MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

[Peelee]

What about Stanley Nickels?

Well, the first known transaction with Stanley buckles involved a billion of them, so we can assume they are similarly valued. Though, admittedly, economic talks broke down during discussions of the conversion factor.

[Omnion Magnari]

See, that joke might be slightly clever, if the first sentence were true. In the circus scene, there was literally one person who found him beautiful and she was a woman, yes but everyone else save the goblins, was horrified or just confused.

there was a child who said its appearance made her "feel funny"

[Darth Paul]

there was a child who said its appearance made her "feel funny"

I'm home from work with an undetermined virus today, I also "feel funny". If I recall the expression on the child's face in that scene, I think we might be looking similar...

[b_jonas]

Question. Do you guys think that O-Chul might know that there's a planet in the rift? Very few people know about it, and Vaarsuvius only made up her mind to speak about it after she's left O-Chul, so it doesn't seem likely. But O-Chul is very smart, and he was right there in front of the gemstone that sealed the Azure City rift when it exploded, so he may have seen something.

I'm asking because of #1042, in which O-Chul has a guess about what the MitD is. If the MitD and that guess is related to the other world, and whatever the truth is about the Snarl and the rifts, then the special knowledge about that may have helped O-Chul with the theory, but this would also explain why Lien wouldn't believe him, because Lien and everyone else doesn't know about the world within world. This came up as I was pondering about the old suggestion I brought up about how the MitD sounds similar to Zero from the StickManStickMan webcomic.

You mean, a proper pros-cons spoiler? No, It's in the copyright section, and they don't get expanded notes. The only reason Snorlax gets them is because it used to be in the FBS precursor, and so I copied them over (ETA: and if pressed, I'll delete them before I add any to others).

May I ask why you have this rule? Is it only to cut down on the amount of descriptions you have to maintain in the first thread?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

May I ask why you have this rule? Is it only to cut down on the amount of descriptions you have to maintain in the first thread?

Because I do not want to encourage the discussion of copyright. For example, some might consider it a con. Others might not. No matter where I fall on the issue, people are bound to complain. And because I already got red texted once about discussion of copyright, I am not about to risk a second offense.

Grey Wolf

[b_jonas]

Because I do not want to encourage the discussion of copyright. For example, some might consider it a con. Others might not. No matter where I fall on the issue, people are bound to complain. And because I already got red texted once about discussion of copyright, I am not about to risk a second offense.

Hmm. So just not giving details about the monsters that you put in that section is how you're trying to stop that? Ok, I can sort of see why you're cautious, but this gives a sad situation. I'll have to try to search for details of some of those monsters (like the Vorlon) in the past threads and elsewhere on the internet then, but that's hard because there are 32 of them and I have no idea which ones are reasonable. Thank you for the explanation.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Hmm. So just not giving details about the monsters that you put in that section is how you're trying to stop that?

It's not the only method. I also wrote it into the rules of the thread, and whenever someone comes in and tries to initiate the discussion, I also will post to remind them that "professional topics" is verboten in the forum rules. In my experience, there is no silver bullet... and I don't mean for this particular topic, I mean for any of them (think how often "MitD is a god/Tarrasque/Snarl" have come up, even after section 3b was put in place).

GW

[Kish]

I'm home from work with an undetermined virus today, I also "feel funny". If I recall the expression on the child's face in that scene, I think we might be looking similar...

So MitD is a virus? *ducks*

[Emanick]

So MitD is a virus? *ducks*

Could be the case! Just one small issue - why would the Stereotyped Big Game Hunters be so surprised to see it in the jungle? Don't lots of the most deadly viruses (especially in stereotypes) originate from there?

[Jasdoif]

Could be the case! Just one small issue - why would the Stereotyped Big Game Hunters be so surprised to see it in the jungle? Don't lots of the most deadly viruses (especially in stereotypes) originate from there?

Even an optical microscope isn't sufficient to view a typical virus. Simply being able to see one without specialized equipment would be surprising in its own right.

[Emanick]

Even an optical microscope isn't sufficient to view a typical virus. Simply being able to see one without specialized equipment would be surprising in its own right.

Eh, good point. I was thinking that the emphasis was on the fact that they could see it in the jungle, rather than seeing it at all. But I could easily be wrong.

Can someone check for me? I sent my copy to a friend for her birthday.

[Jasdoif]

Eh, good point. I was thinking that the emphasis was on the fact that they could see it in the jungle, rather than seeing it at all. But I could easily be wrong.

Can someone check for me? I sent my copy to a friend for her birthday.

Like the "Published Canon" part of Section 1a in the original post says, they "never expected to see one of these in this part of the world". Which I suppose does mean the emphasis is on it being seen there, rather than being seen at all....

But "of course they're surprised to see a virus, it's a virus" seemed less convoluted than trying to root comedy on "Kish indicates 'ducks', and ducks quack, and a quack might misdiagnose something as a virus"

[Crusher]

Like the "Published Canon" part of Section 1a in the original post says, they "never expected to see one of these in this part of the world". Which I suppose does mean the emphasis is on it being seen there, rather than being seen at all....

But "of course they're surprised to see a virus, it's a virus" seemed less convoluted than trying to root comedy on "Kish indicates 'ducks', and ducks quack, and a quack might misdiagnose something as a virus"

I get that they're stereotypical big game hunters and thus can identify *anything*, but I'd still be pretty impressed by someone who could glance over at a strange looking being and immediately identify it as a gigantic virus. I mean, we know what they are, but how would you even know what one looks like?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I get that they're stereotypical big game hunters and thus can identify *anything*, but I'd still be pretty impressed by someone who could glance over at a strange looking being and immediately identify it as a gigantic virus. I mean, we know what they are, but how would you even know what one looks like?

I'm also all agog at how such a gigantic virus could even exist and why Oona would think it is small and will grow even bigger.

GW

[Keltest]

I'm also all agog at how such a gigantic virus could even exist and why Oona would think it is small and will grow even bigger.

GW

Not that I think for one second that its a virus, but Oona is almost certainly mistaken about the MITD growing any bigger. Whether he's just a runt on the small end of the size scale or he has some template that makes him smaller than normal, I don't think we've run into anything that doesn't grow at all in the better part of half a century unless it has a magical metamorphosis of some kind.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I don't think we've run into anything that doesn't grow at all in the better part of half a century unless it has a magical metamorphosis of some kind.

Elves.

GW

[Keltest]

Elves.

GW

A: That's only a quarter of a century
B: theyre growing, just slowly. The MITD is, as near as I can tell, the same size he was when he was found in the jungle by the SBGHs.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

A: That's only a quarter of a century
B: theyre growing, just slowly. The MITD is, as near as I can tell, the same size he was when he was found in the jungle by the SBGHs.

And in another quarter century, at current rate, will be the equivalent of about 8 year olds, which means they will remain size: small rather than size: medium.

Also: dragons.

Grey Wolf

[Keltest]

And in another quarter century, at current rate, will be the equivalent of about 8 year olds, which means they will remain size: small rather than size: medium.

Also: dragons.

Grey Wolf

They don't need to change a size category to change size.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

They don't need to change a size category to change size.

No, but if they are in a pool of darkness, small changes are not going to be noticeable.

And again, an e.g. black dragon takes 800 years to grow from Huge to Gargantuan.

GW

[Keltest]

No, but if they are in a pool of darkness, small changes are not going to be noticeable.

And again, an e.g. black dragon takes 800 years to grow from Huge to Gargantuan.

GW

But he's still growing over those 800 years. Theyre gaining 14 tons of mass. If you view the same dragon at the beginning of his growth and halfway through it, theres going to be a visible difference. Even a quarter of the way through that cycle the dragon should be about twice as heavy as when he started. Theres no indication that the MITD is undergoing any kind of growth like that.

True, I wouldn't expect somebody to necessarily be able to eyeball that change, but fortunately we have pictures.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

But he's still growing over those 800 years. Theyre gaining 14 tons of mass. If you view the same dragon at the beginning of his growth and halfway through it, theres going to be a visible difference. Even a quarter of the way through that cycle the dragon should be about twice as heavy as when he started. Theres no indication that the MITD is undergoing any kind of growth like that.

"A quarter of the way through" is 200 years. You asked for 50. It feels like you are desperately trying to move the goal posts now.

But sure, lets see. 14 tons over 800 years means .875 tons in 50 years. For a creature that at the midpoint of this growth weighs about 10 tons, that means you have to be able to notice a 10% increase in its mass. Equivalent of a human being putting on 8 kg. Sure, they might look a bit bigger, but you'd hardly notice it.

True, I wouldn't expect somebody to necessarily be able to eyeball that change, but fortunately we have pictures.

No, we don't. We never see MitD. All we have to gage his size from is the size of his eyeballs and how far off the ground they are.

Grey Wolf

[Keltest]

"A quarter of the way through" is 200 years. You asked for 50. It feels like you are desperately trying to move the goal posts now.

But sure, lets see. 14 tons over 800 years means .875 tons in 50 years. For a creature that at the midpoint of this growth weighs about 10 tons, that means you have to be able to notice a 10% increase in its mass. Equivalent of a human being putting on 8 kg. Sure, they might look a bit bigger, but you'd hardly notice it.



No, we don't. We never see MitD. All we have to gage his size from is the size of his eyeballs and how far off the ground they are.

Grey Wolf

Unless youre suggesting he has a hump or a nutrient sac of some sort hiding somewhere on the outside of his body (eww, by the way) that's really all we need. If he was getting bigger, his height would change, or they would need to make his umbrella larger or do something to accommodate the additional mass he puts on over time. But no, his eyes have just been the same height as a human's the whole time.

Also, in a side by side comparison, 8 kg of added weight is absolutely noticeable on humans, if not exactly surprisingly so.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Unless youre suggesting he has a hump or a nutrient sac of some sort hiding somewhere on the outside of his body (eww, by the way) that's really all we need. If he was getting bigger, his height would change, or they would need to make his umbrella larger or do something to accommodate the additional mass he puts on over time. But no, his eyes have just been the same height as a human's the whole time.

He has not had his umbrella for 50 years. He has had it for a couple of years, and replaced it once. And given he spends his time mostly in confined situations, yes, i think he might not have been standing his full height at any time - especially not in cages or under umbrella, both of which force you to stoop.

Also, in a side by side comparison, 8 kg of added weight is absolutely noticeable on humans, if not exactly surprisingly so.

No, adding 8 kg to a man does not increase their eye height.

More importantly, most species do not grow linearly, but in spurts. MitD might be in the lull between spurts. A gain of a few inches in height would not be noticeable in a stick figure comic, even if Rich bothered to think about it.

Grey Wolf

[Keltest]

He has not had his umbrella for 50 years. He has had it for a couple of years, and replaced it once. And given he spends his time mostly in confined situations, yes, i think he might not have been standing his full height at any time - especially not in cages or under umbrella, both of which force you to stoop.



No, adding 8 kg to a man does not increase their eye height.

More importantly, most species do not grow linearly, but in spurts. MitD might be in the lull between spurts. A gain of a few inches in height would not be noticeable in a stick figure comic, even if Rich bothered to think about it.

Grey Wolf

Not an adult human, no, but on a child? Absolutely. And if you think the MITD is at the final stage of his maturity, that kind of defeats your whole argument.

Anyway, if your claim is that he could be growing, he's just been increasingly stopped over as he does it, that should still give you an incredibly precise criteria to point to a monster and say "yes, this is it" or "no, this cant be it at all" with, on the level of the Big Scenes.

[Darth Paul]

Once again, even though I hate to introduce anecdotal evidence (look at the trouble I started with the virus thing), it really depends on the person whether a weight gain is noticeable or not. I'm already a pretty hefty guy and subject to periodic weight gain and loss (depending on how my thyroid meds are working this year, how well I'm sticking to my diet, etc) and so when I gain or lose 15 pounds- close to 8 kg- I notice it at my belt but other people claim they don't notice it at all.

I'm not suggesting MitD is on the chubby side necessarily, but look at his diet- stew and moldy cheeseburgers... so depending on how much he weighs already, a given weight gain might not be so much proportionally.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Not an adult human, no, but on a child? Absolutely. And if you think the MITD is at the final stage of his maturity, that kind of defeats your whole argument.

No. I said he might be in a growth lull. Humans concentrate most of their height gains in the first couple of years of life, with another significant bump in its teens. Since we are unlikely to have growth charts for whatever MitD turns out to be, we cannot rule out that his species goes into decades-long barely noticeable gains periods, just like dragons do.

Anyway, if your claim is that he could be growing, he's just been increasingly stopped over as he does it, that should still give you an incredibly precise criteria to point to a monster and say "yes, this is it" or "no, this cant be it at all" with, on the level of the Big Scenes.

That is not "incredible precise" by any stretch of the imagination. If, like a dragon, it mostly gains in body length rather than height, or he has been adjusting height to that of the box window by say, first standing on tip-toes and now stooping, there is literally nothing we can read into it. Furthermore, if he is barely growing, because it will take him 1000 years to move from Normal to Large, then a gain of .5% height in the time period might have easily been simply ignored by Rich as not worth attempting to put into the stick figure drawings of the comic.

Grey Wolf

[Garwain]

... might have easily been simply ignored by Rich as not worth attempting to put into the stick figure drawings of the comic.

Correct, it's a juvenile monster, still learning it's powers. That's all there is too it. That's why there is no point arguing about height or weight. MITD is a smaller version than its ful grown monster entry. How small doesn't really matter... But just small enough to fit in a panel with the other characters.

[Ruck]

Not that I think for one second that its a virus, but Oona is almost certainly mistaken about the MITD growing any bigger. Whether he's just a runt on the small end of the size scale or he has some template that makes him smaller than normal, I don't think we've run into anything that doesn't grow at all in the better part of half a century unless it has a magical metamorphosis of some kind.

Why would you assume the character who is apparently a Beastmaster is mistaken about a beast? Why wouldn't you assume it's your assumptions about how the MITD must grow that are mistaken, if they conflict with the comic?

[Keltest]

Why would you assume the character who is apparently a Beastmaster is mistaken about a beast? Why wouldn't you assume it's your assumptions about how the MITD must grow that are mistaken, if they conflict with the comic?

Well for one, she opened up her dialogue with a massive misjudgment about the MITD and his relationship with Xykon. One could also easily interpret Greyview's comments as indicating she has a somewhat poor understanding of her relationship with him as well, although that's not the only possible reading there. Regardless, she isn't an all-knowing encyclopedia of beastdom.

Beyond that though, most monsters that have abnormal growth cycles go through metamorphoses and change form, like Slaads. I haven't heard of any creatures in D&D that go through decades long periods of no growth whatsoever before suddenly undergoing a massive growth spurt. If you can find one, I will examine the evidence and reconsider my position, but until then "the MITD is a runt for some reason" seems a more likely explanation than "the MITD is going to spontaneously become incredibly massive all at once"