League Of Legends LXVII: "MY PICK'EMS!"

[mrcarter11]

I get it being better against bruisers in general, it just doesn't feel "insane" to me I guess. It seems like it is good against a smaller selection of heroes, one subset of which, "draintanks" already have a host of issues. Just seems like an odd choice by rito.

[Nadevoc]

Garen buffs why? He's never going to be a complicated champion unless he gets another rework.

I don't see how him not being complicated is at all related to him getting buffs.

[Vogie]

I get it being better against bruisers in general, it just doesn't feel "insane" to me I guess. It seems like it is good against a smaller selection of heroes, one subset of which, "draintanks" already have a host of issues. Just seems like an odd choice by rito.

When I think of a draintank, I think of Swain... Which could be impacted by bramblevest (provided He's Autoattacking while still Crowing around), but I doubt will ever be built against that pick.

[Ashen Lilies]

My hype for new!Diana top may be slightly muted by the fact that it's apparently time to play Running Simulator 2017.

Also Kayn is really fun. The reddit consensus seems to be that he's trash, which I'm just fine with, since I happen to disagree, and it means I get to play him more reliably once the hype dies down.

[Vogie]

My hype for new!Diana top may be slightly muted by the fact that it's apparently time to play Running Simulator 2017.

Also Kayn is really fun. The reddit consensus seems to be that he's trash, which I'm just fine with, since I happen to disagree, and it means I get to play him more reliably once the hype dies down.

I faced a top Kayn for the first time last night. Absolutely disassembled the Rumble player top, and the only reason he could be shut down is because I played Malz and could just shut him down long enough. Still ended up losing though.

[Ashen Lilies]

Picking Rammus into the Kayle/Yi cheese and bodying the pair of them when they came for me at 6 is hella satisfying and one of the better games I've had in a while.

(shout out to rito balance team for bramble vest i couldn't have done it without you)

[McDouggal]

Spoiler: CLG vs FLY

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Omargod made his LCS debut in game 2.

Darshan also got a fully stacked Mejai's on top Galio in game 2.

[EternalMelon]

"I think Orianna might be better mid than jungle." -Thrantar

[lord_khaine]

Kinda sad to see Froggen benched. It was close to my main reason for watching the NA LCS.

[The Hellbug]

"I think Orianna might be better mid than jungle." -Thrantar

Can confirm. In know, I couldn't believe it either.

[Anarion]

"I think Orianna might be better mid than jungle." -Thrantar

Is Thrantar okay? Does he need some help?

[Ivellius]

Is Thrantar okay? Does he need some help?

BRB trying Orianna jungle (not really tho)

To be fair, if someone really wanted me to play Orianna jungle I would.

Any thoughts on Kayn? He seems okay--I like the concept behind his forms, though it feels like his ideal playstyle changes pretty drastically if you go Rhaast. I've only played one game on him, though: my biggest complaint was that his ranges felt a bit short, given you have to tag someone before you can ult them. Not sure my build path was very good, either (Warrior -> Cleaver -> attempted Death's Dance but our team started losing so I didn't finish it).

[Ashen Lilies]

Obligatory Statistical Analysis:

He's not doing great in winrate at the moment, and the general perception seems to range in between him being either quite weak or absolutely garbage. People are definitely preferring the Slayer form over the Shadow Assassin form. He probably won't get buffed next patch, since I think Riot is committed to being cautious about this release given how game warping certain parts his kit are, but unless something drastically changes, it's reasonable to expect that he'll need buffs in the next few patches, most likely to his Shadow Assassin form.

Spoiler: Don't look in here

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Personally though, I've been playing him at any chance I get (probably more so than anyone in the thread that I know of) and I like him a whole bunch. A whole bunch. Generally speaking, I find him very similar in playstyle to Evelynn (my current main jungler), in terms of his early game objectives, play patterns, and a lot of his strengths and weaknesses. The main difference is that he trades in Evelynn's very sharp main identity of "i died instantly from stealth wtf 0 counterplay gg rito" for more versatility later on, especially if you transition into a bruiser playstyle, since he gets access to better itemization and better tools as Rhaast than Evelynn does. He's less selfish and snowball reliant than Evelynn has to be to succeed, but still snowballs pretty well given the chance. Like Evelynn and also Zac, he rewards smart pathing to make the best use of his tool set, and his unique mobility tools are really good at breaking the normal expectations of how the map works (where to place wards, what parts of the map are 'safe' and 'unsafe') to punish players for making choices that would have been 'correct' in 95% of games that don't involve a champion that can just ****ing walk through walls, sneak over all your wards, or slingshot himself across an entire lane.

75% of the time or so you'll probably want to go with the Slayer form over the Shadow Assassin form, which I think is fine. It's just the nature of the game that bruisers function better than Assassins when not snowballing, and I think the Shadow Assassin has plenty of tools the Slayer doesn't have to really pop off and accelerate a lead if you are popping off. I could see some buffs in SA's future, but I think it's only a real problem if in cases where you would ordinarily pick Shadow Assassin, Slayer is still better, and I don't think that's true.

General stuff:

His clear is of average speed, but is pretty healthy if you do it properly. Kite the camps and focus on clearing with your ability cooldowns. He's great at AoE camps like chickens, but a little slow on the buffs or gromp. His scuttle take is mediocre as well since he can't knock away its resists unless he's Rhaast.

His low early damage means he'll get beat up on by pretty much any jungler 1v1. Dodge invades and avoid direct conflict as best you can. Your chances are much better in 2v2 or 3v3 skirmishes, however - your Q and E let you kite effectively and support your bash buddy from range with W. Play as a skirmisher, kite kite kite, and don't get too greedy.

His gank appears weak on paper, since he has relatively low damage, short range, and soft CC. The main tool that lets you gank is your E, which gives you bonkers gank pathing, again very similar to Evelynn. If you just try and brute force a gank like a Lee Sin or Elise can, you'll probably fail. Kayn's ganks are reliant on good pathing to be successful. If I see another Kayn gank midlane by just walking in from the side bushes, I'm gonna tilt off the face of the earth. Use the long river walls or the enemy-side raptor wall to make your entrance for a more successful gank. Gank from the alcove near gromp to attack red-side's bot or blue-side's top. He can also lane gank by stepping into the map edge and traveling along it for a quicker entrance.

Seriously, E is actually just ****ing nuts as a jungle spell. Use it freely as you can to find ways to traverse the jungle faster, dodge vision, skirmish, and invent ridiculous OP gank paths. His early game jungle success relies almost entirely on how good you are at abusing this ability. All dragons are also belong to Kayn, too.

Once level 6, you can tower dive very well using your R. Start off by tanking the turret for your laner, bait abilities, then use R to drop aggro. Try to predict escapes and R them to follow. Predict other important abilities that could turn a gank (Cassio R, Darius trying to heal with his Q...) and R to dodge them. Don't overestimate the damage your R gives you - it's bad early game. Really bad. Most of the power of this ability at the moment comes from its utility, not from damage.

Form specific:

Shadow Assassin Kayn can be a really oppressive force on the map when played well (or handled poorly). Much like Evelynn, he can punish warding supports or solo soaking carries really well by using his shadowstepping to come from a 'safe' direction and kill them, even if they have average vision control. Remember that your W can be used while in motion while in this form, and has extended range, meaning you can even use it from inside the wall just before you emerge, speeding up your burst and lowering the amount of time the enemy has to react. In teamfights, Shadow Assassin Kayn is rather vulnerable. Look for flanks (again, use your wallwalking to dodge vision when you can) and kite around the edge of fights. Again, your W has bonus range and very high damage output (the AD ratio is increased in this form) meaning you can harass and poke enemies from a respectable distance while on the run. Burst low targets and use your ult to catch people, reset your passive, or dodge CC + damage as necessary.

Rhaast is a pretty versatile and disruptive bruiser. His sustain and mobility can make him very difficult to kill as long as he's not solo-diving the enemy team. He's not as good as Kled or Jarvan IV at just going full HAM and diving straight for their backline (unless you're unreasonably fed), but he's pretty effective at darting in and out of the fray to land repeated knockups and sustain damage, sort of like a tankier, more disruption-focused Riven. R to catch a fleeing target, or munch on a tank for a great heal. Your R actually does very appreciable damage to tanks in this form, but your R damage against squishies is still low. Like all versions of Kayn, abusing your E is a great path to success, especially with the addition of hard CC to your kit, meaning it's highly worth your time to try and find a flank through a wall (especially in sieges, where many of the thicker walls near towers are considered 'safe territory') to land a knock-up directly on their backline.

Builds:

Warrior -> Cleaver -> Tank or Cinderhulk -> Cleaver -> Bruiser/Tank seems appropriate for Rhaast. He's definitely very ability focused compared to auto-attack focused - I don't recommend building for attack speed or Titanic Hydra.

For the Shadow Assassin, Warrior -> AD all the way. Lethality is a very good stat on him and he makes good use of both Ghostblade and Duskblade depending on whether you want the mobility or the burst upon exiting a wall (I'm not sure if using his ult refreshes Duskblade's proc - I'll have to test that). Cleaver, Guardian Angel, Death's Dance, and Maw are all worthy choices as well. Again, I don't recommend attack speed, since you ideally want to be focusing all your damage into your first rotation in order to make the most of his passive.

tl;dr dog champ no one should bother banning or playing him

[Vogie]

Obligatory Statistical Analysis:

He's not doing great in winrate at the moment, and the general perception seems to range in between him being either quite weak or absolutely garbage. People are definitely preferring the Slayer form over the Shadow Assassin form. He probably won't get buffed next patch, since I think Riot is committed to being cautious about this release given how game warping certain parts his kit are, but unless something drastically changes, it's reasonable to expect that he'll need buffs in the next few patches, most likely to his Shadow Assassin form.

Snip

tl;dr dog champ no one should bother banning or playing him

Well, the stats from the first week of play aren't very useful... still very much in flux of the best way to do things.

I do like the association with Evelyn and Zac, though... probably more like Eve, as the little orb that hugs the wall gives away his location, similar to the "!" above your head when Eve is nearby. And also, in the sense that reliable CC is the bane of Eve & Kayn's existence.

Zac is more into the zone of Nocturne and the reworked Warwick, where the initiation is less telegraphed, and out of nowhere

[McDouggal]

The last few games I've played of solo queue, it feels like I've outwarded the support.

As a midlane Orianna.

Every time I'd look at the map, it would be my wards plus maybe one or two allied wards. On very rare occasion.

THE SUPPORTS EVEN BUILT SIGHTSTONE ITEMS AND WEREN'T WARDING

THEY WOULD DIE WITH FULL SIGHTSTONE CHARGES

[Ivellius]

I led my team in vision score the other day...as ADC Miss Fortune.

But yeah, people need to place more wards.

[thracian]

The last few games I've played of solo queue, it feels like I've outwarded the support.

As a midlane Orianna.

Every time I'd look at the map, it would be my wards plus maybe one or two allied wards. On very rare occasion.

THE SUPPORTS EVEN BUILT SIGHTSTONE ITEMS AND WEREN'T WARDING

THEY WOULD DIE WITH FULL SIGHTSTONE CHARGES

I'll admit, my warding scores on support are pretty much always terrible. I typically end up with Sightstone as a third or fourth item...

EDIT: Although I pretty much always buy the most pink wards in a game, regardless of position.

[Ashen Lilies]

New Champion Roadmap!

tl;dr summary:

• Next champion is going to be a Vanguard from the Freljord. They may have some sort of warhorn mechanic in one of their abilities (based off teaser image).
• Evelynn VGU after the New Champ. Still permastealth, probably killed Vayne's parents. Has a tail(?) and horns according to Vayne's updated lore, so she's probably just a straight up succubus now? I'd be so damn happy if that's the case. She still has heels though, which I presume are still not easy to move (like her) in.
• Xin Zhao mini-rework fairly soon-ish. He's going to have a new W.
• Azir still being worked on. He's either going to have to ditch the range and keep the Shurima Shuffle, or ditch the Shuffle and keep the range. I'm betting on the latter, since it seems more in line with his 'thematic' as the emperor of birds who lets all his soldiers do the heavy lifting, even if the Shurima Shuffle ended up being an Iconic Play.
• Swain confirmed for next major VGU after Evelynn. Gameplay goals are to make him actually the 'Master Tactician' worthy of being Grand General of Noxus, rather than "caw caw caw I run and eat you now". Probably still gonna turn into a bird at some point, though?

[Olinser]

new champion roadmap!

tl;dr summary:

• next champion is going to be a vanguard from the freljord. They may have some sort of warhorn mechanic in one of their abilities (based off teaser image).
• evelynn vgu after the new champ. Still permastealth, probably killed vayne's parents. Has a tail(?) and horns according to vayne's updated lore, so she's probably just a straight up succubus now? I'd be so damn happy if that's the case. She still has heels though, which i presume are still not easy to move (like her) in.
• xin zhao mini-rework fairly soon-ish. He's going to have a new w.
• azir still being worked on. He's either going to have to ditch the range and keep the shurima shuffle, or ditch the shuffle and keep the range. I'm betting on the latter, since it seems more in line with his 'thematic' as the emperor of birds who lets all his soldiers do the heavy lifting, even if the shurima shuffle ended up being an iconic play.
• swain confirmed for next major vgu after evelynn. Gameplay goals are to make him actually the 'master tactician' worthy of being grand general of noxus, rather than "caw caw caw i run and eat you now". Probably still gonna turn into a bird at some point, though?

NOT MY SWAIN.

rito y u do dis.

[Vogie]

[*] Azir still being worked on. He's either going to have to ditch the range and keep the Shurima Shuffle, or ditch the Shuffle and keep the range. I'm betting on the latter, since it seems more in line with his 'thematic' as the emperor of birds who lets all his soldiers do the heavy lifting, even if the Shurima Shuffle ended up being an Iconic Play.[*] Swain confirmed for next major VGU after Evelynn. Gameplay goals are to make him actually the 'Master Tactician' worthy of being Grand General of Noxus, rather than "caw caw caw I run and eat you now". Probably still gonna turn into a bird at some point, though?[/LIST]

Radical idea that will never happen - They Remove both champions from the game

They introduce a new champion, Swazirn, a Noxian Tactician who has been possessed with an ancient shuriman artifact, leading to a Kayn-style transformation passive. This guy is going to turn into a bird. It could be towards a mythical bird-sorcerer, or a Ancient Bird Emperor that summons soldiers, but Swazirn is going to be a bird.

[Olinser]

Radical idea that will never happen - They Remove both champions from the game

They introduce a new champion, Swazirn, a Noxian Tactician who has been possessed with an ancient shuriman artifact, leading to a Kayn-style transformation passive. This guy is going to turn into a bird. It could be towards a mythical bird-sorcerer, or a Ancient Bird Emperor that summons soldiers, but Swazirn is going to be a bird.

[Vogie]

- snip -

Spoiler: ...

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[thracian]

Forum etiquette: Please put images in spoilers. They are large.

EDIT: And when quoting them, please snip out the image from the quote. No need to increase bandwidth requirements on the page.

[Renegade Paladin]

Forum etiquette: Please put images in spoilers. They are large.

EDIT: And when quoting them, please snip out the image from the quote. No need to increase bandwidth requirements on the page.

Having the same image from the same source twice on the same page doesn't increase the bandwidth requirements; it's only served once and the forum simply displays the same image in two places. But the quote tags do make the whole thing wider still, so yes.

Anyway, I've been away from League for a few months; too busy. I expect my schedule to clear up after Gen Con, though, so I'll get back in and see if I can keep up my record of lucking into Silver right at the wire.

[thracian]

Having the same image from the same source twice on the same page doesn't increase the bandwidth requirements; it's only served once and the forum simply displays the same image in two places. But the quote tags do make the whole thing wider still, so yes.

Anyway, I've been away from League for a few months; too busy. I expect my schedule to clear up after Gen Con, though, so I'll get back in and see if I can keep up my record of lucking into Silver right at the wire.

If it's quoted over a page break it increases bandwidth requirements, and not everyone will always have the same number of posts per page.

[McDouggal]

Spaghetti Please

[Duck999]

Why does the Urgot champ update say (Top Laner) in parenthesis? I get that he is a top laner, but they've never done this before, so I don't know why they're sharing it now. Is this gonna be a new thing?

[Ashen Lilies]

Dammit Rito, stop trying to sell me Kayle skins before you give her a real auto-attack animation.

I mean, I'll probably buy it anyway, but for real, she needs the Jax treatment pretty badly. She always feels so awful to use.

As for Urgot, I expect the reason is because he generally saw a lot of play in bot lane (his original home) and mid lane (in pro play especially) in his pre-rework state. If he's not terribly functional in these roles anymore, they'll be hoping to alleviate player frustration a bit by giving an indication of where they expect him to succeed most based on their design intent and playtesting.

[McDouggal]

CLG sent Dardoch to Liquid.

Discuss.

[PhantomFox]

The game of hot potato continues? I guess clg is now the loser of the trade with immortals. He reminds me of a former NFL player who was too good to pass up, but too much drama to keep. Chad 'Ochocinco' Johnson?