Selling your Soul at a Premium: The Warlock's Guide to Power

[MeeposFire]

Talk to your DM. If they're okay with having your Patron adventuring with you, it's fine. Most Patrons don't pal around with their 3rd-level minions, however. It's more likely that your Patron speaks to you through your familiar on a regular basis, your familiar is impersonating your Patron, or maybe (if you want to roleplay a slightly cracked character) you just think your familiar is your Patron. All of these options make for excellent campaign/roleplaying material. But whatever you decide, you should definetely run it past your DM first.

To go along with this while you certainly could say your familiar is the root of your pact that really makes a new question that you or your DM need to answer which is "why is your patron willing to adventure with you and further take orders from you" (the character may not know the reason why or even thought to ask but somebody really should figure out the motivation for this which thankfully can become a potentially fun plot point to bring up eventually).

[Zaltman]

To go along with this while you certainly could say your familiar is the root of your pact that really makes a new question that you or your DM need to answer which is "why is your patron willing to adventure with you and further take orders from you" (the character may not know the reason why or even thought to ask but somebody really should figure out the motivation for this which thankfully can become a potentially fun plot point to bring up eventually).

Maybe the character is actually the familiar? It could almost be like having an intelligent sword that at certain times exerts its will over the character. With the right DM and player it could be awesome, but if not handled well will be frustrating and unsatisfying.

[Turkish323]

I was just perusing this thread to help my gf create her GOO Tomelock and I was wondering why Tasha's Hideous Laughter got the light blue ranking, while Hold Person only got dark blue? Hold Person seems to be in all ways a better spell, and an easy choice to replace Tasha's Hideous Laughter. Is there something that I am missing?

[Arkhios]

I was just perusing this thread to help my gf create her GOO Tomelock and I was wondering why Tasha's Hideous Laughter got the light blue ranking, while Hold Person only got dark blue? Hold Person seems to be in all ways a better spell, and an easy choice to replace Tasha's Hideous Laughter. Is there something that I am missing?

Hold Person affects only humanoids, while Hideous Laughter affects any creatures.

That's a big difference.

To elaborate: Hold Person does nothing against aberrations, beasts, celestials, constructs, dragons, elementals, fey, fiends, giants, monstrosities, oozes, plants, or undead, but Hideous Laughter has the potential of making all of them – and humanoids – laugh uncontrollably.

[Turkish323]

Hold Person affects only humanoids, while Hideous Laughter affects any creatures.

That's a big difference.

To elaborate: Hold Person does nothing against aberrations, beasts, celestials, constructs, dragons, elementals, fey, fiends, giants, monstrosities, oozes, plants, or undead, but Hideous Laughter has the potential of making all of them – and humanoids – laugh uncontrollably.

Gotcha. I missed that aspect, thank you. It all makes much more sense, now.

[sophontteks]

Also gotta respect that hideous laughter is a level 1 spell and hold person is a level 2 spell. Hold Person has some great advantages with paralyze giving auto crits, but overall its a lateral move at the cost of an increased spell level.
EDIT: I, um, suppose this doesn't matter to warlocks much though

[JakOfAllTirades]

Also gotta respect that hideous laughter is a level 1 spell and hold person is a level 2 spell. Hold Person has some great advantages with paralyze giving auto crits, but overall its a lateral move at the cost of an increased spell level.
EDIT: I, um, suppose this doesn't matter to warlocks much though

It matters a lot more once you're 5th level and have the Eldritch Smite Invocation. Sure you're burning through both spell slots to do it, but Hold Person + auto crit Eldritch Smite is arguably worth it. At higher levels, Hold Monster works on pretty anything and Eldritch Smite does lots more dice.

[Mandragola]

My fiend pact bladelock is now level 10. I find him a really fun character to play. Variant human with moderately and heavily armoured and polearm mastery as my upgrades. I usually go around with a shield and a spear (cursed returning +2 harpoon of backbiting with +1d6 fire damage. Fun!)

It's really interesting how spells scale. It makes some low-level spells become excellent at high level. The humble command spell, for example, recently won us a fight involving 6 fire giants that had surrounded the party. Telling all of them to flee meant that we could just fight the ones who passed their saves and a lot less damage was taken as a result. I have higher level spells like fear that might have done the job, but I couldn't have hit all the monsters with anything but command.

The fact it only works for one turn is a problem, but the payoff for that is not needing concentration. So I can keep hex going and the giants still run off even if I'm KO'd.

Spells like command and armour of agathys are pretty bad at low level. At 9th they can be really serious. It's also nice to always counterspell at 5th level.

[tieren]

My fey lock would like to take conjure fey as the 6th level arcanum, but it kind of irritates me that unless you're into hags, a Conjure Woodland Beings upcast to 6th level would often be more useful (never mind that conjure woodland beings isn't even on the fey expanded spell list).

Since the arcanum is such a limited resource, only one spell of that level, no high level slot to upcast lower level spells, etc...Would any of you as DM's object to allowing a character to swap Conjure fey for an upcast Conjure Woodland Beings that can only be cast with the arcanum?

I solemnly swear I don't want to summon pixies, but a satyr warband would be fun, or a bunch of dryads as a triage team.

edit:
Or in the alternative would you allow the expanded spell list to swap out dominate beast for conjure woodland beings at the 4th spell level?

[Bloodcloud]

My fey lock would like to take conjure fey as the 6th level arcanum, but it kind of irritates me that unless you're into hags, a Conjure Woodland Beings upcast to 6th level would often be more useful (never mind that conjure woodland beings isn't even on the fey expanded spell list).

Since the arcanum is such a limited resource, only one spell of that level, no high level slot to upcast lower level spells, etc...Would any of you as DM's object to allowing a character to swap Conjure fey for an upcast Conjure Woodland Beings that can only be cast with the arcanum?

I solemnly swear I don't want to summon pixies, but a satyr warband would be fun, or a bunch of dryads as a triage team.

edit:
Or in the alternative would you allow the expanded spell list to swap out dominate beast for conjure woodland beings at the 4th spell level?

I think there is a bunch of fey in the Ravnica book... not sure how fitting.

Aslo, not it can conjure a beast up to CR 6 too. That expands the options quite a bit.

[JakOfAllTirades]

I think there is a bunch of fey in the Ravnica book... not sure how fitting.

Aslo, not it can conjure a beast up to CR 6 too. That expands the options quite a bit.

I've looked into that, and a lot of the higher CR beasts don't exactly shout "fey" in terms of flavor. Summoning a mammoth or some sort of dinosaur and calling it "fey" just doesn't make much sense, IMHO. On the other hand, a Giant Elk is the most awesome of fey creatures, even if it's only CR2.

[tieren]

I've looked into that, and a lot of the higher CR beasts don't exactly shout "fey" in terms of flavor. Summoning a mammoth or some sort of dinosaur and calling it "fey" just doesn't make much sense, IMHO. On the other hand, a Giant Elk is the most awesome of fey creatures, even if it's only CR2.

Agreed, I was aware of the beast option but didn't see anything thematically appropriate.

[JakOfAllTirades]

I've looked into that, and a lot of the higher CR beasts don't exactly shout "fey" in terms of flavor. Summoning a mammoth or some sort of dinosaur and calling it "fey" just doesn't make much sense, IMHO. On the other hand, a Giant Elk is the most awesome of fey creatures, even if it's only CR2.

Agreed, I was aware of the beast option but didn't see anything thematically appropriate.

Pretty much any typical "forest" type creature could be considered thematically appropriate for this, but the downside is that most of them aren't all that much help in a fight.

[Xayah]

Hey there, thanks for this guide. I've been reading all of yours for a while and use them basically constantly, but for this one I had a few questions.

I'm aiming to play a Protector Aasimar Archfey Bladelock, but am unsure of what direction to take the build other than that. Do you recommend going STR or DEX-based? And what invocations/spells (other than the obvious IPW, Thirsting Blade, and Hex) do you recommend? Feats are tough since I really need to pump my attack stat up high while also probably maxing CHA eventually.

I know the obvious course of action is 'go Hexblade', but I really wanna go Archfey because it fits way better thematically.

[Arkhios]

Hey there, thanks for this guide. I've been reading all of yours for a while and use them basically constantly, but for this one I had a few questions.

I'm aiming to play a Protector Aasimar Archfey Bladelock, but am unsure of what direction to take the build other than that. Do you recommend going STR or DEX-based? And what invocations/spells (other than the obvious IPW, Thirsting Blade, and Hex) do you recommend? Feats are tough since I really need to pump my attack stat up high while also probably maxing CHA eventually.

I know the obvious course of action is 'go Hexblade', but I really wanna go Archfey because it fits way better thematically.

I'd say it depends a lot do you want the character be made in the most optimal way possible, or less so.

The most optimal non-hexblade bladelock I can think of on short notice would probably be DEX-based, since the Warlock is only proficient with up to Light Armor and no shields without additional feat investment and/or multiclassing.

Less than optimal, do what you like the most (which, of course, may still be considered optimal, so that's not a given).

[Xayah]

I'd say it depends a lot do you want the character be made in the most optimal way possible, or less so.

The most optimal non-hexblade bladelock I can think of on short notice would probably be DEX-based, since the Warlock is only proficient with up to Light Armor and no shields without additional feat investment and/or multiclassing.

Less than optimal, do what you like the most (which, of course, may still be considered optimal, so that's not a given).

Looking to optimize it as much as possible, really. The theme is mostly set in stone but any Archfey Hexblade is going to fit in there.
A big issue I personally see is that while IPW gives me ranged options like the Longbow, which is nice with both the P Aasimar's flight and the DEX based version, that just seems like it competes with Eldritch Blast too much. So what I'm thinking is maybe just grabbing mostly utility invocations past IPW and Thirsting Blade, either buffing Eldritch Blast with stuff like Grasp of Hadar and/or Repelling Blast so I can pick between control and damage, or just not taking Eldritch Blast at all, focusing completely on weapon damage, and grabbing invocations like Armor of Shadows, Gaze of Two Minds, Lifedrinker, Maddening Hex, etc. Not sure how optimal either of these are, however.

[Wizard_Lizard]

My dragonborn fiendlock just hit level three, and I chose pact of tome. Mostly because I have no STR and my DEX isn't too good either (STR 5, DEX 14, CON 12 INT18 WIS10 CHA18) so bladelock is out.
But I was looking t spells for pact of tome BOAS rituals, and guess what I found! FIND FAMILIAR! The pact of chain's thing! So to me pact of chain seems somewhat irrelevant. My fmiliar is a camel, named Andy, because he is andromedary.

[Darc_Vader]

My dragonborn fiendlock just hit level three, and I chose pact of tome. Mostly because I have no STR and my DEX isn't too good either (STR 5, DEX 14, CON 12 INT18 WIS10 CHA18) so bladelock is out.
But I was looking t spells for pact of tome BOAS rituals, and guess what I found! FIND FAMILIAR! The pact of chain's thing! So to me pact of chain seems somewhat irrelevant. My fmiliar is a camel, named Andy, because he is andromedary.

If all your looking for is any familiar then yes, the extra stuff you get from Tome on top of the familiar is arguably better. Tome can also roughly emulate Blade if you take Shillelagh (I’m trusting you on this one autocorrect) and Booming/Green-Flame Blade as your cantrips. It’s the most versatile and arguably strongest Pact. If you already have a ritual caster in the party though - or if you want the enhanced familiar/pact boon specific invocations - then you're often going to be better off picking one of the other Pacts.

Also, ouch on that Str score. It’s always rough trying to figure out what to do with a roll that low.

[JakOfAllTirades]

Looking to optimize it as much as possible, really. The theme is mostly set in stone but any Archfey Hexblade is going to fit in there.
A big issue I personally see is that while IPW gives me ranged options like the Longbow, which is nice with both the P Aasimar's flight and the DEX based version, that just seems like it competes with Eldritch Blast too much. So what I'm thinking is maybe just grabbing mostly utility invocations past IPW and Thirsting Blade, either buffing Eldritch Blast with stuff like Grasp of Hadar and/or Repelling Blast so I can pick between control and damage, or just not taking Eldritch Blast at all, focusing completely on weapon damage, and grabbing invocations like Armor of Shadows, Gaze of Two Minds, Lifedrinker, Maddening Hex, etc. Not sure how optimal either of these are, however.

That's the direction I went and it's been working out beautifully. I use a longbow as my pact weapon for ranged combat, a rapier in melee, and I got myself a suit of Studded Leather +1. The result was no need for Agonizing Blast or any other EB-related invocations, no Armor of Shadows invocation, and my invocation slots were free for lots of others I wanted. Sure, you can't push/pull creatures with your pact bow, but you can Eldritch Smite with it, which is even better.

[Xayah]

That's the direction I went and it's been working out beautifully. I use a longbow as my pact weapon for ranged combat, a rapier in melee, and I got myself a suit of Studded Leather +1. The result was no need for Agonizing Blast or any other EB-related invocations, no Armor of Shadows invocation, and my invocation slots were free for lots of others I wanted. Sure, you can't push/pull creatures with your pact bow, but you can Eldritch Smite with it, which is even better.

Do you consider Eldritch Smite worth it? I'd written it off for a single class Warlock because you get so few spell slots that spending them on Smite seems not worth it. I understand the damage is immense when do use it, but it seems situational.

[JakOfAllTirades]

Do you consider Eldritch Smite worth it? I'd written it off for a single class Warlock because you get so few spell slots that spending them on Smite seems not worth it. I understand the damage is immense when do use it, but it seems situational.

My 9th level FeyLock uses it more than I expected. The thing is, we've got an evoker wizard in our party, and early on I decided to let him take care of the "blasting" type spells, so my list is mostly illusions, enchantment, etc. Occasionally we run into a monster, I look at my spell list and just say "right, no help here" and proceed to Smite everything. I just think of it as another spellcasting option that does +6d8 force damage on a pact weapon hit and causes the Prone condition with no save. Sometimes it's actually the best option. Especially on a critical hit; who can say no to +12d8 force damage?

Edit: also, our party lacks a Paladin, and we have no Great Weapon fighters (just two really good sword & board guys), so I felt someone in the group needed to fill the role of "heavy hitter" in melee.

[Trustypeaches]

I've looked into that, and a lot of the higher CR beasts don't exactly shout "fey" in terms of flavor. Summoning a mammoth or some sort of dinosaur and calling it "fey" just doesn't make much sense, IMHO. On the other hand, a Giant Elk is the most awesome of fey creatures, even if it's only CR2.

The Feywild extends far beyond fantastical forests, there are as many biomes in the Feywild as there are on the material plane.

The Feywild encompasses nature after all, and so it is as diverse as nature is.

You could slip into a feywild desert to find shimmering dunes of pink, sparkling sand.

[JakOfAllTirades]

The Feywild extends far beyond fantastical forests, there are as many biomes in the Feywild as there are on the material plane.

The Feywild encompasses nature after all, and so it is as diverse as nature is.

You could slip into a feywild desert to find shimmering dunes of pink, sparkling sand.

Fair enough. The "forest primeval" is the first thing I tend to think of when the Fey are mentioned, however.

I blame Shakespear.

[sophontteks]

My dragonborn fiendlock just hit level three, and I chose pact of tome. Mostly because I have no STR and my DEX isn't too good either (STR 5, DEX 14, CON 12 INT18 WIS10 CHA18) so bladelock is out.
But I was looking t spells for pact of tome BOAS rituals, and guess what I found! FIND FAMILIAR! The pact of chain's thing! So to me pact of chain seems somewhat irrelevant. My fmiliar is a camel, named Andy, because he is andromedary.

Find familiar doesn't allow things like a camel. That's homebrew. Homebrew like this will make chainlock's additional choices less important. The only legal familiars are: bat, cat, crab, toad, hawk, lizard, octopus, owl, poisonous snake, fish, rat, raven, sea horse, spider, or weasel,

The chain familiar has additional skills, invisibility, shapeshifting, higher intelligence, damage immunities, advantage vs. spells, darkvision, the ability to speak (and even negotiate), and the full ability to interact with objects (they have hands).

The Imp is the best IMO. On top of the above, an imp has social skills, and insight. An imp could listen into conversations and let you know if it thinks the target is being disingenuous. The imp can even see through magical darkness and can speak both infernal and common, in case you need a translator.

Familiars can use the assist action while being invisible, allowing them to assist with attacks consistently with very little personal risk. They make far better scouts as they are invisible, shapeshifted, and skilled at hiding.

Finally, I think tome is a little over-rated in what it can do. At its base all it gives are three cantrips. The ritual part costs an invocation, and this is a pretty high cost. In comparisons I feel many handwave this cost, but there are many really good invocations that will weigh heavy in this comparison. For warlocks who want to use their invocations elsewhere, having a far advanced familiar is a much better pick then three cantrips. The only good pickup is guidance, but its only good if no one else in the party has it.

[TyGuy]

I just read this guide and something that I want to correct is that infernal calling is FAR from bad IF the warlock is willing to put in the work to get/create a talisman. I agree with the rank if there's no help, it's still pretty shaky with a true name, but with a talisman it's the highest CR/spell level summon, if I'm not mistaken. Without any risk, it doesn't even turn if concentration is broken, it just disappears.

[tieren]

I just read this guide and something that I want to correct is that infernal calling is FAR from bad IF the warlock is willing to put in the work to get/create a talisman. I agree with the rank if there's no help, it's still pretty shaky with a true name, but with a talisman it's the highest CR/spell level summon, if I'm not mistaken. Without any risk, it doesn't even turn if concentration is broken, it just disappears.

I was going to make a similar statement about Summon Greater Demon, it seems to me on the first round the demon has to follow your command, because it doesn't get the save until the end of its turn.

Doesn't that mean I can always make the first command "Tell me your true name"? After that it would have disadvantage on all the saving throws to break control.

I have a spell DC of 19 at level 9 (20 Cha, rod of pact keeper +2), the Barlgura demon has a -1 to its Charisma save, that means to pass on disadvantage save roll it would need to roll double 20's (99.75% chance of failure). Same with a Vrock at level 5 slots.

That seems like a lot of punch/meat shield for the summoning buck, heck if it did break free my character would totally just disappear for a few minutes anyway.

[Wizard_Lizard]

Find familiar doesn't allow things like a camel. That's homebrew. Homebrew like this will make chainlock's additional choices less important. The only legal familiars are: bat, cat, crab, toad, hawk, lizard, octopus, owl, poisonous snake, fish, rat, raven, sea horse, spider, or weasel,

The chain familiar has additional skills, invisibility, shapeshifting, higher intelligence, damage immunities, advantage vs. spells, darkvision, the ability to speak (and even negotiate), and the full ability to interact with objects (they have hands).

The Imp is the best IMO. On top of the above, an imp has social skills, and insight. An imp could listen into conversations and let you know if it thinks the target is being disingenuous. The imp can even see through magical darkness and can speak both infernal and common, in case you need a translator.

Familiars can use the assist action while being invisible, allowing them to assist with attacks consistently with very little personal risk. They make far better scouts as they are invisible, shapeshifted, and skilled at hiding.

Finally, I think tome is a little over-rated in what it can do. At its base all it gives are three cantrips. The ritual part costs an invocation, and this is a pretty high cost. In comparisons I feel many handwave this cost, but there are many really good invocations that will weigh heavy in this comparison. For warlocks who want to use their invocations elsewhere, having a far advanced familiar is a much better pick then three cantrips. The only good pickup is guidance, but its only good if no one else in the party has it.

I always assumed that the familiar had to be CR 1/8 or less.

[Ezekiel_2517]

I'm looking into a multiclass with 2 levels of Barbarian up front. Wouldn't that make a Bladelock quite more viable. I know of the Ragerestriction, but with AoA and Eldritch Smite this wouldn't be that bad. Am I missing something?

[Arkhios]

I'm looking into a multiclass with 2 levels of Barbarian up front. Wouldn't that make a Bladelock quite more viable. I know of the Ragerestriction, but with AoA and Eldritch Smite this wouldn't be that bad. Am I missing something?

Apart from pushing Thirsting Blade invocation back up to 7th character level, it does certainly add some useful aspects to the character:

Greater Hit Points at start, potentially decent unarmored defense, and a chance to gain advantage at-will, at a fair price.

[JakOfAllTirades]

Apart from pushing Thirsting Blade invocation back up to 7th character level, it does certainly add some useful aspects to the character:

Greater Hit Points at start, potentially decent unarmored defense, and a chance to gain advantage at-will, at a fair price.

It pushes everything else back two levels as well. Is it worth waiting until 13th level to get that 3rd Pact Magic slot per short rest?