Mass Effect Andromeda: To Boldly Go

[Squark]

If I was Paragon Control-Shep, I'd send a reaper after the Arks to tell everyone it's okay and they can come back now.

Most of the Ark passengers know nothing about the Reapers other than perhaps "Shepard's deranged rambling". They didn't leave to escape the Reapers, they left to boldly go where no man had gone before.

The Reapers might have motivated some of the Initiatives leaders, but even then, I imagine they'd still like to stay in Andromeda.

I also suspect something is going to happen that makes the Milky Way assume that the arks were lost en route, to explain why nobody mentions that the arks are preserving Galactic Civilization in ME3- Perhaps the same thing that caused them to be scattered at the start of the game?

[Psyren]

I also suspect something is going to happen that makes the Milky Way assume that the arks were lost en route, to explain why nobody mentions that the arks are preserving Galactic Civilization in ME3- Perhaps the same thing that caused them to be scattered at the start of the game?

No need - I doubt the Initiative was widely known, and in any event by the time the various races took the Reaper threat seriously, the Arks were all several months gone.

I could probably see the Asari government shooting a probe after them after the fall of Thessia saying "Yeah, probably best if you all stay in that galaxy because the MW is screwed" - but since even that would take centuries to get there, the message would be fairly irrelevant even then.

[tonberrian]

No need - I doubt the Initiative was widely known, and in any event by the time the various races took the Reaper threat seriously, the Arks were all several months gone.

I could probably see the Asari government shooting a probe after them after the fall of Thessia saying "Yeah, probably best if you all stay in that galaxy because the MW is screwed" - but since even that would take centuries to get there, the message would be fairly irrelevant even then.

It's not like the Arks don't take centuries too. I think that even if it takes centuries to communicate and the Andromeda project can't do anything about the Milky Way's problems, they'd like to be kept in the loop.

Though it seems scientifically feasible to build a mega-relay system to bridge the gap between Andromeda and the Milky Way. I doubt that will happen in the games though.

[Psyren]

It's not like the Arks don't take centuries too. I think that even if it takes centuries to communicate and the Andromeda project can't do anything about the Milky Way's problems, they'd like to be kept in the loop.

But it's also risky - any communication they try to get out to Andromeda could potentially be intercepted by the Reapers, who would have even less problem popping over to the other galaxy. After all, when they're finished reaping this one, they have 50,000 years of downtime to go drop in on the next, 6 centuries is nothing.

I'm not saying the races didn't try, but if they didn't, not doing so is understandable.

Though it seems scientifically feasible to build a mega-relay system to bridge the gap between Andromeda and the Milky Way. I doubt that will happen in the games though.

Does it? Relays orbit stars, that's presumably what powers them. Having two relays that connect across dark space may indeed not be possible. We also don't know whether there are any hard Newtonian limits to Relay corridor distance etc.

[Squark]

It's not like the Arks don't take centuries too. I think that even if it takes centuries to communicate and the Andromeda project can't do anything about the Milky Way's problems, they'd like to be kept in the loop.

Relevant Discussion of comparable idea The Arks were travelling about 4230 Light Years a day*. Catching up would require you to go significantly faster, and turning around would require still more energy. And without a Mass Relay, you don't have access to instantaneous communication.

*Which is actually a bit of a plot hole. The Reapers' speed of 30 light years/day was supposed to be beyond anything the Milky Way Species are capable of. If such an incredibly faster drive exists, why don't they use it? Granted, Intergalactic Space is much emptier, making such velocities safer, and you've got more time to accelerate, but still, you'd think a drive capable of crossing the Milky Way in under a month would be used.

[Dienekes]

But it's also risky - any communication they try to get out to Andromeda could potentially be intercepted by the Reapers, who would have even less problem popping over to the other galaxy. After all, when they're finished reaping this one, they have 50,000 years of downtime to go drop in on the next, 6 centuries is nothing.

I'm not saying the races didn't try, but if they didn't, not doing so is understandable.



Does it? Relays orbit stars, that's presumably what powers them. Having two relays that connect across dark space may indeed not be possible. We also don't know whether there are any hard Newtonian limits to Relay corridor distance etc.

So I never played Arrival. But wasn't a big point of that (and the end of ME1 for that matter) that the Reapers had their own special relay out in the dark?

[Squark]

So I never played Arrival. But wasn't a big point of that (and the end of ME1 for that matter) that the Reapers had their own special relay out in the dark?

They have one that connected to the Citadel, yes. The Alpha Relay was more of a backup backdoor that could be used to bypass conventional routes to hit undefended targets that conventional Galactic Wisdom would believe were safe behind existing lines of defense.

[Dienekes]

They have one that connected to the Citadel, yes. The Alpha Relay was more of a backup backdoor that could be used to bypass conventional routes to hit undefended targets that conventional Galactic Wisdom would believe were safe behind existing lines of defense.

Yeah, but I mean that would imply they're not powered by stars, wouldn't it? Since they're between galaxies.

[warty goblin]

Mass Effect's physics only ever vaguely work if you just go with the fairly reasonable sounding technobabble and don't think about it. At all. Three sustained seconds of concentration, and the whole thing just goes to pieces.

Which is totally fine with me. It's sci-fi mumbo-jumbo that lets the game do fun stuff with a veneer of scientific realism, which makes it a lot more fun. Just don't go poking it, 'cause you'll go right through the very thin surface hardness into the squelchy, plot-driven interior.

[Psyren]

So I never played Arrival. But wasn't a big point of that (and the end of ME1 for that matter) that the Reapers had their own special relay out in the dark?

They did - but it was close enough to the galactic rim that flying "manually" only took them a few extra months. So it's clear they are lurking right over the border. This is not at all the same as a relay spanning 600 years worth of travel.

Yeah, but I mean that would imply they're not powered by stars, wouldn't it? Since they're between galaxies.

That one isn't "between" - more like "adjacent." And the range on it was again pretty short compared to what is being proposed.

The physics of relay corridors has not been explored to any large degree. I somewhat doubt they can span any distance imaginable.

[Typewriter]

Relevant Discussion of comparable idea The Arks were travelling about 4230 Light Years a day*. Catching up would require you to go significantly faster, and turning around would require still more energy. And without a Mass Relay, you don't have access to instantaneous communication.

I believe that the instantaneous communication that they used in certain situations (like the Normandy) was based around quantum entanglement, not around the relays so it's possible that the ship could have a way of communicating instantaneously with the Milky Way.

[tonberrian]

Relevant Discussion of comparable idea The Arks were travelling about 4230 Light Years a day*. Catching up would require you to go significantly faster, and turning around would require still more energy. And without a Mass Relay, you don't have access to instantaneous communication.

*Which is actually a bit of a plot hole. The Reapers' speed of 30 light years/day was supposed to be beyond anything the Milky Way Species are capable of. If such an incredibly faster drive exists, why don't they use it? Granted, Intergalactic Space is much emptier, making such velocities safer, and you've got more time to accelerate, but still, you'd think a drive capable of crossing the Milky Way in under a month would be used.

Err. You send the Arks x velocity. You send out a messenger at x velocity 9 months later, and it arrives 9 months after the arks. That's what I'm saying.

[5ColouredWalker]

Spoiler: New Cinematic

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Guess who've been confirmed? [Whited out so you can watch first.]

The Quarians. Yep, they're here to stay. Habitat 4, They traveled with the Turians.

[Psyren]

Called it

Only one dextro world though? Seems kind of a bummer that everyone else gets so much choice and they don't. I suppose they should be lucky there even was the one, but...

[Dienekes]

Spoiler

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Damn even the space gypsies managed to find a ride and they aren't even a Citadel race. But the greatest species in the ME Universe still hasn't been mentioned.

[Squark]

Spoiler

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Damn even the space gypsies managed to find a ride and they aren't even a Citadel race. But the greatest species in the ME Universe still hasn't been mentioned.

Spoiler

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Volus? Hanar? Elcor?

[Dienekes]

Spoiler

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Volus? Hanar? Elcor?

Spoiler

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Bah sorry I was being stupidly vague.

Elcor of course Elcor. I want a lumbering slow talking cow/weapon platform for a companion. I've said this since the first game!

[LibraryOgre]

So, Elcor biotics. Do you think they train for finesse, not power, given the differing needs of their species?

[Psyren]

So, Elcor biotics. Do you think they train for finesse, not power, given the differing needs of their species?

I'm not totally convinced they can. Remember, most biotics require a full range of movement to make the eezo nodes on your nerve endings fire - in short, they have somatic components. That's why Shepard grabbing Samara/Morinth rendered them helpless. Elcor are strong, but being as ponderous as they are, practical biotics may be beyond them.

[Anteros]

I'm not totally convinced they can. Remember, most biotics require a full range of movement to make the eezo nodes on your nerve endings fire - in short, they have somatic components. That's why Shepard grabbing Samara/Morinth rendered them helpless. Elcor are strong, but being as ponderous as they are, practical biotics may be beyond them.

I think it's easy to hand-wave it that their nervous system is different enough from other races due to their physiological differences that it wouldn't be an issue if Bioware chooses to go that way.

[SangoProduction]

I like exploration but I agree, the Mako was not at all the way to go about it. So my hope is that Andromeda hits the sweet spot when it comes to traversal.

The ME1 ammo system is back (for those who want it.)

Optimistic. It's supposed to be...what? 5x as large a play area as the previous mass effect games? Which likely means there's a lot more chaff to wade through with the Mako 2.0.

[Psyren]

Optimistic. It's supposed to be...what? 5x as large a play area as the previous mass effect games? Which likely means there's a lot more chaff to wade through with the Mako 2.0.

The key to a sprawling sandbox is to make traversal itself engaging. Games like Spiderman 2 and Prototype proved that - as long as getting around is inherently fun, having a big map is inherently fun.

ME has another big advantage (squad banter). DAI had a ton of it and that was a last-gen game, so I'm hoping we got plenty here too.

[Rodin]

One concern with the easy traversal of the open world - the resource gathering.

Both DA:Inquisition and Horizon:Zero Dawn (these games need shorter names) have mounts that you could ride to quickly get around the game world. I never use them, because it means riding past all the resources lying everywhere. If you see a resource you want, you have to stop, get off, grab the resource, clamber back on again. It was perversely faster to walk if you were going to be gathering resources all over the place.

If the resources are an occasional thing (a few of them per world that require seeking out as a sidequest) then it'll be fine. But if there's Elvenroot Eezo nodes every 5 feet? It'll make the Mako useless.

[Psyren]

I definitely agree, DAI shot itself in the foot in this regard. I almost never use the damn horse because you miss so much.

But we've already seen that you can launch probes from inside the Mako, so my guess is that these can be used to perform a harvesting function without getting out. (I hope that's the case anyway.)

[Dienekes]

One concern with the easy traversal of the open world - the resource gathering.

Both DA:Inquisition and Horizon:Zero Dawn (these games need shorter names) have mounts that you could ride to quickly get around the game world. I never use them, because it means riding past all the resources lying everywhere. If you see a resource you want, you have to stop, get off, grab the resource, clamber back on again. It was perversely faster to walk if you were going to be gathering resources all over the place.

If the resources are an occasional thing (a few of them per world that require seeking out as a sidequest) then it'll be fine. But if there's Elvenroot Eezo nodes every 5 feet? It'll make the Mako useless.

And I basically always used the horse.

But I ended the game with only upgrading the health potions once and made 1 late game suit of armor and weapons for everyone. So I took great steps to avoid the collection gathering and crafting as much as I was able.

[warty goblin]

There's also the alternative of just letting you harvest/tag stuff from your vehicle. Two Worlds 2 for instance let you harvest resources from a horse at full gallop. With a bit of skill at timing you could ride by a hyena-headed monster, kill it, and rip its heart all in one smooth movement.

[Rodin]

There's also the alternative of just letting you harvest/tag stuff from your vehicle. Two Worlds 2 for instance let you harvest resources from a horse at full gallop. With a bit of skill at timing you could ride by a hyena-headed monster, kill it, and rip its heart all in one smooth movement.

Now that would be awesome.

[warty goblin]

The key to a sprawling sandbox is to make traversal itself engaging. Games like Spiderman 2 and Prototype proved that - as long as getting around is inherently fun, having a big map is inherently fun.

ME has another big advantage (squad banter). DAI had a ton of it and that was a last-gen game, so I'm hoping we got plenty here too.

Not sure I entirely agree here. Never played Spiderman 2 or Prototype (or much Prototype at least), but I did sink a fair number of hours into Saints Row 4. Ultimately one of the things that turned me off from the game was that its (very good) super-powered running and flying made the world sort of irrelevant. I much preferred the slower, but much more tied to the world methods of SR 3.

Really, what I want more than any particular mode of traversal though is the promise that exploration will result in something interesting. This does not mean setting a waypoint on the map, driving to the waypoint, and picking up 3 flurzles I can use to craft a yargle. Hoovering up crafting supplies isn't particularly interesting, and I'm sure as hell not gonna spend ten minutes schlepping around the map just to collect 'em all. I don't mind some run-by looting as part of moving around between actual bits of interesting content, be they bits of story or what have you.

The points of interest in Witcher 3 were a great example of this. Getting there wasn't usually particularly difficult, but was a bit of an excursion from the main plot routes, you could grab up some inventory clutter on the way if you felt like it, but there was almost always something to do there, which tied in with the overall feel and theme of the level. It was a map full of things to do, not a map filled with Ubistuff to check off, if you see the distinction.

Now that would be awesome.

Sort of the story with a lot of Two Worlds 2. It's in no way a particularly good game, but it's hella fun nonetheless.

[Anteros]

I don't see any reason why you wouldn't be able to scan things from the Mako, but it will still slow down travel time if you're constantly having to park or alter your route. I hope they just don't go that route at all and making gathering resources interesting in its own right with side quests and stuff rather than just throwing a million nodes all over the map.

[Anonymouswizard]

I definitely agree, DAI shot itself in the foot in this regard. I almost never use the damn horse because you miss so much.

I went the opposite route, almost never crafting because the horse let me get to interesting stuff faster and I turned in most materials to fulfil requisitions. In fact the one time I bothered to craft a weapon I went out to do some sidequesting and had a better sword drop about five minutes later.

Now I don't mind crafting systems, I actually rather like them, but I'd rather have one instead of random drops instead of in addition to them (it would also solve the problem of the endless useless daggers and bows when Varric's my rogue).