Belkar vs. Roy (DEATHMATCH)

[Enso]

Hey y'all! So I did a quick search of the forum and didn't find anything on this topic, so I'm wondering:

Who wins between Roy and Belkar in a knock-out beat-down brawl? I'm wondering from a mechanical and character perspective, rather than any kind of in-story logic (since obviously, this is pretty far from the path we're on right now). Assuming both characters have access to all their peak equipment and abilities, and they're absolutely willing to kill each other to get the job done. Any thoughts on how that might play out?

My money's on Roy, from a gut feeling, but I don't know much about the mechanics of D&D, levels and powers, strengths and weaknesses, etc. Also, has this ever happened in the comic or bonus material? I don't remember any real combat between them, but I know a lot of you are much more familiar with the backlog than I.

[Doctor West]

I'm hardly an expert on 3.5, but the knowledge I do have and my gut say Roy. He's estimated to have very good stats all around and is about as solid as a single class Fighter can ever be, and his Weapon of Legacy as it's shown in the comic gives him a major edge as well. Belkar meanwhile is a Small sized melee character using Two Weapon Fighting, which leaves him in the position of trying to whittle down Roy's massive number of HP with a thousand pinpricks. Raging with his one whole Barbarian level doesn't seem to change the math much either.

Environment could play a factor though, like say a crowded castle with lots of things to throw. Belkar vs Miko has shown us he's willing and able to be a sneaky little bastard when facing someone he knows he can't take on head to head.

[hroþila]

The gladiatorial training scene was a good indication of how this would go down, IMO.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Does this all under the blanket sort of ban on vs threads?

Either way: Roy, except possibly if the vampire business left him so level drained Belkar is way ahead of him now. Roy's build is more about doing lots of damage against a single enemy, like seen with Thog or the reason he's build this way: Xykon, while Belkar is good at messing with lots of enemies, like in Azure city or with the thieves guild.

[Fyraltari]

Belkar is mowing machine perfect for crowd control of hordes of low-level ennemies but he looses on one-on-one (except arguably with Miko). Roy tends to win his boss battles, so to speak.

Now why did Belkar beat Miko ? Because he used her anger to force her to chase him into traps and distractions. Roy has gotten really good at not falling for this kind of trick and keeping his eyes on the bigger picture. If Belkar tried to used the environment (a tactic Roy himself tends to use) he'd retreat to safer ground and goad Belkar (who has much poorer self control) into open attack and get him.

My money is on Roy.

[zimmerwald1915]

I'm going to dance on your grave, you know.

[Lacuna Caster]

Now why did Belkar beat Miko ? Because he used her anger to force her to chase him into traps and distractions.

Miko's mistake here was refusing to get help from the other paladins/clerics, but I don't think she had much alternative to chasing her quarry wherever he decided to go. Belkar on the loose was quite capable of butchering other random innocents just to goad her on. And she actually, you know, won, despite some unusual factors.

[Dr.Zero]

Who wins between Roy and Belkar in a knock-out beat-down brawl? I'm wondering from a mechanical and character perspective, rather than any kind of in-story logic (since obviously, this is pretty far from the path we're on right now). Assuming both characters have access to all their peak equipment and abilities, and they're absolutely willing to kill each other to get the job done. Any thoughts on how that might play out?

Right now Roy has access to a +5 magic sword which heals and gives distance attacks.
Moreover my impression is that he cheated with the dice when he rolled his stats, getting all 18s in his main stats and 16s in his other stats (with maybe the exception of dex, as his dump stat).
So Belkar has pretty much no chance.

[Fyraltari]

Miko's mistake here was refusing to get help from the other paladins/clerics, but I don't think she had much alternative to chasing her quarry wherever he decided to go. Belkar on the loose was quite capable of butchering other random innocents just to goad her on. And she actually, you know, won, despite some unusual factors.

True. but butchering innocents would have required him to come out of the shadows.
Anyway, Roy still wins methinks.

[brian 333]

I think both Roy and Belkar are very certain that Roy would beat the snot out of Belkar.The Sexy Shoeless God Of War is excellent at taking out minions, but in a stand up fight a halfling ranger vs. a fighter ends up badly for the ranger.

Speaking as a guy whose main toon in a NWN persistent world was a halfling ranger. (Mine was suicidal, not homicidal.)

[SlashDash]

Roy has superrior stats and weapons.

Belkar is a Ranger\Barbarian but we don't know for sure (unless I'm mistaken) what's his enemy bonus aimed at.
Some suggested it might be humans, but we don't know for sure.

So it's hard to say one way or the other, but considering Roy's massive mental scores, all he has to do is buy some item that that involves a will saving score and Belkar is toast.

[Synesthesy]

Roy has superrior stats and weapons.

Belkar is a Ranger\Barbarian but we don't know for sure (unless I'm mistaken) what's his enemy bonus aimed at.
Some suggested it might be humans, but we don't know for sure.

It should be kobolds, he hate kobolds. And undead, after the facts of Azure City (he almost said that to Durkula once).

However, I vote for Roy. He's both stronger and smarter (while Miko was stronger, but not smarter) then Belkar.

[zimmerwald1915]

It should be kobolds, he hate kobolds. And undead, after the facts of Azure City (he almost said that to Durkula once).

Pretty sure Belkar's favored enemies are humans, reptilians, goblinoids, and undead, not necessarily in that order.

[Synesthesy]

Pretty sure Belkar's favored enemies are humans, reptilians, goblinoids, and undead, not necessarily in that order.

How many favored enemy can a ranger have?

[Kish]

Depends on their level.

[137beth]

I'd assume Roy wins pretty easily, based on the scene when Belkar failed to impress the organizers of the gladiator games.

[zinycor]

Sadly, Roy wins pretty easily. Belkar's only choice would be to trick Roy, and fight him in a similar way to when he fought Miko, but Roy knows Belkar too well to fall for those tricks.

[ORione]

The gladiatorial training scene was a good indication of how this would go down, IMO.

I'd assume Roy wins pretty easily, based on the scene when Belkar failed to impress the organizers of the gladiator games.

I'll just provide a link for everyone's convenience.

[Sm3gl]

Belmar might win if he got his hands on a wisdom item and got to make use of ranger spellcasting.

[ericgrau]

Belmar might win if he got his hands on a wisdom item and got to make use of ranger spellcasting.

So... he could cast 4th level ranger spells? Level 15 adventurers have stronger magical toothpicks.

Putting plot aside, a fighter outfights a ranger and Roy has a better weapon. A ranger has better skills though. And belkar has barbarian rage, though he doesn't seem to use it. So maybe if Belkar snuck up on Roy... he'd still probably lose. But at least he'd have a better chance.

Besides not using his spells, Belkar seems to not use his tracking ability and many other skills. OTOH Roy doesn't tend to optimize well as a fighter, usually sticking to just thwacking things in spite of his intelligence, access to feats and access to powerful magic items. So it comes down to an uptomized thwack vs thwack battle (besides maybe a surprise round for Belkar), and Roy wins that battle. Even being behind a level or two. But those behind get extra xp so I'm betting he's at least partway caught up.

Belkar might at least try some hit and run like he did with Miko. He still wouldn't be able to hurt Roy much but he at least might be able to get away when he starts to lose. He's also better at killing masses of weak foes so there's that at least since D&D is PVE not PVP.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Pretty sure Belkar's favored enemies are humans, reptilians, goblinoids, and undead, not necessarily in that order.

The Giant ones made a comment on the topic of whether these characters were based on ones he had played. On Belkar he said something to the effect of "I've had a halfling ranger with humans as his favored enemies, but that's about it". So yeah, Belkar very likely has humans as a favored enemy.

He still has a suboptimal weapon choice when the goal is damage per round rather than minions slain though, he is a few steps behind in the magical weapon race, and one of the other magic items he has hurts him but can't hurt Roy. He can't use one of the main class features that could give him an advantage, spells, and doesn't get those nice bonus feats Roy spend on his boss killer build. The only thing Roy has that he can't use in this fight is that feat that let's him disrupt spellcasting by attacking, and that one helps neutralize the unlikely scenario that Belkar gets a wisdom buff from somewhere and starts casting.

[brian 333]

Mobility versus armor favors armor for every purpose except getting away. My halfling ranger was a ranged weapon specialist for a reason.

But the ability to choose when and where to fight can be negated by not chasing the mobile guy. If this is a true 'versus' scenario in which it can only end when one guy dies, Roy need only wait to totally negate this advantage, and because Belkar has only demonstrated proficiency with a thrown rock, (something Roy can do at about the same level of skill but with much larger rocks,) he cannot rely on ranged attacks to whittle down Roy's HP pool.

If it is a scenario in which Roy must prevent Belkar from killing innocents, on the other hand, Belkar would win in a landslide (of innocent corpses.) The advantage of mobility is in picking when and where to fight, and should Belkar choose to avoid Roy, Roy won't ever catch him.

[Anonymouswizard]

Belmar might win if he got his hands on a wisdom item and got to make use of ranger spellcasting.

We've known for a long time that if Belkar has the Wisdom to cast Ranger spells he becomes pascifist.

[martianmister]

Sorry but I have go with Belkar. Keeping Belkar alive but under control (till someone/thing unstoppable kill him) is one of Roy's grand schemes. He's too proud to give up on that to kill him. Belkar may be weaker, but he's unusually good at killing people.

[Fyraltari]

Sorry but I have go with Belkar. Keeping Belkar alive but under control (till someone/thing unstoppable kill him) is one of Roy's grand schemes. He's too proud to give on that to kill him.

Panel 16.
If this is a deathmatch whe have to start with the assumption that they both are completely, 100%, all-in with the idea of killing the other, else it defeats the purpose.

[hroþila]

Plus I don't think Roy is particularly invested in that alleged grand scheme of his, at all.

[Emanick]

Plus I don't think Roy is particularly invested in that alleged grand scheme of his, at all.

Yeah, he seems fine with the idea that Belkar will be dead in a month or so. Not buying that Roy would be unwilling to kill Belkar if Belkar was trying to kill him.

[Celticbear]

Guys, we are all forgetting a crucial detail on this fight. Roy is a mere mortal, and Belkar. Well...

I AM A SEXY SHOELESS GOD OF WAR!!!

Okay, that wasn't the best arguement, but Belkar's quicker, stealthier, and willing to do anything in a fight. I think the real question is where these two are fighting. If it's in a gray, featureless, death battle arena, then yes my money's on Roy. But if Belkar can get his hands on a few meat-shields innocent people, he'd win.

[zinycor]

Guys, we are all forgetting a crucial detail on this fight. Roy is a mere mortal, and Belkar. Well...

I AM A SEXY SHOELESS GOD OF WAR!!!

Okay, that wasn't the best arguement, but Belkar's quicker, stealthier, and willing to do anything in a fight. I think the real question is where these two are fighting. If it's in a gray, featureless, death battle arena, then yes my money's on Roy. But if Belkar can get his hands on a few meat-shields innocent people, he'd win.

mmmmm.... I love this idea... threatening innocents seems like a great way to defeat Roy.

[martianmister]

Panel 16.

That panel is part of Roy's most mentally unstable moment in this comic. And the worst thing he did is drawing his sword and threatening Belkar. I can't see him killing Belkar, unless Belkar do something horrible veyond compare.

If this is a deathmatch whe have to start with the assumption that they both are completely, 100%, all-in with the idea of killing the other, else it defeats the purpose.

In that case it's just comparing their stats, and answer to that is obviously Roy.