MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

[Kish]

Bless Weapon has a duration of 1 minute/level.

Bless Water costs 25 gold per casting and doesn't let anything overcome DR anyway.

[Doug Lampert]

Permanently? By D&D rules, I think it would have to be epic. The "Holy" trait is equivalent in power/cost to a +2 weapon bonus; adding that feature to a weapon you're crafting requires: the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat, eight days, 8,000 GP--and the weapon has to be masterwork to begin with.

At best, an exceptionally generous DM might allow it to be done by Limited Wish. Which means the ring would "merely" need to be imbued with a 7th-level spell...and drain 300 XP from the High priest whenever she wrote a letter.

Not quite. Remember that a weapon quality adds to a magic item's "effective bonus" and you need the base +1 enhancement bonus be added. So the cheapest possible holy weapon is +3 equivalent, costing 18 days, 720 XP, and 9,000 GP to make (remember that the GP cost to make is half the base cost, but you must provide 1/25 the base cost in XP).

We can use Wish with a XP component cost of 6,440 XP to make a resetting trap of "make item into a +1 holy weapon", I believe this will cost 153,000 GP and 334,240 XP to make. As far as I know, it's not technically an epic item, although the market price of 1,916,000 GP might give some people pause and the optimization level of resetting traps of wish is rather higher than anything ever seen in OotS other than however Familicide was managed.

[Note that the actual way to get a resetting trap of wish is to bribe an Efreeti or other creature with spell-like wish, since component costs are ignored for spell-like abilities so he can wish any non-epic magic item into existence, up to and including a resetting wish trap of making resetting wish traps.]

Alternately: Align Weapon is a level 2 cleric spell and makes a weapon "good" for purposes of bypassing DR without making it Holy. If this were eligible for Permanency then the cost would only be 1000 XP per casting. An item that casts a spell can use 50x the component cost to have the component's covered for free for all future castings. IIRC making additional spells eligible for permanency is explicitly allowed in the rulebook, but that language is missing in the SRD. So an item of permanent align weapon might be possible and much cheaper than the wish item, while still being out of reach of any reasonable actual character.

Ninjas on Bless or Align weapon. But I'll still stick with the possibility that the universe in OotS allows one or both to be permanent.

[Qwertystop]

Bless Weapon has a duration of 1 minute/level.

Bless Water costs 25 gold per casting and doesn't let anything overcome DR anyway.

Yes, but I said similar; neither one would work on parchment anyway. I don't think an Instantaneous spell that aligns a non-weapon object as Good would be particularly high-level; it would effectively just serve to confirm that the letter is from a Good-aligned Cleric. Isn't there a low-level Wizard spell that does something similar with a magically-hard-to-forge personal insignia?

Also, gold-cost-per-casting is included in magic item prices; it costs 50 times the per-cast cost for an unlimited-use.

[The Aboleth]

I think the real identity of the MITD is Serini Toormuck, polymorphed.

I feel like this would go against Rich's assertion that the MitD isn't something he just completely made up for purposes of the story. Serini Toormuck is definitely something he made up specifically for the story.

I get what you're saying: that the guess would be what she had been polymorphed into, and not what she actually is. But Rich is on record saying that the MitD reveal is a scene he is very excited about showing, and presumably it will carry a lot of weight; I personally feel that weight would be undermined if MitD was revealed to be an Athasian Nightmare Beast, only for one strip later to be all, "But not really! It was actually Serini Toormuck THE WHOLE TIME!"

[Jasdoif]

Permanently? By D&D rules, I think it would have to be epic. The "Holy" trait is equivalent in power/cost to a +2 weapon bonus; adding that feature to a weapon you're crafting requires: the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat, eight days, 8,000 GP--and the weapon has to be masterwork to begin with.

At best, an exceptionally generous DM might allow it to be done by Limited Wish. Which means the ring would "merely" need to be imbued with a 7th-level spell...and drain 300 XP from the High Priest whenever she wrote a letter.

If we're really considering this....the closest existing effect I think of is the 6th-level ironwood spell. It creates a duplicate of a wooden item with many properties of steel, and explicitly creates weapons/armor that are magic with a +1 enhancement bonus if only half the 5-pounds-per-caster-level capacity is used. I think it'd be a fair basis for a magic item that modifies a few sheets of paper to overcome DR/magic and DR/good.

Ironwood does have a duration of one day/level, and since it uses the original wooden item as a material component that means there's nothing left after the spell expires...but that'd probably be a feature for discrete diplomatic messaging. (Plus, think how much Inspector Gadget's boss would have benefited from this sort of self-destructing message....)

[D.One]

Now that I'm thinking about it a little bit more... all this debate about the Paper Blessing Ring of Thor is aimed into concluding if or if not MitD has DR/good, because of the scene where it gets a paper cut from the letter HPoThor sent to Durkon.

Well... My bet is still on DR/joke.

[Quartz]

Out of curiosity, how hard *would* it be to make a signet ring that auto-imbues things as Holy?

In that vein, what if it were the ink that were Holy? Just as you can put Holy Water in a Dagger of Venom, why not write with ink made from Holy Water?

[zimmerwald1915]

But Rich is on record saying that the MitD reveal is a scene he is very excited about showing

How old is that record? Because after fifteen years I can only imagine that telling this story has become nothing but slog.

[The Aboleth]

How old is that record? Because after fifteen years I can only imagine that telling this story has become nothing but slog.

I can't find it at the moment, but it's fairly recent (as in, the last few years). I think it was in that "Questions for Rich" Thread that he surprisingly responded to in detail.

I cast Summon Banana IX!

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Because after fifteen years I can only imagine that telling this story has become nothing but slog.

This is not an argument: this is a statement from personal conviction, which has no weight whatsoever. There is no way we can tell if Rich currently feels that "telling this story has become nothing but slog". We don't need to demonstrate that is not the case, the onus is on you to demonstrate that it is, based on something other than your personal failings.

Grey Wolf

[b_jonas]

I cast Summon Banana IX!

There is no way you have enough class levels to cast such a powerful spell. Can we just assume that you tried a weaker summon spell, and you only managed to summon me? Two somewhat relevant quotes are:

Neither. The reveal [of the MitD] is a crucial part of the story and it will happen when it's time for it to happen.

The reason that this scene is not the climactic pay-off that everyone seems to be looking for is because this [Durkon becoming a vampire and helping Hel's plan to end the world] is not the climax of this story. This is the beginning of this story. The point of this scene was to elucidate the stakes for the rest of this plotline and set up the conflict, so complaining that it does not resolve said conflict is completely missing the point.

This is the equivalent of the scene where Tarquin stands on the balcony and tells Elan about how he's schemed to bring three nations under his control and how they're going to have a great duel someday, and Elan looks on in horror at the giant flaming letters. Which, if you'll remember, occurred one-third of the way through the last book, about where we are now. In both cases, the point of the scene was to get the heroes on board with the conflict that would form the main body of the book. Because, as I intimated in the main discussion thread: This "Durkon stuff" is the main plot. If the only plotline that matters to you is what happens with Xykon, then yes, I would expect that the next year or two are going to be rough for you. But there's a long ways to go on this book, and it will have direct and unskippable ramifications on everything that will happen in the final book. The plot of OOTS is saving the world, and the world needs saving in this way right now.

[…]

Also, I strongly suspect that a lot of the complaints [about the pace of the story] are actually veiled criticisms about my update schedule, because the "eternal political debate" has taken up about 6 pages so far, interspersed with two different fight scenes and some character introspection. To which I say: I don't change the content of the comic based on how quickly I'm able to produce it.

I interpret that as saying that no, the Giant is satisfied with the story, and knows why he's telling it this way even if you don't yet understand, and it hasn't become "nothing but slog".

[The Aboleth]

There is no way you have enough class levels to cast such a powerful spell. Can we just assume that you tried a weaker summon spell, and you only managed to summon me?

*Gasp!* I've been found out! HOW DID YOU KNOW?!

Those quotes are good, but not the exact one I was thinking of when I made my assertion. However, I just went through all 5 pages of the "interview questions" thread and couldn't find the quote I was looking for. I distinctly remember Rich being asked somewhere about what scenes or plot points he was especially excited about drawing, and him responding that the MitD reveal was a scene he was very excited about showing. But I can't find the quote...maybe I'll give the entire Index a once-over later today when I have more time.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

*Gasp!* I've been found out! HOW DID YOU KNOW?!

Those quotes are good, but not the exact one I was thinking of when I made my assertion. However, I just went through all 5 pages of the "interview questions" thread and couldn't find the quote I was looking for. I distinctly remember Rich being asked somewhere about what scenes or plot points he was especially excited about drawing, and him responding that the MitD reveal was a scene he was very excited about showing. But I can't find the quote...maybe I'll give the entire Index a once-over later today when I have more time.

I have a reasonably comprehensive set of quotes on the topic in the OP. Is any of those the one you want?

GW

[The Aboleth]

I have a reasonably comprehensive set of quotes on the topic in the OP. Is any of those the one you want?

GW

Yes! Thanks, GW!

In fact, it WAS in the interview thread after all...I just missed it, somehow. Time for new glasses, I guess?

Here's the quote I was thinking of (bolded emphasis mine):

I don't know that "fun" really enters into it as much as "satisfying." And for those, it's the ones where I've been imagining and laying the foundation for a singular surprise for years and I finally get to pull the trigger. Girard's pyramid blowing up one panel after Xykon arrives was a big one, as was Malack's vampire reveal. Anything where I know the strip is going to shock everyone. I've been imagining the scene for MITD's eventual reveal for like nine years now, so I expect that may be the best of them all.

That doesn't seem like Rich feels the comic is a "slog," especially concerning the MitD.

[zimmerwald1915]

That doesn't seem like Rich feels the comic is a "slog," especially concerning the MitD.

Quote's five to six years old, but on the other hand, it doesn't seem like the kind of thing he'd change his mind about. Thanks.

[The Aboleth]

Quote's five to six years old, but on the other hand, it doesn't seem like the kind of thing he'd change his mind about. Thanks.

No problem!

Minor nitpick: The quote is actually almost three years old (it's from April 2015). Doesn't really change anything, but I felt the need to point it out, anyway.

What I'm curious to know is how close to the end the reveal will occur. Presumably it'll happen during the final battle between the Order and Xykon...but Rich has subverted our expectations before, so perhaps it'll come much sooner or even later. I can't wait, in any case!

[Peelee]

*Gasp!* I've been found out! HOW DID YOU KNOW?!

Well, possibly because Summon Banana I is usually enough:

Summon Banana I
Conjuration (Summoning) [see text]
Level: Forumer 0, Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 post
Range: Close (5 threads + 1 thread/2 levels)
Effect: One summoned banana
Duration: 1 post (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

This spell summons an extraplanar creature (typically a banana native to another computer). It appears where it designates and answers immediately, quoting your post. It responds to your opponents to the best of its ability. If you can communicate with the banana, you can direct it not to hyperlink, or to perform other actions.

A summoned banana cannot summon or otherwise conjure another fruit, nor can it use any teleportation or internet travel abilities. Bananas cannot be summoned into a forum that cannot support them.

When you use a summoning spell to summon an air, chaotic, earth, evil, fire, good, lawful, water, or fruit creature, it is a spell of that type.

[Crusher]

This is not an argument: this is a statement from personal conviction, which has no weight whatsoever. There is no way we can tell if Rich currently feels that "telling this story has become nothing but slog". We don't need to demonstrate that is not the case, the onus is on you to demonstrate that it is, based on something other than your personal failings.

Grey Wolf

While I'll admit I've never told a story THIS long, I've DM some long running D&D campaigns. For me, making the tale longer just made my anticipation of the final "unveil" (in whatever form it took. Who the bad guy really was, what the final fight would be, etc) all the stronger.

However, I'll admit none of them where anywhere near this long.

[Crusher]

In that vein, what if it were the ink that were Holy? Just as you can put Holy Water in a Dagger of Venom, why not write with ink made from Holy Water?

Hmm. It seems unlikely the MitD cut his tongue on a part of the paper with ink on it. I mean, papercuts usually come from the edge. That having been said, does holy water lose its effectiveness when it dries out?

The high priest sprinkling an official missive with a few drops of holy water isn't unreasonable. Nor is some of it happening to drip onto the edge of the paper and then dry out. If its still effective, that might be a more cost-effective solution than the entire letter becoming Holy or Good-aligned.

Now that I'm thinking about it a little bit more... all this debate about the Paper Blessing Ring of Thor is aimed into concluding if or if not MitD has DR/good, because of the scene where it gets a paper cut from the letter HPoThor sent to Durkon.

Well... My bet is still on DR/joke.

Well, sure, but I don't have anything better to do at the moment, and I'm in a mood to parse unlikely outcomes while my soup cools down (I enjoy hot/spicy foods, but hot/temperature foods/beverages burn my tongue really easily for some reason).

Along those lines, would magic item creation budgets drop if its a one-time use item? Surely its easier to make a single magic arrow, or magic scroll than a sword or reusable magic item?

[Riftwolf]

It depends on how much correspondence the HpoT gets through a day. If fifty letters require using an Oil of Holy Weapon, then the cost compared to an x/day or unlimited use item becomes higher.

[unbeliever536]

Along those lines, would magic item creation budgets drop if its a one-time use item? Surely its easier to make a single magic arrow, or magic scroll than a sword or reusable magic item?

Magic item creation is significantly cheaper for one-shot items (though I'm too lazy to check how much cheaper right now ), but a one-shot item is also much less useful and makes much less sense for this purpose than the hypothetical always-active ring.

[Riftwolf]

I'm just wondering how long we can keep discussing this topic before;
A) someone makes a page alignment joke, or
B) Wyclef Jean and the Rock turn up

[b_jonas]

Imagine a superhero like Superman, who can run or fly at a practically unlimited speed, and is tough enough that flying fast doesn't hurt him. When the villain throws Lois Lane off a skyscraper, and Superman hears Lois Lane's scream, he can get there to catch her in a fraction of a second, and catch her mid-air. There's no distance limit, Superman can arrive in less than a second even if he's on the opposite side of Earth.

But when Superman does this, he has to pass through every point of a path from his starting location to his goal. If, instead of getting thrown of a skyscraper, Lois Lane is captured in a room with a locked door, then Superman has to break down the door or the wall, he doesn't just magically appear inside the room. If a Superman wants to leave his home, he'd normally open the door or window first before flying away. But if there's an emergency, he could still fly without that, and then he'd break a hole through the door, wall, or roof, depending on the path he chooses.

The OotS universe normally uses teleportation abilities where you travel through extradimensional space. You don't have to take the whole path, you can just teleport into a locked room without ever passing its walls or door. I wonder if this is mandatory though. Suppose the MitD has access to some sort of magical long distance fast transport ability, sort of like Greater Teleport, except it's not extradimensional, but has to follow a path. My question is, could such an ability explain both the tower scene and the escape scene? If the MitD somehow casts this magic instinctively and doesn't know how it works, then he could break holes in the wall of the tower as he sends Miko and his horse away. In the escape scene, there's already a convenient large hole on the tower, so the MitD presumably sent O-Chul and Vaarsuvius through it by chance. This still isn't a very good explanation, because it's hard to understand how and why the MitD would choose to activate his magic transport ability, twice, when he challenges Miko. But many other explanations also struggle with explaining why Miko flies away if the MitD wants to hit lightly and keep Miko from getting away.

I'm asking this because I'm just re-reading one of my favourite books, Tündér Lala by Szabó Magda, and in that one, a few characters have access to such a long distance fast transport magic that acts on others (not themselves), and from the description it seems like the sent creature has to follow a path. This book itself doesn't offer a good match for the MitD, but other creatures could have such a fast transport ability too.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Suppose the MitD has access to some sort of magical long distance fast transport ability, sort of like Greater Teleport, except it's not extradimensional, but has to follow a path. My question is, could such an ability explain both the tower scene and the escape scene?

I mean, the straight answer is "yes, it would explain it". But the issue is that I don't think that ability exists in OotS, and it's not the kind of thing you can just drop on the audience unexplained. If and when such ability is displayed, and possibly explained by V, maybe? But it is a very specific ability that otherwise would feel like a massive ass-pull.

Although there is also a problem: the tower scene involved punching lightly. The escape scene has MitD in a box some distance away. It does not feel like it was the same power in both.

GW

[Kish]

Miko and Windstriker were injured after being punched through the wall, there were two holes in the wall, and they landed close enough that the creature could reach them on foot (or whatever his normal method of travel is). The only similarity I see to the escape is that two people started in one place and ended up in another, if you ignore everything else about the punch.

[b_jonas]

In Dominaria and future sets, Magic: the Gathering cards that have both rules text and flavor text in the text box will have a fine line printed between them. It is well known that Wizards of the Coast are planning lots of innovations in Magic: the Gathering many years in advance. The Giant has worked for Wizards of the Coast, and has some work he isn't allowed to talk about. You can infer from this that the MitD is a character who's appeared in Magic: the Gathering, and Rich has written flavor text for a reprint of that character in Dominaria or some other future expansion set.

(Don't take the above seriously. WotC rarely works that far in advance, the "fine line" is not a pun. I also already tried to find a Magic: the Gathering character matching the MitD, but didn't find any.)

[Grey_Wolf_c]

(Don't take the above seriously)

You bastard, you had me going there for a while.

GW

[The Aboleth]

Is it the general consensus that the MitD casted Teleport (or Greater Teleport) during the Escape scene, and that the reason it didn't go along for the ride was because it was hit by V's quickened dimensional anchor off-panel? I can't see what other ability could possibly fit as neatly as Teleport, and the MitD getting anchored off-panel seems a very Rich-like misdirection to me for some reason.

Edit: RAW, can one still attempt to cast Teleport while being dimensionally anchored? Seems so, but I'm not up to speed on 3.5 rules.

[Kish]

That's one theory, but no, it's nowhere near being a consensus.

Wish is an ability that would fit at least as neatly, without needing the Dimensional Anchor or handwaving how the creature teleported them to a place he wasn't familiar with.

[The Aboleth]

That's one theory, but no, it's nowhere near being a consensus.

Wish is an ability that would fit at least as neatly, without needing the Dimensional Anchor or handwaving how the creature teleported them to a place he wasn't familiar with.

You're right, I totally forgot about Wish. Doesn't Wish need to be highly specific in its wording, though? Like, it's not enough to say "I wish for my friend to be safe," but instead "I wish for O-chul and the elf to be magically transported to their Azure City refugee friends right this instant!" Or have I just had particularly stringent DMs who loved to play word-twisting djinni?