How would OotS fare in different mediums?

[Magentamist]

What would OotS be like if it was adapted to different mediums? How would the story, humor, and action change in translation?

My thoughts:

-Written book: Since a lot of the humor is visual, this probably wouldn't work. As well, the action sequences would probably be a lot less interesting, since most are fairly short.
-Animated series: This could be very good. All the snarking and one-liners would be even funnier with good voice actors, and sound effects could really improve the fight scenes.
-Live action series/movie: Eh... nah. Without Giant's unique drawing style, I think a lot of the charm would be lost. And, y'know, there's the massive special-effects budget such a production would need.
-Video game: This has been discussed in other threads recently, but I think OotS could do well as a Final Fantasy-like RPG. The combat mechanics could be a lot of fun, and there's a good amount of plot and character development too.

[kivzirrum]

Given OotS’s origins, I think maybe a western style RPG would fit better. Like an old Gold Box game or something. Of course I think OotS is perfect in the medium it’s currently presented in, but if it were theoretically adapted, I’d hate to see it as anything other than a video game with minimal or no voice acting. Animation or live action would have to give voice to the characters, and personally I’m not keen on that.

[Manga Shoggoth]

-Written book: Since a lot of the humor is visual, this probably wouldn't work. As well, the action sequences would probably be a lot less interesting, since most are fairly short.

You'd think that, but it isn't always true. The Girl Genius novel adaptations, for example, are hilarious, and very, very close to the source material. It depends an awful lot on the skill of the person doing the novelisation.

-Animated series: This could be very good. All the snarking and one-liners would be even funnier with good voice actors, and sound effects could really improve the fight scenes.

I mostly agree, but I don't think that the art style would translate well into animation. It works well static, but even then it took some time for me to get used to it (and I came in in the middle, when the style had already improved on the original comics).

If you are prepared to let go of the art style then it could work well.

-Live action series/movie: Eh... nah. Without Giant's unique drawing style, I think a lot of the charm would be lost. And, y'know, there's the massive special-effects budget such a production would need.

Given that you would have to let go of the art style I don't think it would be any worse than an animation, and animation is expensive to start with. And I don't think you would need much more in effects than a normal superhero/sci-fi movie.

-Video game: This has been discussed in other threads recently, but I think OotS could do well as a Final Fantasy-like RPG. The combat mechanics could be a lot of fun, and there's a good amount of plot and character development too.

There are several ways OOTS could work, but RPG is the obvious one, given its roots.

Aside:

The skill in adaptation is moving a story from one medium to another while still keeping the spirit of the story in place. It is why I generally judge an adaptation by two questions: Is this a good film/book/comic/game in its own right, and is it a faithful adaptation of the source material.

If the adaption is very good in its own right I can sometimes give it a pass - That's why I can like some early Disney stuff like Jungle Book, because although they are pale imitations of the source material, they are still very good if you are not familiar with the source (and let's face it, still quite good if you are...).

The other thing to remember is that in going to - say - film or TV, you are aiming for a much wider audience, not just the die-hard OOTS fans.

[KillingAScarab]

After seeing the designs for the adidas x (they don't seem to like capital letters...) Dragon Ball Z sneakers, I am curious if Roy or Vaarsuvius could be represented that way.

What would OotS be like if it was adapted to different mediums? How would the story, humor, and action change in translation?

My thoughts:
...
-Live action series/movie: Eh... nah. Without Giant's unique drawing style, I think a lot of the charm would be lost. And, y'know, there's the massive special-effects budget such a production would need.

Given that you would have to let go of the art style I don't think it would be any worse than an animation, and animation is expensive to start with. And I don't think you would need much more in effects than a normal superhero/sci-fi movie.

Well, just think of what you would need to spend to remove all the shadows, except for the MitD's. Otherwise, the King of Nowhere assassins don't pay off, and they're clearly the most important element of the story.

Aside:

The skill in adaptation is moving a story from one medium to another while still keeping the spirit of the story in place. It is why I generally judge an adaptation by two questions: Is this a good film/book/comic/game in its own right, and is it a faithful adaptation of the source material.

If the adaption is very good in its own right I can sometimes give it a pass - That's why I can like some early Disney stuff like Jungle Book, because although they are pale imitations of the source material, they are still very good if you are not familiar with the source (and let's face it, still quite good if you are...).

The other thing to remember is that in going to - say - film or TV, you are aiming for a much wider audience, not just the die-hard OOTS fans.

Aside? Nah, that is wholly relevant. People who already work in a given medium aren't going to be interested in the adaptation if while doing so they're not able to do what their medium does well. And it bears repeating that the story shouldn't just be for the people who are already familiar with it.

[gooddragon1]

I wonder how they'd do in 40k... right in front of the palace of the Golden throne >:D

[Lacuna Caster]

-Animated series: This could be very good. All the snarking and one-liners would be even funnier with good voice actors, and sound effects could really improve the fight scenes.
-Live action series/movie: Eh... nah. Without Giant's unique drawing style, I think a lot of the charm would be lost. And, y'know, there's the massive special-effects budget such a production would need.

Lindsay Ellis did a video essay on Disney's Hercules a while back, which I think is a pretty good approximation of my feelings on OOTS' flaws and virtues, and might give some idea of how an animated/big-budget adaptation might go down.

There are some aspects of OOTS I love- the major villains are excellent, the banter is often good, and there's some genuine poignancy in some of the drama- but I also think there's some questionable characterisation, wonky plot logic and tonal dissonance to deal with.

[Syncro]

I mostly agree, but I don't think that the art style would translate well into animation. It works well static, but even then it took some time for me to get used to it (and I came in in the middle, when the style had already improved on the original comics).

If you are prepared to let go of the art style then it could work well.



Given that you would have to let go of the art style I don't think it would be any worse than an animation, and animation is expensive to start with. And I don't think you would need much more in effects than a normal superhero/sci-fi movie.



.

OOTs could use its art style to an advantage. It's true that animation takes a ton of cash and effort, but I think it would be easier in the long run to animate OOTs because artists could focus more on the animation and emotions rather than the details. There also would have to be much shading which would save more time.

The OOTs style does take some getting used to, but so do a lot of art styles(espcially cartoony ones). One virtue OOTs as is that there's not a lot of professional TV programs that look like OOTs right now(Cyanide and Happiness is the sole example I can think of rn). Because of this, OOTs has the potential to be a novelty in the TV domain.

[Manga Shoggoth]

One virtue OOTs as is that there's not a lot of professional TV programs that look like OOTs right now(Cyanide and Happiness is the sole example I can think of rn).

And, worryingly, Peppa Pig...

[Bohandas]

-Video game: This has been discussed in other threads recently, but I think OotS could do well as a Final Fantasy-like RPG. The combat mechanics could be a lot of fun, and there's a good amount of plot and character development too.

Or possibly something using some version of the chassis from Temple of Elemental Evil or the Krynn Series. ToEE uses D&D 3.5e rules and the Krynn games use (2e) D&D rules AND stick figures

EDIT:
On a more readily doable note it would be pretty simple to mod some of the more generic baddies in as enemies in Dungeons of Dredmor. Extremely simple if you know enough about drawing, animation, and photomanipulation to make an attack sprite without having to find, screengrab, and crop out the background of a different preexisistig picture of a generic OotS goblin in a different position for each frame

[Lacuna Caster]

EDIT:
On a more readily doable note it would be pretty simple to mod some of the more generic baddies in as enemies in Dungeons of Dredmor. Extremely simple if you know enough about drawing, animation, and photomanipulation to make an attack sprite without having to find, screengrab, and crop out the background of a different preexisistig picture of a generic OotS goblin in a different position for each frame

You don't even need to do the art from scratch. The .pdf versions of the OOTS books open fine in Inkscape, and you can extract the character poses from there.

[woweedd]

Lindsay Ellis did a video essay on Disney's Hercules a while back, which I think is a pretty good approximation of my feelings on OOTS' flaws and virtues, and might give some idea of how an animated/big-budget adaptation might go down.

There are some aspects of OOTS I love- the major villains are excellent, the banter is often good, and there's some genuine poignancy in some of the drama- but I also think there's some questionable characterisation, wonky plot logic and tonal dissonance to deal with.

What precisely do you mean? Remember, we're talking an adaptation here, not a full rewrite.

[brian 333]

I think an RPG would have to tell some other story than the one we've been reading if for no other reason than everyone will know that jumping on the dragon is the only way to activate Roy's Legendary Weapon feats.

An RPG with a different story might as well be an MMO like Star Trek with a railroad story and a sandbox between episode updates. Give the kiddies some side quests they can team up on during the down times.

Either way, without the art, (the characters are already rendered in 3D!) what's the point of an OotS themed RPG? Stick figures are genius. I can see players spending hours in the character tailor getting just the look they want, except... hey, what do you mean Nale's beard is a premium selection? What moron tied an in game feature to an out of game purchase? I hate OotsMMORPG!

Oh, here's a similar goatee and 'stash, it's okay.

OotS would do well in any print medium because Rich is a good writer. I'm sure a bad writer could screw it up in conversion, but he'd really have to try.

Which brings to mind:
OotS: The Musical!

Miko would have to be a Soprano because her final aria requires a sustained high G at the end. V could be performed by an alto or a tenor, but Roy is a basso profundo.

[Finagle]

Fun fact: OOTS spinoff comic Our Little Adventure has a related RPG in development - by the creator! Here's what some of the monsters look like.

[Lacuna Caster]

What precisely do you mean? Remember, we're talking an adaptation here, not a full rewrite.

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My perspective on this relative to other fans is a little idiosyncratic, but if you watch the full video I think there a lot of similarities. Off the top of my head, Hercules is analogous to Roy/Elan, in that Roy's primary motive is foisted on him externally and Elan's primary flaw is clumsiness. There are a lot of 4th-wall pop culture references, and the get-rich segment of the plot is kind of similar to Haley's attachment to wealth that never really goes anywhere. The complicated female frenemy that actually has a more compelling arc than the central character, possibly analagous to Miko/Therkla. The charismatic comedic villain who has no actual enmity with the hero in Xykon/Hades. The gaping inconsistencies and plot holes. The cartoon physics and wacky wordplay that abut directly on grimdark melodrama. And last but not least, **** Phil.

[Lacuna Caster]

To be clear, there are plenty of people who loved Hercules, and while it wasn't the most successful of Disney flicks, that's not a trivial audience in absolute terms. Probably large enough that you could sustain a lower-budget TV or film franchise. And I'm pretty sure the author would be first to admit that the early strip in particular could benefit from a rewrite or two, so I'm not saying all these problems are insurmountable.

But I think there are some other structural flaws within the story that would be difficult to excise without major renovations of the edifice. In my limitless arrogance I do have some thoughts on the subject, but I, well.. I won't get into it here.

[brian 333]

But I think there are some other structural flaws within the story that would be difficult to excise without major renovations of the edifice. In my limitless arrogance I do have some thoughts on the subject, but I, well.. I won't get into it here.

Why would you want to? Leonardo rarely finished anything because he was never satisfied with the end result. Confederacy of Dunces was published aftef the author's death because he was never satisfied with it. Rewrites and revisions may make a work better but it takes the author backwards, not forwards.

I am far more interested in what The Giant wants to do next than how he would redo what he's already done. Now, if The Giant follows his muse and she takes him back to page 1, that's his business.

But the beginning strips are also an artifact of their time. Redoing them ruins that by ripping them out of that peculiar point of view and imposing our current point of view as the 'correct' one.This is, in my opinion, a mistake, because art is a snapshot of culture at a particular place and time. Revisions ruin that.

In reading this comic one undertakes a journey from what was to what is now. We see not only the evolution of stories and characters, but of an artist. This is what I call accidental genius: the idea to do something mundane which, at another level than originally intended, creates something great. That's what we lose through revision.

If the author decides to do OotS in another medium then it too will be a product of its time; but, I rather hope he decides to go in another direction. I'm sure, whatever he does, it will be great even if it's not what I'd do.

[littlebum2002]

To be clear, there are plenty of people who loved Hercules, and while it wasn't the most successful of Disney flicks, that's not a trivial audience in absolute terms.

Wait...there are people who don't love Hercules? I've certainly not met any. I've always thought it was similar to Emperor's New Groove: Everyone loves it even though it didn't make money.

Either way, we need a shoutout to Hades who is one of the best Disney villains of all time.

[Shulk]

-Video game: This has been discussed in other threads recently, but I think OotS could do well as a Final Fantasy-like RPG. The combat mechanics could be a lot of fun, and there's a good amount of plot and character development too.

To be honest, I would enjoy to see an OOTS Video game, but I'd say go for a strategy rpg , something like dragon age, something like xenoblade chronicles, or otherwise something more interactive, Although turn based could in theory work. I personally believe that an OOTS game with gameplay similar to xenoblade chronicles would be AMAZING, But there's a lot of personal bias, and Im not sure I can explain the gameplay the best right now... Anyways, OOTS video game? I'd pay for that.

[woweedd]

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My perspective on this relative to other fans is a little idiosyncratic, but if you watch the full video I think there a lot of similarities. Off the top of my head, Hercules is analogous to Roy/Elan, in that Roy's primary motive is foisted on him externally and Elan's primary flaw is clumsiness. There are a lot of 4th-wall pop culture references, and the get-rich segment of the plot is kind of similar to Haley's attachment to wealth that never really goes anywhere. The complicated female frenemy that actually has a more compelling arc than the central character, possibly analagous to Miko/Therkla. The charismatic comedic villain who has no actual enmity with the hero in Xykon/Hades. The gaping inconsistencies and plot holes. The cartoon physics and wacky wordplay that abut directly on grimdark melodrama. And last but not least, **** Phil.

In order, and bullet-list form;

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. The fact that Roy's primary motive is foisted on to him from outside is kinda the point. Roy's character arc, at least, early-on, is entirely about getting over the need for Eugene's approval, fighting Xykon because he wants to stop a threat to the world, not because it might finally earn him the affection he never got from his father growing up. I think that's part of why Roy's death is so important to his arc. He totally could have just backed out there, but he doesn't, because he gives a crap about saving the world. Eugene, whose only motive is his own personal gain vis-a-vis getting into The Afterlife, totally WOULD have just backed out there, and, indeed, backed out long before that, but Roy won't.

. Elan's primarily flaw isn't "cluminess", it's being immature, overly-naive, and relying too much on adherence to cliche, even when it makes no sense. The whole Tarquin arc is about Elan dealing with all of that. Facing the reality that his family won't just get magically fixed. That his father is a cruel dictator who can't be redeemed. As for the adherence to tropes...Tarquin is meant to show Elan what his Genre-Savvy could lead to when taken too far. Is there really that much day-light between Elan forcing Roy to wait until the last second to jump away from an exploding castle in order to look cool, and Tarquin killing people who refuse to follow his ideas about how the story "should" go?

. Haley's attachment to wealth doesn't really go anywhere because it doesn't really need to. Her main character flaw isn't greed, it's mistrust and paranoia, and that totally did go somewhere. Heck, the costs of paranoia and not trusting anyone beyond your own family was a main theme of Book 5, from Ian rotting in a jail cell because he refuses to trust Elan, to Girand's Gate falling specifically because having only his own family guarding it means that they were all taken out by one Epic-Level Spell. That's kinda the theme of Book 5. Family, and how, ultimately, your real family isn't who you're relating to, but whomever you can trust.

. I didn't really find Therlka's arc that interesting. She's honestly more intriguing for the impact she has on Elan's character then anything. Which, granted, is troublesome, and makes her kindof a "WOman in The Fridge", but i digress.

. Miko...Yeah, fair. Whatever your feelings on her, not positive in my case, you can't deny, the fact that we're STILL talking about her, 10 years after her death, is proof that she's a fascinating character.

. Xykon's enmity with Roy is, well, mainly that he wants to destroy the world. I'll admit that he's not that interesting, but he doesn't really need to be. There's a reason that Recloak is the main character of SOD, not Xykon. Redcloak and MITD more than pick up the slack,in the development department, compared to Xykon.

. I'm not sure on the plot holes. Can you be more specific?

. The mood whiplash..yeah, fair. I don't personally find it a big deal, and it's pretty well-handled in my opinion, but I can see how it would be off-putting.

. Yeah, I agree, screw Phil.

[Bohandas]

Wait...there are people who don't love Hercules? I've certainly not met any. I've always thought it was similar to Emperor's New Groove: Everyone loves it even though it didn't make money.

Either way, we need a shoutout to Hades who is one of the best Disney villains of all time.

I didn't like Emperor's New Groove. I liked Hercules but I didn't like Emperor's New Groove.

I think the people who didn't like Hercules were mad that they bowdlerized Hercules' parentage; apparently not realizing that this spared us from having yet another cliche evil queen in disney's villain gallery

[Lacuna Caster]

Why would you want to? Leonardo rarely finished anything because he was never satisfied with the end result. Confederacy of Dunces was published after the author's death because he was never satisfied with it. Rewrites and revisions may make a work better but it takes the author backwards, not forwards.

Yeah, but we were discussing the hypothetical question of how to adapt OOTS to different media, which is probably going to entail a certain amount of rewriting regardless.

In order, and bullet-list form;

I'm not saying it's a perfect 1-to-1 mapping, and I've covered some of this elsewhere, so I'll try to keep this brief and just touch on two points:

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Saving the world is not selfless when the world contains you, and there really is nowhere to hide from a soul-reaving abomination that can slay the very Gods. (Haley actually goes so far as to state some of this explicitly.) And the supposedly big moments in Roy's arc don't actually tell you anything new about his motives.

Haley is an ostensibly Chaotic Good character, which means she actually needs some kind of concrete justification for her overwhelming greed. But I can't recall an occasion when the Order needing to ration their funds proved to be a major bottleneck to their mission, and the sum total of the resources she spends on attempting to liberate Ian was one potion of glibness donated by Elan. For someone who represents the Rogue-as-philanthropist, she's awfully comfortable staying in the 1%. (I'm also not terribly convinced that she was pathologically deceitful prior to the Inn scene. Sure, she conceals some embarrassing facts about her childhood, swindles her teammates and isn't exactly straight with Miko, but that's just rationally self-interested, not crazy-paranoid. I mean, it's not like Roy has been a paragon of self-disclosure, and he never lost control of his language centres.)

[Fyraltari]

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Saving the world is not selfless when the world contains you, and there really is nowhere to hide from a soul-reaving abomination that can slay the very Gods. (Haley actually goes so far as to state some of this explicitly.) And the supposedly big moments in Roy's arc don't actually tell you anything new about his motives.

Haley is an ostensibly Chaotic Good character, which means she actually needs some kind of concrete justification for her overwhelming greed. But I can't recall an occasion when the Order needing to ration their funds proved to be a major bottleneck to their mission, and the sum total of the resources she spends on attempting to liberate Ian was one potion of glibness donated by Elan. For someone who represents the Rogue-as-philanthropist, she's awfully comfortable staying in the 1%. (I'm also not terribly convinced that she was pathologically deceitful prior to the Inn scene. Sure, she conceals some embarrassing facts about her childhood, swindles her teammates and isn't exactly straight with Miko, but that's just rationally self-interested, not crazy-paranoid. I mean, it's not like Roy has been a paragon of self-disclosure, and he never lost control of his language centres.)

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Roy is taking great personnal risks, though. It has been mentionned several times that he isn't the only one gunning for Xykon, just the one who happens to be the protagonist. Xykon is not out to destroy the world just turnit into a dictatorship. He could have taken Xykon up on his offer to wait until he gained half a dozen levels before fighting him. As far as Roy knows the only difference that would make is number of people Xykon would murder before finally biting the dust. To be willing to die to reduce that number is selfless.

Haley is not as paranoid as Ian is, that's for sure, but she was headed there. Her problem was that she was letting her fear of opening up dominate her every actions. She did not have a single friend until the order (the only person she was honest with is the one she hated). Her overcoming that fear is the reason she confessed to (who she thought was) Elan. Without that she would probably have ended up worse than Ian: a lonely old lady yearning for affection but rejecting everyone. And greed, or rather avarice, is but a symptom of her overly cautious nature. Avaricious people in real life don't hoard money for money's sake (well she does but her money fetish is mostly a gag), they do it "just in case".

[Lacuna Caster]

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Roy is taking great personnal risks, though. It has been mentionned several times that he isn't the only one gunning for Xykon, just the one who happens to be the protagonist. Xykon is not out to destroy the world just turnit into a dictatorship. He could have taken Xykon up on his offer to wait until he gained half a dozen levels before fighting him. As far as Roy knows the only difference that would make is number of people Xykon would murder before finally biting the dust. To be willing to die to reduce that number is selfless.

Haley is not as paranoid as Ian is, that's for sure, but she was headed there. Her problem was that she was letting her fear of opening up dominate her every actions. She did not have a single friend until the order (the only person she was honest with is the one she hated). Her overcoming that fear is the reason she confessed to (who she thought was) Elan. Without that she would probably have ended up worse than Ian: a lonely old lady yearning for affection but rejecting everyone. And greed, or rather avarice, is but a symptom of her overly cautious nature. Avaricious people in real life don't hoard money for money's sake (well she does but her money fetish is mostly a gag), they do it "just in case".

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But we already knew back in Wooden Forest and during the Ogre fight that Roy was willing to risk himself to save individual people. A person willing to die for one person is presumably willing to die to save millions of them. This is not exactly breaking news, altruism-wise.

I just don't see great evidence, prior to her aphasia, that Haley was actually allowing suspicion and deceit to dominate all her actions. She elects to stay with the group when Miko arrests them, thanks to Durkon appealing to her greed, she talks frankly about her reasons for helping the dirt farmers with Elan, and she was one who actively suggested cooperating with the goblin teens. It's entirely an informed attribute shoehorned into her backstory with sock-puppet monologues, not an organic character progression.

[hamishspence]

I just don't see great evidence, prior to her aphasia, that Haley was actually allowing suspicion and deceit to dominate all her actions.

Haley's unwillingness to admit her love for Elan is established:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0184.html

hence, her admitting it to him, being the thing that breaks the aphasic "spell".

Haley is an ostensibly Chaotic Good character, which means she actually needs some kind of concrete justification for her overwhelming greed.

Actually she doesn't. The Giant established in Origin of PCs that Haley was a "greedy thief" before she ever needed money to rescue her father.

The Good part is her willingness to help others in need, like the dirt farmers, at personal risk to her own safety.

[Lacuna Caster]

Haley's unwillingness to admit her love for Elan is established:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0184.html

Yeah, but that's one thing on one occasion. It's not a sustained pattern of behaviour that would logically culminate in the language centres of her brain being scrambled. Unlike, for example, actually leaving the party, refusing to cooperate with possibly-dangerous strangers, covertly investigating her own allies, or spinning an ever-mounting web of gratuitous confabulations about her motives and background that eventually falls apart under the weight of it's own contradictions.

...Just as an example. But Haley doesn't do any of that. All I see here is a girl with a crush who's nervous about it. That's normal.

[Fyraltari]

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But we already knew back in Wooden Forest and during the Ogre fight that Roy was willing to risk himself to save individual people. A person willing to die for one person is presumably willing to die to save millions of them. This is not exactly breaking news, altruism-wise.

I just don't see great evidence, prior to her aphasia, that Haley was actually allowing suspicion and deceit to dominate all her actions. She elects to stay with the group when Miko arrests them, thanks to Durkon appealing to her greed, she talks frankly about her reasons for helping the dirt farmers with Elan, and she was one who actively suggested cooperating with the goblin teens. It's entirely an informed attribute shoehorned into her backstory with sock-puppet monologues, not an organic character progression.

There's a difference between saving a friend teammate that was in danger because of what you did and saving unknown people.

These are mostly strategical decisions (she is explicitly manipulating the goblins "it's abig cry for attention but it can work in our favor" and using Miko as a free buffet before she can escape) and superficial ("it was fun beating the ogres and the farmers don't have anything to take" looks like a rationalization of "I couldn't bear to let them in this situation" to me)
I'll agree that it looks like The Giant decided to retroactively put more emphasis on it but "secretful and greedy" is part of the rogue stereotype she embodied earlier on.

[hamishspence]

The decision to make "Haley keeps secrets excessively" a factor in her aphasia:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0303.html

does make a certain amount of sense. She never tells anyone about the Ian thing, until she's actually on the Western Continent.

[Lacuna Caster]

The Good part is her willingness to help others in need, like the dirt farmers, at personal risk to her own safety.

Yes, except that parting with a significant fraction of her gold could help others in need quite efficiently. She lives in a world where most people live on 1 silver piece per day. Robbing from the rich is not a heroic act unless you're giving to the poor.

She never tells anyone about the Ian thing, until she's actually on the Western Continent.

Which would be convincing if she went to any extraordinary lengths to get Ian out. But she never does: She talks to some guards, walks into prison, and then waltzes out again, sans Ian, at zero effective cost. In order for not-talking-about-Ian to be a big deal, her desire to rescue Ian kind of has to be a big deal too. But it's only ever handled as an incidental chore tacked on to getting Roy back from the arena.

There's a difference between saving a friend teammate that was in danger because of what you did and saving unknown people.

Such as the dirt farmers, or whoever might have been endangered by assassins at the Inn?

As an aside, it's also not particularly obvious to me that waiting to gain a few levels would have benefited Roy's effort to slay Xykon. Xykon as God-Emperor of the world, ensconced in his obsidian fortress and surrounded by ten thousand honour guards, does not strike me as a convenient future target, and if he's wiping out the Sexy Sylphs, I imagine that bodes poorly for the Snide Swordswingers.

[hamishspence]

She talks to some guards, walks into prison, and then waltzes out again, sans Ian, at zero effective cost. In order for not-talking-about-Ian to be a big deal, her desire to rescue Ian kind of has to be a big deal too. But it's only ever handled as an incidental chore tacked on to getting Roy back from the arena.

At the time - she believed that she'd have to pay to get Ian out - as established in Origin of PCs. Hence her not spending any more money on others that she has to. She even tricks her own party members into giving her a greater share of the treasure.

Now, however, she's prepared to have Ian be the subject of a jailbreak, instead of buying him free - because she's a lot higher level now (and has higher-level allies in a position to break Ian out - Roy & Belkar), and thinks that its viable.

[Fyraltari]

Such as the dirt farmers, or whoever might have been endangered by assassins at the Inn?

As an aside, it's also not particularly obvious to me that waiting to gain a few levels would have benefited Roy's effort to slay Xykon. Xykon as God-Emperor of the world, ensconced in his obsidian fortress and surrounded by ten thousand honour guards, does not strike me as a convenient future target, and if he's wiping out the Sexy Sylphs, I imagine that bodes poorly for the Snide Swordswingers.

These are good points, I'll think about it some more.