[BitPR²] OOCVII: Kidnapping aunts for fun & profit

[KnightDisciple]

If the Royal Guard primarily want to punish Koutaro to save face, that's kind of hard proof that he doesn't deserve punishment and that they themselves should be punished.

From my purely mortal human western raised opinion, if a high ranking Law Enforcement officer started summarily execution legally opointed law makers becuase he was pissed off about the state of the country and a truce that had been agreed to(as IIRC Wan Lin did cite that as part of the reason for what he did) and a lower ranked ALw Enforcement officer stopped him and brought him into custody, the murderer would be tried and executed and the lesser ranked officer would be commended.

Since that's for all intents and purposes what happened, that's what the just result would be.

Unfortunately, I don't exactly have a character present in the scene to say that so I can't really throw that in there.

I won't have a character nin the main game at all until stuff starts happening in Hueco Mundo again.

I've been rolling this around in my head trying to reconcile multiple things, and I do have a few thoughts.

1.) Going off of your example, the issue is that the lower-ranking officer didn't try to follow any procedures for "fellow officer is definitively off the ranch", like calling for support, focusing on containment, etc. Instead, he went Dirty Harry/Lethal Weapon on WLL. Which is super-American, but not necessarily universally regarded as ideal.
2.) The majority of these characters are coming from a different cultural standard of community/collective vs the individual, and being too obvious about which one we think is "better" is a bit narrow-visioned, when all is said and done.
3.) I am treating WLL less as "invaluable source of knowledge" and more as "critical component in a mechanism relating to the Soul King and ultimately the balance and fabric of reality". Now, this doesn't mean WLL can do whatever they want, but instead that killing WLL, or risking permanent incapacitation (which Koutarou did) is not something that should be tolerated.
4.) It doesn't seem unreasonable to say "look you stopped some pretty atrocious stuff but you went full cowboy-style, and we cannot let that precedent stand unchallenged". So what Masamune (and myself) are trying to do is find a way to convey "your intent was good but your method was flawed", and in a society of multi-century superpowered beings, three months of unpaid administrative leave is less than nothing. Some kind of more physical punishment is being presented both due to the fact that this is an ancient society run by ancient beings, and that such punishments seem more impactful to beings such as Shinigami.

[Dorizzit]

I have some more elaborate statements as well, but I’ll save those for the IC discussion when the Royal Guard speaks to Koutarou.

[Rater202]

I don't think point one stands as there wouldn't logically be a procedure for this scenario and when a man is actively (effectively) murdering people your priority should be stopping that, not calling your boss for permision to stop that.

And I'm not sure about making a secrety just to bring these points up

[Kuroimaken]

I've been rolling this around in my head trying to reconcile multiple things, and I do have a few thoughts.

1.) Going off of your example, the issue is that the lower-ranking officer didn't try to follow any procedures for "fellow officer is definitively off the ranch", like calling for support, focusing on containment, etc. Instead, he went Dirty Harry/Lethal Weapon on WLL. Which is super-American, but not necessarily universally regarded as ideal.
2.) The majority of these characters are coming from a different cultural standard of community/collective vs the individual, and being too obvious about which one we think is "better" is a bit narrow-visioned, when all is said and done.
3.) I am treating WLL less as "invaluable source of knowledge" and more as "critical component in a mechanism relating to the Soul King and ultimately the balance and fabric of reality". Now, this doesn't mean WLL can do whatever they want, but instead that killing WLL, or risking permanent incapacitation (which Koutarou did) is not something that should be tolerated.
4.) It doesn't seem unreasonable to say "look you stopped some pretty atrocious stuff but you went full cowboy-style, and we cannot let that precedent stand unchallenged". So what Masamune (and myself) are trying to do is find a way to convey "your intent was good but your method was flawed", and in a society of multi-century superpowered beings, three months of unpaid administrative leave is less than nothing. Some kind of more physical punishment is being presented both due to the fact that this is an ancient society run by ancient beings, and that such punishments seem more impactful to beings such as Shinigami.

1) Actually, Koutarou did... pretty much exactly try that. First thing he did was call WLL to his office and ask him to stand down. Technically not in his authority to do, but then, no one is really above the Royal Guard, not even the Royal Guard itself (the Soul King doesn't count, because the Soul King doesn't actually do anything). It wasn't until WLL went on a rampage that Koutarou started actually fighting him, and he took a LOT of hits on purpose in order to make sure that WLL was taken down with as little actual damage as possible.
2) No arguments there. Again, my earlier point about the nature of authority and its responsibility is notably modern in design, whereas Soul Society's is medieval at best. So it is no surprise we would find a clash of viewpoints.
3) Koutarou was never going to kill or maim WLL. For starters, WLL is not a Hollow or a traitor to Soul Society (and even the latter get trials, although with Central gone it is debatable who should be conducting said trials). He couldn't exactly pull his punches too much, either.
4) It's not unreasonable to take that stance. But then, one ought to ask if Koutarou even had much of a choice in the matter. I mean, calling on the Royal Guard resulted in WLL coming over in the first place. Imagine how much worse things could get if they asked for help holding the guy back and someone even worse came along. As Rater pointed out, his priority was to prevent further damage rather than ask for someone else to stop him. Koutarou figured it was easier to ask forgiveness rather than permission, it just turns out there's a lot more forgiveness he needs to earn than he initially thought.

[Frozen_Feet]

@Rater202: your evaluation is not wrong, but it overlooks one thing: what Wan Li Lin's position in the celestial hierarchy is.

They are the Royal Assassin. That is, their sole task is to murder people based on the King's command.

So who are the Central 46, then? They are the parliament who substitute Royalty for everyday affairs. They rule with a heavenly mandate granted by the King.

So what happens if the King decides the Central 46 has screwed up and revokes their mandate? The Royal Assassin is the one person who can legally murder them. (As opposed to executing them after trial, which is job for the Royal Executioner. ) Ordinarily, the Royal Assassin only acts for the King, out of the King's opinions. Not on their own. So if the Royal Assassin says a truce is unwanted, that should be a direct message that the King, the lynchpin of existence, finds the truce unwanted.

What makes this murky is that no-one actually seems to know what the King wants and it is questionable if the King is a personal entity. Kisaragi Saruhiko, a member of the Royal Guard, outright said it's not. And if you believe the guy in the Gaiden thread, the King is mutilated, sealed and actively prevented from having a part in any of this. Wan Li Lin's statement that Izanagi-no-Mikoto is on the throne makes those statements dubious, yet is still not an outright contradiction, so all three could be true simultaneously ... but however the case is, it's not widely known.

---

Shortly: if Wan Li Lin genuinely acted on their own, Rater202's view is most valid. If it can't be determined if they did, KD's view is most valid. If Wan Li Lin did act on a direct order from the King, then everyone's in deep doo-doo in more than one way

[Frozen_Feet]

Note: if you go wayyyyyy back and reread Razade's original posts with Shen Yi, you will find out that he did, in fact, have Ouken, though its power was already failing him. This might have been my original reason to ask permission to use that character. I say "might have been", because I forgot about that myself untill lately.

[KnightDisciple]

I'm going to be on a short vacation this weekend, and part of that means being unplugged. I won't really be around much if at all tomorrow, not at all Saturday, and not much if at all Sunday.

[Kuroimaken]

See ya Monday!

[Rater202]

I'm starting to think that I have a vague idea of what's going on in the Gaiden Thread.

Also, if I made a post in Spirit World, would anyone be willing to play some throwaway NPCs? Like a gate guard in Las Noches or something?

[Kuroimaken]

Sure, why not.

DORIZZIT YOU'RE UP XD

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, and Frozen, WLL is free to assume whatever the heck he wants about the actual damage to Koutarou, and he's welcome to gasp in disbelief when he finds out he's wrong. If you're talking damage to reputation, too.

[Frozen_Feet]

I believe a point was made about Wan potentially speaning nothing but rubbish.

[Kuroimaken]

Let's make it a contest, then.

[Frozen_Feet]

I'm not sure that'll lead to anything interesting. I don't really have more story to tell with Wan Li Lin and don't really enjoy playing them.

@Rater202: I don't have any neat ideas for another set of minor NPCs. As for the Gaiden thread, if you feel you had an epiphany, feel free to share.

[Rater202]

I'm still piecing things together, but after having Sarah mention seeing another Fullbringer using the book of Japanse characters I went back to where Sarah was reading those books.

There were some things about Alternate Realities and a bit about Ontological Inertia that mentioned two contrasting theories on the Soul King--One that he's the creator of all and one that he and all spirits are basically just stories brought to life by the souls of Dead Humans.

Considering what Mikeal said in the Gaiden Thread, in particular about killing the Soul King to see if the world would remain...

I'm not 100%, but I'm getting some ideas.

As for characters... I meant mostly just "unnamed NPCs".

I don't nessesarily want anything to happen, but I do want to establish that Sarah and Svetlana are still present in case anything starts happening in Hueco Mundo again.

And I just noticed that I used the wrong font for Sarah in my last post in the Gaiden Thread. Fixed.

[Kuroimaken]

I'm not sure that'll lead to anything interesting. I don't really have more story to tell with Wan Li Lin and don't really enjoy playing them.

@Rater202: I don't have any neat ideas for another set of minor NPCs. As for the Gaiden thread, if you feel you had an epiphany, feel free to share.

Then at least give us some damn clues to go with that conspiracy theory, cuz I'm not even sure that Rin and Masamune got anything to contribute on that front.

Also Rater, the Gaiden thread is technically out of continuity entirely.

[Rater202]

Also Rater, the Gaiden thread is technically out of continuity entirely.

I'm not sure what exactly you're referring to here.

If it's the Spirit World post, the comment that this is after Sarah and Svetlana were taken is more to illustrate things timeline wise--the pair in the Gaisen Thread have not taken the trip into the desert that the two in canon just got back from.

If t's about theorizing... Well, the Book was in a post by Frozen.

I am aware that they're separate continuities.

[Frozen_Feet]

Then at least give us some damn clues to go with that conspiracy theory, cuz I'm not even sure that Rin and Masamune got anything to contribute on that front.

I don't really have any more clues. Rin's and Masamune's contribution is up to Dorizzit and KD.

[Kuroimaken]

I'm not sure what exactly you're referring to here.

If it's the Spirit World post, the comment that this is after Sarah and Svetlana were taken is more to illustrate things timeline wise--the pair in the Gaisen Thread have not taken the trip into the desert that the two in canon just got back from.

If t's about theorizing... Well, the Book was in a post by Frozen.

I am aware that they're separate continuities.

Was mostly just checking. Technically, the Gaiden episode doesn't really HAVE a timeline it fits into.

[Rater202]

Though speaking of the Gaien Thread, I think it's waiting on you.

[Kuroimaken]

"Is the new Commander of the Gotei a threat, an asset, or something else?"

"Reply hazy, try again later."

[Kuroimaken]

If anyone's wondering why Kusuma is silent, it's because I completely forgot which color speech he was supposed to use, and he also said very very little since the Royal Guard made an appearance.

[KnightDisciple]

FYI I will be largely unavailable for posting this week, especially in-character. I should be back to mostly-normal availability next weekend.

[Kuroimaken]

Catch ya later, man.

[Dorizzit]

Waiting on you in the spirit world, Kuroimaken.

[Kuroimaken]

Noted, and replied.

[Rater202]

*Pokes Kuro*

Holding up the Gaiden Thread.

[Kuroimaken]

Noted, I'd missed your reply. Feel free to poke me earlier next time

[Rater202]

A storm knocked out the Internet, access is going to be intermittent for the next couple of days.

[Frozen_Feet]

I'm waiting to see where the discussion between Svetlana and Koutarou goes before I have anything to add to the Gaiden thread.

Senshi's story is at a point where it will just move under its own weight in between other posts.

I have nothing to add with Wan Li Lin.

In other respects, I'm just waiting for the focus to shift back to Naito, Chuck, Shinji etc. so things can move ahead in the Mortal World thread.

[Kuroimaken]

I'm sure we could make Torahiko squirm a little more if we wanted to.