V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

[Studoku]

Oh, btw, Kyrie's eyes are higher than V's eyes. Look closely at 641.

So "V is male, Kyrie is female" appears to be invalidated.

This, along with V's sudden long hair, and Kyrie's obvious male body shape, leads me to believe that Kyrie is male and V is probably female.

That was my impression from the most recent comic.

[Zanaril]

Oh, btw, Kyrie's eyes are higher than V's eyes. Look closely at 641.

Kyrie's slightly taller than V. Their eyes are in the same place on their heads.

[KIDS]

I actually got the impression that V was male (as I thought before) and that Kyrie is female. Vaarsuvius sounds hard to imagine as a female name despite ambiguity, while Kyrie is much easier, being very ambiguous.

But what made me think that V was male was the last comic: V behaved like the stereotypical "caught in the act boy" and used words very much like that.

Of course, both genders can sheepishly walk around their mistakes and they're equal in achievments and screw-ups. But in the context of fiction and passive characterization that creeps in no matter how much you want to keep the character the way you want, last comic was typical fictional male behaviour.

[Volkov]

And why is it [official]? Because it's the first after Giant closed the other threads for being competitive, duplicative, and spammy, and ordered us to move on.

Now, to begin the discussion:

I say, who cares? Live and let live. It's not like you can tell half the time with elves anyway. However, (s)he always struck me as having a slightly more masculine personality than feminine. Impatient (as far as a wizard can be, at least,) violent, arrogant...all frequently perceived as masculine (or at least Yangish) traits, and all emphasized in V at one point or another.

Discuss. Politely.

Correlon Larethian or however his name is spelled is androgynous as well, therefore it would make perfect sense that elves are normally androgynous as their god is androgynous as well.

[The Minx]

Correlon Larethian or however his name is spelled is androgynous as well, therefore it would make perfect sense that elves are normally androgynous as their god is androgynous as well.

Alas, Corellon Larethian does not exist in the Stick-verse as far as we know.

[Souju]

i dunno if someone's mentioned this but...
Isn't Kyrie a GIRL'S NAME?
I know elves are different but still, "Kirie" is a japanese girl's name, and "Kyrie" also happens to be the name of Nero's love interest from DMC4...
Because of that, I'm never gonna be able to see them as ambiguously gendered anymore...I'm actually a little disappointed because the ambiguity was fun :)

[Shadowbane]

Personally, I think the entire thing is mu and that V is neither male nor female.

[brilliantlight]

I actually got the impression that V was male (as I thought before) and that Kyrie is female. Vaarsuvius sounds hard to imagine as a female name despite ambiguity, while Kyrie is much easier, being very ambiguous.

But what made me think that V was male was the last comic: V behaved like the stereotypical "caught in the act boy" and used words very much like that.

Of course, both genders can sheepishly walk around their mistakes and they're equal in achievments and screw-ups. But in the context of fiction and passive characterization that creeps in no matter how much you want to keep the character the way you want, last comic was typical fictional male behaviour.

I must admit that the behavior is certainly very male even though I think V is a woman. That is mainly because V is a very proper elf in her normal state and she stays in the same room as Haley.

[Yendor]

Kyrie's slightly taller than V. Their eyes are in the same place on their heads.

Nope. Even taking height into account, Kyrie's eyes are higher.

[TheSummoner]

I must admit that the behavior is certainly very male even though I think V is a woman. That is mainly because V is a very proper elf in her normal state and she stays in the same room as Haley.

Perhaps Haley realizes the value of having someone to watch your back in case of an attack and trusts V wouldn't do anything because of loyalty to Kyrie.

[Crowbar]

I normally assume that V is female, since she seems effeminate enough and she sounds like a woman in my head. Her being a guy would feel...weird. Also, she normally shares rooms with Haley, so there's that.

[Souju]

I normally assume that V is female, since she seems effeminate enough and she sounds like a woman in my head. Her being a guy would feel...weird. Also, she normally shares rooms with Haley, so there's that.

maybe they share a room because Haley knows V's married and loyal to "his" wife, and wouldn't try anything. And V rooms with Haley (in the comic where they're making Miko pay "he" says "he" only rooms with Haley.)
Think about the rest of the party make-up here:
1) Roy: Guy, snarky, kind of annoying in close quarters.
2) Belkar: Why am I typing something else here?
3) Elan: Well he and Haley probably share a room NOW but...initially, he was more annoying than anyone else in the party, which, while he's a nice enough guy, would probably be a little too much frustration at a time when V or Haley would be trying to sleep/trance.
4) Durkon: According to Belkar, he snores. And probably smells too.
Given those 4 "alternatives" I'd rather room with the effeminate elf/female rogue too. Plus I'm beginning to suspect V may have some sort of familial affection towards Haley. Parent/Child or Siblings

[Ziriath]

I think, androgynous elves like V, Kyrie and Zz'dtri have got about 12 years old-looking girls/boys bodies (I mean bodies under their clothing, not children' corpses hidden somewhere)And if the elf doesnt want to say what her/his gender is, we have almost no chance to identify it. (We know, V uses invisibility, when she every two weeks go behind a bush)

By me, V is a female and Kyrie is a guy.

[hamishspence]

V and Haley know each other in Origin- its not clear how far back they know each other though.

V seems to tolerate liberties from Haley that would draw revenge if they came from Belkar:

Spoiler

Show

V (of the possibility of elves ruling the world if they learned as fast as humans, having been told not to keep asking why it would be a problem)

V :"I'm just curious as to what the problem with that would..."
Haley: "Sneak attack upside the head!"

[Yendor]

Actually, regarding Kyrie, does anyone else suspect the Giant is playing a joke on us? There's been so much arguement over V's gender, and assumptions that the Giant would make V's mate similarly androgynous.

What if he didn't?

If you looked at Kyrie without the preconception of androgyny, wouldn't you decide Kyrie was male? Wouldn't it be a great trick to play to give V an obviously male mate, and watch people speculate fruitlessly anyway?

[CrimsonAngel]

V is male, Kyrie is female. Goodbye.

[Studoku]

V is male, Kyrie is female. Goodbye.

My response is the exact opposite-

Hello. Kyrie is male, V is female

[The Minx]

i dunno if someone's mentioned this but...
Isn't Kyrie a GIRL'S NAME?
I know elves are different but still, "Kirie" is a japanese girl's name, and "Kyrie" also happens to be the name of Nero's love interest from DMC4...
Because of that, I'm never gonna be able to see them as ambiguously gendered anymore...I'm actually a little disappointed because the ambiguity was fun :)

Well, a name can sometimes be feminized/masculinized, and this is elvish. Could be just something to throw us off target.

Actually, regarding Kyrie, does anyone else suspect the Giant is playing a joke on us? There's been so much arguement over V's gender, and assumptions that the Giant would make V's mate similarly androgynous.

What if he didn't?

If you looked at Kyrie without the preconception of androgyny, wouldn't you decide Kyrie was male? Wouldn't it be a great trick to play to give V an obviously male mate, and watch people speculate fruitlessly anyway?

Yup, that's what I thought.

[Lycan 01]

In my mind, V is female, and Kyrie is male. Its not all that important - thats just the way it seems as I read the comic.

I mean, doesn't everyone kinda hear the character's voice in their head as they read? Well, for me, V sounds like a chick, and K sounds like an effeminate (sp?) dude.


Personally, I'd prefer if the Giant kept it a secret forever. I think its good to let the reader decide for themselves who is what.

[Amon Star]

Actually, its a will save...

Can I automatically fail it?

[Silverraptor]

V is genderless, end of discussion! Who wants sushi?

[North_Ranger]

Hmmm... This one actually got me wondering. Both Vaarsuvius and Inkyrius are suitable androgynous to go either way (the same could be said of V's mentor Aarindarius who to me looks like a stick figure version of those Japanese, strangely-effeminate male heroes).

In the latest strip (#643), it is mentioned that the island "is a few dozen miles away from the Western continent".

BUT

...back in the eastern lands we get to see a glimpse of Lirian's Glade in The Start of Darkness, as well as of Lirian herself. And she has, at least to my eye, a clearly established gender, that is female. Not to mention that she and Dorukan are lovers.

Could it be that V and hir family are somehow, I dunno, different from the elves seen in the eastern lands? Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions, but I'm getting vibes that V and hir elven kin are actually from the Western continent, judging by the fact that hir parents took her camping to the island - and since they were rangers, I hardly think they would have squandered gold to teleport halfway across the planet.

What do you think? Am I taking Miko-like logical leaps here?

[Kaytara]

What do you think? Am I taking Miko-like logical leaps here?

I think so, sorry. ^^; If a bunch of elves are androgynous and one isn't, the logical conclusion is that the non-androgynous one is the exception to the norm.

I think the elves are pretty androgynous in general, but some are more androgynous and some less so. Lirian and some drow and adventurer elves we've seen during the comic would belong to the latter group, V's family and most elves in SoD to the former.

[North_Ranger]

I think so, sorry. ^^; If a bunch of elves are androgynous and one isn't, the logical conclusion is that the non-androgynous one is the exception to the norm.

I think the elves are pretty androgynous in general, but some are more androgynous and some less so. Lirian and some drow and adventurer elves we've seen during the comic would belong to the latter group, V's family and most elves in SoD to the former.

Damn! So my sudden epiphany was just a brainfart, then

There's something there still... if you have the SoD anywhere nearby, take a look at p.51, the full-page shot of Redcloak and company at Lirian's Glade. The archer line has some quite noticeable "boobage" that is curiously lacking in the online-comic elves save Lirian.

Just saying.

[MReav]

I know how to find out V's gender:

A psion with high ranks of Knowledge Nature uses Mind Probe and proceeds to look in Belkar's mind for this image

[Kaytara]

I know how to find out V's gender:

A psion with high ranks of Knowledge Nature uses Mind Probe and proceeds to look in Belkar's mind for this image

I think it was already established somewhere that with lizards you can't tell either way, since males don't look any different from females on the outside.

Damn! So my sudden epiphany was just a brainfart, then

There's something there still... if you have the SoD anywhere nearby, take a look at p.51, the full-page shot of Redcloak and company at Lirian's Glade. The archer line has some quite noticeable "boobage" that is curiously lacking in the online-comic elves save Lirian.

Just saying.

That's the SoD elves I was talking about, yes. :)

Even there, the "boobage" isn't that noticeable. One elf actually looks completely flat-chested. In any case, their curves are faint enough that any concealing clothing would completely obscure them, which tells us nothing about V. The only remotely solid piece of evidence we have about V is the glimpse of his decidedly squarish shoulders we get when he's changed back into an elf.

[Edna]

Has anyone else had a recent change of heart about V's gender? Since the beginning, I have always thought of V as female, without being able to pinpoint why. However, over the course of the last few strips, I've started to think of V as male.

Edna

[Zevox]

No. I've always seen V as female, and the only way that could change is with explicit confirmation that she is male. What short of explicit confirmation of her sex could possibly make a person change their mind about her anyway?

Zevox

[Lunar Historian]

At first: Male, because I tend to think of characters as male unless there is something that points to female.
By the first inn episode: Female, because he roomed with Haley.
By the last few strips: Male, because he seemed like a henpecked husband.

As for the pronoun, I use the male ones, because they are the default pronouns in English when the gender is unknown or not applicable.

[Bandanna Jones]

Always thought of V as male since square one, and recent events haven't altered that perception at all. V's behavior just generally strikes me as more male than female, I guess.