Schlock Mercenary VII: A T.A.D. Too Much Dialogue These Days

[geoduck]

I think HT does read, or at least skim, the forums for his comics. It helps any author to understand what their readers are thinking, and it's not like he has a lot of places to check.

I mean, there's here, there's zoo.nightstar, and ... anyone else got a (probably long) list? :-)

There's a thread about SM over on the TV Tropes forums.

[eschmenk]

OK, this is starting to get confusing now. Are we supposed to know who owns the Tzundigo? Why is someone who they apparently know shooting missiles at them?

HT is starting things happening without setting laying much groundwork, but we know a few things by now. The little ship that attacked looked like Jozagle's Purse, which we saw here and here. The Tzundigo was supposed to be delivering supplies to it. I don't know why the Purse would attack Tzundigo, though. Maybe it's a different, but similar looking, ship? Maybe it was captured by a hostile force in the meantime?

I'm not sure whether or not it's significant, but I noticed that the little ship fired before Tzundigo managed to say who it was trying to deliver the packages to, then there was a joke about why Tzundigo didn't use its point defenses. That may point to the idea that a hostile crew took over the Purse. The hostile crew might not know that Tzundigo was there to make a delivery to the Purse and they might not have realized that Tzundigo had its defenses down because Tzundigo's crew would have assumed the Purse was friendly. Or maybe the original crew is still in control of the Purse, but no one told them that the Tzundigo would be making a delivery to them, so they mistakenly thought they should shoot at it? I doubt that, but the reason I'm considering the second idea is because of the director's confusion over codes. Maybe the Urtheep have problems because their codes are too complex.

Anyway, I don't know if it's relevant, but Urtheep Industries is the company that manufactured the M3 Taters, which were the guns used to infect the police with hostile nannies a couple of books ago. The guns may have been modified after they were manufactured, though. Assuming there is a bad guy within Urtheep Industries, the crew of the Purse may have had their minds taken over like the police did, though.

[factotum]

Even if the Jozagle's Purse had been taken over by hostiles, what benefit do they gain from shooting one missile at the bigger ship and then bugging out of the system? (OK, the second bit we didn't know when you made your analysis, but it's still germaine to the question, I think).

[smuchmuch]

Today comic confirm it was the Purse attacking Tzudingo.

Even if the Jozagle's Purse had been taken over by hostiles, what benefit do they gain from shooting one missile at the bigger ship and then bugging out of the system? (OK, the second bit we didn't know when you made your analysis, but it's still germaine to the question, I think).

The end of yesterday strip, partculary the past tense used, made it very clear that one 'package', whatever it was, was enough to neutralize ( possibly take over with nanites, though today's 'can't answer' and 'not a killer' would indicate it killed ) the entire crew of the Tzudingo

As for the motive, it seems whoever is behind this whishes to keep the content of the stellar encllosure to themselves or make sure it can't be revealed seems the most obvious, t with the little information we have at the moment.

[eschmenk]

Yeah, we haven't been told much, so it's hard to know what's going on. Since the overall theme was getting information out of the sphere, I'm going to guess that a particular piece of information (maybe the location of something) is important and that the current crew of the Purse already found that information. I'll also guess that whoever attacked the Tzundigo didn't want anyone else to learn the information quickly or to figure out where the Purse went next. I don't know who is in control of the Purse now, though. Basically, it comes down to this:

• If whoever is in control of the Purse was familiar with the Tzundigo and knew why it was there, then why did one of them ask, "Why do they bother installing point-defense cannons if they're not going to use them?" They would have known that the Tzundigo would have expected the Purse to be friendly and therefore was caught off-guard. It would be wrong to generalize from that. However, it's hard to know how much to read into that because sometimes the jokes don't seem consistent with the story.
• If whoever is in control of the Purse was not familiar with the Tzundigo, the question makes more sense, but then it's a little odd that they waited until the Tzundigo arrived (they wouldn't have known it was coming) before bugging out. However, it could be that they didn't see a need to hurry away until the Tzundigo arrived.

Anyway, I don't know if it's relevant, but Urtheep Industries is the company that manufactured the M3 Taters, which were the guns used to infect the police with hostile nannies a couple of books ago...

FWIW, that book is another one in which HT used a similar writing style in that he didn't let us know what was going on while things were happening. For example, we saw that Schlock had a separate secret mission long before we learned what the secret mission was. We learned early on that the Neosycronicity had something integrated into it that the Toughs didn't want the UNS to learn about, but we didn't learn what it was until the climax of the story. We never learned definitively why someone was trying to create a fake civil war; we merely learned that one or more Schuul seemed to be trying to make money by selling weapons to the sides and we didn't find out even that much until the end. We still don't know if the Schuul were just acting as intermediaries for someone else or even if that was just a red herring designed to lead suspicion away from the real people and the real goal. We were told that Sol System was already on the verge of civil war, but we were never shown that (except for the mind-controlled people) nor given a decent explanation for it. This may be another book in which things are explained very slowly if ever, but maybe we'll finally get some explanations for some of the questions that remain from the earlier book.

[guttering flame]

My assumption is this species is comic-villains. So villainous they randomly shoot each other for lols. They chose the wrong evolutionary path (Comic-book Villainy) and now have to pay the price.

[Douglas]

Looks like we've just seen the introduction to the Toughs' next job. Details and background may be forthcoming when Tagon gets briefed.

[factotum]

Yeah, I was thinking that. It's still probably going to take a while to figure out the central mystery of why the Jozagle's Purse did what it did, especially with the Toughs not being the most subtle guys around, but at least they'll be on the trail.

[Rockphed]

So, any thoughts on whether or not we are going to see this gun-you-bring-to-a-knife-fight (or knife-fight-gun, if you will) be crucial to the story? Or, to make things even more fun, is Kaff 2.0 going to refuse to have the gun installed and then its absence will lead to his death, again?

Of course, were it me, I would probably get 2 or 3 dragon cruisers with that gun. The gun becomes much more useful as a "stay out this area" thing if you can designate several areas as "stay out" at once.

[eschmenk]

So, any thoughts on whether or not we are going to see this gun-you-bring-to-a-knife-fight (or knife-fight-gun, if you will) be crucial to the story? Or, to make things even more fun, is Kaff 2.0 going to refuse to have the gun installed and then its absence will lead to his death, again?

Granted, the characters often act rather inconsistently, but if Kaff was opposed to bringing a gun to a knife fight in general, that would mean that the immortality nannies must not work as well as everyone thinks they do. That would be a reversal of one of his core philosophies, after all. I suppose the death experience or learning that Karl almost didn't decide to to recreate him might have made him rethink things, but I doubt that the comic will go there.

[halfeye]

Granted, the characters often act rather inconsistently, but if Kaff was opposed to bringing a gun to a knife fight in general, that would mean that the immortality nannies must not work as well as everyone thinks they do. That would be a reversal of one of his core philosophies, after all.

The problem with the gun is that it isn't one you'd choose to bring to a gunfight.

[Marcelinari]

The problem with the gun is that it isn't one you'd choose to bring to a gunfight.

Yeah, as a nominally 'main gun', it seems pretty damn bad. Especially since engagements seem to start at a sizeable distance in the current age of T.A.D. warfare. A gun that large firing gravy-braided plasma seems like a reasonably hefty power sink, for something which you would very rarely want to use.

Also consider that at the range the main gun is useful, a battleplate could crush most smaller ships via pure gravitic force.

[Rockphed]

Yeah, as a nominally 'main gun', it seems pretty damn bad. Especially since engagements seem to start at a sizeable distance in the current age of T.A.D. warfare. A gun that large firing gravy-braided plasma seems like a reasonably hefty power sink, for something which you would very rarely want to use.

Also consider that at the range the main gun is useful, a battleplate could crush most smaller ships via pure gravitic force.

Here is a question for consideration: who would win, a battleplate, or the smaller number of Dragon-class cruisers to cost as much as a battleplate or to have the same crew requirements as a battleplate?

[Gnoman]

Granted, the characters often act rather inconsistently, but if Kaff was opposed to bringing a gun to a knife fight in general, that would mean that the immortality nannies must not work as well as everyone thinks they do. That would be a reversal of one of his core philosophies, after all. I suppose the death experience or learning that Karl almost didn't decide to to recreate him might have made him rethink things, but I doubt that the comic will go there.

From the context, the problem isn't "I don't want to bring a gun to a knife-fight", it is "the range on this gun is so abysmally short that the only time it would ever be useful is in a knife-fight". It would be like strapping a flamethrower on the front of a superdreadnought.

[factotum]

A gun that large firing gravy-braided plasma seems like a reasonably hefty power sink, for something which you would very rarely want to use.

It has its own annie plant, so it doesn't provide any drain on the main power reserves regardless of what you do with it. Looking at the diagram the entire gun assembly looks to be an entirely separate device that just happens to be tacked onto the ship's hull, and I wonder if that's significant? Maybe we're going to see that gun removed from the cruiser and attached to something else at some point...

[Spojaz]

I feel like the authorial process that lead to this weapon went a little something like this:

"Okay, this ship needs a wind based name, that could be intimidating and it should be funny so I can use it as a joke for a few strips"
"gone with the wind? maybe."
"I already did breaking wind"
"Maybe something about being blown away?"
"Oooh, I know! breath weapon!"
"..."
"..."
"Now I want to draw a spaceship with a breath weapon."

[eschmenk]

I'm surprised at how much differently some people read that than how I did. I thought that everyone would have read it the same way. Apparently, not.

From the context, the problem isn't "I don't want to bring a gun to a knife-fight", it is "the range on this gun is so abysmally short that the only time it would ever be useful is in a knife-fight". It would be like strapping a flamethrower on the front of a superdreadnought.

No one thinks the problem was, "I don't want to bring a gun to a knife-fight." Kaff would want to bring a gun to a knife fight. There is no problem. Kaff is happy.

Even if there were a problem, the solution would be to throw away the gun? Keep in mind that was the question I was replying to. It not as if the cost of the gun is a problem, so why would Kaff want to do that?

I also think your comparison is a huge exaggeration. The new ship is just a small cruiser. It's not at all like a superdreadnought. Furthermore, the gun is more than a flamethrower because it would reliably go through shields, at least at short range, unlike anything else Kaff would have available. (I'm not counting the long guns, because the Toughs can't expect to use them.) Still, keep in mind that even flamethrowers have been very useful when installed on tanks and that's a much better analogy, IMO. Karl's analogy was that the other weapons dragon class cruisers had were claws and teeth, compared to the gun. That probably was an exaggeration in the other direction, but since the author put those words in Karl's mouth and Karl seemed to be acting sensible otherwise, I think that's probably a much more useful analogy than yours.

I do agree that Kaff would prefer to be able to one-shot enemies at any range, but I also think he would think that being able to one-shot them at short range would still be much better than not being able to one-shot them at all.

The problem with the gun is that it isn't one you'd choose to bring to a gunfight.

If all you've got are claws and teeth and it doesn't cost anything to bring it, why wouldn't you bring it? Karl called the decision to eliminate the gun "tragic." Assuming Karl stopped acting idiotic (so far it seems like he has) it would probably be a big mistake to not bring the gun.

Also consider that at the range the main gun is useful, a battleplate could crush most smaller ships via pure gravitic force.

It's not like they would be any more dead if crushed by a battleplate with the gun than without it. They probably would be more likely to remain alive if they wound up fighting an enemy their size at short range if they had the gun, though.

It has its own annie plant, so it doesn't provide any drain on the main power reserves regardless of what you do with it. Looking at the diagram the entire gun assembly looks to be an entirely separate device that just happens to be tacked onto the ship's hull, and I wonder if that's significant? Maybe we're going to see that gun removed from the cruiser and attached to something else at some point...

That wouldn't surprise me, not just because it looks tacked on, but also because it has its own annie plant, as you pointed out. It probably could be attached to one of Breath Weapon's unmanned boats, even. The boat could then be used to get close to an enemy ship without endangering a ship's crew. Of course, if they were going to do that, they should probably order more and equip several boats.

[Rockphed]

No one thinks the problem was, "I don't want to bring a gun to a knife-fight." Kaff would want to bring a gun to a knife fight. There is no problem. Kaff is happy.

Even if there were a problem, the solution would be to throw away the gun? Keep in mind that was the question I was replying to. It not as if the cost of the gun is a problem, so why would Kaff want to do that?

But there is a cost to installing the gun: about 40 hours, though some of that time might be for getting Cindy installed. That is why I suggested that Kaff might try to leave without installing the gun. He is often shown to be a shoot-from-the-hip sort who plans best mid-battle. I expect that he is not going to shoot from the hip and leave without his knife-fight-gun, but I have been wrong often enough lately that I have little faith in my own predictions.

[eschmenk]

But there is a cost to installing the gun: about 40 hours, though some of that time might be for getting Cindy installed. That is why I suggested that Kaff might try to leave without installing the gun. He is often shown to be a shoot-from-the-hip sort who plans best mid-battle. I expect that he is not going to shoot from the hip and leave without his knife-fight-gun, but I have been wrong often enough lately that I have little faith in my own predictions.

That's true. Karl made it pretty clear that getting the gun installed is the priority now, but things could change. Once it is installed, we might even find out that the gun slows the ship down or interferes with the other weapons or something like that, which could result in it being removed and possibly installed elsewhere.

[factotum]

Thing to bear in mind here is that Karl is the boss--Kaff would have to have a pretty darned good reason for ignoring his orders and leaving without his main gun.

[Imgran]

Oh dear, Kaff, your propensity for graphic mental images. I can't get the idea of sapient brain tumors out of my mind now.

[Imgran]

That's true. Karl made it pretty clear that getting the gun installed is the priority now, but things could change. Once it is installed, we might even find out that the gun slows the ship down or interferes with the other weapons or something like that, which could result in it being removed and possibly installed elsewhere.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that we still don't know everything about what gravity-braided plasma can do. Kaff has made things sound useless and then found ways to use them before.

He's got a tactical limitation on his gun that means he has to put his ship deep into harm's way to use it as specified, but Kaff Tagon cares not for your silly specifications. What he's about to mount on his new Dragon-class is a self contained weapon with its own internal annies. That sounds like a thing you can use to many different effects, either by detaching and remounting it as you suggest, or even by adding a teraport drive and moving it independently of the ship.

All of that aside, It's a Dragon Class Warship. Finally, Kaff Tagon is on absolutely familiar ground both tactically and performance wise and is in ship similar to the one he first made his name commanding. His ship isn't hastily improvised and far too small to be effective in most situations, (Serial Peacemaker, Bristlecone), or way too big and unwieldy for a crew of a size he's competent to command to make proper use of forcing him to trust far too much to the AI (Touch-And-Go, Pedey) or boasting odd specs that make it a tactical challenge to use effectively (Broken Wind). He's got a workhorse warship that's well within his own tactal competence to use at maximum efficiency, and good enoughfor any action other than against enemy capital ships -- and like the old battlecruisers, he's nimble enough to avoid anything he isn't powerful enough to kill. That's a potent combination, and it's a combination he used to his own advantage for many years before Kitesfear was destroyed by enemy subterfuge.

Now he's back in that comfort zone again, like he hasn't been in many years, and I think we'll see a level from Tagon that we haven't seen in the strip, an ability he clearly demonstrated from before the Andreyasns took over his operation.

[Marcelinari]

Here is a question for consideration: who would win, a battleplate, or the smaller number of Dragon-class cruisers to cost as much as a battleplate or to have the same crew requirements as a battleplate?

Upon reflection, the categorical differences between a Dragon and a Battleplate do render the comparison pretty invalid. And the dedicated annie-plant does relieve any power burden I might have inferred from its use. All in all, there are probably no material drawbacks to having the weapon itself.

Perhaps the biggest drawback, then, will be the temptation to use the damn thing. It seems to require dangerously close ranges, and a barrel the length of the ship itself does not exactly lend confidence to its accuracy and maneuverability at knife-fight ranges. Referring to it as the 'main gun' implies that it's intended to be of primary use - a tank's 'main gun' is not the turret-mounted machine gun, after all. The assumption that the weapon is meant to be used, combined with the danger involved in making the thing effective, could easily be a recipe for disaster.

Still, the weapon itself does not seem like a problem. Merely a hammer, with Kaff surrounded by screws.

[Imgran]

One interesting question I haven't seen yet with the new expansion of the mercenary fleet -- who's where? Which members of the old crew are currently assigned to which vessels?

Flinders' crew is probably on Breath Weapon, as intelligence is a fleet asset and belongs on the flagship. So is command and control, as well as the flag officers (by which I mostly mean Karl, Shodan, and Flinders) and I also suspect that Shodan and the heavy infantry (so Elizabeth and Chisulo), as well as the boat pilots and tankers (Chell), are on the flagship. Ch'vorthq and the galley team is probably there as well. If Ennesby is still deploying with the fleet he will also be on Breath Weapon. Obviously scenes that discuss fleetwide tactics, intel analysis, and overall plot are more often than not going to be played out using Breath Weapon as a backdrop.

With Kevyn on the Maxim 39 I'd expect to see Elf, Thurl and Ventura, if Ch'vorthq and his team are not on the flagship that's where he is too. A handful of infantry for security and a handful of techs round out the compliment, unless Ventura brought more than one Tarbot (I also expected this to be the ship that Cindy was AI-ing for, so I don't know what they're planning on doing about an AI for the Maxim 39 right now, Iafa is in the flagship, Ennesby is their legal counsel, and Cindy is with Kaff, that seems to be all the company's known AI's accounted for). That means that any discussion about supply, construction, and technology is going to take place in the Maxim 39.

With the new Dragon-class is where I expect Xeno Team to be, if only because I really doubt that Sergeant Schlock would want to serve on a ship not commanded by Captain Kaff Tagon, he's seemed really attached to Tagon over the years. I expect that that means that Ebbirnoth is going to be XOing for Tagon, and that Tagon's ship is probably going to be the one that draws reconaissance, intelligence gathering, and search and destroy missions, which are the missions we wind up seeing Xeno Team get most of the time. Frontline work in other words. Quite frankly, the company could probably benefit from another 4 Dragons besides Kaff's in order to make sure the front like stays in the front, but I don't suspect that will happen soon..

[Rockphed]

One interesting question I haven't seen yet with the new expansion of the mercenary fleet -- who's where? Which members of the old crew are currently assigned to which vessels?

Flinders' crew is probably on Breath Weapon, as intelligence is a fleet asset and belongs on the flagship. So is command and control, as well as the flag officers (by which I mostly mean Karl, Shodan, and Flinders) and I also suspect that Shodan and the heavy infantry (so Elizabeth and Chisulo), as well as the boat pilots and tankers (Chell), are on the flagship. Ch'vorthq and the galley team is probably there as well. If Ennesby is still deploying with the fleet he will also be on Breath Weapon. Obviously scenes that discuss fleetwide tactics, intel analysis, and overall plot are more often than not going to be played out using Breath Weapon as a backdrop.

With Kevyn on the Maxim 39 I'd expect to see Elf, Thurl and Ventura, if Ch'vorthq and his team are not on the flagship that's where he is too. A handful of infantry for security and a handful of techs round out the compliment, unless Ventura brought more than one Tarbot (I also expected this to be the ship that Cindy was AI-ing for, so I don't know what they're planning on doing about an AI for the Maxim 39 right now, Iafa is in the flagship, Ennesby is their legal counsel, and Cindy is with Kaff, that seems to be all the company's known AI's accounted for). That means that any discussion about supply, construction, and technology is going to take place in the Maxim 39.

With the new Dragon-class is where I expect Xeno Team to be, if only because I really doubt that Sergeant Schlock would want to serve on a ship not commanded by Captain Kaff Tagon, he's seemed really attached to Tagon over the years. I expect that that means that Ebbirnoth is going to be XOing for Tagon, and that Tagon's ship is probably going to be the one that draws reconaissance, intelligence gathering, and search and destroy missions, which are the missions we wind up seeing Xeno Team get most of the time. Frontline work in other words. Quite frankly, the company could probably benefit from another 4 Dragons besides Kaff's in order to make sure the front like stays in the front, but I don't suspect that will happen soon..

When you fight in space, you really should think in 3D. They need 5 more Dragons to keep the front line in front. Probably more.

Or, they could get other ships designed for flanking and screening to keep the action a suitable distance from Breath Weapon.

[eschmenk]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that we still don't know everything about what gravity-braided plasma can do. Kaff has made things sound useless and then found ways to use them before.

We weren't told why the gun can't pierce shields at long range (the gravy braid probably can't be projected very far), but if it's not too obvious, one thing to do would be to pair it up with a long gun and line up both guns' shots. The cruiser's gun's shot would stop at the shield and the long gun's shot would start just inside the shield. Any surviving witnesses would likely conclude that the cruiser's gun is effective at a longer range than it is. Any intelligence agencies that would know of the gun design's limitations might conclude that Kevyn figured out how to improve it. (Or maybe Kevyn will really figure out how to improve it.)

[smuchmuch]

• If whoever is in control of the Purse was familiar with the Tzundigo and knew why it was there, then why did one of them ask, "Why do they bother installing point-defense cannons if they're not going to use them?" They would have known that the Tzundigo would have expected the Purse to be friendly and therefore was caught off-guard. It would be wrong to generalize from that. However, it's hard to know how much to read into that because sometimes the jokes don't seem consistent with the story.
• If whoever is in control of the Purse was not familiar with the Tzundigo, the question makes more sense, but then it's a little odd that they waited until the Tzundigo arrived (they wouldn't have known it was coming) before bugging out. However, it could be that they didn't see a need to hurry away until the Tzundigo arrived.

.... you are thinking in a way that is both very logical yet ..er.. please take no offense at it, complety off the mark.

It's very clear from context that exchange in the last pannel of this strip is not a genuine answer to a genuine question, it's, both out AND in character, a joke and punchline /one liner disguised as a rethorical question and obvious answer

Like someone in a movie sudenly pulling aguna and shooting someone else and saying "you didn't saw THAT ONE comming, did you ?" No the person is not asking the dead body they just shot to suddenly revive and give an obvious answer of 'no'; it's a one liner for the the audience and the character own satisfaction.

So you shouldn't read it as:
"I don't understand why these people didn't fire their point defense ?"
but
"Hi I'm a villain establishisng in a single rethorical question and answer between copies of myself that 1)I have no regret about the killing I just did and in fact find it very funny since i'm sort of joking about it and 2) I'm saying in a casual comment that if these people had been more like me they would be expecting treachery all the time even from people who are supposedly their allies thus establishing I'm likely a paranoid sociopath as well as a cold blooded killer 3) I'm pretty much Kowalski 2.0"

So the exchange makes a lot of sense by narrative standart.

"Okay, this ship needs a wind based name, that could be intimidating and it should be funny so I can use it as a joke for a few strips"
"gone with the wind? maybe."
"I already did breaking wind"
"Maybe something about being blown away?"
"Oooh, I know! breath weapon!"
"..."
"..."
"Now I want to draw a spaceship with a breath weapon."

I think there was also a dash off
"okay I have pulled teleport combat, mass missiles, a laser that can fire anywhere.... what the hell am I comming up next that's new to make combat a little more interestig next chapter ?"

[eschmenk]

Well, I don't think there is any doubt that there was some typical SM casualness about killing other people on display there. Also, I was aware that the logic meant very little, but there was almost nothing else to go by. It was one of the few possible hints we had. I don't think the specifics of your interpretation are as obvious or certain as you think they are. Beyond that, even if HT intended for it to be read the way you did, I would have problems with it.

For one thing, a way to make someone seem buffoonish is to have them be too impressed with themselves after they do something that isn't very impressive. Catching a freighter that's delivering supplies to you off-guard seems like it would be trivially easy; if a villain is full of themselves just because they did that, they are going to come across as quite pathetic to me. That said, I have often been annoyed at how unbelievably stupid HT makes his characters seem at times, so perhaps this is just another case of me reacting more negatively than HT intended. Another possibility is that they had a reason to be full of themselves that's not apparent to me.

FWIW, Kowalski's monologue came across very differently to me. It included (implied, actually) a business-like explanation of why Kowalski killed Emm: Her lack of tradecraft made her a threat to him and he was done with her causing problems for him. The monologue ended less seriously, but it still didn't come across as if Kowalski was excessively full of himself.

[Rockphed]

Ooh! It's our favorite historian/food preparation expert! She's back! I like her.

And what is her relationship with Miss Flinders like?

[Cikomyr]

You know, reading Honor Harrington makes me realize the degree at which these starships are automated.

Think about it. There are no officers or crews to administrate the ships. Just an AI that does the Helmsmanship, the tactical, engineering, scanning. Sometimes, an officer is assigned com but the AI can override even them.