LGBTAI+ #58 Infinity 2.0: The Darth Arminius Apology Thread

[Dire Moose]

Comrade: Yay, you finally got them! *hugs* :D

[noparlpf]

We talked it out... Was a long and rough night. But she finally said she'd be fine if I started taking the pills this Monday. So... that's great. That's perfect. Just hoping she doesn't change her mind.

Congrats! Good luck and I'm sorry you have to deal with this kind of stuff.

[Kittenwolf]

I'm sorry, I wish I knew how to advise you. Is there no way to get into touch with your doctor before/without a fullblown appointment and its wait time?

I appreciate the thought :)

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So is your Dr in on this or no?

Edit: You need to decide pretty quick whether or not you want boobs right now. If you want the possibility of biological kids, look into having some sperm frozen.

Starting to grow boobs and not being sure if you want them is probably a big enough deal to camp out at your dr until someone will have a look at you. Especially if this isn't something you previously discussed with your dr.

Doc is *definitely* in on this :)
Just things moving much much quicker than I expected and.. yeah.
Going to make an appointment and see how quickly I can get in.

We talked it out... Was a long and rough night. But she finally said she'd be fine if I started taking the pills this Monday. So... that's great. That's perfect. Just hoping she doesn't change her mind.

Woooo!! Congratulations :)
I hope they kick in super well for you.

[Sobol]

Good luck, then! Let us know if you win or not.

I won 4 games out of 7. Had fun playing the Halloween Gambit as White and the Englund Gambit as Black.

[JNAProductions]

We talked it out... Was a long and rough night. But she finally said she'd be fine if I started taking the pills this Monday. So... that's great. That's perfect. Just hoping she doesn't change her mind.

Hoping for you too. Glad it's going so well!

[CWater]

After having a conversation with my significant other, we have agreed that I am most likely demisexual.

I am okay with this.

Good for you. (That you are ok with yourself, that is generally a good thing.)

What did you used to assume you were? I thought I was completely ace for years, until at 22 I suddenly* grew attracted to one close friend. It was reeeally weird at first for me, I remember. A bit like going through a teenage that I'd never had (when it came to these matters anyway), only all the feelings were only towards one person.

First I thought I was a late bloomer or something, but since that relationship ended (sadly, I guess), I'm again practically asexual in my daily life. If it weren't for the constant hinting/pressure from people and society that I should wish for things to be different, I wouldn't really mind either. It's even difficult to truly remember what I felt back then, which is also kind of weird in a way. Like, I know what I felt for him, I just can't relate to it anymore on an emotional level. Yeah, being demi can be strange.

Oh, this turned into quite a ramble that probably doesn't have any point. Um... sorry?

*Well, relatively speaking. Over the course of a... year? ^^'

[Coidzor]

Good luck, Comrade.

I appreciate the thought :)



Doc is *definitely* in on this :)
Just things moving much much quicker than I expected and.. yeah.
Going to make an appointment and see how quickly I can get in.

Hopefully emphasizing the emergency/time-sensitive nature of the issue will help there.

[Iethloc]

So things aren't going well for me. Over the past few months, I've ended up drifting away from most of my friends. I haven't had any luck finding a job, either, so I haven't had much to fill my days.

Anyone up for a chat?

[JNAProductions]

So things aren't going well for me. Over the past few months, I've ended up drifting away from most of my friends. I haven't had any luck finding a job, either, so I haven't had much to fill my days.

Anyone up for a chat?

Ooh! Me! I love talking! :P

In all seriousness, I totally am. If you need to talk, I'm here for you, Iethloc.

[Eldest]

Hi everyone. Kinda been gone for a while, hope everyone is doing well?

I've.. kinda hit a bit of a crisis/confusion/wtf/don't know what to do point/utter meltdown so.. ramblings incoming..

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So, I've identified as Genderfluid for a while, though leaning more often towards the femme/transgirl side. I'll pretty much always automatically categorise myself in the 'girls' group at any particular gathering, though I'm still very much presenting male 99% of the time.
Four months ago I started low dose HRT (no T blockers, 2mg Oestradiol for the medically inclined), hoping for a bit more emotional sensitivity and to develop some hips/waist, since even when in boy mode I want more of an hourglass figure (though being overweight rather causes issues with that). Was hoping that breast growth would be slow/minimal since they'd make being in guy mode a bit on the tricky side (/understatement).

At my six week blood test my hormone levels had gone from "Normal for a male my age, though testosterone a bit below average" to "Testosterone between male & female normal ranges, Oestrogen into the normal female range" so.. big change, my body evidently absorbs oestrogen absurdly well. Which is weird considering that barring some <NSFW, Redacted> I didn't really feel any different. Plan from there was to continue and do anther bloodwork in a few months.

Then around the time I finished one box of meds I started noticing my nipples getting a bit sensitive (which I put down to the freezing cold) but quite rapidly over the next week and a bit that escalated and they're now quite sensitive (to the point where a day in one of my rougher shirts gets a tad uncomfortable). My girlfriend also noticed some changes in my chest, maybe some growth or maybe more definition of my flabby chest.

And so it's pretty much thrown my brain into a corkscrew because it seems like the only thing I'm getting out of HRT is the big thing that I really don't know if I want and.. argh ><
So now I'm sitting here in a tizzy having no idea about which way to jump, whether to drop the meds and try go see my doc (probably a fortnight to get the appointment), whether to say **** it, open the next box and keep to the schedule, or just.. what to do.
I also have no clue if (even if I stop) there's enough E in my system for my chest to keep growing or to get more sensitive, or how quickly that would happen, if the sensitivity goes down/goes away, or even, bluntly, how obvious they are in the first place (pics for reference I guess? http://imgur.com/a/d4niW).

I guess.. if anyone has any advice, suggestions or experience, I'd really appreciate hearing it?

Spoiler: Helpful, I hope

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Having just gone through the start of HRT myself, yeah, that's breast growth. If it helps, I have certainly gotten hips (to quote a partner, "dem hips yo"), I'm about... 4.5 months into HRT, and nobody save my partners have noticed the breast growth on me, so I'd be surprised if anybody notices yours atm.
So to sum up, yes those are breasts, lactation might occur if you continue (it surprised me, so figured I would warn you), and at least to my point at HRT breasts do not seem to cause a problem male-passing.

[Kittenwolf]

Spoiler: Helpful, I hope

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Having just gone through the start of HRT myself, yeah, that's breast growth. If it helps, I have certainly gotten hips (to quote a partner, "dem hips yo"), I'm about... 4.5 months into HRT, and nobody save my partners have noticed the breast growth on me, so I'd be surprised if anybody notices yours atm.
So to sum up, yes those are breasts, lactation might occur if you continue (it surprised me, so figured I would warn you), and at least to my point at HRT breasts do not seem to cause a problem male-passing.

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That does help, thanks :)
Quite envious that you've already gotten hips after only 4.5 months!
I'm going to make a doctor's appointment as soon as I can get in and discuss with her things like expected timelines and all that type of stuff and see what happens.

[golentan]

So things aren't going well for me. Over the past few months, I've ended up drifting away from most of my friends. I haven't had any luck finding a job, either, so I haven't had much to fill my days.

Anyone up for a chat?

My inbox is open and I've gone through some similar stuff over the past couple years. Lemme know if I can help.

[Icewraith]

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That does help, thanks :)
Quite envious that you've already gotten hips after only 4.5 months!
I'm going to make a doctor's appointment as soon as I can get in and discuss with her things like expected timelines and all that type of stuff and see what happens.

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See if you can get the doc on the phone or grab a tent and camp out in their office. People develop differently, so if you're getting all boobs and no hips and that's a problem you should probably clue in your doc.

[Lycunadari]

Can I have some hugs, please?

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I've actually been feeling quite good the last couple of weeks – I'm on antidepressants that seem to work really well, I have a new therapist that seems super nice (I've only had 3 sessions with her so far, but I have a good feeling about her), and my chronic pain is relatively mild currently.

But since Friday I've been feeling horrible - I'm crying at the smallest things, I have bouts of anxiety that leave me shaking so much I can barely type and I'm just generally feeling really depressed.
Part of it is probably that the huge amount of hate the ace community on tumblr currently gets is starting to get to me (some people think (cis, heteroromantic) asexuals don't belong in the LGBT+ community, and they are vicious about it, and they don't care if they hurt numerous gay, bi, trans, nb etc people in their quest to kick aces out), to the point where I don't even trust my friends there anymore.
Another part is that exams are coming up, and while I'm usually doing pretty good, it's of course still stressful.
And I'm lonely - my only friend at uni is taking the next semester off due to health problems, so I'll be back to having no friends here. (Nevermind the fear that I'll never find a partner due to being nonbinary and ace.)
I'd also like to be more open about being queer, but I'm so afraid of being judged or losing the few connections I have, that I never talk about anything identity related.
I also feel like I'm losing the connection to people online, because my social anxiety makes it so hard to speak to people.
(And disasters like the arguments on the relationship advise thread make this so much worse, it has actively made me want to start selfharming again (or alternatively curl up in a ball on the floor and cry for the next couple of days). It's just telling me again that I should never speak up about anything, ever, because I'll just be dismissed anyway and any attempts at trying to help are just met with criticism and more dismissal.)

I'm just feeling really, really fragile right now.

Also, can someone please tell me that I didn't completely overreact and shouldn't just have kept my mouth shut in the other thread?

[Jormengand]

*Hugs Juniper*.

[Lissou]

*Hugs Juniper*

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I don't think you overreacted. You even made it clear that you had no problem with advice phrased "you really shouldn't date someone you're not attracted to" because that advise was targeted at a specific person, you only expressed how statements such as "nobody should date someone they're not attracted to, it's cruel to that person, it's a horrible thing to do" which is easy enough to take as "asexual people shouldn't date an allosexual person, it's cruel and horrible to do so" without any qualifiers. I stopped posting in there because the argument was getting very derailed but I thought a lot of people overreacted by getting defensive, and were putting things in your mouth. For instance saying "but that advice was to Helio specifically!" when you had made it clear you had no issue with that advice, just the generalizations.

I'm sorry that you feel so bad right now and I hope you feel better soon. Please don't hurt yourself, I know a lot of us care about you.

[Lentrax]

*hugs*

There is never anything wrong with speaking up when you think you need to be heard.

[The_Snark]

Juniper: what you said over in the other thread seems perfectly reasonable to me. You don't particularly know me, but I'm sorry you're feeling stressed, and if you want hugs from a relative Internet stranger: *hug*

[noparlpf]

Can I have some hugs, please?

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I've actually been feeling quite good the last couple of weeks – I'm on antidepressants that seem to work really well, I have a new therapist that seems super nice (I've only had 3 sessions with her so far, but I have a good feeling about her), and my chronic pain is relatively mild currently.

But since Friday I've been feeling horrible - I'm crying at the smallest things, I have bouts of anxiety that leave me shaking so much I can barely type and I'm just generally feeling really depressed.
Part of it is probably that the huge amount of hate the ace community on tumblr currently gets is starting to get to me (some people think (cis, heteroromantic) asexuals don't belong in the LGBT+ community, and they are vicious about it, and they don't care if they hurt numerous gay, bi, trans, nb etc people in their quest to kick aces out), to the point where I don't even trust my friends there anymore.
Another part is that exams are coming up, and while I'm usually doing pretty good, it's of course still stressful.
And I'm lonely - my only friend at uni is taking the next semester off due to health problems, so I'll be back to having no friends here. (Nevermind the fear that I'll never find a partner due to being nonbinary and ace.)
I'd also like to be more open about being queer, but I'm so afraid of being judged or losing the few connections I have, that I never talk about anything identity related.
I also feel like I'm losing the connection to people online, because my social anxiety makes it so hard to speak to people.
(And disasters like the arguments on the relationship advise thread make this so much worse, it has actively made me want to start selfharming again (or alternatively curl up in a ball on the floor and cry for the next couple of days). It's just telling me again that I should never speak up about anything, ever, because I'll just be dismissed anyway and any attempts at trying to help are just met with criticism and more dismissal.)

I'm just feeling really, really fragile right now.

Also, can someone please tell me that I didn't completely overreact and shouldn't just have kept my mouth shut in the other thread?

Spoiler: I guess I should keep this in spoilers since you spoilered it

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*hugs*

I wonder if it's the planets misaligning or something. I've been doing well for a while but I've also been having some bad mental health days since around Friday. I hope you feel better soon.

And no, I don't think you overreacted in the other thread. I haven't been following it lately but I just skimmed the last couple of pages and I think you started out perfectly reasonable. It was obvious you were getting more upset after some posts that really bothered me too (my brother is sitting here like "what are you groaning about so much I'm getting curious") but I don't think you ever got rude or said anything that seemed like an overreaction.

[Astrella]

Can I have some hugs, please?

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I've actually been feeling quite good the last couple of weeks – I'm on antidepressants that seem to work really well, I have a new therapist that seems super nice (I've only had 3 sessions with her so far, but I have a good feeling about her), and my chronic pain is relatively mild currently.

But since Friday I've been feeling horrible - I'm crying at the smallest things, I have bouts of anxiety that leave me shaking so much I can barely type and I'm just generally feeling really depressed.
Part of it is probably that the huge amount of hate the ace community on tumblr currently gets is starting to get to me (some people think (cis, heteroromantic) asexuals don't belong in the LGBT+ community, and they are vicious about it, and they don't care if they hurt numerous gay, bi, trans, nb etc people in their quest to kick aces out), to the point where I don't even trust my friends there anymore.
Another part is that exams are coming up, and while I'm usually doing pretty good, it's of course still stressful.
And I'm lonely - my only friend at uni is taking the next semester off due to health problems, so I'll be back to having no friends here. (Nevermind the fear that I'll never find a partner due to being nonbinary and ace.)
I'd also like to be more open about being queer, but I'm so afraid of being judged or losing the few connections I have, that I never talk about anything identity related.
I also feel like I'm losing the connection to people online, because my social anxiety makes it so hard to speak to people.
(And disasters like the arguments on the relationship advise thread make this so much worse, it has actively made me want to start selfharming again (or alternatively curl up in a ball on the floor and cry for the next couple of days). It's just telling me again that I should never speak up about anything, ever, because I'll just be dismissed anyway and any attempts at trying to help are just met with criticism and more dismissal.)

I'm just feeling really, really fragile right now.

Also, can someone please tell me that I didn't completely overreact and shouldn't just have kept my mouth shut in the other thread?

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I'm glad the antidepressants are working well and your therapist seems decent. *hugs*

Tons of sympathies as well over people being jerks and you weren't overreacting. And the social anxiety feelings making it hard to connect to people is rough, I hope that gets better soon too.

[Coidzor]

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I thought a lot of people overreacted by getting defensive, and were putting things in your mouth. For instance saying "but that advice was to Helio specifically!" when you had made it clear you had no issue with that advice, just the generalizations.

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This position of moral superiority would have more structural integrity if you were not putting words in peoples' mouths while complaining about people putting words in others' mouths and grossly mischaracterizing what happened.

Can I have some hugs, please?

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I've actually been feeling quite good the last couple of weeks – I'm on antidepressants that seem to work really well, I have a new therapist that seems super nice (I've only had 3 sessions with her so far, but I have a good feeling about her), and my chronic pain is relatively mild currently.

But since Friday I've been feeling horrible - I'm crying at the smallest things, I have bouts of anxiety that leave me shaking so much I can barely type and I'm just generally feeling really depressed.
Part of it is probably that the huge amount of hate the ace community on tumblr currently gets is starting to get to me (some people think (cis, heteroromantic) asexuals don't belong in the LGBT+ community, and they are vicious about it, and they don't care if they hurt numerous gay, bi, trans, nb etc people in their quest to kick aces out), to the point where I don't even trust my friends there anymore.
Another part is that exams are coming up, and while I'm usually doing pretty good, it's of course still stressful.
And I'm lonely - my only friend at uni is taking the next semester off due to health problems, so I'll be back to having no friends here. (Nevermind the fear that I'll never find a partner due to being nonbinary and ace.)
I'd also like to be more open about being queer, but I'm so afraid of being judged or losing the few connections I have, that I never talk about anything identity related.
I also feel like I'm losing the connection to people online, because my social anxiety makes it so hard to speak to people.
(And disasters like the arguments on the relationship advise thread make this so much worse, it has actively made me want to start selfharming again (or alternatively curl up in a ball on the floor and cry for the next couple of days). It's just telling me again that I should never speak up about anything, ever, because I'll just be dismissed anyway and any attempts at trying to help are just met with criticism and more dismissal.)

I'm just feeling really, really fragile right now.

Also, can someone please tell me that I didn't completely overreact and shouldn't just have kept my mouth shut in the other thread?

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I'm sorry that you're having a bad time, I hope you get to a better place soon.

However. Laying the responsibility for your emotional and mental health on me is incredibly unfair to both of us and is not doing you any favors when it comes to getting back up again.

[lio45]

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For instance saying "but that advice was to Helio specifically!" when you had made it clear you had no issue with that advice, just the generalizations.

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But that's the thing -- there were no generalizations. The advice was to Helio specifically, from the start. If you think it's a generalization, you're wrong. All these "you"s in replies to Heliomance's initial post are all meant to be read as "you, Heliomance, a non-asexual person".

I'm very sorry to hear Lycunadari happens to be going through a bad patch, but there's no way Coidzor or Cozzer or Aedilred or Heliomance or Icewraith or myself or anyone else I might forget who found themselves on the argument side of "it wasn't erasure, it was just specific advice in a specific case without us bothering to add asterisks and disclaimers for other possible cases out there" involved in the giving of advice to Heliomance after her first post is responsible for that.

[Lissou]

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This position of moral superiority would have more structural integrity if you were not putting words in peoples' mouths while complaining about people putting words in others' mouths and grossly mischaracterizing what happened.

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My point was that Lycunadari clarified that statements meant for Helio specifically weren't the problem, generalizations were, but the conversation afterwards kept repeating the argument of "this was meant for Helio, so why do you have a problem with it?". Lycunadari did not have a problem with the statements that were meant for Helio. They had a problem with the generalizations, which due to being generalization, were obviously not specificly targeted to an individual (a generalization is pretty much the opposite of that).

I didn't set out to put words in anyone's mouth, but you are right that by paraphrasing, I did just that, and I was wrong. This was due to laziness and not wanting to go fetch the relevant quotes, and I will remedy it right now. As I understand, the quotes that originally made Lycunadari feel uncomfortable were:

being in a relationship with somebody who isn't actually attracted to you is way worse than being rejected.

and, responding to it:

Yeah, my reading indicates that, uh, it tends to destroy a person's self-esteem and mess them up for 2 or more future relationships.

Both quotes were part of bigger posts that were targeted directly at Heliomance, but these specific sentences were general and I can see how someone who is asexual would be hurt by reading them, because yes, there are cases of asexual people in relationships with allosexual people, and nothing in those sentence that would indicate that it's somehow not "worse than being rejected" or doesn't "destroy a person's self-esteem" if the person who isn't attracted to you also isn't attracted to anyone else.
And sure enough, those accusations of being unfair to allosexual people and destroying their self-esteem are made towards aces on a very regular basis and used to say that aces shouldn't be in relationships with anyone who isn't also an ace. Seeing the exact argument that is used against you in your everyday life you definitely hurt from a place you know to be generally supportive, and so Lycunadari spoke out. I don't think it was an overreaction.

This being said, I realise that your name came up and it would be upsetting to be accused of things you never meant to do. But that doesn't mean Lycunadari was wrong to point out they were uncomfortable with some of the comments, as innocuous as they may have seemed at the time. Hurting someone accidentally is still hurting them.

I certainly didn't mean to claim moral superiority either. I hurt people through lack of attention, clumsiness, saying the wrong thing and so on, too. I'm not above any of it. I'm not above getting defensive when accused, either. I just feel like at this point, we just need to acknowledge how everyone felt and that nobody meant to hurt anyone else, and drop the whole thing.

I'm still available to discuss it in PMs if you want to.

[TaiLiu]

I won 4 games out of 7. Had fun playing the Halloween Gambit as White and the Englund Gambit as Black.

Oh, wonderful! I'm glad you had fun! Mind telling us chess-newbies about the Gambits?

[Jormengand]

I feel I could use a lot of hugs about now...

[JNAProductions]

I feel I could use a lot of hugs about now...

*Hugs*

What's wrong?

[Jormengand]

*Hugs*

What's wrong?

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Go look at the relationship thread.

EDIT: I'll PM you.

[Heliomance]

Ye gods, I'm regretting ever posting that question. Juniper, really sorry for the distress the whole thing caused. Everyone else, could we maybe not just move the argument over to the support thread? That'd be grand, ta.

[JusticeZero]

Holy heck, I don't know what this argument was about but I am really feeling kind've bad about seeing it blow up in the face of the person saying "I feel icky because of this argument". What. The hell. I feel super awkward and uncomfortable just reading that argument. I'm not sure that it counts as an argument at this stage.
By the way, I have a heteroromantic demi friend who thought she was ace, and whose partner thought she was ace when he proposed, who JUST got married; also, my sex repulsed enby friend is being extremely adorable with their sex repulsed SO. Have hope!
If you were in my area, I would hang out with you, but I'm pretty positive I am not. :p I wish you were, I need some friends in my area myself. My birth family is acting in ways that they seem to think is supportive and positive, but which in practice is a bit inept in icky and awkward ways. Avoiding asking me questions, acting like nothing had changed, etc. I think they're probably walking on eggshells, and at this point, I would be relieved to have one start spouting hate speech and argue with me.

[noparlpf]

Let's maybe drop this entirely for now because this is a support thread, not an argument thread, and I'm pretty sure we're not supposed to bring arguments from one thread into another thread anyway.