Civ 5 GMR 16 Reject Earth Edition

[Nerd-o-rama]

Spoiler: Carthage

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The good news is that if the Dutch plan is Gunboat Diplomacy, that can be fairly easily countered by chewing up his units in wars. I'll feel a lot more comfortable once everyone has frigates and we can maintain a balance of power that way. I can only make them by buying them, but that will shortly cease to be any sort of hardship at all for me.

And indeed, I plan on embracing Truth, Justice, Freedom, Reasonably Priced Love, and a Hard-boiled Egg. I have absolutely no problem working with other ideologies, though. Let's just avoid putting up a World Ideology later.

As for the World Congress...passing Standing Army Tax is always a gamble. It basically negates Gunboat Diplomacy, but it also makes maintaining units for effective containment difficult. Cultural Heritage Sites doesn't look like a bad choice for anyone since the World Wonders are spread out, but it obviously favors people who are going for culture victories, which could be anyone. Given that Illven put it up, and he's timing Radio for right before a WC vote he could use on International Games, he might actually be going for that. Or that's a coincidence and I'm paranoid.

On balance, it's probably worth supporting Cultural Heritage Sites (helps everyone) and opposing Standing Army Tax (hurts me the least and Illven the second-least given our incomes, and I'd rather work together with the less financial-juggernaut powers.

[Illven]

Spoiler: Carthage;Shishnarfne

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The Dutch kingdom has sent you a deal.

One of our spare luxes for 7 GPT.

~King William of Orange.

[Nerd-o-rama]

My home internet was disconnected and I'm not sure when it's going to be back up. I'm going to turn off the turn timer shortly.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Turn timer will go back on shortly. Datsmore, now would be a good time to take your turn.

[Illven]

Spoiler: Spectator update

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I may or may not get to the picture part of the update today.

However it's past turn 150 and I neglected to tell you my plans.

I have Alhambra, I'm going to go autocracy, use my city states to prevent the world congress from turning against me, I'll use spies to bribe city states away from less attentive players and the AI.

Then, I will go autocracy, take the +15 unit experience tenet, and drop blitz x-com's on my enemies face.

[Illven]

Spoiler: Spectator update

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“Citizens of the Dutch. Here we stand on a day of greatness.” William started. The citizens were aghast. Oh, not the words. At the former King William. He was a mess. His left arm looked so badly broken that it was a wonder he did not collapse on the spot. The rest of his body, looked scant better. “The French nation. At first the Dutch and the French understood diplomacy. Understood common trade. But then Napoleon was lost, assassinated by factions in his cabinet that desired the ruin of civilized people. First they forced the Dutch into a state of war with the French citizens. Although we did not want to. I saw we had no choice. And so we fought. And we grieved for every man lead to ruin by the French royal guard. On both sides. French and Dutch.” He gave a heaving sigh, and nearly collapsed on the podium.

“And we took the survivors in. They, once the dark influence was dealt with. Bent the knee, and proclaimed I, King William of Orange, King of all the Americas. Together we prospered.” He continued. “But.... We thought that the splinter fraction of the French was dealt with, it's members killed in combat, or executed under Dutch law. We were wrong.”

“They. Those damnable beings. They poisoned my daughter, poisoned her with honeyed words and with dreams of a kingdom.” William continued tears in his eyes. “She lead them in, she sent away the guards. My own daughter, tried to have me assassinated in the night.” William replied pounding the podium with all the strength he could muster. “But. I. Survived.” He snarled out. “I. Still. Live. My daughter, and the assassins were executed.”

“But we are in danger. Complacency led us to believe the splinter French had been dealt with. We were wrong once. We will not be wrong again. My body. Is racked and ruined. By the poisons, the knives, the clubs of my would be killers. But my will has never been stronger. No longer am I King William of Orange. No longer am I King of all the Americas. No. The Dutch destiny is greater then a simple kingdom.” He continued.

“Today. We move, from a simple kingdom, to the GREAT! DUTCH! EMPIRE! I am no longer King William of Orange. I am Emperor William, defender of all Americas! Troops will be trained, as they were for the war with the French. We will find all those who sympathize with the splinter French, we will eliminate these threats to the American people wherever they may be found!”

“But I cannot do this alone. I who have lost so most, sacrificed so much for my citizens. I need your help. Join the great army. Tell the police who seems to harbor splinter French sympathizes. For If they would attempt to kill me, they are no friends of the Dutch Empire. They. They sort to kill a man. But they cannot kill an idea! And that idea and the nation that burns bright with that idea, will never fade into the night!”

Today in Dutch History as the Dutch people took on the ideology of autocracy.

Spoiler: Polynesia;Silverraptor

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As we discussed by other means. (Steam chat) I will not build the Eiffel tower, in exchange you will agree to go to war with the Ottomans should I find myself in war with them, and you will give your full votes for world ideology autocracy. Should the world congress's other proposal be ruinous to your people, we can discuss other terms then.

~Emperor William. Defender of all Americas.

Spoiler: Shishfarine;Carthage

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A turn or so ago, it said the deal was no longer valid. Did you obtain a copy of my spare luxury? Or is my trade department screwing up?

~Emperor William. Defender of all Americas.

[Shishnarfne]

Spoiler: Shishnarfne;Carthage

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A turn or so ago, it said the deal was no longer valid. Did you obtain a copy of my spare luxury? Or is my trade department screwing up?

~Emperor William. Defender of all Americas.

Spoiler: Ilven; the Netherlands

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I found someone willing to swap luxuries straight up. Your offer is greatly appreciated, however.
What are your thoughts on the World Congress? I hope that we can avoid needless dispute over a preferred ideology in the future.

Spoiler: spectators

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I'm two turns away from finishing Oxford, one turn away from discovering electricity, so I'll be picking ideology shortly. Probably Order, to get Worker's Faculties and more science.
I probably need to take down Hiawatha (or someone) to have a reasonable chance of victory. To do that, I want Frigates. To get Frigates, I need Iron. I'm way overstretched on Iron thanks to the generous gift of Berserkers. Lots of Berserkers. So I "need" Gunpowder to promote them. Is it really going to be as much as twenty turns to prep? Oof. Well, Hiawatha has lots of Wonders that would help if I bring him down. The Great Wall is going to be annoying, though.

[Illven]

Spoiler: Shishnarfne;Carthage

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We of course would have been willing to agree to a lux for a lux, but we didn't see you having any spares that you could offer us.

As for my thoughts on the world congress. I can't be assured that another world ideology won't be proposed. Either in the near future, or the distant future. Certainly it is likely that Venice would try to bribe votes towards whatever ideology (likely freedom) that they choose, just as they attempted to bribe votes to name them host of the world congress. Alternatively the Ottomans may do so as well. I'm not angry that they did so, but another bribe is not a possibility that I can overlook. I have a duty to my people. The best defense is to propose world ideology autocracy now. This will prevent another nation from proposing a world ideology as our delegates discuss the merits of autocracy. Ideally it would be passed through world congress, and thus it would first need to be repealed before another world ideology could be proposed.

If I could be convinced that no world ideology will ever be proposed by any nation to the world congress or any future version of it (OOC: United nations) under any circumstances, I would not need to propose it, but right now I am not.

With that information in mind, are you okay with world ideology autocracy passing? Are you against it? Would you be willing to vote for it?


~Emperor William. Defender of all Americas.

[Shishnarfne]

Spoiler: Ilven; the Netherlands

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(Well, someone else was interested in our extra Citrus... Sorry.)

We would consider the proposal of naming Autocracy as "World Ideology" as a direct attack on our interests. We would oppose it with every resource at our disposal.
Our immortal Queen says that it takes more than power and military might to make a great nation.
She has been hearing much from a couple of scholars named "Marks" and "Angles" regarding the benefits of empowering the working citizens.

[Illven]

Spoiler: Shishnarfne;Carthage

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We understand that it takes more then a great military to make a nation, but it does take a great military to defend a nation.

As it is, your lack of an offer to never propose world ideology order, and give full delegate support to shooting it down to mine not proposing autocracy, is evidence to me that we need to at least propose it, to stop a world ideology freedom or order from being passed itself.

~Emperor William. Defender of all Americas.

Spoiler: Ottomans;The snark

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With radio blasting through the airwaves of dutch lands, the world congress will become eligible to propose a world ideology, next time we meet.

What are your thoughts on ideology?

~Emperor William. Defender of all Americas.

Spoiler: Japan:Datsmore

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With radio blasting through the airwaves of dutch lands, the world congress will become eligible to propose a world ideology, next time we meet.

Would you be willing to aid us in getting world ideology autocracy passed. We are willing to offer any alternative researchers access to our capital for you if you vote for it. (OOC I'll allow you to send a spy in my capital, it'll be your responsibility to tell me to move my spy when you're about to steal, but it'd be free guaranteed tech steals.)

~Emperor William. Defender of all Americas.

Spoiler: Venice;Nerd-o-rama

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You keep getting my city states to declare you as their ally. Are you lucking into quests, intentionally completing quests for them, or bribing them?

~Emperor William. Defender of all Americas.

Spoiler: Silver-raptor;Polynesia

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Didn't want you to feel left out.

~Emperor William. Defender of all Americas.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Spoiler: Illven;Netherlands

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What can I say? Everyone loves Music With Rocks In.

Seriously I completed like six city-state quests at once with my first Great Musician. Hadn't realized any of them were yours.

Possible edits to come after I take my turn, sounds like Things Are Happening again.


Ah yes. As per usual, the combination of a major university with the technology for distributing music has developed society in a rapid and wholly unexpected direction. Please forgive the noise in the background, Sioni Bod Da has managed to convince everyone to follow a new form of government and they're rather excited. I should probably move to my prepared cell in case something unexpected happens.

Spoiler: Carthage (I'm done trying to spell peoples' names today)

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So between you, me, and the Ottomans, we still have enough votes to control the World Congress. I'm addressing you two rather than involving Polynesia and Japan because I think that Illven is more likely to offer beneficial deals to people he doesn't consider threats, and also Datsmore keeps missing turns.

Now it's time to talk Ideologies. I'm obviously going Freedom and make no secret of that, but if you two want to go Order since you're playing Wide I'll vote for that rather than letting Illven install Autocracy. Also, I'm positive he's going for Diplo or Domination now, and either way hes going to want World Ideology. I will happily vote for Order to keep my friends happy and the playing field a little more even, if that's the way you decide to go. I've got enough of a happiness buffer even before Ideology that no one in my country will care.

Comments are mostly identical but split for the sake of counterintelligence.

Spoiler: Ottomans

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So between you, me, and Carthage, we still have enough votes to control the World Congress. I'm addressing you two rather than involving Polynesia and Japan because I think that Illven is more likely to offer beneficial deals to people he doesn't consider threats, and also Datsmore keeps missing turns.

Now it's time to talk Ideologies. I'm obviously going Freedom and make no secret of that, but if you two want to go Order since you're playing Wide I'll vote for that rather than letting Illven install Autocracy. Also, I'm positive he's going for Diplo or Domination now, and either way hes going to want World Ideology. I will happily vote for Order to keep my friends happy and the playing field a little more even, if that's the way you decide to go. I've got enough of a happiness buffer even before Ideology that no one in my country will care.

Comments are mostly identical but split for the sake of counterintelligence.

Spoiler: Japan

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You still with us, man? You've missed a couple turns. Anything I can do to help out on the tech front? Now that we're Modern people are probably going to start getting aggressive.

Spoiler: Polynesia

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So out of neighborly curiosity, where are you looking at going for the endgame here? I'll understand if you don't shout "AT YOU, BRO!" and then DoW me even if you're planning on it, but I'm wondering if there's anything we can do to cooperate against the bigger powers.

[Silverraptor]

Spoiler: Venice

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Culture, mainly. While I have a big military, I only made 20% of them. City states gifted me the rest.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Spoiler: Polynesia

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Cool. Found some coastline for moai then?

Since we're at the Ideology part of the game, can I ask which you're going for? I'm definitely taking Freedom next turn, and that seems to be the best for a culture game in general.

[Illven]

Hey, Silverraptor needed me to revert for reasons, and I did, but it won't let me, and now it won't let me take my turn to see if the reasons are actually reasons.

HALP.

It is now Silver's turn

Fixed I think.

[Illven]

Spoiler: Sunday spectator update

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We are told the Venice people have entered the modern era.



As Melbourne tells us they no longer are looking for investments.



As Ormus desires that we build Eiffel tower.



Our ships continue exploring the world.



As Rotterdam's guards report no problems.






Our great scientist wait to be called.



The palace guard reports no french splinter forces.



As our scout looks for more city state.




Dutch science that will serve for the defense of the Dutch people.



Amsterdam works on a stocks exchange.



Rotterdam works on a harbor to connect the South America's to the North.



Utrecht continues on a public school.



Orleans continues on an observatory for the stars.



Paris works on a harbor as well.



As does Lyon.




A new Dutch Empire has been formed!



As the first Amsterdam congress is stalled.



The scholars say we are best in approval and land.





Here we see the tourism wars.










Our info on our nation's foes.

[Silverraptor]

Spoiler: Polynesia

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Cool. Found some coastline for moai then?

Since we're at the Ideology part of the game, can I ask which you're going for? I'm definitely taking Freedom next turn, and that seems to be the best for a culture game in general.

Spoiler: Venice

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Yeah, pretty sure I'm leaning towards freedom myself.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Ankh-Morpork has embraced Freedom!

...it turns out all I needed to do was change the nameplates that said "Patrician" to ones that say "President". Someone should really have a talk with these people about the difference between representative democracy and corporate oligarchy. Or better yet, not.

[Illven]

Any idea why the world congress is being held up, do we need to get a player for the Iroquois to vote or something?

[Illven]

Would it be possible to get a turn timer extension from Friday to Monday?

[Nerd-o-rama]

No idea on the first one and sure, I can shut it off on Friday.

[Shishnarfne]

No idea on the first one and sure, I can shut it off on Friday.

I'm going to second the request for a turn timer shut-off. I do not expect to be able to squeeze in my turn before leaving for travel.

I'm afraid that I don't trust the AI to pick the right tenants in Order...

Spoiler: Illven, the Netherlands

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My apologies for coming across a hair harsh on the World Congress proposals: I understand that you would treat a proposal of any World Ideology besides Autocracy as a direct attack on your interests.
Would you object to the proposal of World Religion: Buddhism? I know it's my religion, but I think that World Ideology is very, very powerful.
Is there some way that I could compensate you for this if this is voted in?

Spoiler: nerdorama, Venice

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Is it acceptable if I choose to nominate Buddhism as World Religion? I would still treat opposing World Ideology: Autocracy as my first priority.

I'm thinking that I might try a bit Cultural... but I'd have to "liberate" some Wonders from the Iroquois to have a chance.
(Had I nabbed Sacred Sites, this would be easier, but that's long since past. I'm not complaining about being able to Faith-buy science buildings!)

[Illven]

I got your message Shishnarfne, I'll answer it on my turn.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Spoiler: Carthage

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Honestly, it's the de facto World Religion already, and I can't say no to holy buildings in my puppets, either. I think Omnianism is well-crafted, but we lack the missionary zeal of the Buddhists, weirdly. I won't oppose such a motion.

Also, turn timer remove, own skipped turn quietly reverted. No one will ever know.

[Illven]

Thanks to Illven's elite spying techniques. (That I've totally used, because EUI totally doesn't prevent it) I know know what technologies you have, and the ability to turn back time!

[Nerd-o-rama]

I'm pretty sure, due to us both going Oxford Radio at the same time, that we have identical tech trees, I just also have History Monks.

[Illven]

I'm pretty sure, due to us both going Oxford Radio at the same time, that we have identical tech trees, I just also have History Monks.

I learned a technique in GMR 8, that tells me practically any tech a player I'm spying on has.

[Nerd-o-rama]

That seems a tad exploity. Then again just spying on someone normally will eventually get you that information.

[Illven]

Well do we want to ban it. In all honesty I don't believe I've used it in this game, so...

Also I'm good with the turn timer going back up if Shish is.

Spoiler: Shishnarfne;Carthage

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I don't realistically believe that you can offer enough to get us to propose world religion Buddhism. At least not without supporting world ideology in turn.

We have resent our previous trade deal.

~Emperor William.

[Shishnarfne]

Yes, I have returned. The turn timer can go back up.

The Immortal Carthiginian Empire has announced the premise that those most worthy of the rewards of industry are those whose hands create it.
This Order of society has already greatly improved the mood on the streets of the cities of Carthage.
The recent development of Radio (via Oxford University's scholars) is believed responsible for the outpouring of new scientific discoveries, inspired (at least in part) by the generous gifts of the Buddhist theologians who seek an educated lay membership.

Spoiler: Ilven; the Netherlands

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We are not surprised that you are unwilling to support a World Religion other than your own. We do not expect you to do so. We were simply wondering if you might be willing to permit the benefits of added representation to our co-religionists (i.e. not actively opposing the measure) in exchange for some considerations.

The nomination of any ideology for being the "official" preference of the World Congress has (our scholars assure us) more profound impact than the World Religion. While we understand that you have no intention of permitting a hostile World Ideology to take effect, I wish to reassure you that I would consider World Ideology: Freedom to be as damaging to our nation (perhaps more so, in some ways) as World Ideology: Autocracy.
I offer an informal "truce" on this issue: I will refrain from proposing Order as World Ideology so long as you refrain from proposing Autocracy. Should a third party offer up World Ideology: Freedom, our nations would both seek to oppose its passage.

The Immortal and Divine Monarch Dido considers Ideology and Religion separate spheres of influence, with Ideology of greater immediate import.

Might we not seek out policies for the World Congress which benefit both our nations? Have you any to suggest?

[Nerd-o-rama]

Turn timer going back on later today. Been very busy over here.