Flash, Season 3: My name is Barry Allen and I'm the dumbest man alive

[LaZodiac]

This was the end of the season, not the series.

[huttj509]

Spoiler: Music stuff, and can I shake the composer's hands?

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Ok, so I noticed something I found *really* neat in the music. Trying to figure out if there's a good way to translate to forum.

First off: there's a slow melodic motif the show uses for sad stuff that I in part think of as Iris' theme, due to it playing when we first saw her death link here. Dunno what the soundtrack calls it. Also shows up in "I will wait for you" in season 2.

Then there's Barry's heroic theme, which is in the title credits and various fast "heroic moment" bits: link here, I'm referring to the fast notes about 14 secs in.

When Barry leaves at the end (the 'look back"), the music is a combination of the two themes. The overall note structure of the first, with a triplet structure inspired by the main flash theme. I find it utterly compelling, and wish I had a link to the S3 soundtrack already so I could link that bit.


It's not the first time they've done stuff like this by any means. The one I remember most is from the Flash vs Arrow where they very much play around with the respective themes and tones of the music for each, particularly in the vicinity of 3-4 minutes in where everythings just clashing wonderfully, and you can hear both themes woven in there.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Was this the end of the season, or the end of the show?

All the Berlanti shows were renewed (along with pretty much everything else on CW) back in March.

I'm looking forward (really looking forward) to the new Black Lightning show.

[random11]

All the Berlanti shows were renewed (along with pretty much everything else on CW) back in March.

I'm looking forward (really looking forward) to the new Black Lightning show.

Because there is nothing like a hero that STARTS depressed in a CW show, with more than usual potential to hide secrets from people close to him.
Usually it takes them an entire season to reach that point!

But seriously, the concept looks interesting, but I don't really trust the writers to make it more than idiots with superpowers and constant unhappiness.
I am however ready to give it a chance and I do hope they will prove me wrong.

[Dragonexx]

Spoiler: Finally, I get to use this:

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[Beleriphon]

Spoiler: 30 years later

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Speed force: Ok Barry, you learned your lesson, you can get out, you're free to go
Barry: Great, all I need to do is go back 30 years back in time, and it's as if I never left!
Speed force: NO!!!!!!!!

Eh, I'm fully expecting the next season of the CW superhero shows to end with a Crisis on Something Something Earths.

[khadgar567]

Eh, I'm fully expecting the next season of the CW superhero shows to end with a Crisis on Something Something Earths.

I one up this one because that episode gonna be season dayview episode of next season

[Hopeless]

So the climax to the second season of Legends reveals why Barry was

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led inside the Speedforce?

[LaZodiac]

So the climax to the second season of Legends reveals why Barry was

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led inside the Speedforce?

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Naw, that's more "oops we broke time a lot". I think the idea is that by having like 30 Reverse Flashes get caught up by their paradox in the same moment in time, plus the damage to time due to the reality changing Spear of Destiny. The damage Team Flash did probably didn't help mind you.

[Telonius]

My theory on Iris:

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Arthur Darvill was on the set one day on break from filming Legends. He was talking with the writers about a previous role.
Arthur: Well, then they had this spaceship filled with tiny people that would take the place of somebody who was about to kick it, making it only look like they were dead. So he just faked his own death and the whole time loop thing closed itself.
Writers: {taking notes furiously}

Regarding Tracy, I'm getting a serious Agatha Heterodyne feel from her.

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Huh, so I wasn't that far off.

[Metahuman1]

Alright, so, I just checked Netflicks today and Flash season 3 has been dropped on there. My question is, how many episodes do I need to skip to NOT have The Flashpoint Paradox shoved down my throat?

[LaZodiac]

Alright, so, I just checked Netflicks today and Flash season 3 has been dropped on there. My question is, how many episodes do I need to skip to NOT have The Flashpoint Paradox shoved down my throat?

This entire season is "Barry causes Flashpoint and then has to work to fix the consequences of it".

Flashpoint SPECIFICALLY? Like...episode one or two.

[Rynjin]

Alright, so, I just checked Netflicks today and Flash season 3 has been dropped on there. My question is, how many episodes do I need to skip to NOT have The Flashpoint Paradox shoved down my throat?

Zero. They call it Flashpoint but it's not the same changed timeline as the Paradox miniseries.

Though I don't know why you're watching a comic book adaptation if you don't want things adapted from comic books to be "shoved down your throat".

[Metahuman1]

Would most Spiderman fans watch a season long version of One More Day? Or Sin's Past? Or The Clone Saga?

Would most X-men fans want to watch a season long adaptation of Chuck Austin's entire X-men rung?

Would most Avengers Fan's want to watch a season long version of Avengers Issue 200? Or Ultimate's Volume 3? Or Ultimatum? Or Hero's Reborn?

Would most Justice League fans want to watch a season long version of Cry For Justice? Or Identity Crisis? Or Act Of God?

Would most Batman fans want to watch a season long version of The Dark Knight Strikes Again? Or All Star Batman And Robin The Boy Wonder? (AKA, ASBAR, or, All Star Crazy Steve And **** Grayson, Age 12.)


I could keep going but I think I've made my point. I despise that particular story line, it's bloody awful, and I frankly never wanted to think about it again years ago, and now, a show I followed for 2 seasons is making it a season long story arc, and it's a shared universe so to follow what's going on elsewhere in it's entirety, I have to watch it. Ergo, a particular story line I detest is being shoved down my throat.


*sighs.* This is going to be a loooooooooooooong set of viewing sessions.

[LaZodiac]

If it makes you feel better they do Flashpoint a lot better in the show than the comics.

Jay Garrick grabs Barry by the head and jams "STOP ****ING TIME TRAVELLING" into face hole.

[Metahuman1]

Would have helped a lot more if things you and I have already discussed hadn't happened as they have. (Speaking of and now that doing so has brought it to mind, do they even use this golden one of a kind opportunity to bring Black Canary back from the grave as a Metahuman Marital Artist superherione, or do they decide that adapting Barry Allan's worst story was cool, but capitalizing on it to at least do something worth while with it would be heresy against the almighty Ollicity Shippers and thus unthinkable?



If the sarcasm dripping form that question didn't make it clear, I'm 99% sure I know the answer to that question and just want an outside confirmation.)

[LaZodiac]

Would have helped a lot more if things you and I have already discussed hadn't happened as they have. (Speaking of and now that doing so has brought it to mind, do they even use this golden one of a kind opportunity to bring Black Canary back from the grave as a Metahuman Marital Artist superherione, or do they decide that adapting Barry Allan's worst story was cool, but capitalizing on it to at least do something worth while with it would be heresy against the almighty Ollicity Shippers and thus unthinkable?



If the sarcasm dripping form that question didn't make it clear, I'm 99% sure I know the answer to that question and just want an outside confirmation.)

She stays dead. The only permanent change the Archer crew gets from Barry's time ****ery is that the one black dude has a daughter instead of a son. Or vice versa I forget.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Vice versa. At least that they've admitted so far.

Really, at this point it's a toss up who's done more damage to historical continuity, Barry or the Legends crew.

[LaZodiac]

Vice versa. At least that they've admitted so far.

Really, at this point it's a toss up who's done more damage to historical continuity, Barry or the Legends crew.

The damage Legends have done to the timeline is repairable. Their ship is designed to "carefully" slice up time and make additions to it. Speedsters break the time barrier and cause all sorts of fiddly nonsense. To borrow Jay's analogy, the Legend's timeship just buys a new coffee cup.

[khadgar567]

between legends who dodge nuking entire time line( longious plot) or barry gender swapping baby my vote on legends at least barry makes minor adjustment not wreck the entire earths belief system to destroy some macguffin

[LaZodiac]

between legends who dodge nuking entire time line( longious plot) or barry gender swapping baby my vote on legends at least barry makes minor adjustment not wreck the entire earths belief system to destroy some macguffin

I mean weighing the two is a genuine question. If the legends had failed, the entire world would of been sculpted in the way Reverse Flash would of. Heroes would be dead and villains would be in charge and have won. The entire landscape of the world would change. But that's such a big, massive sweeping change that it's hard to really "get" the import of it.

Meanwhile, with what Barry did, it's a parent learning that their child could of, and in fact WAS, something different. Every time he thinks something negatively about this baby he's gonna go "...what if you were the other baby". It's a far more personal, and directly impactful, event.

[Rogar Demonblud]

The damage Legends have done to the timeline is repairable. Their ship is designed to "carefully" slice up time and make additions to it. Speedsters break the time barrier and cause all sorts of fiddly nonsense. To borrow Jay's analogy, the Legend's timeship just buys a new coffee cup.

You mean like ending the Tokugawa Shogunate by effectively assassinating Tokugawa Iemitsu before he sired Tokugawa Ietsuna, thereby rewriting the history of Japan and the world over the last almost four centuries?

[Starbuck_II]

Would most Spiderman fans watch a season long version of One More Day? Or Sin's Past? Or The Clone Saga?

I liked Clone Saga. More Ben!

Would most Batman fans want to watch a season long version of The Dark Knight Strikes Again? Or All Star Batman And Robin The Boy Wonder? (AKA, ASBAR, or, All Star Crazy Steve And **** Grayson, Age 12.)

Yes, All Star would awesome to have more of.

[Rynjin]

She stays dead. The only permanent change the Archer crew gets from Barry's time ****ery is that the one black dude has a daughter instead of a son. Or vice versa I forget.

Black Canary is the best of both worlds. Laurel stays dead, so we don't have to see her terrible actress any more, but we coincidentally get a Dinah Lance (no relation) with a metahuman powered Canary Cry that kicks ass.

[LaZodiac]

You mean like ending the Tokugawa Shogunate by effectively assassinating Tokugawa Iemitsu before he sired Tokugawa Ietsuna, thereby rewriting the history of Japan and the world over the last almost four centuries?

History wants to be "right" remember. Some other Tokugawa will sire Ietsuna. There were a lot of them.

[Pex]

Having been busy I wasn't able to see the show since the second episode of the season. I'm catching up on Netflix.

I like Tom Felton well enough, and while I don't think it was stunt casting I'm not liking his character's existence. His only reason of being is forced conflict with Barry for the sake of having conflict. Their relationship adds nothing to the show. I appreciate he doesn't hate The Flash. He hates Barry, but he's not otherwise presented as being a Jerk.

[LaZodiac]

Having been busy I wasn't able to see the show since the second episode of the season. I'm catching up on Netflix.

I like Tom Felton well enough, and while I don't think it was stunt casting I'm not liking his character's existence. His only reason of being is forced conflict with Barry for the sake of having conflict. Their relationship adds nothing to the show. I appreciate he doesn't hate The Flash. He hates Barry, but he's not otherwise presented as being a Jerk.

He gets better.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Arguably, he's about the only thing that did last season.

[Pex]

He gets better.

Hope so. I spoke to soon. Now watching the Monster episode where he goes off on The Flash as well. He is The Jerk for the sake of having a Jerk. I hate that. I hate Jerk characters. I don't care if that's the point. The idea is you're supposed to like hating the Jerk character. I don't and never did. I always just hated them. I get it there needs to be conflict for there to be a story, but the Jerk being his jerk self is not the answer.

But I rant. On the bright side I do see Julian and not Draco Malfoy, so that's something.

I'll catch up soon.

[Metahuman1]

Frankly after episode 4 he shouldn't even be on the show.

I'll give him a pass on collecting DNA from a legal minor (A child in the eyes of the law.) with out parent/guardian consent on the grounds that he might legally have been able to do so due to the investigation. Might. I don't actually know for sure off the top of my head, so, that one I'll give him.




He then didn't notify anyone in his chain of command (including the actual officers who do things like the actual arresting and the like), ran up to and after a minor whom he KNEW, or very, VERY reasonably should have known(Frankly, not checking that detail before pulling a stunt like that is criminal negligence.), had serious mental issues her whole life, and began verbally assaulting her in public, and ignored people who had the authority to tell him to stop, when they were telling him to stop (Joe, one of those actual cops working on her case with actual arrest powers, among other things.), all to boost his own ego and sense of importance and superiority to those around him.

In so doing, he triggered a mentally unstable girl to have a break down, and because he just happened to have been correct in his assessment she was a meta human, he almost got himself and multiple officers killed, and this was only avoided by intervention by a vigilante super hero metahuman that could not reasonably have been relied upon to come to the rescue unless he knew Barry was The Flash when he did this (and he didn't.), and he also allowed the suspect to actually get away to endanger more people AND cause massive property damage that will have to be paid for out of city and police budget, all for his grand standing stunt.


The next return from commercials should have been him either being put in cuffs, or the captain coming out and not only firing him, but having him black listed in central city, and advising every other law enforcement agency in the country that he was a loose canon whom saw nothing wrong with fellow officers dyeing to boost his own ego, and he should be black listed as well by there groups.

But because he's making life harder on Barry and Joe, he's given a blanket pass and had to face no negative consequences what so ever. And I expect he will keep doing it all season unless he's killed off, or get's actual super powers so he can become a super villain.





Oh, and Zodi, I have seen the scene with Jay Garrick yanking Barry up by the scruff to make him stop with the time travel now. No, no this was not at all awesome. This was kind of the antithesis of awesome. Not only for the reasons I figured it would be when you first mentioned it, but because it took it further. It double down. This was not used as "Time Travel is Pandora's Box", this was "We, the writers, are going to use Jay Garrick as our mouth piece to tell you you'd better get use to all the things you don't like about how your beloved characters are getting crapped on in this iteration, because we do not have to change and you can't make us so *Blows Raspberry*.". Particularly since, just like in the comic book, the only changes that stuck were to make things worse for people. Dante's Dead, making Sisko uber Angstey instead of the more enjoyable character we had previously. Catlin's turning into killer frost because after faking us out in season 2 and making us lower our guard, of course there going to force her to be a villain arbitrarily now (and I might add she was RONNI RAYMONDS nemesis, NOT THE FLASH'S, but hey, Legends of Tomorrow get's to hold out an extra middle finger so who cares right?) Iris and Joe have a beef just so we can rehash THAT plot thread for a couple of eps, and of course, Wally. Never Let it be said that DC doesn't take every opportunity to piss all over people who like Wally West.

The only enjoyable things we've had so far has been Jessie Quick, and Dr. Alchemy makes solid villain for Flash to be opposed by.






That said, quick question.

So, big cross over event, all 4 shows air 1 episode of it.

What order should those 4 eps be watched in? (Because I am at this point grudgingly pushing through flash season 3 and I have giving legends of tomorrow there 2nd chance just for them to piss it away and I am so very far beyond DONE with Arrow outside of cross over episodes.)