Unlimited Blade Works: The Guide to the Ultimate Paladin/Sorcerer Multiclass

[Waterdeep Merch]

I just joined a game and found myself super attached to some o of the builds listed here for my character concept. A Draconic Sorcerer/Paladin fits better than just about any other class combination.

However, I just discovered that my DM is not allowing feats. Is there any way to pull off a Sorcadin without feat access?

I don’t anything to be super optimized, I just want to be able to cast spells on the front line without too much difficulty.

Might need to go with a two-hander to get around not getting War Caster. Be careful about concentration spells, since a lack of that and Resilient: Constitution will severely impede your ability to keep them around. If you decide to use one, be extra wary of damage/get ready to throw up shield at a moment's notice, and only twin concentration buffs when you feel confident that you won't be knocked around. The cost for twinning haste is already exorbitant, it would suck to lose all those resources in a single turn.

[Captain Panda]

It might not be a popular answer, but if a DM isn't allowing feats I'd find someone else to DM.

[Finlam]

I believe you can also somewhat get around the need for the Warcaster by

1) Dropping your weapon (no, srsly)
2) Using your free object interaction to pick it up after you've cast the spell

You may be Trogdor the All-Thumbs sorcadin, but damn it if your DM will limit you!

[Gignere]

No feats, I would start paladin go 6 levels minimum before going sorcerer. Use a two hander to avoid the cast with free hand issue. Avoid concentration spells and rely more on smiting with spell slots.

[eryrwyn]

I'm currently playing in a campaign where we've just hit 3rd level. We're just about to fight in a huge fight (5 players plus 4 npcs against 16 goons and a boss assassin) so we will not be getting any spell slots for that fight... which is why I'm left wondering in what class I should take a level. I'm a Half-Drow Rogue 1/Paladin 1 (Dex 16, Cha 17) aiming for Shadow Sorcerer. I definitely want to get up to Paladin 3 for my Oath of Treachery Channel Divinity powers, possibly Paladin 6 for the aura. As for Sorcerer, I wanted to take Favored Soul but a Shadow Sorcerer can easily get himself an advantage -- which is going to be super effective considering I intend to take Elven Accuracy feat as soon as I can.

Another option I was considering, if I did not choose Shadow Sorcerer, was a Hexblade (for Devil's Sight and the 19-20 critical) and then going into Favored Soul for the roleplaying value.

Any idea what class I should take now? Paladin 2 is very solid but, unfortunately, I won't have access to any Smites for the incoming fight due to no spells/no rest. Sorcerer, on the other hand, while also not giving me any spells, could give me access to the melee cantrips for some additional damage/being able to attack more than one combatant (and considering there are lots of them there, it might make a difference) since they're at-will and don't need a rest to recover them in any way.

[LexTalionis]

I'm currently playing in a campaign where we've just hit 3rd level. We're just about to fight in a huge fight (5 players plus 4 npcs against 16 goons and a boss assassin) so we will not be getting any spell slots for that fight... which is why I'm left wondering in what class I should take a level. I'm a Half-Drow Rogue 1/Paladin 1 (Dex 16, Cha 17) aiming for Shadow Sorcerer. I definitely want to get up to Paladin 3 for my Oath of Treachery Channel Divinity powers, possibly Paladin 6 for the aura. As for Sorcerer, I wanted to take Favored Soul but a Shadow Sorcerer can easily get himself an advantage -- which is going to be super effective considering I intend to take Elven Accuracy feat as soon as I can.

Another option I was considering, if I did not choose Shadow Sorcerer, was a Hexblade (for Devil's Sight and the 19-20 critical) and then going into Favored Soul for the roleplaying value.

Any idea what class I should take now? Paladin 2 is very solid but, unfortunately, I won't have access to any Smites for the incoming fight due to no spells/no rest. Sorcerer, on the other hand, while also not giving me any spells, could give me access to the melee cantrips for some additional damage/being able to attack more than one combatant (and considering there are lots of them there, it might make a difference) since they're at-will and don't need a rest to recover them in any way.

Not quite sure about the hexblade detour, I asked that question myself earlier on this thread and got no response.

I will say that having at least one level in Sorcerer is always very good, because you'll want your all important melee cantrips (Green Flame Blade and Booming Blade), especially since your Rogue1 means you've delayed extra-attack (GFB and BB gain more damage dice at Character Level 5, Not class level). Also, those crucial level 1 panic button spells, like Shield or Thunderwave. In a mass combat situation, those small but numerous attacks can stack up, having +5 AC for a round can literally be a life saver.

The flip-side for Pal2 depends on what type of weapon you're using and what style you might pick.

Is there any particular reason why you went Rogue1?

[eryrwyn]

Not quite sure about the hexblade detour, I asked that question myself earlier on this thread and got no response.

I will say that having at least one level in Sorcerer is always very good, because you'll want your all important melee cantrips (Green Flame Blade and Booming Blade), especially since your Rogue1 means you've delayed extra-attack (GFB and BB gain more damage dice at Character Level 5, Not class level). Also, those crucial level 1 panic button spells, like Shield or Thunderwave. In a mass combat situation, those small but numerous attacks can stack up, having +5 AC for a round can literally be a life saver.

The flip-side for Pal2 depends on what type of weapon you're using and what style you might pick.

Is there any particular reason why you went Rogue1?

Thanks for the reply! The decision to go Rogue was roleplaying-based only. My character is a paladin of a god of thieves and choosing one level of a Rogue was very thematic and, while I know it was not the best mechanically, it still gave me expertise, 1 die of sneak attack and, most importantly, (don't laugh) thieves' cant which, in my mind, a(n) (un)holy knight of a god of thieves should know. I'm still debating whether to go any further in Rogue: if I did, I see two possible stop points: either 3 for Archetype (probably Swashbuckler for +CHA to initiative or possibly... Assassin?) and 2d6 sneak attack OR 5 for Uncanny Dodge (1/2 damage as a reaction? wow! talk about a tank! although it will compete for reactions with Shield... I could always try Shield if hit with an attack, and use Uncanny Dodge for spells etc.) and 3d6 sneak attack. But, going this far into Rogue means losing a lot of the Sorcadin potential so I am very reluctant to do that.

I'm a Half-Drow Dex-based with a Rapier and a Shield currently, probably going for the Defence fighting style because I'm less worried about damage than my own survival. I was thinking about Dueling but +2 damage per attack doesn't seem worth it to me. Or am I mistaken here?

My stats are Str 10, Dex 16, Con 15, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 16.

I'll probably take the second level in Paladin and then go for a level of Sorcerer (cantrips + Shield), and then go back to Paladin till level 4 [for Elven Accuracy] or 5 [Extra Attack] or even 6 [Aura of Protection], I think, if I survive the big incoming fight, that is. OR, if I do go with a Hexblade, swap Sorcerer for Hexblade then, for the curse [seems like a great synergy between the increased chance of a critical and Elven Accuracy super-advantage] since it also gives me the cantrips and Shield spell. I might then stick for another level for Devil's Sight or two for Darkness (although I'll have the 1/day Darkness from Drow Magic at level 5 anyway).

[Innocent_bystan]

Any idea what class I should take now? Paladin 2 is very solid but, unfortunately, I won't have access to any Smites for the incoming fight due to no spells/no rest. Sorcerer, on the other hand, while also not giving me any spells.

Is this a house rule? Why wouldn't you get access to those spells on level up? Sorcerers don't need to prepare their spells, so that isn't an issue. Paladins do, but have a few spells always prepared and should get the spell slots to smite with.

More to the point. I'd go for Paladin. You get more hit points, a fighting style and 5hp of healing through Lay on Hands. Without the spells, Sorcerer isn't that attractive.

[LexTalionis]

Thanks for the reply! The decision to go Rogue was roleplaying-based only. My character is a paladin of a god of thieves and choosing one level of a Rogue was very thematic and, while I know it was not the best mechanically, it still gave me expertise, 1 die of sneak attack and, most importantly, (don't laugh) thieves' cant which, in my mind, a(n) (un)holy knight of a god of thieves should know. I'm still debating whether to go any further in Rogue: if I did, I see two possible stop points: either 3 for Archetype (probably Swashbuckler for +CHA to initiative or possibly... Assassin?) and 2d6 sneak attack OR 5 for Uncanny Dodge (1/2 damage as a reaction? wow! talk about a tank! although it will compete for reactions with Shield... I could always try Shield if hit with an attack, and use Uncanny Dodge for spells etc.) and 3d6 sneak attack. But, going this far into Rogue means losing a lot of the Sorcadin potential so I am very reluctant to do that.

I'm a Half-Drow Dex-based with a Rapier and a Shield currently, probably going for the Defence fighting style because I'm less worried about damage than my own survival. I was thinking about Dueling but +2 damage per attack doesn't seem worth it to me. Or am I mistaken here?

My stats are Str 10, Dex 16, Con 15, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 16.

I'll probably take the second level in Paladin and then go for a level of Sorcerer (cantrips + Shield), and then go back to Paladin till level 4 [for Elven Accuracy] or 5 [Extra Attack] or even 6 [Aura of Protection], I think, if I survive the big incoming fight, that is. OR, if I do go with a Hexblade, swap Sorcerer for Hexblade then, for the curse [seems like a great synergy between the increased chance of a critical and Elven Accuracy super-advantage] since it also gives me the cantrips and Shield spell. I might then stick for another level for Devil's Sight or two for Darkness (although I'll have the 1/day Darkness from Drow Magic at level 5 anyway).

No problem happy to help. I agree with the above poster. Without fresh slots, the Pal2 fighting style will probably matter more.

My worry is that based on your current stats, you're spreading yourself rather thin. Right now you're a Dex based Rogue/Pal multi-class, am I right in assuming your DM allowed you to bypass the Str 13 pre-requisite for multi-classing into Paladin?

Although the Elven Accuracy + Sneak Attack and/or Hexblade's curse is well thought out, Elven Accuracy does nothing for your stat totals. I'd actually recommend spending the ASI on +2 to CHA to bring it up to 18 CHA in preparation for the Pal6 Aura since it's based on CHA mod. That'd be a +1 to all saves for yourself and all party members within 10 feet. Might be more high impact.

As for rogue3, Assassinate is amazing, especially if it procs of your smites (crit all your smite dice). But remember Assassinate is highly dependant on DM fiat, in the sense that you have to surprise the enemy. That also depends on your party composition and whether they have the stealth necessary not to blow your cover.

[ceban]

Hey, first time poster, long time lurker.

I was wondering why Scorching Ray is rated so low. For pure single target burst damage, a upcast quickened Scorching Ray followed by one or two attacks with smite should be pretty good, right?

Scorching Ray seems to scale really well with higher slots at 2d6/lvl compared to 1d6 or 1d8 that most spells have. At any level, it seems to do the same or more damage compared to other spells versus single targets. If DM rules +CHA/Ray, then the damage is insanely better.

If hitting the target is the problem, perhaps you could save it for when you have advantage, like they are affected by Hold Person, or if you went Vengeance and use Vow of Enmity.

[apepi]

Okay guys I am going to go a little off rails here so I apologize, but what are you guys thoughts on Oath of Redemption with Bladesinger(with not dipping into Sorc at all)? You can get up 26 ac with are able to hit +5 Dex and Int, but you still need +13 in Cha and Str so it is very mad.

So bad things I can see with this is you loss on on Sorc points/meta magic, your origin/features, but you gain with Bladesong: AC, Increase to Con saves, +10 walking speed and Advantage on Dex saves and then gain more spells and are able to learn more spells, able to ritual cast(even spells you don't have prepared), can regain some spells on a short rest and song of victory gives you more damage and has a larger spell list than Sorcs, thoughts?

[Ursus the Grim]

Hey, first time poster, long time lurker.

I was wondering why Scorching Ray is rated so low. For pure single target burst damage, a upcast quickened Scorching Ray followed by one or two attacks with smite should be pretty good, right?

Scorching Ray seems to scale really well with higher slots at 2d6/lvl compared to 1d6 or 1d8 that most spells have. At any level, it seems to do the same or more damage compared to other spells versus single targets. If DM rules +CHA/Ray, then the damage is insanely better.

If hitting the target is the problem, perhaps you could save it for when you have advantage, like they are affected by Hold Person, or if you went Vengeance and use Vow of Enmity.

There's a few reasons for this.

1. You can't smite off of Scorching Ray. You're better off using Booming Blade + Smite. For instance, at level 5, BB deals 2d6+1d8+1d8 damage for an average of 18 damage before Smite. Using three levels of spells adds 4d8 damage for a total of 6d8+2d6 or 34 damage on average. A level 3 scorching Ray deals 8d6+4 fire damage for 32 damage on average. The damage is slightly better using the same resources.

2. Booming Blade uses your melee attack modifier, which is usually higher than spell attack modifier for the average Sorcadin.

3. If you popped Hold Person or Vow of Enmity, you can't cast Scorching Ray on the same turn.

4. Scorching ray deals fire damage, the single most resisted damage type.

[LexTalionis]

Hey, first time poster, long time lurker.

I was wondering why Scorching Ray is rated so low. For pure single target burst damage, a upcast quickened Scorching Ray followed by one or two attacks with smite should be pretty good, right?

Scorching Ray seems to scale really well with higher slots at 2d6/lvl compared to 1d6 or 1d8 that most spells have. At any level, it seems to do the same or more damage compared to other spells versus single targets. If DM rules +CHA/Ray, then the damage is insanely better.

If hitting the target is the problem, perhaps you could save it for when you have advantage, like they are affected by Hold Person, or if you went Vengeance and use Vow of Enmity.

In addition to Ursus' excellent analysis I should also add that one of the primary draws of Smite is that you can choose to apply the smite damage after you've scored a hit, or even a critical.

It's also easier to boost the accuracy of the initial melee hit via +1/2/3 weapons, and advantage via tripping enemies prone, whereas increasing your spell-attack after the level cap of 20 is difficult.

That said. I'm actually currently playing a Pal2/Sorc8 Sorcadin built exclusively around the Scorching Ray + Hex combo, I've taken the close-quarters shooter style to increase SAB, while my team-mates set up artificial crits using Hold Person. When everything goes smoothly, the damage is quite magnificent.

[Chugger]

Okay guys I am going to go a little off rails here so I apologize, but what are you guys thoughts on Oath of Redemption with Bladesinger(with not dipping into Sorc at all)? You can get up 26 ac with are able to hit +5 Dex and Int, but you still need +13 in Cha and Str so it is very mad.

So bad things I can see with this is you loss on on Sorc points/meta magic, your origin/features, but you gain with Bladesong: AC, Increase to Con saves, +10 walking speed and Advantage on Dex saves and then gain more spells and are able to learn more spells, able to ritual cast(even spells you don't have prepared), can regain some spells on a short rest and song of victory gives you more damage and has a larger spell list than Sorcs, thoughts?

Hey, it's okay to consider this - it's close enough. Are you talking ac 26 with Shield spell or without? A regular old sorcadin can get plate once enough gold drops in - that's ac 20, ac 21 with FS defense. And then with shield that is ac 26. So I'm not sure the build you're talking about has an ac advantage - but I guess could keep up.

So the advantages would be a lot more spells to pick from, ritual casting, and the other bladesong advantages, but you lose meta magic and are subject to even more madness.

I guess it depends on whether or not those wiz spells are worth it to you. Also bladesong is twice between short rests? What do you do if you can't bladesong - cast?

Headband of Intellect would help with the madness (but limit you to int 19). I was already thinking gauntlets of ogre power would help a ton w/ sorcadin madness, if you knew you could get a pair. These drop in AL and can be found or traded for, if you play AL.

Have you tried this build?

[apepi]

Hey, it's okay to consider this - it's close enough. Are you talking ac 26 with Shield spell or without? A regular old sorcadin can get plate once enough gold drops in - that's ac 20, ac 21 with FS defense. And then with shield that is ac 26. So I'm not sure the build you're talking about has an ac advantage - but I guess could keep up.

So the advantages would be a lot more spells to pick from, ritual casting, and the other bladesong advantages, but you lose meta magic and are subject to even more madness.

I guess it depends on whether or not those wiz spells are worth it to you. Also bladesong is twice between short rests? What do you do if you can't bladesong - cast?

Headband of Intellect would help with the madness (but limit you to int 19). I was already thinking gauntlets of ogre power would help a ton w/ sorcadin madness, if you knew you could get a pair. These drop in AL and can be found or traded for, if you play AL.

Have you tried this build?

Thanks. I haven't tried it, but I am playing a Bladesinger(I don't really have the stats to multiclass into paladin) but I figure that it could be a good alternative to Paladin/Sorc. 26 without it. Armor of Peace(Redemption Paladin Oath) gives you 16+Dex Mod AC, so if you hit 20 Dex you can hit up to 21 AC. Then Bladesong gives you AC +Int Mod, so it can give you a +5 AC, so 26AC altogether. Then with shield you can hit up to 31AC.

Bladesong is 2 per short rest, but generally for me no fight last 10 rounds, and we have a short rest after two fights so that isn't a problem for me. You can cast the same things as you normally could, it doesn't prevent you from changing how you play.

Gauntlets of Ogre Power would be somewhat useless as with Bladesong you would be using a Rapier most likely unless you want to go very mad. But because of that you not even necessarily even need War Caster if you think about it. I mean, casting Somatic competent isn't useful and advantage on con checks yes would be nice but you get +your Int Mod with Bladesong to your Con saves. But casting a spell as an Opportunity Attack could be nice. So not picking up War Caster at the start could be useful since it is kind of MAD.

Though Wizards could have easily changed Redemption oath from what it was in Unearthed Arcana, but I think this build can be very interesting.

[Immortem]

I have a 6th level tiefling paladin. We are using standard array. My DM allows us to use UA material, and allowed us to make changes to our characters prior to level 6. So I took the Zariel subrace (+2 Cha, +1 Str and a free searing smite and branding smite per day). With my 4th level feat I took Reselient in Con. So my current stats are Str 16, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 16. Just before 6 I changed over to Oath of Crown because I am the tank of the group (other members are tabaxi tranquility monk, goblin alchemist, and human swashbuckler).

I was considering multiclassing into Sorcerer to add a bit more flavor to my character. I happened on this guide, and I’ve read my way through it and most of the replies. I was wondering if being a Sorcadin would be a good idea given my stats and party make up. Also, if I did go Sorcadin should I wait until level 8 to switch so that I get as many ASIs as possible or just switch at my next level? Lastly, if I go with Sorcadin, what would be a good progression of ASIs and/or feats?

Thanks in advance for the advice!

[ceban]

There's a few reasons for this.

1. You can't smite off of Scorching Ray. You're better off using Booming Blade + Smite. For instance, at level 5, BB deals 2d6+1d8+1d8 damage for an average of 18 damage before Smite. Using three levels of spells adds 4d8 damage for a total of 6d8+2d6 or 34 damage on average. A level 3 scorching Ray deals 8d6+4 fire damage for 32 damage on average. The damage is slightly better using the same resources.

2. Booming Blade uses your melee attack modifier, which is usually higher than spell attack modifier for the average Sorcadin.

3. If you popped Hold Person or Vow of Enmity, you can't cast Scorching Ray on the same turn.

4. Scorching ray deals fire damage, the single most resisted damage type.

Oh ok, I think I understand now. I actually don't have access to SCAG, so I was a bit uncertain about the mechanics of BB and GFB. I didn't realize you could smite off them.

Thanks!

[chikiko]

Nova damage.

One thing i'm surprised you didn't bring up here is the stackability of Smite with BB/GFB. you wouldn't get to extra attack with it, but you would could add an amazing deal of damage with a single attack. more over you could twin cast a BB to attack a second character and add the smites on top of them. That will burn a lot of resources but thats what nova damage is all about. although it seems you do adress this later in the guide as that seems to be what the post above this one is about.

[Zene]

So, with XGE info leaking out, it seems that Divine Soul sorcerer will indeed be able to pick from both the sorc and cleric spell lists. This seems like it will make a crazy good combo for sorcadins ...I know I personally am drooling over an Ancients 9 / Divine Soul 5 / Fighter 2 that can cast Spirit Guardians and Plant Growth in the first round to selectively lock down all terrestrial enemies to 1/8 normal speed. (30’ movement divided by 8 means zero squares of movement)

But I’m sure there are better combos out there ... death ward will be a godsend, spiritual weapon will probably be a great for some builds (though it doesn’t help with novas)...what else?

Even without specific combos, just the extra-versatile spell list seems like it’ll make it the default sorc subclass choice for most sorcadins; since none of the other sorc subclasses seem to be all that beneficial (unless you go high enough to get dragon wings).

[sithlordnergal]

So, I'm actually going to try out a small build for this. Tell me what you guys think. My twist on it is that I am going:

Paladin: 6

Wizard: 2

Sorcerer: 12

It sadly requires you to be a standard human with Point Buy, but you end up with passable stats of:

Str: 14
Dex: 10
Con: 14
Int: 13
Wis: 12
Cha: 16

By going Divination with the two levels of Wizard you gain the Spell Book and Portent. I figure I can have spells that don't require the use of my casting Mod, such as Shield and Comprehend Languages, and use my Wizard cantrips for utility while my Sorcerer cantrips are used for attacks.

With this build I'll still end up with 6th level spells and a 9th level spell slot, so plenty of smiting and casting will be available, and the Portent will give me a bit more say in if an enemy fails a spell like Hold Monster. Provided I roll low of course. My Strength would be low for a while, since this build does require War Caster to really work and once I get to level 6 Paladin, it'll be until at least level 10 before I gain another ASI. I also am unsure which Paladin subclass would be best for the build, especially since I am making an AL legal game. So no Unearthed Arcana, no homebrew, and no Oathbreaker Paladin.

[Arkhios]

So, I'm actually going to try out a small build for this. Tell me what you guys think. My twist on it is that I am going:

Paladin: 6

Wizard: 2

Sorcerer: 12

It sadly requires you to be a standard human with Point Buy, but you end up with passable stats of:

Str: 14
Dex: 10
Con: 14
Int: 13
Wis: 12
Cha: 16

By going Divination with the two levels of Wizard you gain the Spell Book and Portent. I figure I can have spells that don't require the use of my casting Mod, such as Shield and Comprehend Languages, and use my Wizard cantrips for utility while my Sorcerer cantrips are used for attacks.

With this build I'll still end up with 6th level spells and a 9th level spell slot, so plenty of smiting and casting will be available, and the Portent will give me a bit more say in if an enemy fails a spell like Hold Monster. Provided I roll low of course. My Strength would be low for a while, since this build does require War Caster to really work and once I get to level 6 Paladin, it'll be until at least level 10 before I gain another ASI. I also am unsure which Paladin subclass would be best for the build, especially since I am making an AL legal game. So no Unearthed Arcana, no homebrew, and no Oathbreaker Paladin.

Imho, Wisdom would be just fine as 10, because as a paladin a) you have the saving throw proficiency and b) you get your charisma to all your saves eventually.
And, c) bounded accuracy.

If I were you, I'd consider this instead:
Str 15, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 16

As not a fan of odd ability scores, I'd be very much tempted in dividing one ASI among Str and Int, both because it would help both saves, but also because your melee relies on strength and you might actually become one of the smartest paladins out there (in general) and that's saying a lot!

[LexTalionis]

Was wondering what does everyone thinks about multi-classing warlock1 (or using magic initiate) to get the Warlock's Hex?

It seems to me that it doesn't pay off. Because the Sorcadin's concentration is almost invariably better occupied with a twinned haste, fly, hold person, greater invisibility, or polymorph.

Looking for opinions on this.

I have a 6th level tiefling paladin. We are using standard array. My DM allows us to use UA material, and allowed us to make changes to our characters prior to level 6. So I took the Zariel subrace (+2 Cha, +1 Str and a free searing smite and branding smite per day). With my 4th level feat I took Reselient in Con. So my current stats are Str 16, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 16. Just before 6 I changed over to Oath of Crown because I am the tank of the group (other members are tabaxi tranquility monk, goblin alchemist, and human swashbuckler).

I was considering multiclassing into Sorcerer to add a bit more flavor to my character. I happened on this guide, and I’ve read my way through it and most of the replies. I was wondering if being a Sorcadin would be a good idea given my stats and party make up. Also, if I did go Sorcadin should I wait until level 8 to switch so that I get as many ASIs as possible or just switch at my next level? Lastly, if I go with Sorcadin, what would be a good progression of ASIs and/or feats?

Thanks in advance for the advice!

Your stats are alright for a Sorcadin, I would recommend a little more in Cha, if nothing else than to boost the aura. Given you're the only pally in the team, there's no specific best timing for a switch beyond level 6, to get that aura.

In terms of feat progression, it depends heavily on what type of Sorcadin you wanna play. If it's Sword and Board (and your stats really seem to lock you into that role, because your strength is decent but not fantastic), you can switch at anytime.

If it's Great Weapon, you might need that 8th level feat for either GWM (mad damage), Sentinel (sticky tanking), or Pole-arm Master (area denial). The latter two work really well if your Pally fighting style is Tunnel Fighter.

What's the level cap for your campaign? You can slowly ease into the Sorc aspect if it goes past level 10, otherwise you're gonna feel like a bog standard Paladin (caveat: nuthin wrong with that) unless you quickly multi-class once you hit level 6.

[rbstr]

Was wondering what does everyone thinks about multi-classing warlock1 (or using magic initiate) to get the Warlock's Hex?

It seems to me that it doesn't pay off.

I agree, if you have other low-resource damaging options with your bonus action it's usually not great. Really it depends on a host of things: bonus actions and spells are and how many times you can actually hit something it effects.

[Chugger]

I too am looking forward to XgtE! Not sure if the new Pal classes work for sorcadin - maybe - but to get to pick cleric spells...wow. That could be pretty amazing.

Oh and I agree a 1 dip into lock to get hex is not all that good - and 1d6 means less and less as you level. Now a 2 dip into lock to get an amazing invo like seeing in magic darkness, say, if you wanted to go that way. Or for amazing role-playing or if it works in your game (i.e. you have a reasonable DM) unlimited illusions. There are others that might be worth it...but in the long run losing 2 lvls for this may not be worth it. I'd rather keep progressing in sorc lvls.

[ExSavior]

So XGE rules are out already and feeling Shadow Sorcerer + 1 level dip into Hexblade Warlock is the best Longsword build now.

[Ritorix]

Absorb Elements is on the sorc spell list now, that's going to be a huge boost in survivability. Back in POTA it was left off the sorc list.

[Chugger]

Was wondering what does everyone thinks about multi-classing warlock1 (or using magic initiate) to get the Warlock's Hex?

It seems to me that it doesn't pay off. Because the Sorcadin's concentration is almost invariably better occupied with a twinned haste, fly, hold person, greater invisibility, or polymorph.

Looking for opinions on this.


.

Don't take a 1 dip into hexblade just for that - which you may not use much - but take it for the lessening of MAD - take it so that your asi's spent on Cha help you in melee! Also you can take EB, when you need to take a ranged shot at something and firebolt won't work (like fire resis/im).

[Chugger]

I've been going through the new sorc choices in X (well and pal choices) - and I think several are strong.

The main prob I have is that the new book won't work with some of my pre-X build options, like only going Pal 2 or Pal 3 and using gfb and/or bb to melee attack several times a round. At least for AL - those cantrips are in the SCAG book and not X book.

So lately I've been mostly focused on going Oath of Conquest (because Redemption seems silly to me - could be great in a home game). Interesting that you can cast armor of ag as a sorcadin now, eventually using very high level sorc slots. That could be awesome in certain fights, especially against things that won't one-shot away the armor in one blow.

OoC teams with draconic sorc seems strong - dra means 8 hp a lvl with 16 sta, not 7 as w/ other sorc classes. Dra will net you one resist, but that's not so important any more as you get absorb elements as a sorc (lvl 1) in the new (x) book.

Sorc of shadow is promising. Lower hp but you can cast darkness w/ sorc pts and see thru it. Might mess up your allies but almost always messes up badguys (surprisingly few can see through it).

The other sorc class where you can take cleric spells - I'm still noodling on that. Bless, heals (strong heals w/ the class ab), and so on - if you can't fireball somethign cuz of fire resis you can take that lvl 3 cleric spell, spir guard, and do radiant damage as you melee. Anyway, lots to think about here.

[skaddix]

Celestial is tricky cause the Cleric and Sorcerer have so many good options with limited slots.

[Chugger]

Celestial is tricky cause the Cleric and Sorcerer have so many good options with limited slots.

Agreed. Some cler spells are giving in the Pal class - so right off you don't need to worry about those - or use that as guidance as to which Pal to pick.

But if you go Celestial, which Cler spells to pick? In AL too often no one has silence, and silence can be extremely useful. The main prob w/ spir guadians is that you need to maintain conc to keep it up - you're likely to be hit while using it - often a lot. But at 6 it has aura benefit to help you keep it up. If you're fighting something that fire won't hurt (so fireballs are out) - or they swarm the party and you don't have Careful (so fireballs are out) - or the room you're fighting in is just plain too small ... spir guard is not a bad fall-back option.

What Cler spells would you consider picking?

Also, when you don't go draconic you lose that extra +1 to hit points. I'm not sure losing resistance to your ancestor's breath weap is a big deal because we have access to absorb elements now (through X). And that's actually far more useful (at least in most situations I can think of) - compared to draconic resistance - though draconic resist occupies no spell slot (but does require a sorc pt).

What about going shadow sorc and fighting out of darkness? Normally when I think sorcadin I'm thinking sword and board, but with darkness and it's strong offensive and defensive benefits, GWM and two hand weapons - or even polearms - become very plausible. You're much more likely to land a -5 hit with advantage. You could even couple it w/ 1/2 elf and Elf Accuracy feat (or w/e it's called). So many new options - hurting my head!