Magic the Gathering XXII: Where Puns Go to Die

[Tvtyrant]

I'm working on a custom block for fun, I wanted to see what opinions on what I have in concept and the cards I have made for them are.

The block is based on the major wars of the Eighteenth Century, set in an alternate universe. The three sets represent different wars. The sets are designed with dueling colors for each tribe, giving the whole system a civil war feeling.

1: Seven Years/French and Indian Wars.

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Prussia Vs. Austria:

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Prussia is Black/White Goblins, Austria is Red/Green Goblins.

Prussian gobbos are based around control effects such as discard, flicker protection, board wipes, and hurting itself for card draw.

Austrian Gobbos are aggro based, with Trample, Haste, direct damage and land grabbing effects.

Britain vs. France:

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Britain is Red/White Orcs, France is Blue/Red Orcs.

Britain combines protection effects with direct damage and high damage, low toughness creatures.

France is essentially counter-burn in this set. Card Draw, counter spells, large butts, burn spells.

Huron vs. Iroquois:

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Huron are Blue/White elves, Iroquois are Green/White elves (not very opposed I know).

Huron uses unblockable effects, exile, and tapping effects.

Iroquois have creature tokens, mana ramp, and group boosting abilities.

Second set is the American Revolutionary War, still working on the ideas but here are some cards I made as tests.

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[mythmonster2]

The idea for the first block sounds real neat, but my immediate concern is, what are the colors that aren't included in the primary conflict of each set going to be doing?

[Tvtyrant]

The idea for the first block sounds real neat, but my immediate concern is, what are the colors that aren't included in the primary conflict of each set going to be doing?

Wilderness and mercenaries are the thoughts that come to mind. I like the beast and mercenary types, and they can fit into the missing colors.

The last set covers all of the colors as it is going to be red/white/blue Napoleanic France vs. Black/Green/Diamond Russia. I wonder if Snow Wastes would be too indulgent...

[Dhavaer]

Unpopular Uprising in the Civil War set needs to be Tribal to have a creature subtype.

[9mm]

got bored and started messing around with standard mono-red burn:

Spoiler: BURN

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4 Thermo-Alchemist
4 Hanweir Garrison
4 Bedlam Reveler
3 Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh

4 Fiery Impulse
3 Burn from Within
4 Exquisite Firecraft
4 Fiery Temper
4 Galvanic Bombardment
4 Incendiary Flow
4 Collective Defiance

18 Mountain

SB: 4 Tears of Valakut
SB: 4 Roast
SB: 4 Smash to Smithereens
SB: 3 Savage Alliance

And I have been having way to much fun.

[Dhavaer]

got bored and started messing around with standard mono-red burn:

Spoiler: BURN

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4 Thermo-Alchemist
4 Hanweir Garrison
4 Bedlam Reveler
3 Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh

4 Fiery Impulse
3 Burn from Within
4 Exquisite Firecraft
4 Fiery Temper
4 Galvanic Bombardment
4 Incendiary Flow
4 Collective Defiance

18 Mountain

SB: 4 Tears of Valakut
SB: 4 Roast
SB: 4 Smash to Smithereens
SB: 3 Savage Alliance

And I have been having way to much fun.

Shreds of Sanity is pretty good, especially combined with Fiery Temper.

[Razaele]

So after a few years away from the game (I sold my collection when the Innistrad block rotated out), I have once again felt the cardboard crack itch. I'm more casual now though (have way more responsibilities) and as such have decided to invest in duel decks so that I may be able to play with friends and family.

I'm pretty new with duel decks (currently own Sorin vs Tibalt, Jace vs Vraska, Elspeth vs Kiora, and Blessed vs Cursed) and so far I've noticed that they aren't as balanced as I thought they would be. Now, that's not such a bad thing as I usually use the decks to play with my cousins/friends, who are way more casual MtG players than I am, so I usually take the more difficult/weaker deck.

That said, I'm currently waiting on a package deal that I got from a friend that contains Elspeth vs Tezzeret, Ajani vs Nicol Bolas, Izzet vs Golgari, Heroes vs Monsters, Knights vs Dragons, Venser vs Koth, and Speed vs Cunning. I've tried searching around the net to find more information about the balancing of these decks, but there isn't a lot out there. I'm hoping that you guys could give me your opinions on the decks and their balancing. My goal here is to differentiate which deck in the pair is objectively the more difficult deck to pilot and which one consistently wins more so that I can give the easier (and hopefully the one that has the better win rate) deck to my opponent.

Personally, my experience is as follows:

Sorin vs Tibalt
I pilot Tiablt's deck because it's the more complicated deck in this pairing, but I win about 80% of the time with it.

Jace vs Vraska
Jace is a bit more difficult to pilot, but he wins most of the time. Seriously, I think Vraska only won once in all the times that we played this set and that was because Jace kept a sketchy opening hand that did not pan out. I'm planning on taking up the Vraska deck to see how big of a difference a more experienced pilot can be.

Elspeth vs Kiora
At first I felt that Elspeth was nearly impossible to beat with the Kiora deck, but now I've found the rhythm with the Kiora deck and have been winning about 50-60% of the time with it. Both decks aren't too difficult to pilot, though the Kiora deck needs a pilot with the ability to properly evaluate opening hands. The ratio of wins and losses here is just perfect in my opinion.

Blessed vs Cursed
Both decks are fairly simple beatdown decks with simple combo elements. So far the easiest pair that I've played with and we can freely swap decks without me having to fear for the matchup being too one-sided.

[Ninjaman]

@ Razaele
Don't know much about the duel decks, but what I could find from a quick google search most people seem to think Sorin vs Tibalt is well balanced. Have you tried playing Sorin to see what your win percentage is.

You said you sold all your cards, I assume this means you don't have any commons or something laying around. If you do you could always try switching out some cards and playtest to see if the balance is better.
A thing to notice about trying to rebalance the decks would be whether one deck is generally stonger than the other, or if one deck just has a few really good/ really weak cards that break the balance, (for instance I could read Sulfuric Vortex was really good in SvsT). If it's the second you should probably start off by replacing bad cards with useful ones. After that I would try to give the weak deck some more powerful cards to match the good decks powerful cards.
If it's the first it's a bit more difficult to balance, but I would probably do it by switching out some of the worsts cards with some better ones and see if that did the job.
The last thing to notice is the kind of cards you play. It might be that one deck lacks answers for the other deck's cards, so you might put in some cards to deal with those (like if a deck has too little creature removal, too little artifact/enchantment removal or too few ways to deal with flying creatures).

Again, I don't know the decks, so you will need to make most of these observations yourself or get help from someone who knows more about the decks.

[Razaele]

@ Razaele
Don't know much about the duel decks, but what I could find from a quick google search most people seem to think Sorin vs Tibalt is well balanced. Have you tried playing Sorin to see what your win percentage is.

Yup! Generally, the Sorin one is the easier deck to use so I leave that deck to my friends. My win percentage with Sorin is about 95% I, I believe. :)

You said you sold all your cards, I assume this means you don't have any commons or something laying around. If you do you could always try switching out some cards and playtest to see if the balance is better.
A thing to notice about trying to rebalance the decks would be whether one deck is generally stonger than the other, or if one deck just has a few really good/ really weak cards that break the balance, (for instance I could read Sulfuric Vortex was really good in SvsT). If it's the second you should probably start off by replacing bad cards with useful ones. After that I would try to give the weak deck some more powerful cards to match the good decks powerful cards.
If it's the first it's a bit more difficult to balance, but I would probably do it by switching out some of the worsts cards with some better ones and see if that did the job.
The last thing to notice is the kind of cards you play. It might be that one deck lacks answers for the other deck's cards, so you might put in some cards to deal with those (like if a deck has too little creature removal, too little artifact/enchantment removal or too few ways to deal with flying creatures).

Again, I don't know the decks, so you will need to make most of these observations yourself or get help from someone who knows more about the decks.

I believe your advice is sound (and yes, I do have a few cards lying around here and there), but I think that I might go overboard with the tweaking. I've attempted this in the past and honestly, every time I touch a deck it becomes too powerful. This resulted in an arms race of sorts until neither of the decks resembled the original duel decks very much. I would prefer to leave the decks untouched and instead rely on your opinions on which deck is more powerful so that I may use the weaker one for myself.

[Randomguy]

I have a few more rules questions:

On the battlefield under my control is a Nebelgast Herald. (ability: Whenever it or another spirit under my control enters the battlefield I can tap the target creature an opponent controls.)

Under my opponents control is a Somberwald Sage with an artifact that grants hexproof equipped to it that costs 2 mana.

If I play a spell queller and use its ability to exile the artifact that grants hexproof, could I then tap the Sage because of the Nebelgast's ability? Or do the Nebelgast's ability and the Spell Queller's ability resolve simultaneously, not one after another, so I wouldn't be able to tap it?


Completely unrelated question:

Under my control are 3 1/1 creatures, and I have 3 life. Under my opponents control is an Assembled Alphas, and he has 2 life.
I attack with all of my creatures. He blocks one of them with the Assembled Alphas. So who wins? Does the combat damage resolve first, or the creature ability that resolves when the Assembled Alphas block?

[tgva8889]

Well, you can't use Spell Queller to exile artifacts from the battlefield, as cards on the battlefield can't be spells. Spells only exist on the stack, when they are being cast but before they resolve. But, if you had a spirit which did destroy the artifact when it entered the battlefield, like Yuki-Onna, you wouldn't be able to target the creature with the Herald's ability because the ability would go on the stack at the same time as your Yuki-Onna's ability, at which point the artifact would not be destroyed and thus the Sage would still have Hexproof. So I guess the answer to your question is "you can't do that, even if Spell Queller worked the way you thought."

For your second question, you would lose, because there's a space between when blockers are declared and when combat damage is dealt when abilities that trigger go on the stack and players can play spells or abilities. So once your opponent blocks, their Assembled Alphas would trigger and (presuming neither player played any effects in response) deal damage to you and your creature, causing you to lose the game before your creatures can do combat damage. An example of this ruling actually sort of came up at the most recent Pro Tour, when Luis Scott-Vargas successfully defeated his opponent by using the card Give No Ground to allow his Assembled Alphas to block 7 of his opponent's creatures, which caused them to take 21 damage before their creatures even got to do combat damage.

[digiman619]

Well, we got a good look at Kaladesh. Here are some takeaways:
[url-=Saheeli]http://imgur.com/TXfx8w2[/url]
[url=Energyhttps://i.redditmedia.com/VnZK3vIiHND44OAYjyTyqblA9OW6p5TWTVdPsA_WwsU.png?w= 479&[/url]
https://i.redditmedia.com/INLm4b3uJUi4QU4H-TgXtXNSL7JBl47-5mHtgtO78mw.png?w=325&
https://i.redditmedia.com/vnYTU-mgiiJxRRzm7-9EiZeYtuqtu5zuUBLW7UwtYyE.png?w=483&

Spoiler: New creature type

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And most importantly: http://mythicspoiler.com/kld/cards/depalapilotexemplar.html

[Dhavaer]

Spoiler: New Land Cycle

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Enemy Fastlands! I knew it!

[Bucky]

I found an infinite combo for the new Conspiracy draft:

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Arcane Savant revealing Gleam of Resistance
Caller of the Untamed revealing Arcane Savant
Regal Behemoth, 3x Voyaging Satyr for mana

Self converts by giving the mana creatures +∞/+∞

Can we do it without relying on draft pools, though?

[Ionbound]

So apparently LSV is retiring from Pro MTG and joining the coverage team. Thoughts?

[Grytorm]

No idea. But I am slightly disappointed that in Kaladesh they went with Pilot instead of Rigger.

[Shadow of the Sun]

So apparently LSV is retiring from Pro MTG and joining the coverage team. Thoughts?

As long as he keeps streaming and doing video content, I think this is actually a good thing.

Randy Buehler recently retired. And, I like Randy, but he's been out of touch with the game for about 10 years. LSV is an up to date player and knows his stuff.

[dragonsamurai77]

So apparently LSV is retiring from Pro MTG and joining the coverage team. Thoughts?

Not retiring, just taking a year off. He plans to go back to playing competitively in a year, and even got Wizards to defer his Platinum status until then.

[tgva8889]

I found an infinite combo for the new Conspiracy draft:

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Arcane Savant revealing Gleam of Resistance
Caller of the Untamed revealing Arcane Savant
Regal Behemoth, 3x Voyaging Satyr for mana

Self converts by giving the mana creatures +∞/+∞

Can we do it without relying on draft pools, though?

Yes, assuming you're allowed to have whatever you want in play or hand:

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Manaplasm
Selvala, Heart of the Wilds
Besmirch (or Gleam of Resistance) in hand
Into the Void in hand
Mnemonic Wall in hand
Stunt Double (or a second Mnemonic Wall, it really doesn't matter for this one) in hand
Mana sources that generate 4UG (I think minimum cards required here is 4, if that matters.)

If you have Manaplasm and Selvala in play, you can play a Mnemonic Wall (4U), tap Selvala for RRRRRG (4UG), play Besmirch targeting Selvala floating RRG, tap Selvala again for UUUUUURRG, play Stunt Double, play Besmirch again (floating URRG), then tap Selvala for 16 mana (1 base+5+3+4+3), for a total of 20, which is enough to play Into the Void, Wall, Stunt Double, and Besmirch again with mana floating (4+5+4+3=18, leaving 2 left over, 1 is necessary to start the loop again). You then generate mana at an infinitely increasing rate by making an infinitely large creature, and eventually steal all creatures temporarily before attacking for a billion. You will have to attack with Selvala, though, if she's untapped.

I believe this requires the fewest number of cards without relying on any draft matters cards. Amusingly, it also only requires 1 card that is new in Conspiracy: Take the Crown; you can replace Besmirch with Gleam of Resistance and replace the Stunt Double with a second Wall and it doesn't change anything. Gleam might be better because it also makes Selvala have infinite power, so at least your opponent has to have 2 removal spells. You can also use Besmirch with Echoing Boon, though, which is totally unnecessary but hilarious.

So using draft cards is less total cards (9 vs. 10) if you are a master of draft and manage to draft all those cards. Although amusingly, my combo requires less rares but 1 mythic, so if you happen to draft Selvala, you can actually try to do this since the other pieces are 2 uncommons and a bunch of commons.

[Bucky]

There's something funny going on with the Kaladesh Planeswalker previews.

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The official card image gallery shows off two particular new planeswalkers: Nissa, Vital Force and Chandra, Torch of Defiance.

The planeswalker deck previews also show off two new planeswalkers: Nissa, Nature's Artisan and Chandra, Pyrogenius.

All of them have the Kaladesh mythic rarity symbol.

[Shadow of the Sun]

There's something funny going on with the Kaladesh Planeswalker previews.

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The official card image gallery shows off two particular new planeswalkers: Nissa, Vital Force and Chandra, Torch of Defiance.

The planeswalker deck previews also show off two new planeswalkers: Nissa, Nature's Artisan and Chandra, Pyrogenius.

All of them have the Kaladesh mythic rarity symbol.

The planeswalker preview decks are sort of a learning product. Those planeswalkers will be legal in Standard, but you won't be able to get them from Kaladesh boosters. And, to be honest, they're both pretty bad.

[unseenmage]

So has anyone else noticed a distinct difference in the quality/quality control of non-Standard format MtG products?

Got my hands on a whole lot of Conspiracy 2 and Eternal Masters cards recently and I had to test them to see if they were fakes. Turns out they were just shodilly produced.

First I thought the cards felt light, like really light, compared to older cards. Then I noticed they were bowing quite a lot. To the point where after sorting by color the stack of cards, now reorganized would threaten to tip because so many cards on top of the pile were bowed. There were also stark discolorations; many of the black cards were a muddy green instead. Lastly, and this is what made me finally go reeducate myself about counterfeit detection, I could see a clear seam on the edges, especially at the corners, of the cards.

Turns out these cards are legit, just poorly made.
When I drafted Copnspiracy 2 we had a lot of uncut corners and misprints. Nothing major. Certainly nothing worth any value. But enough that it left us all wondering where our favorite cards had been so poorly crafted.

Anybody else have similar experience?

[Bucky]

Remember Restoration Angel?

Spoiler: Kaladesh

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They're reprinting it with +1 Power, but no flash. Sound like a fair tradeoff?

Oh, and they added 1W its cost because it's an uncommon rather than a rare.

[Dhavaer]

Remember Restoration Angel?

Spoiler: Kaladesh

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They're reprinting it with +1 Power, but no flash. Sound like a fair tradeoff?

Oh, and they added 1W its cost because it's an uncommon rather than a rare.

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They also removed the 'non-angel' limitation. So if you have two and a panharmonicon you can go infinite. Reflector Mage/Black Gearhulk for a boardwipe, Thraben Inspector for infinite clues, a whole bunch of options for infinite energy.

[Bucky]

Yeah, we already have our single set infinite combo.

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2x Wispweaver Angel: infinite ETBs
Conversion requires two steps but has several options:
Decoction Module for infinite energy and any of several converters (e.g. Territorial Gorger) for an infinite damage attack.
Panharmonicon and Gonti for a mill kill or Filigree Familiar for infinite life.

[Bucky]

More responses to Kaladesh spoilers.

Spoiler: Land

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Aether Hub obsoletes Tendo Ice Bridge.

Inventor's Fair also looks Eternal playable. 4 mana is a lot, but it's grabbing Cranial Plating or Etched Champion in modern, Grindstone or Time Vault in Vintage and Relic of Progenitus everywhere.

Spoiler: Thriving cycle

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This cycle looks quite pushed as aggressive options. They're at about half Zendikar landfall levels of "better on offense".

However, the white and green options are fine on defense by Limited standards, if the energy is used for value elsewhere.

Spoiler: Gearhulk cycle

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I see these as fixed Titans. Wizards appears to have learned not to grossly over-stat their value mythics.

[TiaC]

Well, a friend just talked me into a Conspiracy draft, which was fun. I opened 2x Show and Tell as well as a Platinum angel and a Birds of Paradise.

Anyway, I was thinking of starting up my Vanishing Three Card Blind again. Would anyone be interested?

Vanishing Three Card Blind is a format where everyone submits a three card deck and that's all the cards they get. There is no hidden information, you don't lose for being unable to draw, and all random effects go against their owner. This results in an entirely deterministic game. So, I'll take all the decks, run them against each other and the deck with the best record wins. Then, the cards of that deck (minus a few evergreen lands) are added to the ban list and the format evolves. You can look over the linked thread to see how it plays.

One change I'm considering is removing all the special "cards" like the planes and Vanguard avatars. They make the format weird, so I think I'll keep them to special rounds.

Edit: Because the first few rounds are really degenerate, I was thinking of continuing with the ban list from the previous thread. I've already received decks for the first few rounds from one player.

[Bucky]

A newly spoiled pair of Kaladesh cards fails the Yavimaya Wurm test:

Spoiler: Kaladesh

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Sky Skiff < Smuggler's Copter

While failures aren't exactly rare, they usually happen to vanilla-ish commons that aren't spoiled so early.

[tgva8889]

I always liked TCB when I used to play it on the old Wizards boards, even though I was always very bad at it. I remember we used to do weekly weird formats which was fun.

[Ninjaman]

Three card blind was a lot of fun.
I am in favor of banning special cards.
I think we should be starting over with no ban list.