Steven UnIVerse: 4shadowing

[Chromascope3D]

Spoiler

Show

Speaking of the Amethyst squad, all of them seemed to be lousy - certainly no Jasper! For a society that builds its citizens for a purpose, skinny-Jasper and runt-Amethyst must be huge disappointments, which explains why they are on the least glorious assignment possible - guarding a bunch of hairless monkeys for a dead Diamond. Holly Agate was probably shipped there for the same reason Miko got sent on frequent, long journeys away from Azure City.

Spoiler

Show

I wouldn't be surprised if Blue Diamond ordered that all of the Earth-produced Gems that she took under her wing be sent to the Zoo so that the sight of them wouldn't constantly remind her of PD. But yeah, we already knew the Jaspers were were pretty bad, since, as Peridot pointed out, they came from the Beta Kindergarten, which mostly only produced abject failures. Mostly.

It's also fascinating to see that general knuckleheadery is a pretty common trait among Quartzes.

[DigoDragon]

Spoiler

Show

Agate mentioned something about human disposal, so presumably they send gems in to collect the bodies when one of the zoomans dies.

Spoiler: New Epsiodes Stuff

Show

Conflicts with what was said about the door only being opened once. And the humans didn't seem to understand the concept of a door. Human disposal likely involves something else. Maybe another ritual--the Sending or something.

[Snowbluff]

Spoiler

Show

It's also fascinating to see that general knuckleheadery is a pretty common trait among Quartzes.

Spoiler

Show

I suspect Jasper spent a lot of time working on her reputation. Between that and all of the other Quartzes from eather (amethysts are dumb/undisciplined, other Jaspers are defective), and how no one likes Earth, Jasper is probably the only person for the mission.

[Draconi Redfir]

Spoiler

Show

You think that maybe, just maybe, there's something about the earth that gets inside a gem, if they let it, and makes them want to be a good person? Because even the gems we like seem cold and dismissive of the humans at first.

Spoiler

Show

i doubt it myself. Gives off too much of an "Earth is magical" feel, why would Earth be any different then any other planet that the Gem's took over that happened to support life?

Best bet is one of two options. Either Pink Dimond decided to change the recipie of her gems to give them a little more personality so they can easily be distinquished as "Her" gems, or Gems aren't quite as robotic and soulless as homeworld propaganda would have you to beleive.

[Rater202]

Spoiler

Show

i doubt it myself. Gives off too much of an "Earth is magical" feel, why would Earth be any different then any other planet that the Gem's took over that happened to support life?

Best bet is one of two options. Either Pink Dimond decided to change the recipie of her gems to give them a little more personality so they can easily be distinquished as "Her" gems, or Gems aren't quite as robotic and soulless as homeworld propaganda would have you to beleive.

Spoiler

Show

I never said "something magical," and to be honest... as far as we know, Earth is the only colony that supported life. The Gems don't breath, don't eat, don't sleep unless they're utterly exhausted, and automatically adjust to gravity--we have no indication that the Kindergartern's just suck the life force out of a planet as opposed to sucking up the same minerals and stuff that the local plants and animals need to live.

As far as we know, Rose's Rebellion is the first an only as well.

The earth is beautiful, and full of sentient, sapient life. Perhaps gems that interact with that become better people for interacting with it? If they take the time to smell the flowers, or watch a sunset,or listen to the songs of the native humans?

That's what I meant.

Alternatively, gems live a long time, and all "the wall opened once long ago and a gem came through" means is that the wall opened once in living memory of the current generation of zoomans. It's possible that these quartzes, seeing as how they're basically in charge of the care of the Zoomans, have interacted with them over the course of many human generations for a similar effect?

[DigoDragon]

Spoiler

Show

The Gems don't breath, don't eat, don't sleep unless they're utterly exhausted, and automatically adjust to gravity--we have no indication that the Kindergartern's just suck the life force out of a planet as opposed to sucking up the same minerals and stuff that the local plants and animals need to live.

Spoiler: Kindergartens

Show

I thought Peridot explained that kindergartens suck up the local life force to incubate and grow gems.

Edit: Okay, in the "How Gems Are Made" class room short it explains that the local energy of the planet is sucked up to grow gems.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Spoiler

Show

I never said "something magical," and to be honest... as far as we know, Earth is the only colony that supported life.

Indeed, it doesn't need to be magical. All it needs is for the rebellion to slow the "Gemiforming" of the planet enough for the local conditions to take effect.

Spoiler

Show

we have no indication that the Kindergartern's just suck the life force out of a planet as opposed to sucking up the same minerals and stuff that the local plants and animals need to live.

This is covered in the "How are gems made?" short, and in "On the Run" the ground surrounding the Kindergartern is barren, in the middle of fertile countryside. And the surroundings still haven't recovered.

The Beta Kindergartern looked to be in rocky desert to start with, so the difference wasn't clear.

Spoiler

Show

Alternatively, gems live a long time, and all "the wall opened once long ago and a gem came through" means is that the wall opened once in living memory of the current generation of zoomans. It's possible that these quartzes, seeing as how they're basically in charge of the care of the Zoomans, have interacted with them over the course of many human generations for a similar effect?

I suspect that the "living memory" of the zoomans isn't very long. Given their environment I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't have long memories.

[Draconi Redfir]

Spoiler

Show

I never said "something magical," and to be honest... as far as we know, Earth is the only colony that supported life.

The earth is beautiful, and full of sentient, sapient life. Perhaps gems that interact with that become better people for interacting with it? If they take the time to smell the flowers, or watch a sunset,or listen to the songs of the native humans?

Indeed, it doesn't need to be magical. All it needs is for the rebellion to slow the "Gemiforming" of the planet enough for the local conditions to take effect.

Okay, maybe the earth itself isn't LITERALLY magical, but you're still implying that just standing on the earth causes Gems to change aren't you? That has a very "earth is magical" feel if you know what i mean. not saying it's literally magical, but by claiming the earth transforms gems like this, you are making it feel as if it is.

I don't think i can believe that Earth is the first / only colony to have organic, sentient life on it, granted we haven't seen other planets on the show just yet, but Yellow Dimond knew all about organic life and despised it, so it's fair to assume she knows about it from other planets. We're not sure if organic life is necessary to make new quartzes or not, but if it is, i fail to see how earth would be any different to any other planet.

In real-life alone we know of several planets that could potentially be earth-like already with the possibility of life on them, i doubt that Earth in steven universe is the only example of vast biodiversity the Gems have ever encountered in their vast empire. The only thing that makes it different is that it was Pink Dimond's first colony, our Rose Quarz was made on it, and she decided to rebel against her dimond.

Again it's possible Pink Dimond's Gems (or at least Rose Quarzes) were given a little more personality as a sort of marker or experiment on making her gems unique, so that could have been why no other gems reacted in such a way when made on a planet with vast biodiversity.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Okay, maybe the earth itself isn't LITERALLY magical, but you're still implying that just standing on the earth causes Gems to change aren't you? That has a very "earth is magical" feel if you know what i mean. not saying it's literally magical, but by claiming the earth transforms gems like this, you are making it feel as if it is.

My view is that any planet capable of supporting life would have the same affect, but the Homeworld gems have usually ripped out the the guts of the planet long before the effects would have been noticible. The rebellion simply stopped the process quickly enough that the planet could recover.

There's no need to invoke "earth is magical" at all. I didn't suggest a mechanism for this, but it could be as simple as the gem injectors consuming the surrounding organic material (as per "How are Gems Made?").

Given what the fully Gemiformed planets look like, it could even be a function of the magnetic core. Actually, the core is a good possibility since the cluster was set to incubate in the core.

EDIT:

In real-life alone we know of several planets that could potentially be earth-like already with the possibility of life on them, i doubt that Earth in steven universe is the only example of vast biodiversity the Gems have ever encountered in their vast empire. The only thing that makes it different is that it was Pink Dimond's first colony, our Rose Quarz was made on it, and she decided to rebel against her dimond.

So? My position is that there is no time for Homeworld to see the effects of a biodiverse planet because as soon as they get their hands on it it quickly stops being biodiverse.

Also, Homeworld has only had one rebellion (at least that we know of). By the same argument (there are lots of colony planets, therefore it is doubtful that this is the only one that has ever rebelled) lots of colonies should be rebelling.

Thinking about it: If I recall Peridot makes an argument in favour of Earth to Yellow Diamond based on its biodiversity. It may be that Peridot is the first Homeworlder to realise the advantages of a biodiverse planet.

[Rater202]

Spoiler: Kindergartens

Show

I thought Peridot explained that kindergartens suck up the local life force to incubate and grow gems.

Edit: Okay, in the "How Gems Are Made" class room short it explains that the local energy of the planet is sucked up to grow gems.

Indeed, it doesn't need to be magical. All it needs is for the rebellion to slow the "Gemiforming" of the planet enough for the local conditions to take effect.



This is covered in the "How are gems made?" short, and in "On the Run" the ground surrounding the Kindergartern is barren, in the middle of fertile countryside. And the surroundings still haven't recovered.

The Beta Kindergartern looked to be in rocky desert to start with, so the difference wasn't clear.



I suspect that the "living memory" of the zoomans isn't very long. Given their environment I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't have long memories.

Spoiler

Show

No Where does it say "life energy, Amethyst says "good stuff." That could still be mundane nutrients and minerals in the sil, and mass producing the gems had the effect of sucking so much out of the ground that it became impossible for the local area to recover.

Okay, maybe the earth itself isn't LITERALLY magical, but you're still implying that just standing on the earth causes Gems to change aren't you?

Spoiler

Show

If it weren't for the fact that I said "interacting" with the earth and "if the gem let's it."

I mean, honestly, if I were saying that just being on the Earth made gems better, you could just point to Perfect Jasper and have an obvious counter-example. But that's not what I'm arguing.

Look at Peridot: She started off cold with little Empathy. Interacting with Steven and the Crystal Gems(who'd already be through this process) caused Peridot to experience empathy and become more in touch with her emotions, and actually studying the Earth and it's inhabitants caused her to find things about the earth that she liked. She seems to be a better person after all of that than she does when she first showed up.

Take Lapis: She initially doesn't care for the earth and is ignorant to the consequences of her actions regarding it--you know, what with borrowing the ocean and all. But as Steven points out, she never really gave the Earth a chance, and after she does... "No, I just really like that show." Something she likes. She's not as in touch with her artistic side as Peridot is, but befriending Peridot and presumably studying the Earth with her really seems to be good for Lappy.

Even the Crystal Gems, who already liked the Earth and humans, become somewhat nicer and more respectful of humans after Steven comes along and they start interacting with humans and human stuff on a more regular basis.

I'm just wondering if something similar happened to the Famathyst, either while on Earth or while caring for the Zoomans.

Unrelated: So, back in Rising Tides/Clashing Skies or whatever it was called, Ranolda asks if the Hand wasn't meant to abduct humans for somekind of Human Zoo. Thoughts?

[Manga Shoggoth]

Spoiler

Show

Unrelated: So, back in Rising Tides/Clashing Skies or whatever it was called, Ranolda asks if the Hand wasn't meant to abduct humans for somekind of Human Zoo. Thoughts?

Spoiler

Show

Alas, I suspect that Ronaldo fires so many bullets in all directions that one or two of them are bound to hit something. It's just so amusing when he gets something nearly right.

[Draconi Redfir]

Spoiler

Show

So far no Sneople... Yet...

[Snowbluff]

Spoiler: I question your objectivity, ma'am!

Show

YD is killing the empire.

Era is marked by limited resources.

But YD causes wars and comes up with reasons after the fact to justify them, in order to distract herself from her emotional problems.

Spoiler: Lapis

Show

Her mental projection powers would be good for showing terraforming options. However, judging by the final plan for the earth colony, water based terraforming would not be what you need. Maybe there are earthbending lapis? :P

Spoiler: Emotional effects of earth

Show

MOre likely we're underestimating the personal self actualization of gems in their natural habitats creating emotional growth. However, I do think Earth is why Peridot has telekinesis. She's a leech, much like Steven is when he forms Stevonnie.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Spoiler: Emotional effects of earth

Show

However, I do think Earth is why Peridot has telekinesis. She's a leech, much like Steven is when he forms Stevonnie.

Where do you get the idea that Stevonnie is a leech (or is leeching, at any rate)?

[LaZodiac]

Where do you get the idea that Stevonnie is a leech (or is leeching, at any rate)?

They don't like Stevonnie

[Draconi Redfir]

Spoiler: Emotional effects of earth

Show

I do think Earth is why Peridot has telekinesis. She's a leech, much like Steven is when he forms Stevonnie.

i really, really doubt this personally.



So apparently there's a few people who are upset with Blue Dimond's face reve3al out there, they thought she'd look more Desi (indian) like as her mural and depiction in "the awnser" shows her with a hooked nose but her face reveal in the recent stevenbomb doesn't give her that at all. Thoughts?

Don't think it's a big deal at all personally, though she does look a lot different then her mural. Just looking to make conversation.

[LaZodiac]

i really, really doubt this personally.

So apparently there's a few people who are upset with Blue Dimond's face reve3al out there, they thought she'd look more Desi (indian) like as her mural and depiction in "the awnser" shows her with a hooked nose but her face reveal in the recent stevenbomb doesn't give her that at all. Thoughts?

Don't think it's a big deal at all personally, though she does look a lot different then her mural. Just looking to make conversation.

Implying that all people from that region of the world have super angular noses (them, not you). I think she looks fine. I can get why people are sad, but also I think it's really damn cool that we got her reveal like this.

[John Cribati]

The most illogical bit of Discourse^TM I've seen so far is that

Spoiler

Show

Blue Diamond grieving for Pink Diamond is apparently an example of the homophobe actually being gay.

No, I'm not entirely sure how that works, either.

[Rater202]

The most illogical bit of Discourse^TM I've seen so far is that

Spoiler

Show

Blue Diamond grieving for Pink Diamond is apparently an example of the homophobe actually being gay.

No, I'm not entirely sure how that works, either.

Spoiler

Show

Ruby/Sapphire/Garnet=Obvious and blatant stand in for a lesbian couple.

In some minds, Blue Diamond not approving of crossgem fusion, rather than being upset at the status quo being gone against or against the mingling of the classes=Homophobe. I honestly see it more as classism than homophobia, but I guess if you squint.

Not sure where the=actually being Gay part comes in though.

I mean, do the terms "gay," or "straight" or "bi" or "pan" really apply to a species that has one gender identity, no biological sex, and doesn't reproduce in traditional manner?

[twas_Brillig]

The most illogical bit of Discourse^TM I've seen so far is that

Spoiler

Show

Blue Diamond grieving for Pink Diamond is apparently an example of the homophobe actually being gay.

No, I'm not entirely sure how that works, either.

Spoiler

Show

I guess the reasoning is something like:

How dare you fuse with a member of my court?
...
You will be broken for this!

1) Garnet first fused in front of Blue Diamond, who ordered Ruby shattered in response.
1a) Since fusion is mostly v. gay in the context of the show (because the gems are all coded female, and most fusion is between gems), then it follows that BD's anti-fusion sentiment is homophobia. (Or as close to that discussion as you can get in a kid's cartoon.)
1b) Note that this is actually a pretty weird quote! BD isn't emphasizing surprise like the other gems in the scene, if anything you can read this as disgust at Ruby's low standing rather than about the fusion itself.
1c) That said, Garnet is a healthy, lesbian relationship, and has been used as a stand-in for issues around them before (see: Jamie being an oblivious jerk). It's not inconceivable that they were trying to draw a straight line for kids here.

2) Since fusion is a stand-in for relationships and romance between gems, maybe they're assuming BD and YD loving PD = BD and YD want to fuse with PD. This seems like a leap to me, since while there is a focus among the Crystal Gems that fusion is a pure expression of trust and good things, Garnet is the only gem that stays fused all the time, they clearly all loved Steven before learning they could fuse with him, and so on.

To me, it's more likely gems (at least the kinds of gems likely to rebel) aren't given the context or opportunity for positive, social relationships, and have to find their own lenses to define them. Garnet stumbled into a good thing, so she examines everything as related to fusion. But Pearl and Rose obviously had some kind of relationship before they even knew different kinds of gem could fuse!

Since Diamonds are in charge, it's clear they have a lot more autonomy and opportunity to self-define. They aren't purpose-made foot soldiers, they have whims and pet projects like the human zoo. While I think there's an interesting villain ship between BD and PD, I don't think this is a clear-cut case of a giant, blue, closeted homophobe.

[Draconi Redfir]

Spoiler

Show

I mean, do the terms "gay," or "straight" or "bi" or "pan" really apply to a species that has one gender identity, no biological sex, and doesn't reproduce in traditional manner?

considering the species doesn't really have sex at all either... i rather doubt it.

And no, fusion doesn't count.

[Lord Raziere]

Spoiler

Show

Hm....

Nah, Blue Diamond isn't gay for Pink or Yellow Diamond. thats silly, the people who say that are silly.

I view the diamonds as being like a bunch of siblings. Manipulative, all-controlling siblings. Yellow Diamond to me, didn't actually care about Blue Diamond's problem. She just pretended to so as to make her follow along with what she wanted to do, which is to put this whole thing behind them and get rid of all traces of Pink Diamond along with Earth because it was clearly a bad venture that didn't pan out and really isn't worth spending so much thought over from YD's point of view because its been 5000 years its time to move on.

Pink Diamond, seems to a sibling that died, so the other Diamonds feel sad for their sister dying. To me, the Diamonds don't NEED to fuse. They're already powerful and big as is, so why would they? There is no reason to, since everyone else handles tasks for them and there are no foes powerful enough to make them go to that extreme- if the Crystal Gems fused into Alexandrite, I could see them taking on ONE of the Diamonds. I mean, its clear that Homeworld to some extent values individual strength over the strength of a whole- they value the Diamonds over Quartzes and Quartzes over many smaller Gems. Jasper and others dismiss fusion as a cheap tactic, and the only ones aside from the Crystal Gems who use it regularly are the Rubies to become a big dumb weapon.

Therefore why would a Diamond resort to something considered so low class? To them, fusion isn't even a relationship. Its just a tool to win a fight. And Diamonds probably don't need fusion to do that. They're bigger, more powerful and have the entirety of Gem society at their command, if they ever try to fuse with each other, it'll be as an incredibly desperate tactic to defeat a threat when all else has failed. They're like Freeza, only with fusions instead of super forms.

Just like how the song that Yellow Diamond sang was just a tool to get Blue Diamond to do what she wanted. Their relationships are professional over personal. Whats notable is White Diamond's absence in all this. She is clearly a Diamond that still exists, but while Yellow Diamond cared enough to manipulate Blue Diamond's feelings, White Diamond....well if her Gem being on her head is any indication, she is a very logical and thinking kind of person. Actual logic, not Yellow's spite. If Pink Diamond is the one who cared the most about Earth, then White Diamond seems to be the one who cares the least- why would she?

In the grand scheme of things from what is probably White Diamond's point of view, Earth is a single planet far away from Homeworld that she doesn't seem of any use to solving what she probably considers the real problem of Gem Society- the resource shortage that Peridot was talking about. White Diamond is the one who controls the most planets and therefore would be most concerned about getting more resources for the Gems to be made and colonies to be set up. If Blue dealt with Pink's death by getting sad and grieving, Yellow through anger and revenge, then White probably dealt with it by locking her emotions tight then throwing away the key. The Diamonds seem to be the ones unhealthily dealing with their loss in one way or another, so its not out of the question.

I'd wager White Diamond will be a threat simply because Earth to her is a small speck of planet that got a foolish Diamond killed and many resources wasted, so why care about a long-dead Diamond that allowed herself to die, and why bother feeling anything at all about it? All White Diamond has to do to be more of a threat than Yellow or Blue is to find out that only five or six Crystal Gems actually remain to oppose her and relaunch the invasion to strip mine the whole place as a pure practical measure to get more resources simply because every little bit counts. She probably considers Blue and Yellow fools for allowing it to affect them so much.

[Draconi Redfir]

Spoiler

Show

Therefore why would a Diamond resort to something considered so low class? To them, fusion isn't even a relationship. Its just a tool to win a fight.

Well to be fair, that's kind of true. Fusion doesn't NEED to be a relationship, and has been shown to be a tool for fighting or other tasks multiple times already. ( Malachite, big-ruby, possibly even Sugilite, Opal, and maybe Sardonyx to an extent) Really Garnet is the only one who sees fusion as more then just a tool, even Amythist and Pearl who sympasize with her have used fusion as more of a tool to win a fight then much else. Most likely fusion IS just a Tool. Garnet just reads too much into it.

there IS also a theory that the corruption song could have been caused by the dimonds fusing and gaining a collective power out of it. Could be true, might not be. Given the death of a sister dimond and the loss of a war though, i could see it being done as a desperate / emotional lashing out.

Do agree the dimonds are more like sisters to one annother then much else.


There is also yellow dimond's song, "what's the use in feeling blue" which could also be "what's the use in feeling, blue?" In which she's asking Blue dimond what the point of feeling anything at all is. So could be that yellow dimond is also aiming to go for a "no-feeling-at-all" approach, and is just having some trouble with her anger.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

So apparently there's a few people who are upset with Blue Dimond's face reve3al out there, they thought she'd look more Desi (indian) like as her mural and depiction in "the awnser" shows her with a hooked nose but her face reveal in the recent stevenbomb doesn't give her that at all. Thoughts?

For all we know this could point to her having regenerated at some point, depending on how much White Diamond ends up looking like her mural when we see her. It's great having an in-universe explanation for character redesigns.

There is also yellow dimond's song, "what's the use in feeling blue" which could also be "what's the use in feeling, blue?" In which she's asking Blue dimond what the point of feeling anything at all is. So could be that yellow dimond is also aiming to go for a "no-feeling-at-all" approach, and is just having some trouble with her anger.

I wonder if this is part of the "Earth changes you" issue. If YD was asking what the use of feelings in general was, it could very well be that part of Homeworld's clearly massive propaganda system is convincing everyone (or at least YD's gems) that the ideal gem is emotionless, cold and efficient, and driven to perfection in the field they were born for. Yellow even goes into that idea a bit in the song, pointing out the functions of the gems under Blue's command and then stating a Diamond's "purpose." Earth, isolation with other gems out of the Authority's direct supervision, and possibly watching the zoomans expose gems to another way of life just through observation and exposure if they're paying attention.

[Draconi Redfir]

... Random thought just popped into my head:

Imagine this hypothetical future.

As Steven grows older, he begins reserching how gems are created. What the injectors door, what they take, and what exactly Gems are made of. Potentually, he finds that a lot of what they need to be formed can exist in a human body.

a few expariments

some science

Babies are born within their human mother's womb, featuring gems and gem-powers all their own.

new hyman/gem hybrid species.

[Lizard Lord]

... Random thought just popped into my head:

Imagine this hypothetical future.

As Steven grows older, he begins reserching how gems are created. What the injectors door, what they take, and what exactly Gems are made of. Potentually, he finds that a lot of what they need to be formed can exist in a human body.

a few expariments

some science

Babies are born within their human mother's womb, featuring gems and gem-powers all their own.

new hyman/gem hybrid species.

...Connie maybe but Steven hasn't had much of an education. I wouldn't call him dumb by any means, but he is ignorant on many things that other children of his age have been taught in school. I can't really see him growing up into a scientist of any sorts.

[Draconi Redfir]

Well it's not reallya thing he'd be4 able to learn in school. Peridot would likely be his teacher in how gems are made and what they need.

Plus he's still Rose's kid, and Rose was likely some kinda scientist if the moss, beatals, lions, etc, are to be beleived to be her creations. So he might pick up where she left off.

plus this is like, when he's older, his 20's or so.

[Razade]

Didn't we have several episodes where Steven learned how Gems are really made?

[Draconi Redfir]

sort of? what he learned is really all we learned. injectors put something into the rock and then gems come out. no talk of what is put in, where it comes from, or what it absorbs to make a gem. too science-y for a kids show.

[Razade]

sort of? what he learned is really all we learned. injectors put something into the rock and then gems come out. no talk of what is put in, where it comes from, or what it absorbs to make a gem. too science-y for a kids show.

I don't think it's too sciency. It's just not important.