New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Page 45 of 51 FirstFirst ... 203536373839404142434445464748495051 LastLast
Results 1,321 to 1,350 of 1512
  1. - Top - End - #1321
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Hardcore's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Wrath View Post
    They are of type dragon, and we know that MitD is not "normal" (language, habitat, and most important, unusually small for a creature of his type). I'm going to admit this is a serious objection, though.

    I've never liked the Protean for the simple reason that a creature that can be almost anything and therefore do almost anything seems like cheating. On top of that there's the "always shows two eyes and always fits under the umbrella" - why would a creature which requires effort to NOT change form always meet a couple of restrictions like that? The very reason I don't much like it, though, makes it the only candidate that can survive any challenge - if MitD hangs like a bat from the ceiling, well, a Protean COULD do that, given the right choices.
    OTOH, the PRotean is a good choice for the comic originally started as a form of satire of DnD.

  2. - Top - End - #1322
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grey_Wolf_c's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007

    Default Re: MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Wrath View Post
    I've never liked the Protean for the simple reason that a creature that can be almost anything and therefore do almost anything seems like cheating.
    The protean cannot "be almost anything" and it most definitely cannot "do almost anything". A protean can only be a protean. And given the extreme difficulty we have in finding a way for him to do a simple teleport - never mind a wish - the idea it can do "almost anything" is simply false.

    GW
    Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.
    There is a world of imagination
    Deep in the corners of your mind
    Where reality is an intruder
    And myth and legend thrive
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  3. - Top - End - #1323
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    The protean cannot "be almost anything" and it most definitely cannot "do almost anything". A protean can only be a protean. And given the extreme difficulty we have in finding a way for him to do a simple teleport - never mind a wish - the idea it can do "almost anything" is simply false.

    GW
    That's not really addressing his point. The protean has a number of identifying characteristics that are being handwaved away, and it has such a wide range of theoretical powers that it can do basically anything Rich wants it to do, because "hey, he just copied the power of the whatever-monster" Its like guessing that the MITD is Pun-pun, or a template stack. Yeah, it could be that, but its dishonest to put a creature under the umbrella, hide the biggest identifiers, let it copy whatever power it needs without explaining how it knew to do that or that it could do that, and then say that you were playing by a specific set of rules for the monster.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  4. - Top - End - #1324
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grey_Wolf_c's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007

    Default Re: MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    That's not really addressing his point. The protean has a number of identifying characteristics that are being handwaved away, and it has such a wide range of theoretical powers that it can do basically anything Rich wants it to do, because "hey, he just copied the power of the whatever-monster" Its like guessing that the MITD is Pun-pun, or a template stack. Yeah, it could be that, but its dishonest to put a creature under the umbrella, hide the biggest identifiers, let it copy whatever power it needs without explaining how it knew to do that or that it could do that, and then say that you were playing by a specific set of rules for the monster.
    And this is not addressing my point.

    GW
    Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.
    There is a world of imagination
    Deep in the corners of your mind
    Where reality is an intruder
    And myth and legend thrive
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  5. - Top - End - #1325
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Colorado
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    The protean cannot "be almost anything" and it most definitely cannot "do almost anything". A protean can only be a protean. And given the extreme difficulty we have in finding a way for him to do a simple teleport - never mind a wish - the idea it can do "almost anything" is simply false.

    GW
    The protean can, via an action, have all or part of its body take the form of a very long list of creatures, and thereby gain certain capabilities of that creature.

    A protean can assume the shape of any combination of physical nondeific creatures at the same time as a free action. In fact, a protean’s form constantly boils, and it requires a move-equivalent action each round for a protean to maintain a certain shape (even if that shape is a combination of several shapes). Whatever its present form, the protean retains all its own special qualities. Plus, it gains the advantage of up to four extraordinary abilities from the forms it mimics (but not spell-like or supernatural powers).
    I think "be almost anything" is defensible; the only things not allowed are deities. If It may require an action of some sort to maintain a given form, but under that restriction, it can take the form of any creature or combination of creatures imaginable. Out of all the living things that exist in the D&D universe, the only ones that are not allowed are those with the "deity" tag, which is a tiny fraction.

    Given the wide range of abilities represented by the entirety of the officially published creatures, except for the spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities, "do almost anything" is defensible for certain values of "almost". But I'll concede on this one; since spells are so important to the D&D universe, taking away spell-like abilities is a pretty big bite out of "do anything".

    Changing the subject ...

    I'm not sure how much weight to put on the discussion O Chul and MitD have about farts when V arrives. It's probably just scatalogical humor. If we take the discussion seriously, though, then:
    1. MitD farts a lot, which may explain his odor
    2. O Chul confirms that MitD farts a lot; "That earth shattering sound did not originate in your bowels, for once" implies loud farting is a routine event
    3. MitD eats baked beans often enough to realize that baked beans produce gas, even given his general aversion to thought
    4. This implies that baked beans have a predictable effect upon MitD; this, in turn, implies that his digestive tract remains relatively unchanged


    I have to ask what sorts of creatures would be expected to smell bad because they fart. Hill giants? Ogres? Otyughs? Troglodytes? If it's a clue, it doesn't lead toward our usual suspects. And as noted, it implies a digestive tract that operates in the same fashion from day to day, which is not something we'd expect from a Protean.
    This ... is my signature finishing move!

    "It's never good when you make a fiend cringe" - MadGrady

    According to some online quiz, I'm a 6th level TN Wizard. They didn't give me full XP for all the monsters I've defeated while daydreaming.
    http://easydamus.com/character.html

    I am a Ranger Archetype: Gleaming Warden (thx to Ninja Prawn)

  6. - Top - End - #1326
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grey_Wolf_c's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007

    Default Re: MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Wrath View Post
    I think "be almost anything" is defensible; the only things not allowed are deities. If It may require an action of some sort to maintain a given form, but under that restriction, it can take the form of any creature or combination of creatures imaginable.
    No, it can take bits of them. It cannot become them. Whatever bits and bobs are boiling out of its surface at any given point, it is still a protean, and recognisable as a protean.

    "It can become anything" suggests it could become a dragon... but it can't. It can never pass for a dragon, or have the abilities of a dragon, apart from a very narrow subset of which it can only have 4 at a time. The protean's shape-changing ability comes with so many asterisks attached that this dismissing of the whole creature as "it can become anything" is so over-broad as to become meaningless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Wrath View Post
    I have to ask what sorts of creatures would be expected to smell bad because they fart. Hill giants? Ogres? Otyughs? Troglodytes? If it's a clue, it doesn't lead toward our usual suspects. And as noted, it implies a digestive tract that operates in the same fashion from day to day, which is not something we'd expect from a Protean.
    Fiber-based farts are caused by the digestive tract being unaccustomed to the level of fiber being encountered. When you ramp up the amount of fiber you are eating, farts are to be expected (i.e. "beans cause farts" is only true if you only rarely eat beans). If you maintain a regular fiber-rich diet, your intestines get used to that amount and calm down.

    Given that, it seems, MitD's diet is stable, there is no reason for him to have "intestinal distress" as the fiber-rich foods will warn UNLESS his digestive system is constantly changing, thus rendering any attempts at creating a stable fiber amount useless. So, if anything, that fits proteans better than anything else short of creatures who simply cannot deal with fiber at all (although good luck on finding a monster manual entry that specifies it).

    But really, rule of funny is clearly in effect.

    Grey Wolf
    Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.
    There is a world of imagination
    Deep in the corners of your mind
    Where reality is an intruder
    And myth and legend thrive
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  7. - Top - End - #1327
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Colorado
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    No, it can take bits of them. It cannot become them. Whatever bits and bobs are boiling out of its surface at any given point, it is still a protean, and recognisable as a protean.

    "It can become anything" suggests it could become a dragon... but it can't. It can never pass for a dragon, or have the abilities of a dragon, apart from a very narrow subset of which it can only have 4 at a time. The protean's shape-changing ability comes with so many asterisks attached that this dismissing of the whole creature as "it can become anything" is so over-broad as to become meaningless.



    Fiber-based farts are caused by the digestive tract being unaccustomed to the level of fiber being encountered. When you ramp up the amount of fiber you are eating, farts are to be expected (i.e. "beans cause farts" is only true if you only rarely eat beans). If you maintain a regular fiber-rich diet, your intestines get used to that amount and calm down.

    Given that, it seems, MitD's diet is stable, there is no reason for him to have "intestinal distress" as the fiber-rich foods will warn UNLESS his digestive system is constantly changing, thus rendering any attempts at creating a stable fiber amount useless. So, if anything, that fits proteans better than anything else short of creatures who simply cannot deal with fiber at all (although good luck on finding a monster manual entry that specifies it).

    But really, rule of funny is clearly in effect.

    Grey Wolf
    Eh, a protean can decide it wants to take the form of only one creature right now, and by actions, maintain that shape. It doesn't have to be a combination of this and that and something else and that other one, too. For many creatures, 4 additional abilities is a pretty good subset; do recall that it retains all its protean abilities, so it doesn't need to choose basic stuff like "moves" or "slam attacks". Taking a dragon's breath weapon and flight would be close enough to a dragon for most purposes.

    MitD diet seems to feature a lot of stew, not so many baked beans. But yeah, rule of funny, so it probably doesn't tell us anything, and the point about a digestive tract adapting to a fiber-rich diet is valid.
    This ... is my signature finishing move!

    "It's never good when you make a fiend cringe" - MadGrady

    According to some online quiz, I'm a 6th level TN Wizard. They didn't give me full XP for all the monsters I've defeated while daydreaming.
    http://easydamus.com/character.html

    I am a Ranger Archetype: Gleaming Warden (thx to Ninja Prawn)

  8. - Top - End - #1328
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grey_Wolf_c's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007

    Default Re: MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Wrath View Post
    Eh, a protean can decide it wants to take the form of only one creature right now, and by actions, maintain that shape. It doesn't have to be a combination of this and that and something else and that other one, too. For many creatures, 4 additional abilities is a pretty good subset; do recall that it retains all its protean abilities, so it doesn't need to choose basic stuff like "moves" or "slam attacks". Taking a dragon's breath weapon and flight would be close enough to a dragon for most purposes.
    Breath weapon is a supernatural power, not an extraordinary one, so no, the protean cannot take a dragon's breath.

    You have literally just proved my point of how your words create the wrong picture about the protean's abilities.

    Grey Wolf
    Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.
    There is a world of imagination
    Deep in the corners of your mind
    Where reality is an intruder
    And myth and legend thrive
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  9. - Top - End - #1329
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Ruck's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

    I'll leave the breakdown of why the Protean's powers are being overstated to Grey Wolf, but as I've said before, I actually like the Protean from a storytelling standpoint almost for the exact reasons Shining Wrath is saying he doesn't. A vast array of potential powers aren't much good to someone who doesn't even realize he has them, and I love the idea of the MitD, whose story to date has been learning to think and act for himself, have the lesson "You can be whatever you want if you put your mind to it" be literally true for him (roughly).

  10. - Top - End - #1330
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    A Michigan Far, Far Away
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

    I'll be completely honest: The main reason I don't much like the Protean is an artwork reason. It just seems too coincidental (up to the point of "staggers the mind") that every single time he is seen on panel, the Monster has exactly 2 eyes, at the exact same height, and the same color, as every other time we've seen him.

    It's possible, sure, that he changes shape when we can't see him, or that eyes are popping up on his other side... but it would seem like a cheat to me if that turns out to be the answer. Granted, the Giant is maintaining a mystery, and changing eyes are probably the one thing that would make everyone on this thread say, "Oh, yeah, protean", but at the same time, eyes in the dark are just about our only visual clue, and it's being withheld.

    And of course it's possible that he's maintaining his shape for some reason, as has been speculated somewhere along the line... but then the question is, why?

    On the other hand, it fits most of the scenes, and even the Escape scene if Rich is house-ruling the Dimension Door ability to act as a psionic Teleport only effecting O-Chul and V. That way, no "fortuitous shapeshift" is needed to acquire the power at the last minute.
    We know that the Giant doesn't feel bound by the RAW if the story is better told by bending them. That would be a very significant bend, though... so I'm not married to this explanation. And as I already said, I think the ANB is the answer... significantly, the Beast has Teleport as a psionic power already and no fudging would be needed.
    Last edited by Darth Paul; 2018-05-02 at 08:48 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Also, everything Darth Paul just said.
    Namer Of MitD Threads
    Charter Member and Head Ninja of Peelee's Lotsey Ninjas
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    [furiously scribbles notes on how Darth Paul is the MitD]

  11. - Top - End - #1331
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ElfWarriorGuy

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    The sticks
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

    Another page or two and it’ll be time to discuss new thread names!
    "You are what you do. Choose again and change." - Miles Vorkosigan

  12. - Top - End - #1332
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    A Michigan Far, Far Away
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusher View Post
    Another page or two and it’ll be time to discuss new thread names!
    Well, this suggestion might be a little long, but it would continue the current O-Chul vibe: "You May Not Know Exactly What You Are- But I Do".

    And as I pause to count, there are exactly 11 words in that line, which would go nicely with the 11th thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Also, everything Darth Paul just said.
    Namer Of MitD Threads
    Charter Member and Head Ninja of Peelee's Lotsey Ninjas
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    [furiously scribbles notes on how Darth Paul is the MitD]

  13. - Top - End - #1333
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Hardcore's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Paul View Post
    Well, this suggestion might be a little long, but it would continue the current O-Chul vibe: "You May Not Know Exactly What You Are- But I Do".

    And as I pause to count, there are exactly 11 words in that line, which would go nicely with the 11th thread.
    Allow me a a correction lest we be accused of being liars;

    "You May Not Know Exactly What You Are- And Neither Do We. Yet".
    Last edited by Hardcore; 2018-05-05 at 04:51 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #1334
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

    I'll toss out "MITD XI: clearly a recursive half green dragon."
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

    Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2

  15. - Top - End - #1335
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Kish's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2004

    Default Re: MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Paul View Post
    Well, this suggestion might be a little long, but it would continue the current O-Chul vibe: "You May Not Know Exactly What You Are- But I Do".

    And as I pause to count, there are exactly 11 words in that line, which would go nicely with the 11th thread.
    How about: "MitD XI: A Good Man"?

  16. - Top - End - #1336
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PopeLinus1's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Home, as is the law.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

    MitD XI: O-Chul I am your Father.

  17. - Top - End - #1337
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Mar 2013

    Default Re: MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

    Quote Originally Posted by kinglinus1 View Post
    MitD XI: O-Chul I am your Father.
    Just admit that I'm right. Yeah, it's a little weird, but the dietary preferences are totes more important than the spells-as-written. :p

    I like Darth Paul's argument about the Protean, tbh.

  18. - Top - End - #1338
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    A Michigan Far, Far Away
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcore View Post
    Allow me a a correction lest we be accused of being liars;

    "You May Not Know Exactly What You Are- And Neither Do We. Yet".
    Oh, I agree completely- but think of how many are (secretly) convinced that we do indeed know. Not that I'm one of those, no, of course not. And I was just quoting O-Chul in any case...
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Also, everything Darth Paul just said.
    Namer Of MitD Threads
    Charter Member and Head Ninja of Peelee's Lotsey Ninjas
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    [furiously scribbles notes on how Darth Paul is the MitD]

  19. - Top - End - #1339
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Colorado
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

    MITD XI: "You Go, Man".
    This ... is my signature finishing move!

    "It's never good when you make a fiend cringe" - MadGrady

    According to some online quiz, I'm a 6th level TN Wizard. They didn't give me full XP for all the monsters I've defeated while daydreaming.
    http://easydamus.com/character.html

    I am a Ranger Archetype: Gleaming Warden (thx to Ninja Prawn)

  20. - Top - End - #1340
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Colorado
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

    I learned something about Go today, and it reminded me of this scene.

    Note how MitD says that he has two open spaces?

    From Wikipedia:

    A basic principle of Go is that a group of stones must have at least one "liberty" to remain on the board. A "liberty" is an open "point" (intersection) bordering the group. An enclosed liberty (or liberties) is called an "eye", and a group of stones with two or more eyes is said to be unconditionally "alive".[19] Such groups cannot be captured, even if surrounded.[20] A group with one eye or no eyes is "dead" and cannot resist eventual capture.[21]
    Considering that all we ever see of MitD is two eyes - well, I don't think this is a coincidence. This may be a statement by Rich that MitD cannot die; alternatively, given that O Chul was using the two blank spaces to represent MitD's mind and heart, that ultimately MitD cannot be controlled by anyone against his will, swirly eyes or no swirly eyes (that is, MitD may not eat Redcloak when and if the spell triggers).

    Like the guy building Devil's Tower out of mashed potatoes, I'm not sure what this means, but I'm pretty sure it means something.
    This ... is my signature finishing move!

    "It's never good when you make a fiend cringe" - MadGrady

    According to some online quiz, I'm a 6th level TN Wizard. They didn't give me full XP for all the monsters I've defeated while daydreaming.
    http://easydamus.com/character.html

    I am a Ranger Archetype: Gleaming Warden (thx to Ninja Prawn)

  21. - Top - End - #1341
    Troll in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Skyron, Andromeda
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    How about: "MitD XI: A Good Man"?
    I’m a fan of this one.


    Peelee’s Lotsey

  22. - Top - End - #1342
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Elemental Plane of Water

    Default Re: MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

    I've seen people cite as evidence that the MitD gets sleepy after exerting itself too much, mostly in reference to this comic (the one immediately after The Escape Scene): http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0662.html

    However, are we sure the MitD is actually sleeping there? When I first read that comic years ago, I kind of thought he was faking it because Xykon was so angry and the MitD was worried about being caught up in Xykon's anger. Re-reading the comic just now, I kind of think that's still a strong possibility since the MitD mentions several times in the comics leading up to (and including) the Escape Scene that Xykon's rage was a very real concern for all involved.

    If MitD is faking sleep there, I'm not so sure it helps us one way or another. It was just a thought I felt I should bring up to the rest of the group here.
    Last edited by The Aboleth; 2018-05-08 at 10:53 PM.

  23. - Top - End - #1343
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Ruck's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

    Hmm, I don't have any ideas based around XI / eleven, but from recent dialogue (which, I now realize, hasn't changed since this thread began)...

    MITD XI: Feeling lucky to have new friends
    MITD XI: And so visually complex, too!
    MITD XI: ...is a thing I totally overheard some guy say

    "An Independent Variable" would have worked great for MITD X, but that ship has sailed. (Did we actually talk about that one last time?)

  24. - Top - End - #1344
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Mar 2014

    Default Re: MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

    Quote Originally Posted by The Aboleth View Post
    I've seen people cite as evidence that the MitD gets sleepy after exerting itself too much, mostly in reference to this comic (the one immediately after The Escape Scene): http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0662.html

    However, are we sure the MitD is actually sleeping there? When I first read that comic years ago, I kind of thought he was faking it because Xykon was so angry and the MitD was worried about being caught up in Xykon's anger. Re-reading the comic just now, I kind of think that's still a strong possibility since the MitD mentions several times in the comics leading up to (and including) the Escape Scene that Xykon's rage was a very real concern for all involved.

    If MitD is faking sleep there, I'm not so sure it helps us one way or another. It was just a thought I felt I should bring up to the rest of the group here.
    Aside from the sleep, the MitD also seems to get hungry from exerting himself. After knocking Miko through the wall, he is hungry enough to eat the letter to Durkon, presumably since there is nothing else around to eat. After stomping the ground, he gets "really tired all of a sudden. And still hungry." There's plenty of Little things pointing towards using his abilities exerts the MitD.

  25. - Top - End - #1345
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Europe
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

    Hi, guys! Here's an updated version of the list of scenes where MitD appears in. I've changed a few entries since the previous version, and finally added Start of Darkness.

    Windscion, D.One, Yendor: thank you for your help. Everyone, please point out what else I should fix in this, and please describe scenes of the MitD's appearances in bonus strips in the books I don't have. Once I correct mistakes, you can just put this to the first posts of the next MitD thread, and threads after it.

    -----

    Appearances of the MitD

    Appearances in online strips.
    • #23: Xykon says MitD is his secret weapon, will reveal him when the time is right.
    • #37: Xykon and MitD watch Roy set off the booby-trapped door.
    • #47: More crystal ball watching.
    • #82: Redcloak tells MitD off for leaving mess in kitchen. More crystal ball watching. MitD is in magical darkness.
    • #96: MitD can't see gate.
    • #97: MitD joins Redcloak in evil laugh.
    • #103: Xykon practices big reveal of MitD. Xykon is not satisfied, MitD listing spices to cook OotS with isn't scary enough.
    • #105: Nothing.
    • #106: Doesn't see gate again.
    • #109, #110, #113: Nothing notable.
    • #114: Xykon prepares to reveal MitD, gets interrupted. MitD is anxious.
    • #117: MitD wants to get revealed, Redcloak and Xykon stops him.
    • #120: Nothing notable.
    • #147: MitD asks to hold Xykon's phylactery. Redcloak refuses, MitD had broken all his toys. MitD gets fanged Hello Kitty umbrella.
    • #148: Nothing notable.
    • #149: MitD does exposition about the initiation rituals.
    • #190: MitD teaches Redcloak evil leadership.
    • #191: MitD doesn't want to go into abandoned castle. Xykon tells MitD should be scary and powerful.
    • #192: Nothing notable.
    • #194: MitD asks lantern archons to light him up.
    • #195: MitD asks why Serini's diary is useful, knows about magical books.
    • #196: MitD knows about Dorukan. Doesn't know about gates.
    • #299: MitD wants to be a valuable member. Redcloak says he can't help in making zombies.
    • #331: Still confused about gate.
    • #368: “Sometimes I eat to fill the loneliness.”
    • #369, #371: Nothing notable.
    • #373: Miko meets MitD.
    • #374: MitD has to stop Miko. Feels Miko's full attack as only tickles. Plays “Who Can Hit the Lightest”, hits Miko and his far through the wall, but they survive.
    • #375: MitD finds Miko's purse with letter from High Priest of Thor to Durkon, paper cuts his tongue.
    • #376: Xykon had asked MitD to not let Miko get away, and this was Xykon's idea.
    • #414: Nothing notable.
    • #415: MitD crystal ball watching on Miko. Confused about gate.
    • #422: MitD confused about Redcloak chewing out on decoy Xykon.
    • #426: MitD confused about three Xykons.
    • #428: Nothing.
    • #431: MitD confused about four Xykons. Understands the distinction between arcane and divine spells. Redcloak explains the decoy strategy to him. MitD still doesn't understand.
    • #447: Nothing notable.
    • #451: MitD grumbles.
    • #463: MitD plays tea party with toy green dragon. Paralyzed O-Chul arrives.
    • #474: Still tea party, now with dead Roy too.
    • #475: Haley and Durkon wants to retrieve Roy's body. MitD doesn't allow, shouts “Stop!” As alternate plan, Haley offers stew in exchange for Roy. Flashback to MitD eating moldy cheeseburger.
    • #476: MitD enjoys Belkar's half-cooked vulture stew. As Haley and Belkar starts to leave, MitD hears they're the Order of the Stick, who he's supposed to devour.
    • #477: MitD thinks about whether he should eat Haley and Belkar without Xykon introducing him first. Doesn't seem to notice Belkar's attack. Haley and Belkar escape while he's still thinking. MitD stomps after demon roach's advice, causes huge cracks in ground. “Wow! I didn't know I could do that!” Belkar lets O-Chul go, O-Chul falls back to MitD. MitD is “really tired all of a sudden. And still hungry.”
    • #484: MitD carries the paralyzed O-Chul.
    • #541: MitD is now in a large box with barred window. Wants to join Team Evil in betting game. Again bets on O-Chul escaping.
    • #543: MitD says he hoped O-Chul would escape, but it didn't work. Still doesn't know gates. Wants to get out of the box, Xykon doesn't let him.
    • #549: MitD is friends with O-Chul, trades food with him. Tells he eats anything but babies. Wants to start a club that girls can't join.
    • #550: O-Chul questions MitD about why he's friends with Team Evil. MitD wants to play, O-Chul promises to play go with him in the morning.
    • #651: MitD tells O-Chul about his youth. He always lived in the rainforest, although need not have been born there. His dad was BIG and a big eater. The MitD doesn't know what species he is or where he belongs, but thinks Redcloak and Xykon know. O-Chul convinces the MitD to start to think for himself, with a cheesy go metaphor. We see the go board. Fart joke at MitD's expense when Vaarsuvius arrives with a bang.
    • #654: MitD still wants to get the darkness lit up. O-Chul escapes, and in his parting words, reminds the MitD of the lesson from #651. MitD calls O-Chul his real name for the first time.
    • #658: MitD is worried about O-Chul.
    • #661: MitD says O-Chul needs to escape now, because Xykon will be really angry. Calls O-Chul his friend again. Shouts “ESCAPE”, O-Chul and Vaarsuvius disappear. Xykon doesn't seem to realize it was the MitD's doing.
    • #662: MitD is sleeping (or pretending to).
    • #663: (MitD not present.) Vaarsuvius and O-Chul turn out to have arrived in Hinjo's camp. O-Chul requests the most learned scribe because he has questions about the escape.
    • #699: MitD tries to replicate the escape on a hobgoblin. Deliberately misinterpreted Redcloak's words to bother someone else. Hobgoblin tells him he'd need to use magic for that to work, MitD says he's too dumb for that. MitD is worried about where he sent his friends and if they're safe. Mentions the other planes.
    • #700: MitD is not allowed in Tsukiko's room. MitD asks Tsukiko's help because she knows both types of magic. They discuss Tsukiko's fascination with the undead. MitD recognizes ritual scroll as “half a ritual”. Tsukiko promises she'll try to help him find his friend.
    • #701: Hobgoblin from #699 asks MitD to open the curtains before Redcloak's speech. MitD warns him about clumsiness with pulling a rope. MitD thinks the goblins are cheering for his performance with the curtain.
    • #702: Nothing.
    • #703: MitD reads Gobbotopia history booklet. Joke about how Jirix was dead.
    • #704: Redcloak thinks MitD doesn't know what a prime minister is.
    • #709: MitD meets up with Tsukiko to call in her promise to find his friends. Tsukiko tells him he shouldn't be friends with paladins, and that she can't help because the Cloister spell protects O-Chul from divination. Joke about Xykon's balls. Even if Tsukiko and Xykon can't help, MitD hopes he'll find O-Chul eventually, and recalls the detail O-Chul said about rain.
    • #828: (MitD not present.) Redcloak says MitD still watches the crystal ball.
    • #831: MitD (still in box) informs Redcloak that Xykon is angry. (The reason is that the resistance acquired his phylactery.)
    • #832: MitD now under umbrella. (Team evil is preparing to leave.)
    • #833: MitD still thinks of Tsukiko as a friend. Remark about the astral plane.
    • #886: MitD does not appear in OotS's illusionary imagination of confrontation with Team Evil.
    • #887: In tiny picture in illusion montage, MitD under umbrella drinking tea with O-Chul, while Elan, Roy and Durkon are present.
    • #899: Team Evil arrives to Girard's pyramid, MitD under umbrella.
    • #900: MitD's umbrella damaged after pyramid explodes. He asks which pelvis Xykon is looking for.
    • #901: MitD recognizes the Order of the Stick, knows they are O-Chul's friends. MitD refers to the paralyzed O-Chul accidentally falling to his tea party as him having captured O-Chul. Worried about the party, bluffs to Xykon that O-Chul and Vaarsuvius are more dangerous and must be already at Kraagor's dungeon, while Roy's party distracts Team Evil here. He cleverly uses the fact that Xykon never remembers Roy. The bluff works, they depart to Kraagor's dungeon immediately.
    • #1036: MitD shows off his new umbrella to Oona, with drawings of duckies.
    • #1037: Oona calls him “Great Beast in Shadow”, magnificent and majestic, “like in wildest dreams”. He saw MitD under umbrella. He and Greyview the dog treats him as if he was Xykon's pet who should obey Xykon, but MitD isn't willing to accept that idea. Oona says he almost bought two humans as food to MitD, seems to have heard that a human was MitD's best friend, but misunderstood as if he was his favourite snack. He also says he'd seen under the umbrella, he's a “magnificent monster”, envies Xykon for owning him, and thinks it's a waste keeping him in the shadows.
    • #1038: MitD understands that Redcloak needs to prepare his spells. Shows suspicious understanding of goblin culture with big words, demon roach lampshades that as clue to MitD puzzle.
    • #1039: MitD gets permission to do the painting tonight.
    • #1040: MitD feels lucky about new company, picks a door. Joke about adventure being off-screen.
    • #1041: MitD falls back, paints cross on multiple doors, including ones not on the ground floor. Holds paint can and brush as if he had two hands.
    • #1042: O-Chul and Lien covertly observe MitD doing that. O-Chul is happy that the MitD is not always obedient to Team Evil. O-Chul has a theory about MitD, but doesn't tell because nobody would believe it. O-Chul brought a go game board.
    • No further appearance in online strips up to #1120.

    Appearances in Start of Darkness (prequel book).
    • page 49: MitD is sleeping then waking up. He's in the jungle and loves it there. Naively baited by a giant steak on a hook, he gets trapped in a box.
    • Page 50: MitD asks hunters to let him out of the box, since it doesn't open from the inside. Hunters are surprised that he talks, and talks in Common. They believe he's a rare and expensive catch. “I never expected” They'll load him into the cargo hold of a boat.
    • Page 83: MitD is about to perform in circus, has stage fright. He likes stew.
    • Page 84: The ringmaster announces him as “Prepare to feast your eyes on ‘IT!’”. Audience reactions: “Oh my gods…”, “It's horrible!” (closing eyes), “And yet beautiful!”, “Mommy, I feel funny looking at it.”, “Blerrrch!” (vomiting), “I've never seen anything like it!”, “Woooooo!” (Redcloak's niece), “YEAH!” (Redcloak's nephew). MitD found the performance tough. The lady who cares for him doesn't understand, because every show he just “stands out on the stage and gets gawked at”. She gives him stew and has prepared his box. The lady also says the MitD's dinner was the same stew every day for over five years. MitD still likes stew.
    • Page 84: After performance, Redcloak's brother Right-Eye and his children meet MitD. MitD is in the box eating the stew from a bucket. The box seems to be the same one as the one in #541. We see the box from its narrower side too: it has a window without bars there. MitD remains in this box for the rest of the book. MitD recognizes the family and plays with the younger children with his toy plush dragon from #463. Right-Eye: “Almost everyone else who spends a silver piece to get into the sideshow recoils in abject horror at the sight of you”. They leave but will return tomorrow.
    • Page 85: Right-Eye says that no, they can't take the MitD home. He affirms that the MitD eats a lot of stew, and can sleep.
    • Page 88: Presumably the next day, Redcloak, newly arrived in town, is supervising Right-Eye's children in the circus. They meet the MitD behind stage in his box again. Redcloak was impressed seeing him. MitD: “I don't fit into the leotards the trapeze artists wear. Probably has something to do with all the stew.” Redcloak affirms that the MitD could leave the circus and kill all the guards if he wanted, but MitD says that would be rude. Redcloak invites the MitD to work for him. Work involves “Being scary, mostly. Maybe some fighting.” MitD is not paid by circus, Redcloak will pay three times as much.
    • Page 89: In Right-Eye's home, Redcloak tells him he wants to recruit the MitD for the Plan, because he's powerful.
    • Page 90: During the night, Redcloak steals the monster from the circus. Lifts MitD's box onto a cart with great difficulties. MitD rocks the box to reach the bucket of stew.
    • Pages 91, 92, 93: Still escaping from circus. MitD doesn't help, except he can lean his weight to steer the cart.
    • Page 94: MitD eats cotton candy.
    • Page 95: Nothing notable.
    • Page 96: Xykon observes the MitD. Xykon says the MitD is ugly, and is his “secret weapon” now, to deal with any heroes who try to stop Xykon and the Plan, as in #103. They're unclear about the details: “Well… what do you do that really terrifies people?” “Um… let's see… I eat a lot?” “OK, then, when the heroes show up, you'll eat them!” “I've never eaten a hero before.” Xykon also magically charms the MitD to eat Redcloak if he ever betrays Xykon. MitD has swirly eyes, reacts out of character: “Yes, master”. Xykon promises him all the stew he can eat and toys, but refuses to let him out of the box when the MitD asks.
    • Page 100: Redcloak orders MitD to lead the zombies to attack the castle of Dorukan.
    • Page 101: MitD has no idea how to storm the castle. Asks zombies to bring him tacos instead.
    • Page 103: A zombie has brought taco. MitD eats, with bite marks. MitD abuses the authority that Redcloak left him in charge.
    • Page 104: MitD has a feast with a zombie bringing more taco and a goblin band playing music.
    • Page 105: MitD still feasting. Xykon questions Redcloak about that.
    • Page 109: MitD reacts to the news that Right-Eye died and won't be resurrected: “Awwwww, that sucks. He was fun.”. Offers taco to Redcloak.
    • Page 110, 112: Nothing notable.


    Update 2018-05-22: added #376.
    Update 2018-05-29: in #475, fix spelling of "cheeseburger"; in #886, fix spelling of "confrontation"; #1037 fix spelling of "keeping"; SoD p. 88: fix spelling of "paid".
    Last edited by b_jonas; 2018-05-29 at 09:24 AM.

  26. - Top - End - #1346
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

    I vote for putting the Start of Darkness stuff in spoilers.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

    Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2

  27. - Top - End - #1347
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Europe
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I vote for putting the Start of Darkness stuff in spoilers.
    Why? Like the very start of the first post says, there's no point spoilering the important information about the MitD if the whole point is that we want to figure out things about the MitD from clues in the comic strip. And I don't think my descriptions are too spoilery about anything unrelated to the MitD above.

  28. - Top - End - #1348
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

    Quote Originally Posted by b_jonas View Post
    Why? Like the very start of the first post says, there's no point spoilering the important information about the MitD if the whole point is that we want to figure out things about the MitD from clues in the comic strip. And I don't think my descriptions are too spoilery about anything unrelated to the MitD above.
    Because it's been a while since I've looked at the first page and forgot the very first few sentences in the OP.. ignore me.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

    Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2

  29. - Top - End - #1349
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Colorado
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

    I believe Oona represents as female. She calls herself "beastmistress".

    I doubt it's important, more of an artistic choice, but in the penultimate panel of #1041, it is pretty clear that MitD has the brush in his right hand and is holding the paint can in his left - so, how does he hold the umbrella in place? He even tilts his head backward.

    Perhaps we can handwave this as the umbrella being magically kept in place somehow. It may imply a third limb, though.
    Last edited by Shining Wrath; 2018-05-09 at 03:41 PM.
    This ... is my signature finishing move!

    "It's never good when you make a fiend cringe" - MadGrady

    According to some online quiz, I'm a 6th level TN Wizard. They didn't give me full XP for all the monsters I've defeated while daydreaming.
    http://easydamus.com/character.html

    I am a Ranger Archetype: Gleaming Warden (thx to Ninja Prawn)

  30. - Top - End - #1350
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Brazil
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: MitD X: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me

    Quote Originally Posted by b_jonas View Post
    [*]#1038: MitD understands that Redcloak needs to prepare his spells. Shows suspicious understanding of goblin culture with big words, demon roach lampshades that as clue to MitD puzzle.
    To quote the demon roach:

    "Quick, kids: figure out which monsters have "trenchant political analysis" as a Special Attack"

    I've re-read this and it got me thinking. Maybe it's just a joke on us and our guessing of MitD's species. Or maybe it is a joke and still has some clue hidden in it. The "trenchant" word bugs me. It doesn't seems to be a word commonly used (but I may be wrong, since I don't live in a english-speaking country).

    Maybe TPA means something...

    Maybe there's some sort of anagram hidden in the expression...

    Or maybe I'm overthinking it...
    Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
    Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
    Our battles don’t hit theheadlines or shake the earth
    But they are few, can’t be everywhere, and we, many
    So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
    But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
    We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
    (Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)

    "I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •