Unity and Determination: Castilonium’s guide to the Path of War Zealot

[TiaC]

Comparing Ascetic Style to unarmed combat, can easily be worth it if you plan to use Lesson V a lot. Lesson V is one of those stances you can build around and expect to be in all the time.

Ascetic style needs two or three feats, depending on if you get Fuse Styles, but Greater Unarmed strike needs two. That extra feat can buy you 1.5 Str to damage, better crits, and an easier time overcoming material DR. That seems like a decent trade to me.

I believe the Flicker Gauntlet works for Mithral Current by the text of the sidebar on Page 90 of PoW:E.

"A weapon is considered sheathed if it is in a non-threatening position, such as a monk putting their hands at their sides or in their pockets, a spear wielder pointing the tip of their spear into the ground, a soulknife with an unformed mind blade, or even a samurai keeping their katana in its sheath. The terminology of sheathing the weapon is only intended to serve as a shorthand for any number of ways a warrior can present themselves as non-threatening with their weapon."

Sheathing is not really a game term, it just applies to any situation where the weapon is not obviously ready for use. A stored weapon would seem to fit into the same area as an unformed mindblade and count as sheathed.

[Sokerimuro]

Hey there, and thanks for an awesome guide that is regularly referred in my case nowadays :)

I am a keen PoW fan, writer and homebrewer so it is warming to see someone put this much effort into a guide! Job well done!

Anyways, just noticed that the guide still has, under Void Prophet archetype, the notion that there is nothing protecting VP from the Fort saves required when a collective member dies. While ago I noticed that d20pfsrd was missing the clause that was present in the printed version of the books that I have. Now after the update to the site this clause has also been updated to d20pfsrd, and is as follows:

At 1st level, she may add unwilling members to her collective as a move action, and may expend her psionic focus to add an unwilling member as a swift action instead. A void prophet never loses power points as a result of an unwilling member of her collective dying.

It is a bit vague, but I believe the end part referring "never losing power points" might be their way of saying, although a bit awkwardly, that Void Prophet would not need to make saves when unwilling members of the collective are reduced to 0 hit points.

Cheers :)

[upho]

Anyways, just noticed that the guide still has, under Void Prophet archetype, the notion that there is nothing protecting VP from the Fort saves required when a collective member dies. While ago I noticed that d20pfsrd was missing the clause that was present in the printed version of the books that I have. Now after the update to the site this clause has also been updated to d20pfsrd, and is as follows:

Hmm... My PDF - the first and so far only official e-version of PoW: E AFAIK - has the exact same text as d20pfsrd. What additional clause does the later printed version have?

I believe the Fort save comes from the Collective feature, which isn't replaced by a VP feature:

"If a member of the collective dies, the member is removed from the collective and the zealot must make a Fortitude save (DC 15) or lose 1 power point for every Hit Die of the fallen member or be sickened for an equal number of rounds."

It is a bit vague, but I believe the end part referring "never losing power points" might be their way of saying, although a bit awkwardly, that Void Prophet would not need to make saves when unwilling members of the collective are reduced to 0 hit points.

While the 1st level benefit of the VP's Hollow Faith you quoted does explicitly address the "lose 1 power point for every Hit Die"-part of Collective, one possible interpretation is that there's nothing protecting the VP from having to save against the sickened effect.

That said, I do very much agree with you that the RAI is pretty obvious, both because the RAI of "or be sickened for an equal number of rounds"-part probably has the addendum "if you have no power points left", and because the VP's recovery and Unwilling Participant mechanics would be ridiculously poor otherwise.

[Sokerimuro]

Spoiler: Quote

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Hmm... My PDF - the first and so far only official e-version of PoW: E AFAIK - has the exact same text as d20pfsrd. What additional clause does the later printed version have?

I believe the Fort save comes from the Collective feature, which isn't replaced by a VP feature:

"If a member of the collective dies, the member is removed from the collective and the zealot must make a Fortitude save (DC 15) or lose 1 power point for every Hit Die of the fallen member or be sickened for an equal number of rounds."

While the 1st level benefit of the VP's Hollow Faith you quoted does explicitly address the "lose 1 power point for every Hit Die"-part of Collective, one possible interpretation is that there's nothing protecting the VP from having to save against the sickened effect.

That said, I do very much agree with you that the RAI is pretty obvious, both because the RAI of "or be sickened for an equal number of rounds"-part probably has the addendum "if you have no power points left", and because the VP's recovery and Unwilling Participant mechanics would be ridiculously poor otherwise.

I was a bit unclear in my post, just realized, pardon me for that :)

What I meant with the original pfsrd clause, was that the

A void prophet never loses power points as a result of an unwilling member of her collective dying.

part was actually missing from d20pfsrd for a good while, originally. I do not have any idea why that was, might have somehow been lost in the copying process from PDF -> website or however. I have both the printed books and PDFs myself and both contained that part, when it was missing from d20pfsrd which now has it also.

Just replied in a thought that if the guide might have been written from that specific Void Prophet part relying to srd text, which quite likely would not have been the case I realize now

And yea, I think the RAI is pretty clear but just as you point out, the RAW in fact still is silly in this regard.

Cheers

[Mithril Leaf]

Hey, in Steelforge 1, there's a power charm which causes your Zeal to last an additional round for a few grand. It's quite handy if you're not rocking Community-Minded.

[upho]

Hey, in Steelforge 1, there's a power charm which causes your Zeal to last an additional round for a few grand. It's quite handy if you're not rocking Community-Minded.

I second this. Mainly because Nelly uses one, of course...

[Mithril Leaf]

I second this. Mainly because Nelly uses one, of course...

Fair enough, but should probably be listed independently.

[Castilonium]

Thanks for the tip about the power charm

I've added a section for charms to the guide, as well as a few more useful items. Also, the start of the equipment section mentions the Variant Rule: Combating Christmas Trees that appears in Steelforge 1.

[Mithril Leaf]

Oh hey, there's a first party large humanoid, The Ved. Now you're all set for Aasimars, Skinwalkers, and Tieflings even if the GM doesn't like Akashic Mysteries.

[upho]

Oh hey, there's a first party large humanoid, The Ved. Now you're all set for Aasimars, Skinwalkers, and Tieflings even if the GM doesn't like Akashic Mysteries.

Eh? I don't see the ved being a player race, which is kinda the big thing (pun intended) with the gamla. There's tons of 1pp large or larger humanoids. Like all giants, for starters.

[Mithril Leaf]

Eh? I don't see the ved being a player race, which is kinda the big thing (pun intended) with the gamla. There's tons of 1pp large or larger humanoids. Like all giants, for starters.

EDIT: I'm a dummy, however there is actually the Shobhad, which is a player race.

[upho]

EDIT: I'm a dummy, however there is actually the Shobhad, which is a player race.

The problem here is that it's a monstrous race with a whopping 29 RP. I think pretty few games allow advanced races, and far fewer still monstrous races. The gamla is on the other hand rather well balanced to the core races, even though using it for size heritage shenanigans may not be.

[Mithril Leaf]

The problem here is that it's a monstrous race with a whopping 29 RP. I think pretty few games allow advanced races, and far fewer still monstrous races. The gamla is on the other hand rather well balanced to the core races, even though using it for size heritage shenanigans may not be.

Well yeah but we're only using it for size heritage shenanigans, so isn't that the important part?

[upho]

Well yeah but we're only using it for size heritage shenanigans, so isn't that the important part?

Oh, totally agree. I was thinking more in terms of how restrictions on PC options seem to be set up in most games. That is, content that come with special GM permission notes are most often flat out banned, regardless of the specific context or manner a player would like to use such content.

That said, I'd guess most GMs allowing DSP material to begin with are more likely to judge things on a case-by-case basis.

[Mithril Leaf]

Oh baby do I have a juicy tidbit for this guide! In Psionics Augmented: Host of Heroes, there is the titular Aegis archetype, which gains access to a special role system. One role they have available to them is the Marshal. The Marshal possesses the following ability:

(In regards to the custom Astral Suit of the Marshal)
At 2nd level, while you wear this astral suit,
you can take 10 on checks made with the aid another
action, and you increase the bonus granted when you use
the aid another action by +2.

Which is actually incredible for the Zealot. It's already basically a free sweet dip, this makes it super good.

[Wartex1]

Could one possibly do a Dread Multiclass with the Huntsmaster archetype to get access to a spooky ghost wolf collective and that roar feat which frightens all enemies in 60 foot radius?

[Castilonium]

Oh baby do I have a juicy tidbit for this guide! In Psionics Augmented: Host of Heroes, there is the titular Aegis archetype, which gains access to a special role system. One role they have available to them is the Marshal. The Marshal possesses the following ability:

(In regards to the custom Astral Suit of the Marshal)
At 2nd level, while you wear this astral suit,
you can take 10 on checks made with the aid another
action, and you increase the bonus granted when you use
the aid another action by +2.

Which is actually incredible for the Zealot. It's already basically a free sweet dip, this makes it super good.

You're right, this is an incredible dip for Zealots! I didn't know about this, thank you for the heads up

Could one possibly do a Dread Multiclass with the Huntsmaster archetype to get access to a spooky ghost wolf collective and that roar feat which frightens all enemies in 60 foot radius?

On its own, it's not a very good dip. A Wild Huntmaster's hunting pack's hp and attack bonus scale from class levels, so they'll fall behind as you level up. You have to spend actions making your hunting pack do things, which you'd rather use on maneuvers. The Dread's low level class features and chassis aren't great, either.

Pack Howl is potentially useful in that you can use it to fear-lock all enemies within 60 feet by doing the same thing every turn, and not fear your allies in your collective. Grab Jailer of the Damned (Eternal Guardian 5), Inarguable Presence of the Sleeping Goddess (Sleeping Goddess 5), or the Black Seraph Annihilation style feat to ignore fear immunity. But if you're going that crazy with aoe fear lockdown, you may as well get Black Seraph's Glare and Soulless Gaze, and spam Circle of Razor Feathers or Silver Crane's Spiral with a longbow.

[FabulousChester]

How would you rate Drow if a GM is allowing the Elf favored class bonus apply to them? Curious because my GM is, and I just wanted to weigh options. Also to add is I'll be taking the alternative trait that trades darkvision and light blindness for lowlight.

[upho]

How would you rate Drow if a GM is allowing the Elf favored class bonus apply to them? Curious because my GM is, and I just wanted to weigh options.

I'd say the elf FCB makes the drow about as good as the elf, and I'd rate it blue. I think perfect stats and the best FCB alone is enough to guarantee at least a blue rating. The elf's weapon familiarity is much better for zealots, but the trait itself isn't particularly unique or valuable anyways if you can take a COWPIS, and the drow SLAs can be pretty neat during lower levels.

Also to add is I'll be taking the alternative trait that trades darkvision and light blindness for lowlight.

From a pure optimization perspective, this is a bad trade in most campaigns IME. You'll rarely be fighting in bright light, but often in darkness. In addition, darkvision synergizes really well with other drow traits, setting you up for making a very competent scout with less additional investment.

[Vhaidara]

a COWPIS

*raises hand*

A wat?

[Mithril Leaf]

*raises hand*

A wat?

Cracked Opalescent White Pyramid Ioun Stone. Makes an exotic weapon count as martial for 1500 gp.

[upho]

*raises hand*

A wat?

Cracked Opalescent White Pyramid Ioun Stone. Makes an exotic weapon count as martial for 1500 gp.

Mr Leaf be down with da lingo.

On topic, if you take that COWPIS in a wayfinder for an additional 500 gp, you can get Weapon Focus as well! Just mind what you're drinking before you do; you may very well have to live with the smell of that wayfinder for a long time...

[jff362]

Rereading the guide as I make a high level Zealot and once again super impressed and grateful. Thanks for all the thought and time you put into this!

I just noticed the psionic weapon enhancements, mindfeeder and bodyfeeder. They're both pricey, but seem great for the right zealot.

Mindfeeder has some real limitations (1/day, only after you score a crit, only refills to your max PP, and they only last 10 minutes)...but even with those caveats, the chance to add 50+ PP to your pool seems pretty worth the cost.

Bodyfeeder granting THP isn't quite as exciting...but the fact that it's free on every crit and can go above your max HP makes it seem great for a tank as well.

What are your thoughts?

[Castilonium]

Rereading the guide as I make a high level Zealot and once again super impressed and grateful. Thanks for all the thought and time you put into this!

I just noticed the psionic weapon enhancements, mindfeeder and bodyfeeder. They're both pricey, but seem great for the right zealot.

Mindfeeder has some real limitations (1/day, only after you score a crit, only refills to your max PP, and they only last 10 minutes)...but even with those caveats, the chance to add 50+ PP to your pool seems pretty worth the cost.

Bodyfeeder granting THP isn't quite as exciting...but the fact that it's free on every crit and can go above your max HP makes it seem great for a tank as well.

What are your thoughts?

I'm glad you like the guide and find it helpful

I'd say a big red nope on Bodyfeeder for several reasons. There are ways to get a lot of THP already, like with Martial Power, or with various Radiant Dawn maneuvers. Radiant Dawn Sunlight in particular is amazing for stacking THP. And if you're maximizing Golden Lion Command, well, see the Bronze Boar build. Bodyfeeder benefits from having a lot of attacks per round so you can crit-fish. Zealots are bad at crit-fishing. Most Zealots only attack once per round, and if they attack more often, it's with AoOs or a rare multi-target strike. You'd need to get a COWPIS, wield a fauchard, and either spend another precious +1 enhancement on keen or a feat on improved critical to make the most of that. Also, money spent on this +3 enhancement is money not spent on a simple +3 for 15% more accuracy. Too much investment for too little reward.

Mindfeeder is interesting, but highly unreliable. It has the same high investment cost as Bodyfeeder, and you also have to be low on PP to get the most value from it. I think a simple +3 enhancement bonus will be better.

There are a few maneuvers that lets you crit very easily: Twisting Wind Shot (Solar Wind 6) and Hunting Zephyr (Tempest Gale 7), but they have a few problems. They only allow ranged weapons, and they don't have any helpful riders. And even then, a Zealot will deal low damage compared to other characters with the crit because they have no class features that increase raw damage and probably won't take Deadly Aim. They'd have to get all of their damage from enhancement bonus, strength if using a bow, and buffs. Low damage means low THP or PP with the feeder enhancements.

If you're level 15, you can use Armaments of the Empire (Radiant Dawn 3) to slap one of these enhancements on your weapon for free, but you still have to land the crit. And there are so many good stances out there by level 15 that it raises the question of why you aren't using those instead.

So in short, they're not very good for most Zealots. But I'm sure a dedicated build could make decent use of them. It'd give a lot more PP for Martyrdoms at high levels, but Martyrdom can be overwhelmed by multiple attacks towards the same ally.

[jff362]

Thanks for your thoughts on Body and Mindfeeder.

I noticed your guide's entry for Woedrinker says " You have good social skills, so you should be able to convince your friends and psicrystal to let you curse them every so often."

Note that Woedrinker says "for each cursed opponent" (my emphasis). Unless PoW defines it differently, I'm pretty certain that one's allies can't be counted as opponents.