cards are Serra Ascendant, Path to Exile, and Ranger of Eos, with Serra Ascendant probably being the most important.

Of course, the issue is, even if you are willing to spend the money, the deck is very straightforward and may get boring quickly.

Do you have any other deck ideas that interest you? If not, I could try and put together a U/W lifegain deck on a $50 budget, but I can't make any promises about results.

Yeah, I'm familiar with Soul Sisters. It and Tempered Steel are the only two Modern decks that I am familiar with. It probably is the deck that I'd be most interested in building out of the existing meta.

The high deck budgets is basically the reason I've been avoiding most Constructed formats. It sounds like just what I was afraid of, that I'd get completely trounced unless I play what's Most Optimal^TM.
Ah well, that's what Limited formats are good for. And, ya know, just kitchen table Magic.

I'm still curious if the deck could be competitive though, if budget weren't a factor. Would it be possible to make a reasonably competitive deck based around the Sejiri Merfolk and the Ordeals?

[Mystic Muse]

Yeah, I'm familiar with Soul Sisters. It and Tempered Steel are the only two Modern decks that I am familiar with. It probably is the deck that I'd be most interested in building out of the existing meta.

The high deck budgets is basically the reason I've been avoiding most Constructed formats. It sounds like just what I was afraid of, that I'd get completely trounced unless I play what's Most Optimal^TM.
Ah well, that's what Limited formats are good for. And, ya know, just kitchen table Magic.

I'm still curious if the deck could be competitive though, if budget weren't a factor. Would it be possible to make a reasonably competitive deck based around the Sejiri Merfolk and the Ordeals?

Honestly, no. The Merfolk die to every non-unset removal spell ever printed, and a fair number of decks can just kill your creature in response to you enchanting them. The only cempetitive deck involving auras that I'm aware of is bogles, because all the creatures have hexproof, or the auras give your one non-hexproof creature (Kor Spirit Dancee) totem armor.

[ChaosOS]

Merfolk itself is a very competitive deck, but that deck is focused on lords and Aether vials such as Lord of Atlantis and Master of the Pearl Trident

[unseenmage]

...

The high deck budgets is basically the reason I've been avoiding most Constructed formats. It sounds like just what I was afraid of, that I'd get completely trounced unless I play what's Most Optimal^TM.
Ah well, that's what Limited formats are good for. And, ya know, just kitchen table Magic.

...

I advise still attending an event or three and participating at least a couple times.

Learn your meta, maybe not everyone there can afford Most Optimal decks.

Sure MtG formats are rapidly solved via the interaction between MtG's massive userbase and the information age but that doesnt mean every players meta holds to those standards.


If your goal is to grind planeswalker points and play at being a pro then you will definitely have to spend the big bucks.
But if all you want to do is tinker and surprise a few opponents with a dark horse deck then i say go for it.

[Ionbound]

And which of those "bits and bobs" are the most important ones? I could probably figure out for myself but it would require pouring over the set again.

Uuh, Wirewood Symbiote, Lys Alana Huntsmaster, Shaman of the Pack, Imperious Prefect. BBE is nice, but not necessary. Same with Heritage Druid, Timberwatch and Llanowar Elves, and the Elvish Vanguard. Though really, a good guide is just take elves and things that synergize with elves, if you get something good in the first few packs.