Dragon Ball In the Playground OOC IV: Planetary Annihilation for Fun and Profit

[Moskstraumen]

Hiya! I'm a huge Dragon Ball fan, and I used to RP around GiantITP a little bit several years ago. Is it alright if I join - should I just post a character sheet for a character I've had in mind?

[igordragonian]

Mosk- you are Welcome!

Razierr- well, it could be a reason for Vodkana to turn into the new destruction goddess.. Maybe.
And now she has a reason.

[Frozen_Feet]

@Raziere: I don't feel like making any detailed plans for post-Hailing, but your idea could serve as a plotpoint for Vodkana.

@Mosktraumen: sure, post a character idea and we can talk about what your character could start off doing.

[Moskstraumen]

Perfect! Here goes:

Sho Sho

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Age: 24
Gender: Male
Height: 5'8"
Weight: 240 lbs.
Species: Zoon-seijin
Station: Escaped Convict
Description:

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A broad, muscular, but relatively short fighter. He has mint green armor that covers his entire torso, chest, face, and head, with matching boots and gloves; covering his eyes is a sleek, black visor. Underneath of his armor, he wears a black jumpsuit - visible from his unguarded arms and legs.

Imagine Pui Pui, only stockier, mint green, and wearing a mask with a visor.
[IMG][/IMG]

Personality:

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Sho Sho is a practical, down-to-earth Zoon=seijin. He is singularly focused, well organized, logically-minded; due to years of solitude, and his relatively demure attitude, he has great difficulty in empathizing with or relating to others. Thus, Sho Sho is hardly one for boasting or even small talk, but he is reliable and fair as a comrade. He is an absolute egoist, though, and works only for his own interests - most alliances, for Sho Sho, are transitory, at best.

History:

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Born on the harsh world of Zoon, Sho Sho was forged in the fires of conflict. The hunters of Zoon are powerful ki warriors, fiercely competitive over their prey. As a young man, Sho Sho was inducted into these powerful hunters, where he learned mastery over ki and powerful fighting techniques. However, the arid climate of Zoon bored Sho Sho; he sought adventure across the galaxy, across the universe. After years of dreaming, he saw an opportunity when an explorer landed on Zoon in a fast ship. Sho Sho, incensed at the opportunity to escape Zoon, murdered the explorer and took their spacecraft. He was quickly apprehended by galactic authorities and sent to a prison on an asteroid, where he spent years in solitary confinement. He refused to let his skills deteriorate during this time and trained heavily while confined, to great effect: His power not only remained, but he became stronger and in greater touch with his ki. During a prison riot on this asteroid, he seized the opportunity to escape, stealing another ship and flying to a new galaxy.

History So Far: Nada.
Abilities:

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Ki Tracking: Due to his training as a hunter, Sho Sho is extraordinarily talented at tracking ki - even when it's being suppressed or hidden. In addition, Sho Sho is incredibly proficient at suppressing and masking his own ki.
Martial Arts: Sho Sho was trained in the Rizon Style of his planet - a form that focused on intercepting strikes and acrobatic, powerful kicks. He is extremely agile as a result, boasting quick punches, strong kicks, and even faster dodges.
Flight: Sho Sho can fly in planet atmospheres and (due to his armor) for brief periods in space.
Ki Use: The Rizon Style utilizes several ki blasts, which Sho Sho is incredibly proficient at. In addition to standard ki blasts and ki charging, Sho Sho has been taught special abilities and techniques.

• Xiao Sling: Sho Sho creates small, rapidly-moving key projecticles that create large explosions upon impact.
• Rizon Slice: Sho Sho jumps in the air and performs a series of kicks, creating blades of ki energy that spring from his feet.
• Mystic Cannon: Created during his time in solitude, Sho Sho designed the Mystic Cannon to be the strongest of his ki attacks. The attack focuses ki into each of his arms, where he fires two full waves from both palms.

Other Information:

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He is travelling in a white pod as fast as a Namekian urchin.

Is this acceptable?

[igordragonian]

Looks fine to me.
Where would you like to set him? How strong is he, in PL speaking?

[Frozen_Feet]

Looks fine to me too.

I think our characters could cross paths with him on Talsaiga. It's a far-away planet where most of our characters are going soon.

How does that sound to others? I think we're clear to jump to Talsaiga.

[igordragonian]

I am clear too.
I think also that Vodkana's tournament could also attract Sho Sho

[Moskstraumen]

Looks fine to me.
Where would you like to set him? How strong is he, in PL speaking?

I've been trying to figure out the average power levels of player characters right now, to no avail thus far. I'd ballpark it at about 80,000 or 90,000. More than a specific power level, I'd like this character to be a powerful newcomer-type, so around the medium-high tier of player characters would be good (wherever that is). I'm still trying to make heads and tails of the current story (since I'm just starting), so wherever that kind of PL would be appropriate.

Looks fine to me too.

I think our characters could cross paths with him on Talsaiga. It's a far-away planet where most of our characters are going soon.

How does that sound to others? I think we're clear to jump to Talsaiga.

That sounds good - is there anywhere I can get a background of Talsaiga? Or a brief recap of the reasoning for travelling there? Talsaiga is the planet with the cruel Eternal Dragon that someone here made up, yeah?

[Lord Raziere]

I've been trying to figure out the average power levels of player characters right now, to no avail thus far. I'd ballpark it at about 80,000 or 90,000. More than a specific power level, I'd like this character to be a powerful newcomer-type, so around the medium-high tier of player characters would be good (wherever that is). I'm still trying to make heads and tails of the current story (since I'm just starting), so wherever that kind of PL would be appropriate.



That sounds good - is there anywhere I can get a background of Talsaiga? Or a brief recap of the reasoning for travelling there? Talsaiga is the planet with the cruel Eternal Dragon that someone here made up, yeah?

Technically, currently the range should be about 10,000 to 40,000 for characters that are expected to be PCs or apart of the Rebel Alliance. Apfel is just someone intended to be an anti-villain to fight that we ended up in alliance of convenience with against Hailing due to circumstances, and not really apart of it, or any of the Sailor Squad for that matter....not that matters much, after the final time skip between Talsaiga and Hailing, we'll need to be MUCH more powerful if Hailing is anything like the Freeza fight. like "near 1 million base PL if you want to contribute to the BEGINNING of the fight without a super form" because Freeza is literally 1000 times more powerful than Captain Ginyu, the last villain the Z-Fighters face before facing Freeza. Freeza is pretty much three orders of magnitude more powerful than his most elite fighter and the only reason the Z-Fighters survive Namek at all is because they keep grabbing power ups all throughout the arc. It cannot be overstated how HUGE of a leap it is to go from Ginyu to Freeza.

I'm the person who came up with Talsaiga. Lokote is the dragon, and he is more of a trickster who is designed to twist wishes to entertain himself than specifically cruel, so as to trick a conquering warlord out of a wish a few hundred years ago. the reason for traveling there is because the Dragon Balls we currently have, we don't have password for, so we're wishing back the password to get for ours. Because of the twist nature of Lokote's wishes, this will have unintended consequences. and people there, the Talsaigans are basically humanoids who have evolved from anglerfish who need fusion to reproduce an breathe underwater much like how Namekians are humanoids who evolved from slugs an can live off sunlight and water.

Nice to meet you, Mosk. hope you like it here.

[igordragonian]

About power levels issue-

A- Nothing stopping us from making another arc before Hailing.
For example: he have Vodkana's tournament.. If we still up to it.

B- sudden power ups is all what an epic dragon ball arc is about.
Mostly canon dragon ball arc:
Peaceful life.
Unheard horror!
The unheard horror is too strong!
New plan\training.
The unheard horror is stronger than what we expected!
Everything lost, we are desrpate
New shiny power up! We win!


So it OK. As long we have fun ideas for power ups.

[Lord Raziere]

well Talsaiga I just have random scattered ideas for potential threats that might be worth fighting rather than anything specifically arc-worthy. Though there are things that can grow to arc-worthy and make them achieve power ups to defeat. But then again, with Lokote, I might just be able to WISH a threat into existence. Lokote is a tricksy fellow after all and can have his own motivations for how he twists a wish.

In fact, I think I have an idea now, but I'm more interested in whatever threat igor can come up with honestly. that and I'm trying to keep plans for Talsaiga as much as possible, with no specific threats planned, just a bunch of potential things that could be threats. You might face some of them...you might face none of them. Not gonna force any of it. Instead I'm more making a world where its your actions that will cause the threat to happen at all, because often in Dragon Ball Goku and Vegeta's own decisions to go off and face the threat is what makes the plot happen most of the time.

[igordragonian]

I didn't had any specific ideas..
just the tournament and a special Cross Clan namekian honestly. (Mostly to give 22 and 23 acess to the Trombonicon)
I actually enjoy world building, and I would like exprience Talsagia.

[Moskstraumen]

Technically, currently the range should be about 10,000 to 40,000 for characters that are expected to be PCs or apart of the Rebel Alliance. Apfel is just someone intended to be an anti-villain to fight that we ended up in alliance of convenience with against Hailing due to circumstances, and not really apart of it, or any of the Sailor Squad for that matter....not that matters much, after the final time skip between Talsaiga and Hailing, we'll need to be MUCH more powerful if Hailing is anything like the Freeza fight. like "near 1 million base PL if you want to contribute to the BEGINNING of the fight without a super form" because Freeza is literally 1000 times more powerful than Captain Ginyu, the last villain the Z-Fighters face before facing Freeza. Freeza is pretty much three orders of magnitude more powerful than his most elite fighter and the only reason the Z-Fighters survive Namek at all is because they keep grabbing power ups all throughout the arc. It cannot be overstated how HUGE of a leap it is to go from Ginyu to Freeza.

I'm the person who came up with Talsaiga. Lokote is the dragon, and he is more of a trickster who is designed to twist wishes to entertain himself than specifically cruel, so as to trick a conquering warlord out of a wish a few hundred years ago. the reason for traveling there is because the Dragon Balls we currently have, we don't have password for, so we're wishing back the password to get for ours. Because of the twist nature of Lokote's wishes, this will have unintended consequences. and people there, the Talsaigans are basically humanoids who have evolved from anglerfish who need fusion to reproduce an breathe underwater much like how Namekians are humanoids who evolved from slugs an can live off sunlight and water.

Nice to meet you, Mosk. hope you like it here.

Thank you, that was a very enlightening post. So, PL of 35,000 sounds good to me. Whenever you all decide to go to Talsaiga, Sho Sho can show up/crash land.

[Frozen_Feet]

It's a pity it's not Yamakami talking to that telepathic plant-thing. I feel like I missed a chance for telepath versus telepath match where both try to out-horrify another.

[igordragonian]

what about lightning dude?


And also.. is anyone but me watch dragon ball Super?

[Lord Raziere]

what about lightning dude?


And also.. is anyone but me watch dragon ball Super?

I am watching DB Super. I'm all caught up on episode 71. It partially inspired Tarasai, has convinced me that its definitely useless to track PL's past Majin Buu levels of power- assuming that its even useful to track them past Freeza levels- mostly because when your protagonists could potentially destroy the universe by accident, at that point its more of a question of keeping your power controlled enough to use it right than getting even more powerful. There is basically no point to any Power level higher than 13 Beeruses. Which is probably the best unit of measurement for Super levels of power.

[igordragonian]

Hmm..Spoiler

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Is Zamasu an idiot? Even Vegeta before meeting Goku used to annihilate populations for living...
And Zamasu can't setroy one single population of one planet?
Unless, he was planning on fighting goku again and again..

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Also, I am almost tempted to connect Zamasu with the Cross Clan.
He strangely the very streotype that the Cross Clan believe gods are...

Hmm..

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it's not exact.
Trunks for example, some how keepign up, without super sayian god mode...

[Lord Raziere]

Hmm..Spoiler

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Is Zamasu an idiot? Even Vegeta before meeting Goku used to annihilate populations for living...
And Zamasu can't setroy one single population of one planet?
Unless, he was planning on fighting goku again and again..

Dude, spoil the stuff below the spoiler as well, please, Ing is still waiting for the dub.

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I think its implied that Zamasu destroyed a lot more than just Earth's population before this. He kill gods in all 12 universes of Trunk's timeline, so I think the truth is that Zamasu has pretty much literally killed all the mortals in all 12 universes or at least a vast majority of them along with the gods by killing the Kais, and that Trunks might be literally defending the last mortals in all twelve universes. Earth might've just been saved for last or because its so out of the way that most of the mortals are not on Earth and Zamasu was just cleaning up the last few dregs on the remote backwater planet he save for last because Goku was from there.

However, if he really wanted to destroy Trunks and all the mortals instead of just standing around blabbering about his utopia and such, he would just have his immortal version of himself blow up the entire planet while Goku Black watches from afar. Its not as if he would NEED that specific one planet to build his utopia, and the Immortal Zamasu would easily survive. So there is some stupidity to Zamasu there. His plan didn't require the planet surviving yet the thought to just destroy the whole thing never crossed his mind.

While Trunks is doing some.....thing. Yeah, its weird. there are only theories about what Trunks has become, he might have achieved some transitional state between Super Saiyan Blue and SS2, he might have achieved some half-saiyan blue form because he is half saiyan and thats as far as he can go, but he definitely has blue godly ki in his new form thats definitely powerful and puts him on par with Goku and Vegeta.

While connecting Zamasu with the Cross Clan would be complicated; firstly, Zamasu is from Universe 10. Our history is some strange altered Universe 7 timeline. Meaning Zamasu never existed here. Secondly, Zamasu's evil never really manifested until centuries in the future, and he kept it well hidden right up until he was found out and started killing gods left and right and by that time there was no one to stop him. Zamasu is REALLY good at putting on false faces when he needs to. So, unless the Cross Clan somehow originated from Trunks's timeline and somehow went back to the past? I don't think its viable. I mean, the Time Patrol alone is probably going to keep Zamasu a secret as much as possible to make sure people like the Cross Clan or the Rebel Alliance don't find out about it, because um....a single Kai going rogue and nearly causing the end of all timelines and only saved because the God of Everything wiped out the timeline he was infecting like magical grey-goo before it can spread everywhere else is NOT something you want people knowing as A Thing That Can Happen.

I mean maybe Trombone could've seen what Zamasu does while being tortured in hell and thus become "enlightened" by somehow seeing a vision of that future, but other than that, its like....no, too convoluted and hard to explain. Because you'd have to somehow know about an event that happens in the future that wipes out all of existence in that timeline and not get hit by the attack that wipes that timeline out, or not get destroyed by the forever spreading Zamasu-ness before that.

Seriously, a Zamasu level threat, makes Majin Buu look fun in comparison. like a serious "we can't let this ever become a repeat incident" thing for all those who know about it.

[Frozen_Feet]

I follow super as a manga. It's would be largely useless to try to connect to super's events, as they do not happen in the timeline of our own game & trying to tie them in via time patrol or some such would be pointlessly complicated, as neither Time Patrol or Kai of Time interact with Super's events in any shape or form. It really would be best to just assume they don't know about it.

[Lord Raziere]

I follow super as a manga. It's would be largely useless to try to connect to super's events, as they do not happen in the timeline of our own game & trying to tie them in via time patrol or some such would be pointlessly complicated, as neither Time Patrol or Kai of Time interact with Super's events in any shape or form. It really would be best to just assume they don't know about it.

No, it wouldn't, and how great a threat it is to time in general, its actually hard to figure out how they would not know about those events since they y'know....

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IMPACT ALL OF TIME. And involves Future Trunks and the two main characters of U7, their main wheelhouse of time correction. FF, it wouldn't be complicated at all, they'd just go "that happened, lets keep it secret from everybody else and call it Threat-Z".

That and Xenoverse 2 has Goku Black as a character, they've been planning the involvement of Zamasu since the game was released.

the Time Patrol not knowing about one of the greatest threats to time is actively making them incompetent and unable to figure out anything. I can't believe that. That doesn't jive with my verisimilitude. Zamasu if he got out of control would've spread to all timelines, there is NO way that Time Kai isn't picking up on that. Especially if we're going with how you want time to work, because you want a limited amount of timelines, that means less to look over, less things to watch, and more likely to notice this. And I guess no one is going to notice that there are TWO ZENOS after that happened?

Face it, Dragon Ball doesn't care for time making sense, only for what the plot needs and not thinking about it after wards,which I don't believe is a bad thing. Time travel never makes sense anyways, so there is no such thing as "realistic" time travel, therefore that just means that it can be cool because no matter how hard-grounded you make it, it'll never work truly logically anyways.

[igordragonian]

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Actually this connection could be simple. Zamasu's fall didn't happened in one day.
Just thought, that somehow, he have readen the Trombonicon once.. And it touched some exposed nerves... He burned the book and yet.

It's mostly a flavor thing.

It's not THAT matter.
Maybe it would be simpler to brew a Kai inspired by Zamasu. As opposite- a scoundrel mortal loving kai. (Need to find a way to Japanise the name Prometheus.. Or maybe Mawi?)
A rougher kai who gave mortal intelgence and basic "secrets" like fire.
I donno.. Just all Zamasu's arc is.. Very inspiring and raising interesting questions, which I think were missed in order to turn Samasu into pure evil.

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Thanks for the explanation about Zamasu killing everything, now it giving the arc more epic taste for me!
Now when I think about it... I think there is an important explanation for many of Zamasu's actions: he sadist. Because there are bigger questions: The Super Dragon balls not limited in any way. He could just wished for his dream universe!
But no. He could also wish to turn into the ultimate warrior or something. But no.
He wished for this quirky body switch with Goku. So... I believe that losing to Goku so easily made him lose his mind in more than one way.

First, he felt intimated, to the point of mortalphobia (or gokuphobia?) And wished for immortality. But that wasn't enough... He has devolped sick obsession about Goku...
So I think he wanted to kill all gods with his own hands, to look at their eyes as they die.
So maybe, that why he toyed with earth and Trunks...
"But hey... This is just a theory! An anime theory!"

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As for Trunks, I think there is a scene where he sense Zamasu's ki... So I think he is devolping godly ki.
We know it's possible, because as far as we know, Vegetation gained the god form by training. (He also trained Trunks...)
And we also know that super sayian god is about pure heart and stuff.

So... Trunks devilling "saint\holy rage". I think he should turn into super sayian blue at the near or far future.


About power levels: I think they are matter on comparing foes.

Now, Goku's power tier is :" be gentle. The universe might break if you go too far".
However, when fighting others it is an issue.
He still will lose to Beerus for example.

Beerus and Champs are in the same league, but it mentioned that "it's clear that Beerus stronger".


Also I am a bit disappointed, that Buu is forgotten so easily and in cheap ways- always falling asleep when he needed? Seriously?

[Frozen_Feet]

@Raziere: it's not hard to figure out how they would not know. On the contrary, it is the simplest thing ever:

Kai of Time and Time Patrol are not shown to interact with plot of Super, ergo they didn't and don't. Your premise of "this impacts ALL OF TIME" is wrong, and Super takes place in a part of multiverse that does not affect, and is not affected by, anything post-Xenosaga.

I can't be arsed to consider hypothetical plot of a game that is not even out yet. That's straight in the "pointlessly complicated" territory.

[igordragonian]

Is the time patrol cannon?

[Frozen_Feet]

It is for our game.

[Lord Raziere]

@Raziere: it's not hard to figure out how they would not know. On the contrary, it is the simplest thing ever:

Kai of Time and Time Patrol are not shown to interact with plot of Super, ergo they didn't and don't. Your premise of "this impacts ALL OF TIME" is wrong, and Super takes place in a part of multiverse that does not affect, and is not affected by, anything post-Xenosaga.

I can't be arsed to consider hypothetical plot of a game that is not even out yet. That's straight in the "pointlessly complicated" territory.

No, Xenoverse 2 is out, and it story explicitly goes into Beerus and Resurrection of F, as well as having Hit a a character you can have on your team. Its pretty clear that the Time Patrol interacts with U7 timeline all the way through. It just hasn't DLC'd Champa and Future Trunks arc, which it will soon.

An explaining how there is any part of the universe that isn't affected by the Time Patrol seems more complicated than just them knowing that its there, and that their action was to send Trunks to take care of it. and would in fact require more parallel universes than mine:

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-there would be two Future Trunks who both somehow fought the Androids
-would need to explain how could they have any blind spot at all, given the Supreme Kai of Time, supposedly being the singular one, would require powers and monitoring over all 12 universes to do her job.
-will need to explain why they won't do anything about when they do find out- because if anyone is able to find out about events that get ret-conned away its probably people whose job is to retcon them to make sure time stays stable
-and then there is Zeno, who there is two of now, and is outside all 12 universes. Pretty hard to ignore that there is two versions of your boss living together, but what if your saying is true, there would actually be three Zenos, two in Super's timeline, and one in ours. So you'd have to explain how there are three different Gods of Everything who could destroy all of existence. I personally want to keep the Zeno count to two. Three Zenos is an unnecessary number of Zenos.
-The Time Patrol even in Xenoverse has been shown to interact with the Future Trunks timeline without any problems so, one assumes the whole keeping an eye on U7 timeline is just because thats where most of the problems happen rather it being the only timeline to guard.
-This is all moot, since the inclusion of Beerus at all in our roleplay is a Super thing, even if indirectly. that and there is the future knowledge that Agent RSQW gave us. Given that said knowledge is from the Age 1000, and Age only possible because Gohan wrote a groundbreaking book on ki, and said Age has history with the knowledge of things like Beerus, Super Saiyan Blue, Golden Freeza, and so on.
-that and if you eventually want to get this to the current age, we won't be able to have the excuse of all this occurring in an alternate past anymore. its more consistent to say that we're just apart of Super canon to make sure its all in the same world instead of trying for complicated explanations involving meta-timelines and why Zamasu didn't happen in this meta-timeline.

Why? because Zeno is outside the 12 universes. Yet he is affected by these events. So there has to be a meta-timeline, since Zamasu kills all gods of twelve universes in Trunks meta-timeline except for Zeno, whereas if there was no meta-timeline, there wouldn't be two Zenos, this would take place in the Universes and future Zeno would've remembered Goku. that means there is at least two meta-timelines: the Main Timeline, and Future Trunks Meta-timeline. You'd be adding a Third Meta-Timeline known as the Xenoverse Meta-Timeline, filled with all thirteen Universes and timelines within the Meta-Timeline, as opposed to only Twelve Universes in the other two Meta-Timelines. which would mean that the Time Patrol watches all of time within one Meta-Timeline and that the other two Meta-Timelines are completely unguarded. BUT EVEN THEN, the Future-Trunks Meta-Timeline was connected to the Main Meta-Timeline through a hole in time/space, where Zamasu began to encroach upon another Meta-Timeline. So not even Meta-Timelines are truly safe from the Zamasu Grey-Goo of Hatred. Yet somehow the Xenoverse Meta-Timeline never notices this, and is in fact only able to respond to one third of all problems in time at LEAST, which might mean there could be problems in all sorts of Meta-Timelines that we don't know about. Therefore there might theoretically be infinite number of Meta-Timelines filled with their own versions of the Twelve Universes and their timelines. Which screws up the entire point of making it so that there are only 13 Universes and everything else being an invalid timeline that gets corrected anyways.

And somehow, all of this is supposed to be SIMPLER......

than my explanation, which is that Future Trunks simply got sent on a mission to defeat Goku Black, succeeded, and reports back to the Time Patrol with Future Mai in tow not wanting to interact with any potential doubles of themselves, the entire arc being the time patrol mission Trunks was on, and then the Time Patrol just goes "lets keep this under wraps and watching the Thirteen Universes carefully so that there is no Second Zamasu". Zamasu and the Future Trunks Timeline is just some weird outgrowth of the U7 timeline that happened because Trunks changed things, and it got destroyed and its events retconned away. No three Meta-Timelines, no extra Zenos or Future Trunks's, and no Time Patrol incompetence.

So I dunno, the explanation that you want seems more needlessly complicated than mine.

[Frozen_Feet]

Your false premise is that we need some IC explanation for how our game doesn't interact with Super. We don't.

Our game is a separate creative work from Super, Xenosaga, or any other on-going DB thing. What happens in those other works only interacts with our game when one of us decides so. There is no compulsion whatsoever to add everything to our game. Even having some things from Super is not a reason to have all things; when this game started, Super wasn't a thing, and what's happened in it wasn't included in characterization of f.ex. Beerus, Trunks etc.

Just because Super exist now, doesn't mean you need to retcon its events to backstories of those characters. It is in fact easier to simply ignore them, that way we as players don't have to keep pretending our characters always knew stuff we players couldn't possibly have known about, because those things hadn't been published yet.

By acknowleding the non-interaction principle, you also remove any pressure of other players to keep up-to-date with Super (and Xenosaga, etc.). Since we know we won't all be following at even pace.

Or to put it other way: there already is a whole another Dragon Ball universe with all the things you claim I'd be adding: our game. And no matter how hard we'd try to make it Super accurate, it would still remain a different universe, because the process would be completely unidirectional - after all, none of Super's writers know a first thing about our game or try to make Super fit its universe. Your Kai of Time is not actually the same Kai of Time as that of Super/Xenosaga 2, and there is no compulsion for her to know all the same things.

[Lord Raziere]

.....you do know that both Hawkflight and Igordragonian have both expressed interest in canonical character interactions, right?

like, Hawkflight has explicitly said she wants to interact with canon characters in some small way. Vodkana's entire character concept is Super-connected. It was Hawkflights idea to make it the Thirteen Universes so that it makes more sense and I liked it. the very concept of divine energy is DB Super-connected. To have canon interactions, even in a minor sense, they need to be well.....accurate, if a canon thing happened, it happened to that character. you and Ing might want a smaller universe diverging away from canon, but I'm just trying to hold down the fort when two of you are going one direction and two others are going in another.

like if I'm to be honest, FF and Ing seem to be going in a more serious direction that expands upon abilities that were like only used once then probably never again and include some things that might even be out of genre.

Igor and Hawkflight seem to be going in a less serious more light-hearted direction that hews closer to canon in its genre of comedy and action. I kind of lean towards, but I can do other things as well.

All of us seem to be going in a IC politics direction that no one seems to mind that DB never did.

so if we're going different directions, we need this kind of explanation to make sure one style can exist with the other. you and Ing can keep going without the explanation because you don't desire those, but when Hawkflight wants to say go centuries into the future to see how Goku has been affected by our shenanigans and Igor wants to connect the Cross Clan to Zamasu, and neither you nor Ing communicate with them on that, well I have to do it to see how we can come up with a reasonable plan to make sure we can work with it since I'm up for anything.

So I reject your premise that I'm doing this as a compulsion, I'm doing this to keep the options wide, to include ideas from Hawkflight and Igor, and to make sure the players that desire this get it, to the point where I haven't gotten any of my desires, for y'know fighting the thing that DB was founded upon, because I keep myself silent about my own desires so that other peoples desires can be fulfilled, because I want to help people, and I don't care what that fight is, could be a canon character, could be whatever cthulhu-esque space gribbly Ing comes up with, could be anything in between, meaning I can go along with anyone.

I'mma be honest: I don't care if you want to be disconnected from it, you want that to not happen, provide me fights for my characters. Conversely You want it to happen, provide me fights. My characters meeting Goku? would probably result in a cool fight, so, there is a motive for me there to get that fight. What motive do you have for me to not one day have a fight with Goku or Zamasu? Provide me foes so that I don't have to include them to potentially one day fight them.

or you can me, the middle man out, and actually communicate with Hawkflight and Igor how to integrate what they desire with what you desire, because I feel like I keep getting criticism from you every time I introduce an idea to help with them. though my idea with Zeno and U13 at the tournament is my own and what I desire myself, because I think it would be a good goal to explore how a new God of Destruction and Supreme Kai is made without them dying.

[Frozen_Feet]

.....you do know that both Hawkflight and Igordragonian have both expressed interest in canonical character interactions, right?

Yes, and what I'm saying that when your source material is an on-going series with a poorly-defined canon, you pick one version of the characters to build on and you don't worry about how the "canon" and your story diverge from there on.

This has nothing to do with me disliking the things introduced in Super. It's just that trying to treat them all as canon at this point is impractical. For example, Super doesn't seem to acknowledge any time travel concepts introduced in Xenosaga nor is it building towards any of them. Instead, it introduces a completely different time travel mechanic, which is closer in effect and spirit to that of the original series.

I honestly like Super's version much more than Xenosaga's, and if Super had been released before Xenosaga, I'd be telling you to forget about the Kai of Time and Time Patrol as if they were bad fanfiction characters. But it was the other way around, and this game was built on Xenosaga.

I'm not saying you can't incorporate stuff from Super. But introduce them as new things, instead of something that was true all along. For example, if you want to have Multiversal Tournament with Zeno, you only need Zeno to exist. You don't have to assume everything that's happened in Super went down and that there are now two Zenos.

That's much simpler than retconning characters into having done things, or knowing things you as a player didn't know about.

EDIT: as far as "communication" goes, you do realize this is my primary venue of communication when it comes to this game?

igor and Hawkflight are perfectly capable of posting in this thread. You don't need to, and never needed to, function as a middle man.

[igordragonian]

Ummm...
Ugh...
What?

I thought we were discussing innocent theories...

And Razierr, why are you silent?
For example the whole Fenrir Arc and Clarinet were mostly meant for you...

Maybe I made the story telling poorly, but I really tried...

Also, I thought Ing enjoyed politics, so I've tried to use Spoon for some intrigues and such. (And maybe epic drinking contest l

Also I have been trying to push toward Budokai and Vodkana tournament's mostly because I wanted more fightings....

Honestly I haven't thought so deeply about time lines and all that...

When I created Vodkana, I was in awe from Beerus and also enjoyed world building Planet Meal. Also I wanted to roleplay her reform and struggle between her cheff side and destruction goddess side...
If she annoy any of you, I can find way to get her out of the story..

[Hawkflight]

Don't worry Igor, this has nothing to do with Vodkana. It seems to be mostly a disagreement on how to handle newly-revealed canon material.