[DragonsITP] Dragons, Dragons Everywhere! Redux OOC

[Grif]

So.. hmm.. where a dragon protector of dwarven kingdom can fit?
May I make up a little kingdom under Wealth influence?

Go right on ahead. You may need to be flexible in location, however.

[DJ Yung Crunk]

Were we meant to PM character ideas!?

Teacher, I didn't do my homework! I'm still trying to figure out the setting.

[Grif]

Were we meant to PM character ideas!?

Teacher, I didn't do my homework! I'm still trying to figure out the setting.

Not at all. It's just some wanted to get started early, and so wanted to get a feel what might be acceptable and what might not be. Really, no pressure, since we don't even have a IC thread up yet.

[Rater202]

Okay. I'm going to try and explain, one last time, if you still don't get it, I'm just going to leave-I don't want to, I want to play this character in this game, but if we can't come to an understanding then I will not find it enjoyable.

I plan to play a character called "Gormek the Gourmet." gormek is an "eater dragon" which i desribed earlier-They're smaller than most true dragons, have no natrual breath weapons, and no abillity to work spells. however, they can absorb some of the propeties of what they eat, with limits, and develop new abillities that way. This is an abillity I find interesting, and an abillityI've put thought into to keep it from being overpowered and overshadowing other characters.

This ability means that If I want to have Gormek develop a new ability, he has to eat something that gives him the ability. for certain magical abillties, this would necessitate him actually hunting down a magical creature-This would be equivalent to a training arc. This is not a bug, it is a feature, an arc where Gormek travels to a distant part of the continent to convince a phoenix to part with one of it's unfertilized eggs could be an interesting story, especially if the path between point A and point B is fraught with peril that will require him to travel with other, stronger dragons for safety.

So when people just skip a training arc and just instantly magically have a new power, it irks me greatly because I'm spending time and effort to make sure my character gains abilities it a realistic pace and in a way that result from or initiates interesting stories.

Being told to skip the training arc or show it in a flashback later does not solve the problem. It in fact raises more problems, becuase it means that either Gormek gains a new abillity with no explanation, or I have to cram a training arc into a flashback when there has not, in fact, been enough time for a training arc.

So, either I inore my characters abillity and have them get new stuff randomly.. or I get penalized for playing my character the way he was meant to be played and trying to tell the stories I want to tell.

Neither option appeal to me.

Not only that, but Gormek has a quirk-he believes that by cooking what he eats to perfection and pairing the food with ingredients that complement it, he will maximize the power he absorbs from the food-if I'm expected to skip over his "training arcs" then I never get to show off his quirk.

Another thing, if you do not pay attention to the stats on the character sheet, then I have no guarantee that anything about my character will matter-If we need to get the leader off one of the three kingdoms on our side, and I try to butter him up by arranging a gourmet feast-it says that Gormek is a gourmet chef of masterful skill in my sheet, because that's one of his things, but whoever is in charge of the humanoid kingdom could spit the food out, call it trash, and then we have to fight because he and four other players decided that'd be more fun and I got outvoted. this is much less likely to happen if people are paying attention to their own and each other's abilities.

Also, this is a game about telling stories-eventually it will get to be my turn to tell stories-If we ignore training arcs, then that;''s already one kind of story I can't tell. If you are all just allowed to make up abilities on the fly instead of defining them ahead of time and only adding to them after training arcs or other, in story justifications for new abilities, then I have no clue how to write stories for other characters.

Not to mention, if we completely ignore things like character sheets and pre-established abilities, then there is no way to fairly determine who wins if two PCs come into conflict and then you're just yelling at each other. You need to pay attention to that stuff to have any chance of coming to a decision.

So, that's why we need to put actual effort into our character sheets, That's why we need to write down our exact starting abilities,, and that's why we have to justify all changes in story before they are applied.

And also discussing new abilities in the OOC before anything IC happens, but that's obvious.

Is it really that hard to actually put effort into desgining your character's starting abilities and keeping your sheet up to date? Is it really that hard to justify your abilities in game before you have them? It's as easy as "hey, my character is an inventor, can he have "X" in his pocket" or "hey, i thought it'd be cool if my character cold do this with his breath, can we take a break after this story so he can practice it?"

[PurityIcekiller]

I have a character sheet ready. I decided to use a sheet similar to Grif's, but with the physical fields mostly rolled into the description.

Spoiler: Kiadre's Sheet

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Description
Name: Kiadre
Type: Water dragon

Description: Kiadre is sized somewhere between a Clydesdale and an Asian elephant. Her scales are dark blue and very smooth, with a lighter blue on her underside. Her eyes are a deep green. She has a webbed crest on the back of her neck and other bits of webbing on her ears and limbs. She has no horns, and her claws are short and retractable. Her tail is strong and resembles an ichthyosaur's. Her wings are short and work better in water than air; although she can fly, she is very clumsy at it. She tends to be slow and awkward on land, but can swim exceptionally well.

Personality: Kiadre's attitude is professional and dignified. She does her best to be polite, even to rude people, but can sometimes give rather sharp reprimands. Being raised by humanoids, she feels most comfortable around them, and tends to be wary of other dragons. In some ways, she sees herself as being one of the demihumans, or at least their equal, and expects to be treated as such. Her interests include exploring, studying, and collecting things.

Relationships: Once lived with the elvish sorceress Merala, but left to find her own way and has not made contact since.

History: A long time ago, on the western coast of Latium, the elvish sorceress Merala discovered an abandoned nest of water dragon eggs. Suspecting that the hatchlings probably wouldn't survive on their own, and wanting the opportunity to study the creatures further, she took a few eggs to raise herself. Most of them didn't make it, but one did hatch. Merala decided to name her new charge Kiadre and train her to be her familiar.

Little did Merala know that the little dragon was learning more than intended. After some time, Kiadre figured out how to read and speak the language of the Conclave, and from there started emulating the elves in other ways. She went from pet to apprentice, and it was clear she had no intention of stopping there; she mentioned that she eventually planned on becoming as respected as Merala was, whether by elvish society or elsewhere.

Once she had grown, Kiadre decided that she wasn't going to live in the sorceress's shadow any longer. She left her home and went her lone and solitary way. Since then, she has travelled along the coast, finding new experiences and meeting new people. She has yet to settle down anywhere; wanderlust just keeps driving her on.

Stats
Strength: Moderate
Dexterity: Poor
Constitution: Moderate
Intelligence: High
Wisdom: High
Charisma: High

Abilities
Water Breathing: Kiadre is capable of breathing water as well as air.
Water Jet: Breath weapon equivalent. After Kiadre inhales water, she can shoot it out in a powerful jet to stun prey or deter attackers. Nonlethal, but can exert a strong force.
Air Blast: Breath weapon equivalent. After Kiadre inhales air, she can shoot it out in a forceful gust. Similar to the water jet, but less powerful.
Arcane Lore: Although she doesn't cast spells, Kiadre's time as a sorceress's assistant left her with a good understanding of magic. She can notice magical fields or effects more easily, and identify them if they're not too subtle.
Tail Smack: Kiadre's preferred way of fighting on land is to give enemies a good clout with her tail. It feels like getting slapped with a fish, but more so.

Laconic version: A curious sea-dragon who tries to fit into humanoid society.

[cavalieredraghi]

snipped

I know where you are coming from Rater and I agree with you, but maybe you need to do what you have told me alot of times, and take a step make take a breather and then come back in?

[Artemis97]

Rater, I feel I need to apologize. What started as a philosophical disagreement has become... I don't know, but much more than I ever intended. I certainly do not want you to back away from a game you might enjoy. In fact, you seem like you would be a very thoughtful RPer and your character concept is quite interesting.

When I was talking about coming up with stuff on the fly, I wasn't meaning to just make up something to 'win' or that wouldn't make sense. It's just that I don't write everything down, and feel that needing to would stifle my creativity. If it's all set in stone, there's no wiggle room. I do plan to make a sheet and fill it out as best I can, but it would take a lot of effort for me to maintain it every time my character gained a new item or ability. That's just how I, personally, play the game. You don't have to play that way.

In FFRP I am under no obligations to define anything outside of RP. Conversely, you are not obligated to play fast and loose, and are free to write down everything you want. Others can play somewhere in the middle. It all works.

I think you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree and let that be the end of it. The last thing I want to do is push you away from playing in this game. Please don't leave on my account.

[cavalieredraghi]

Spoiler: Drixtel

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NameDrixtel
GenderMale
BodyGeneral Western style, large torso, quadruped, long tail extended neck.
HornsTwo curved horns that curve back toward the body, scaly whiskers extend from his face
claws Large strong claws, sharp enough to tear through steel easily.
Scale Color Golden hues
Size Huge, but not overly monsterous
Length 25ft from nose to tip of tail
wings Wings extend from mid torso, and extend all the way down to the tail like a long body like fins.
tail bordered by wings, inbetween is a spine that started from the base of the head.
Accesories

Description Drixtel s designed after a traditional Adult Gold dragon of D&D. He has yet to reach full age, and still have power to gain.

Personality Altruism to the extreme, always viewing his action as needing to be an example. He hope to start a city state around the area he would make his future lair. allowing this city state to be an example of virtue and justice.

stats
strength 19
agility10
Intelligent 18
Wisdom 18
Toughness 20
Charisma 28

Reputation
Goodness/evil 10
Compassion/cruelty10
Intimidation 7
Fame 3
Trustworthiness 10

Attacks
Claws
Tail
Wings
Fire Breath
Weakness Breath- drains the strengths of his opponent.
Polymorph- can change self, usually into a human noble.
amphibious- can breath and swim in water just as freely as air
Magic abilities
Fore sight- can see glimpses into the future.
magical fortification- can improve allies abilities with magical enchantments, giving them an edge nothing more.
detect food supply- can detect the location of nearby gemstones.

[Grif]

I made a document.

EDIT: cav, I forgot, I'll be dropping the reputation thing for now. It seems like a lot of busywork for no gain.

[Rater202]

Um, to the people posting character sheets, we still aren't settled on the stats-I'm still against stat numbers in free form instead of just saying how much your character can lift or how fast they can fly.

Even if we go with numbers, we still haven't determined what the numbers actually mean-10 is average, but what is average for a dragon?

@Artemis, apology accepted.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean no offence but I fail to see the point of the document.

[Grif]

I mean no offence but I fail to see the point of the document.

I like to use them as a central repository to store character sheets, rather than using a new thread.

[PurityIcekiller]

Whoa, Cav. Your dragon is better than mine in pretty much every way.

[cavalieredraghi]

Um, to the people posting character sheets, we still aren't settled on the stats-I'm still against stat numbers in free form instead of just saying how much your character can lift or how fast they can fly.

Even if we go with numbers, we still haven't determined what the numbers actually mean-10 is average, but what is average for a dragon?

Which is why we should discuss. We could do something similar to D&D and have 1 be a common human, and thus 10 being a common dragon, then up from there proves to be an increase in magnitude. however without discussion we won't come to an answer or resolve thought.

Better? He is just meant to be an adult Gold from D&D nothing else, he is not even a wyrm or great wyrm.

[Rater202]

...Most games I'm in use the OOC threads with links in the OPs or have usmake our own docs and link them.

Who exactly has the rights to edit the doc?

[Grif]

...Most games I'm in use the OOC threads with links in the OPs or have usmake our own docs and link them.

Who exactly has the rights to edit the doc?

Everyone. So feel free to add your own characters. And don't worry about vandalism. GDoc is pretty good at keeping backups and it's easy to revert changes.

[cavalieredraghi]

Anyone who can view can edit, did you miss my post?

[Rater202]

And I get ninja'd by an example of why we should just say what we can do instead of using arbitrary numbers.

And then ninja'd again.

And anyway, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with a central document that anyone can edit-Vandalism might be eay to revert... If yu spot it fast enough. If you don't notice that one of your profiles has been vandalized until after dozens of edits have been made, you can't exactly revert the doc to a prevandalized state without screwing over all the other players.

[cavalieredraghi]

Then what can we use instead of Numbers?

[Grif]

And I get ninja'd by an example of why we should just say what we can do instead of using arbitrary numbers.

And then ninja'd again.

Then what can we use instead of Numbers?

I believe Rater mention just a vague description of what they can do. You can scroll up and read his examples a few pages back. Problem is, these sort of description get very unwieldy real quick, and does not easily convey information at a glance, as numbers would.

[cavalieredraghi]

And we have used Numbers before with such FF as DBitp.

[Rater202]

Then what can we use instead of Numbers?

Instead of saying Strength-*number* Say how strong you are. Can you lift ten tons? Then say lift ten tons? If you're very intelligent and well educated, don't say int 20-30, say "My character is well educated in X, Y, and Z subjects and very intelligent by human standards."

Don't put numbers on it, just say what you can do.

Cav, DBitp is a game in a setting where calculated numbers representing a character's raw power are an actual thing in the setting and we have examples of what they mean.

We don't have in universe Power Levels here.

[Grif]

And we have used Numbers before with such FF as DBitp.

Quite so. But I think Rater's point on normal is very relevant now. We need to establish a baseline of what a dragon can or cannot do before we use any sort of numerical system. I'll think more about this while at work, but in the meantime, feel free to suggest stuff.

[cavalieredraghi]

Instead of saying Strength-*number* Say how strong you are. Can you lift ten tons? Then say lift ten tons? If you're very intelligent and well educated, don't say int 20-30, say "My character is well educated in X, Y, and Z subjects and very intelligent by human standards."

Don't put numbers on it, just say what you can do.

Cav, DBitp is a game in a setting where calculated numbers representing a character's raw power are an actual thing in the setting and we have examples of what they mean.

We don't have in universe Power Levels here.

But we can make In Universe PLs here, which would be easier, and less restricting then just outwardly stating everything. We shouldn't know everything about our characters, we should learn as we play.

I have suggested, that maybe 1 is the eqvualent of a common human ability, which then helps judge what a 10 maybe for a dragon if that is common for a dragon.

[Lord Raziere]

Ok, lets just get this sheet done then:

Spoiler: Zarakkan

Show

Description
Name: Zarakkan
Gender: Fluid, but probably male
Body: standard but slim
Head: Smooth
Horns:long horns
Claws: sharp like razors
Scale Color: blue
Size: His size is about one of a particularly large car, but he is lean
Body length: probably on the long side
Wings: Yes he can fly with leathery wgins
Tail: Long, and while it doesn't naturally have a spike, he has a tail-spike tech attchment
Breath: He breathes steam.
Additional modifications: His front claws are human-like enough to build any tools a mad inventor can

Detailed description:
Zarakkan is a lean blue dragon with red eyes. He has two horns growing out of the back of his head, front claws with which he can build stuff, back legs for standing, and he has a harness with a gem on his back for technomagical defensive purposes. He wears goggles on his head and a power claw on his right claw.

Personality:
Zarakkan is eccentric to say the least. He loves talking about magitech and has a manic genius when it comes to solving problems with it. He will go off tangents about things he remembers from his travels, an has a certain duality of fire and ice to him, bouncing back and forth between passion and logic and often intermixing the two for his science, and he truly believes in individualistic expression and despite the darkness of his life he doesn't let stuff get to him.

Relationship:
-Has an Archenemy, known as Kirnarraz, a black dragon who equals his genius at magitech but does not have Zarakkan's morals

History:
He grew up under parents that had opposite personalities. One was his mother, Enshana who was calm, caring, compassionate and patient, teaching an educating him. The other was his father Zarnassil who was brutal, bullying, abusive, quick-tempered and darwinistic. Zarakkan loved his mother far more than his father, and soon in an argument Enshana was killed by Zarnassil, and Zarakkan in revenge crafted a weapon to kill Zarnassil and succeeded. He then left his parents lair behind after burying his mother, not wanting to stay in such a sorrowful place

He then traveled through the nations and learned how to make magitech, growing up on his own wits and ingenuity. However he was soon attacked by dragon slayers and he had to learn to fight against them, using any tactic he can to get away and fight on his terms. He soon met Kirnarraz, another dragon hunted by them and together they defeated this band of dragon slayers by working together. They soon discovered they shared a common interest in magitech.

But soon Kirnarraz grew jealous of Zarakkan's genius and wanted to outdo him. He built a monstrous machine to kill Zarakkan to prove his magitech was greater and Zarakkan was appalled by his lack of morality, and in the ensuing fight Zarakkan blew up the machine and defeated Kirnarraz, but Kirnarraz survived. In fact over Zarakkan's life he would attack twice more, each time Zarakkan defeating him, but Zarakkan losing whatever base or workshop he had managed to set up in that time and thus forcing him to start over from scratch, all Zarakkan knows is that Kirnarraz has annoying tendency to not die.

However Zarakkan doesn't give up so easily, and now sets out to build more magitech, to establish another laboratory, and begin inventing, and hopefully making something interesting happen, maybe help people along the way! His age um....hm, well is at the very least considered an adult dragon by now and has seen enough to be worldly and knowledgeable about the world.

Stats
A 10 would be considered average amongst dragonkind. 20 would be considered first-rate. 30 means you’re probably the best in the world at this. Rate yourself accordingly.
Strength: 5
Agility: 17
Intelligence: 25
Wisdom: 9
Toughness: 9
Charisma: 18

Reputation
Unless stated otherwise, you can leave these out. Your resident storyteller will assign them based on your backstory. Rate on a scale of -10 to 10.
Goodness/Evilness:
Compassion/Cruelty:
Intimidation:
Fame:
Trustworthiness:

Attacks
Steam Breath Attack:
Can fire a really hot jet of steam at his foes. This can burn people, so don't think its harmless.

Steam Breath Cloaking:
Can fire his steam breath at the ground instead to cause a smokescreen so that he can escape from a fight

Magitech Harness:
Wears a harness around himself that manipulates light. It was two functions: the first is to turn him invisible at his command, and the second is to fire lightning from the gem placed on top of his back and set into the harness on both his command and to automatically blast it any fool who dares to attack from behind or jump on his back, as a defensive measure

Tail Spike Weapon:
Has put a chainsaw tail spike weapon his tail to make sure anyone who approaches from behind gets a stabbing. with a tail chainsaw.

Power Claw:
A steampunk glove-claw that fits on his right claw. Really packs a punch, and is what he used to kill his father with.

Goggles:
They do nothing. Currently.

High Temperature Resistance:
Can withstand incredibly high temperatures that humans cannot

Amphibious:
He can breath under water indefinitely

though to be honest, 25 for Int is a conservative estimate for Zarakkan, he could easily be 30 with the level of inventiveness, but no matter what he is like a mad inventor, he is at Spark-levels of mad science so....really high intelligence.

[Rater202]

Hmm, I still don't like nubers in freeform, not like, with predefined stats.

Seriously, whats wrong with just saying how strong they are?

Or if we're gonna use a scale, how about we use a scale we already have values and examples for? I'm quite fond of the Nasu scale, that's easy to hack.

[cavalieredraghi]

We don't need to hack everything. I am using numbers to help my understanding of my character. I don't know how strong my character actually is. Just because one does not like numbers should not limit the other players who do. Let me represent my character as I see fit, and vice versa

[Rater202]

When I said hack, what I meant was "get rid of the pluses and minuses so that it's easier to grock."

[cavalieredraghi]

When I said hack, what I meant was "get rid of the pluses and minuses so that it's easier to grock."

IF we all use a system then it is not free form. I should be allowed to make my character as I see fit, yet what you are asking for is not free form then.

[Rater202]

I never said anything about using a game system-I said maybe if we'r e going to use actual ratings, why not use a preexisting rating scale that we know what the number means.

[cavalieredraghi]

What is this pre-existing rating scale then that you are suggesting?