Sneaky Microsoft upgrade trick

[pendell]

If you have a system you're not going to upgrade; watch out. Clicking on X will NOT cancel the upgrade. You have to click on the "change upgrade schedule" button. Clicking on X means it goes onto your computer that same night.

https://bgr.com/2016/05/25/microsoft...upgrade-trick/

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Leecros]

My dad fell into this trap. Fortunately he simply refused the user license agreement and the computer went ahead and reverted back to Windows 7.

Unfortunately to many of us, pressing agree has become muscle memory.

[Grinner]

Interesting. Why are they pushing Windows 10 so hard? Is this merely a programming oversight, or is it intentional?

[Fri]

Windows 10 is actually a fine OS, I'm using it in my office workstation. But the way microsoft forcing the updates is so goddamn sketchy.

Hillariously, it actually reminds me on over-the-top drug pushers from old-timey very special PSA episodes on 80s cartoons who try to trick you to get the first hit in any way possible.

[Douglas]

Interesting. Why are they pushing Windows 10 so hard? Is this merely a programming oversight, or is it intentional?

It's intentional. Microsoft wants as many people on the latest version of Windows as possible, so that they can reduce or eliminate ongoing support for older versions without causing problems or widespread complaints.

[veti]

It's intentional. Microsoft wants as many people on the latest version of Windows as possible, so that they can reduce or eliminate ongoing support for older versions without causing problems or widespread complaints.

Yeah, I've thought about that.

But it doesn't really seem to hold water. The support lifetimes of each existing Windows version have already been published, and I don't see how Microsoft can renege on those. They're committed (they say) to supporting Windows 8.1 up until October 2023, even if only three people are still using it - and after that they can drop it anyway. So what difference does it make how many people migrate to 10?

A less benign, but sadly more plausible, explanation is that Microsoft has ways of monetising Windows 10. We've already seen ads in the start menu, search integrated with Windows Store, and compulsory collection of telemetry from all users, and who knows what else they've got up their sleeve?

[Grinner]

...compulsory collection of telemetry from all users...

Back up there. Can't you opt-out of that?

[Gnoman]

Yeah, I've thought about that.

But it doesn't really seem to hold water. The support lifetimes of each existing Windows version have already been published, and I don't see how Microsoft can renege on those. They're committed (they say) to supporting Windows 8.1 up until October 2023, even if only three people are still using it - and after that they can drop it anyway. So what difference does it make how many people migrate to 10?

You know all that talk about Windows being unstable and full of security flaws? The single biggest contributor to this is people refusing to update. There's plenty of people who refuse to upgrade from XP, and consider it to be Microsoft's fault if they have a data breach or get slammed with a ransomware. This has caused Microsoft to lose massive amounts of money over the years. Doing everything possible to get as many people as possible to update is very clearly in Microsoft's best interest without any conspiracy theories about how they're going to exploit you.

[cobaltstarfire]

Windows 10 is actually a fine OS, I'm using it in my office workstation. But the way microsoft forcing the updates is so goddamn sketchy.

The most expensive form of Windows 10 is fine, because that version lets you control how your personal information is handled and shared, any other form of 10 does not allow you to have control of that stuff. If you don't trust Microsoft any further than you can throw a cinderblock, windows 10 is not acceptable. Sure what it's doing is convenient, but it's not secure (at least not by my guys definition anyway, and he's well educated enough in the area of digital security that I trust his judgement on that)

I decided to ditch 10, when it became clear that it wasn't going to stop reinstalling its bloatware every single time there was an update. Doesn't seem to matter how thoroughly you rip that stuff out, it comes back every time so we gave up. Between that, and its inability to run most games well if at all, and having to do some serious fighting with it deciding drivers that are broken are better for me than drivers that work.... well it feels like Microsoft was telling me that Windows 10 just isn't the system for me...

edit

Back up there. Can't you opt-out of that?

No you can't, possibly in the enterprise version (the most expensive one) but in all the lower ones? No.


When my current machine can no longer use the tubes and such, then I'll upgrade to...something. Maybe Microsoft, maybe something else, but I'm not touching 10 unless there are some pretty big changes to how it behaves.

[noparlpf]

Yeah, I'm not thrilled with how they installed "Get Windows X" on Windows 7 without asking and then made it practically impossible to remove. I ended up wrecking my OS and having to reinstall trying to get rid of that thing. Luckily in the process of that I did notice to manually opt out of the automatic upgrade, but I'm still sore about not having been able to get rid of it. And it's just super sketchy that Microsoft is pushing so hard for upgrades regardless of the user's preferences, and that Win10 has things like half-hidden data gathering "features."

I'm actually posting from a Windows 10 machine now (my Win7 computer is right next to this one, but its mouse is propping up my phone at the moment ) and it's not a bad OS. It took some tweaking (Classic Shell was a major part of that) but overall there are only a few things left that I actively dislike. One of those is the current update system, actually. As far as I'm aware there's no way to schedule the automatic updates for a convenient time or to shut automatic updates off entirely. I understand where they're coming from trying to patch security risks or system instability on as many computers as possible, but it's just rude to minimise my game window in the middle of a boss fight or something so Windows can ask me to OPT OUT of an automatic reboot I didn't ask for in the first place.

[DodgerH2O]

For those serious about avoiding the upgrades (or upgrading on their own schedule and tired of seeing popups) there is software to prevent the behavior.

GWX Control Panel: http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/

It has a run-once option and a monitor option. I used the run-once and haven't had Win10 try to sneak on to my system in the last half a year. It's third party but a lot of advanced users swear by it, so I feel comfortable endorsing it.

[DodgerH2O]

Also...

Back up there. Can't you opt-out of that?

You can opt out of Cortana and several other bits that collect telemetry, but...

http://thehackernews.com/2016/02/mic...0-privacy.html

Edit: Take that link with a grain of salt as it was the first link that I found searching, there are other factors (such as failed attempts causing repeats more than a typical user would experience) but the fact that a telemetry disabled machine made connections to multiple IP addresses over a short time still bothers me personally.

[veti]

You know all that talk about Windows being unstable and full of security flaws? The single biggest contributor to this is people refusing to update. There's plenty of people who refuse to upgrade from XP, and consider it to be Microsoft's fault if they have a data breach or get slammed with a ransomware. This has caused Microsoft to lose massive amounts of money over the years. Doing everything possible to get as many people as possible to update is very clearly in Microsoft's best interest without any conspiracy theories about how they're going to exploit you.

Windows' security has been 'good enough' since Vista, and from where I sit it seems that the biggest contributor to instability now is the update cycle. (Every time Fallout 3 crashes and forces me to reboot - every time - the boot screen tells me there's an update waiting to be installed. Coincidence? I think not.)

As for people still using XP - how does Microsoft lose money from being blamed when their systems go wrong? Those were people who've already ignored several years' worth of increasingly dire warnings, precisely because they refused to pay more money to Microsoft. They're not "customers" in any meaningful sense of the word, any more than I'm a "customer" of Coca-Cola because I drank their product in 2007.

"Doing everything possible to get as many people as possible to update" only makes sense for very limited values of "everything possible". Specifically, it doesn't make sense to do things that drive away more paying customers than the bad press spawned by useless ex-customers.

And I'm an example of that demographic: I bought a new PC a year ago with no OS preinstalled, I paid extra for an install disc of Windows 8.1 to go with it. I would, very likely, do the same again in about 7 years' time when this one reaches its end of life. But I won't pay for Windows 10, not unless MS mends its ways - on current trends, my next machine will run Linux or something similar. I'm a paying customer who's being driven away. How does that "make sense" for Microsoft?

[Gnoman]

Windows' security has been 'good enough' since Vista, and from where I sit it seems that the biggest contributor to instability now is the update cycle. (Every time Fallout 3 crashes and forces me to reboot - every time - the boot screen tells me there's an update waiting to be installed. Coincidence? I think not.)

As for people still using XP - how does Microsoft lose money from being blamed when their systems go wrong? Those were people who've already ignored several years' worth of increasingly dire warnings, precisely because they refused to pay more money to Microsoft. They're not "customers" in any meaningful sense of the word, any more than I'm a "customer" of Coca-Cola because I drank their product in 2007.

"Doing everything possible to get as many people as possible to update" only makes sense for very limited values of "everything possible". Specifically, it doesn't make sense to do things that drive away more paying customers than the bad press spawned by useless ex-customers.

And I'm an example of that demographic: I bought a new PC a year ago with no OS preinstalled, I paid extra for an install disc of Windows 8.1 to go with it. I would, very likely, do the same again in about 7 years' time when this one reaches its end of life. But I won't pay for Windows 10, not unless MS mends its ways - on current trends, my next machine will run Linux or something similar. I'm a paying customer who's being driven away. How does that "make sense" for Microsoft?

How many people have bought Macs because "windows gets viruses all the time! It's all you hear about"? Yes, the people who are refusing to upgrade aren't going to matter to MS one way or another, but the massive amount of bile they spew out turns other customers away.

[Starwulf]

I thought the time for "Free upgrade to Win10" was over now? Here I was thinking I could stop being so careful about what updates to Win7 I allow. Guess it's back to closely monitoring everything.

[veti]

How many people have bought Macs because "windows gets viruses all the time! It's all you hear about"? Yes, the people who are refusing to upgrade aren't going to matter to MS one way or another, but the massive amount of bile they spew out turns other customers away.

I don't know, how many? No-one I know, anyway.

Conversely, how many people have bought Macs because Apple enforces consistency of look, feel and behaviour across all its apps?

By contrast, consider Microsoft's own guidelines for Windows developers - this is directly from the stuff you have to memorise if you want to be an MS certified Windows developer:

"The Close button on the title bar should have the same effect as the Cancel or Close button within the dialog box. Never give it the same effect as OK."

Right.

[Alent]

I thought the time for "Free upgrade to Win10" was over now? Here I was thinking I could stop being so careful about what updates to Win7 I allow. Guess it's back to closely monitoring everything.

July 29th is the official expiration for the free upgrade offer. One hopes it's the end of GWX, as that app should have been decommissioned long ago for having done it's job and then some, but... somehow I expect we'll still be seeing it.

I'm running into this with my clients right now, not thrilled with some of the time-sensitive work this ambush is causing.

[Khedrac]

And then there is the usability issue.

I am running Windows 10 and relatively happy with it (probably because I don't know enough about the data capture site).

My father was running XP and we recently had to get him a replacement computer. My brother got the shop to build it with Windows 7 and he is semi-OK with it (he's 85 and has dementia so how much he remembers varies from day to day) - we are having rather more problems with the reconditioned laptop, but that's another story.
I have advised him to say "no" to the Windows 10 upgrade prompts, and my brother is turning off the auto-upgrade because of this Microsoft decision.
Why? Because Windows 10's look and feel is sufficiently different that there is no way he will ever remember how to use it.

Forced upgrade to a different way of using a product will cut out a vast number of elderly people who can no longer cope with change.
I wonder if we should report them for age discrimination? (joke)

The sad bit is how ahead of his time Dad used to be with computers, his first home computer (for word processing, spreadhseets etc) was an FTS 88 (big desktop with a build in mnitor and twin 8 inch floppy drives in a separate housing) back in the late 1980s. Hmm, that's a computer so obsolete I cannot find a picture of one on a web search :(

[factotum]

The best bit about this trick is that it explicitly contradicts Microsoft's own UI guidelines for Windows, which state that the close button should *never* do the same thing as the OK button. One rule for us, one for them, I guess.

I've personally been running Windows 10 for a while and not had an issue with it, apart from its tendency to nag me to upgrade my Office (I use Outlook 2007 for e-mail, calendar and tasks, and I see no reason to upgrade it). Games all run fine, Fallout 3 crashed occasionally (and New Vegas more so) but those games were never the most stable to begin with--Fallout 4 has been rock-solid stable, though.

[Jasdoif]

"Doing everything possible to get as many people as possible to update" only makes sense for very limited values of "everything possible". Specifically, it doesn't make sense to do things that drive away more paying customers than the bad press spawned by useless ex-customers.

The impression I get is that Microsoft thinks most people/businesses will be willing to accept Windows 10 once they start using it, and the only barrier is actually getting them to start. Or at the very least, that the people who balk at getting Windows 10 free of charge aren't likely to ever pay for it.

[cobaltstarfire]

my brother is turning off the auto-upgrade because of this Microsoft decision.

Keep an eye on it, there have been reports of computers auto-upgrading in spite of being told not to, that was probably a bug, but it doesn't hurt to stay onto of it anyway.


I'm pretty disappointed that 10 turned out the way it has, I was considering upgrading my main machine to 10, until I tried it out. Then I decided to wait and see, since in the past Microsoft has managed to fix their OS's in the past. Hearing that now there are ads in the start bar and stuff tells me that I am right for avoiding this iteration of windows.

I don't want to have to change OS families, because I've used windows of some form for 20 of my 29 years of life (95/XP/Vista/7), I know how to take care of a PC and keep it healthy and secure, and I am sufficiently able to fix any weird problems that arise with one without any tech support. I don't take lightly the thought of switching over to Mac or a Linux box because it'll be a frustrating transition that will require me to rely on someone else to keep running optimally.

[Gnoman]

Hearing that now there are ads in the start bar and stuff tells me that I am right for avoiding this iteration of windows.

There. Are. No. Ads. The closest thing is "recommended apps", which takes all of two seconds to get rid of forever.

[DigoDragon]

I recently switched to 10 and am so far fine with it, but I totally understand the annoyance of getting forced to upgrade because yeah, I didn't want to switch early until some of the first bugs were worked out of the new OS (also, I was planning to upgrade some hardware so wanted to get that done before before the switch, as the newer stuff stuff is coming out with Win 10 drivers).

[lesser_minion]

I'm pretty disappointed that 10 turned out the way it has, I was considering upgrading my main machine to 10, until I tried it out. Then I decided to wait and see, since in the past Microsoft has managed to fix their OS's in the past. Hearing that now there are ads in the start bar and stuff tells me that I am right for avoiding this iteration of windows.

I have to say, if there are 'ads' in the start menu, they're beyond trivial. I don't think I've noticed a single ad there since I started using Windows 10, and I upgraded one machine almost immediately and my current machine came with it pre-installed. To be fair, the plural of anecdote is not data, but still.

If you want to complain about Windows 10, point out that there are almost zero concrete improvements over 8.1 or even 8.0, and definitely nothing that should have warranted an OS upgrade.

As for changing OS families, well, Windows has already been discussed, OS X entails paying Apple tax on top of basically everything and has at least 75% of the same bull**** just better hidden, and anything else that purports to be much more than just rolling your own OS is likely best avoided even now. Operating systems are not in a good place these days.

[Winter_Wolf]

I recently discovered the truly hell bent on not going to W10 can still buy Win 7x64 off Amazon. Happily I've managed to keep my Win7 install intact. My mom ended up "upgraded " to 10, and I gotta say, I'm not a fan. Plus zero guarantee any given program will actually still work, since a number are older and have no compatibility upgrade. Why take a chance on screwing up my whole setup? I'm running GWX control panel from that outsider site. Been a champ so far, no problems.

[cobaltstarfire]

I have to say, if there are 'ads' in the start menu, they're beyond trivial. I don't think I've noticed a single ad there since I started using Windows 10, and I upgraded one machine almost immediately and my current machine came with it pre-installed. To be fair, the plural of anecdote is not data, but still.

If you want to complain about Windows 10, point out that there are almost zero concrete improvements over 8.1 or even 8.0, and definitely nothing that should have warranted an OS upgrade.

You don't care about "ads", I however do. I don't care if it's trivial to you. I don't want "suggested aps" or whatever else being shoved in my face. I don't like having stuff reinstalled after I had gone out of my way to thoroughly rip that stuff out, I don't like the "convenience" features where I have no control over what information is being sent to Microsofts cloud servers without buying the most expensive version of the OS, and I don't like that it can't play most of my games reliably. I also don't really appreciate having to fight the OS over what drivers should be installed and used.

These are all things I have said before!

I can't compare 10 to 8, I said so myself in my last post (have used 95/xp/vista/7). I never used 8 beyond testing it out, because I didn't like its GUI ect. I am aware that the tablet style GUI was "fixed" and I applaud Microsoft for allowing its users to choose their preffered work flow. But that was well after I had already built my current windows 7 machine and I wasn't really interested in paying out another wad of cash for a new OS that soon after buying one.

7 is serving me much better than 10 did over several months of testing, I don't like 10 and the way it's being handled, there's just too much going on with it that frustrates me or makes me uncomfortable.

[noparlpf]

One of the worst parts of Win10 is that they ruined the Solitaire games. I was almost happy that they added Tripeaks and Pyramid, but that app crashes constantly to the point that it's literally unusable. I don't know if that's just me, but at that point it was a clean install and I can run various Steam games with at least medium settings with no trouble. (It's not a gaming laptop so the cpu and gpu on this one aren't especially good.)

[Carlobrand]

Heh. This old relic's still using Windows Vista.

Mwahahahahaimsopoor.

[factotum]

and I don't like that it can't play most of my games reliably.

Which games can't it play reliably, out of interest? As I said above, I've not really had any issues playing games on it--certainly no more so than I did on Vista, 7 or 8 (although I only used 8 for a couple of months before going for the W10 upgrade).

[veti]

I recently discovered the truly hell bent on not going to W10 can still buy Win 7x64 off Amazon.

If you really want to go that way - keep in mind that Windows 7 reaches its final end of support life in January 2020. I don't know about you, but I want a computer to last me more than four years.

Windows 8.1 at least extends the lifetime to 2023.