How I almost got arrested at the movies this weekend.

[dascarletm]

I want to post this because I'm still a little upset over the incident, and I think it is a good story with a good moral(s).

The Story
This saturday (Nov. 26th) I went to go see Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them with my wife, her friends, and their husbands/boyfriends/fiances. Everything was fine and dandy, we went out to eat first, I got snacks, a nice row for us to all sit next to one-another, etc. Right before the movie started this family sits right in front of us. Normally not a problem, except the parents were definitely high on something. The mother had to be practically carried by her kids she was so out of it, and the father wasn't much better. Not my problem though, I'll go about my business, they'll go about theirs. The movie starts.

During the movie the guy is muttering something. Something about his seat. I can't really understand what he is saying, and I can't tell if this is directed towards me or his kid next to him. I ignore it and continue watching. A little while later, he looks back and says in an angry way, "Stop kicking my seat." I look to the guy next to me, being that it had to be me or him. We were the only ones with access to his chair. I ask if he did it, he asked if I did it. Neither of us were kicking his chair. I think, perhaps I was accidentally bumping his chair, I have long legs after all. I apologize and continue watching the movie. However, I'm not really watching the film, I'm watching my legs and my friend's legs. I can say both of us had our legs pulled in as much as possible in order to not aggravate this guy.

However, maybe about one quarter of the movie has gone by and this guy is still getting more and more aggravated looking. He turns around and yells at the top of his voice, "Stop kicking my chair!"
I reply, "Dude, nobody is kicking your chair, I haven't touched it." He gets angrier as time goes on, and eventually leaves. His kids and wife are still their so I'm thinking he is going to go to the manager and complain about something he's imagining, the ushers will come in and this will be a poor time for everyone. He however was gone for a very long time. So long in fact that I thought he just left. About halfway through the movie, the movie just pauses.

The movie pauses and the theater lights turn on. I think this is pretty dramatic for someone kicking a chair. That's when two sheriffs walk down the aisle and ask one of my friends to come with them. We are all sitting their wondering what in the heck is going on. The friend and the sheriffs come back and the guy is with them this time. He points at me and says, "That's the guy." The police tell me to come with them, and escort me out. One of them, I'll call him Bad Cop, pushes me along.

Right as we exit the theater, and are in the hallway, he forcefully puts my hands behind my back holding me at his mercy, and asks, "Do you have any weapons on you or illegal items?" I reply, "No sir." Being as polite as I can be. The other officer, Good Cop we'll call him, asks if I got into an altercation with that man. I tell him what happened, wondering if the town I'm in has some movie seat kicking by-laws.

Good Cop says, "Well that man claims that you have been kicking his seat during the movie, and when he asked you to stop you pulled a gun on him and threatened to kill him." I was completely flabbergasted.
Incredulously I reply, "W-w-what? I didn't do that. That's ridiculous"
"Well you don't seem to have a weapon on you, but at this point he is saying one thing, you are saying another, and I have no way to tell who is telling the truth."
"You can ask anyone else sitting near us in the theater, they will corroborate my story."
"Regardless, the manager wants you to leave. I'll be escorting you out of the theater, were you with anyone?"
"I was watching the movie with my wife and her friends."
"They can stay, but you have to go. Do you think they will want to come with you."
"I should hope my wife will want to come with me."
"I'll have my partner go and ask them if they want to leave. I'll be honest with you, I do believe you, but I think someone must have been kicking his seat. Why would he call us otherwise?"
"I can tell you that I was watching, and nobody was touching his seat. I even tried to tell him that. Why would I go to a theater and kick some random guys seat?"
"Either way you have to go."
"Officer, this man gave a false police report or something. Isn't that illegal? I mean..." I noticed that the officer was looking at me like he understood, but didn't want to be called out here for something so silly in the first place. "Ah. Nevermind I'll just go officer." So my wife and friends left the theater, and were given refunds, and free tickets.

As a consolation Good Cop did thank me for being "cool about all this." I guess nowadays just being a normal person is considered irregularly polite.


I just felt like typing this out. Thanks for listening... er, reading.

[veti]

That's... I'm flabbergasted.

I would be absolutely incandescent with rage if that happened to me. I'd be talking about suing the theatre and the police department for screwing up their jobs and my day. I probably wouldn't actually do anything about it, but I'd be talking about it, and that would make me feel marginally better.

[dascarletm]

That's... I'm flabbergasted.

I would be absolutely incandescent with rage if that happened to me. I'd be talking about suing the theatre and the police department for screwing up their jobs and my day. I probably wouldn't actually do anything about it, but I'd be talking about it, and that would make me feel marginally better.

The more I think about it the more I wish I had done something. In the moment my goal was to end the situation as quick as possible with the least fuss as possible. However, I wish I had escalated it. Maybe got the officers badge numbers and names, and then i don't know... see if I could get that guy charged for defamation or giving a false police report.

[Peelee]

I'm kind of amazed at this. What the hell kind of theater was that?

First off, every theater I know of hires off-duty cops to come hang out in-uniform on weekends from 6 to 10. It makes the cops some extra cash for mostly just hanging out with the managers and employees they like, and it also provides the theater with additional security, since not many people will try to start anything when they know police are around, and if anyone does, their compliance skyrockets when the cops walk up with you when trying to fix the situation. Now, I can see some theaters not doing this if they're in areas that aren't really all that populated, but even then, this was Thanksgiving Weekend. Thanksgiving Day is the second busiest day of the year for theaters, and the weekend afterwards is still massive. That alone should have meant that the theater would have cops on hand, instead of waiting an inordinate amount of time for the sheriff's office to come out.

Next, the management understandably freaked out about the report of a dude pulling a gun, and understandably wanted that guy out. Management not being present when the cops pulled out out and listening to what was going on, especially when the dude's story could easily be corroborated by witnesses in the theater? I try to be kind of forgiving on theater managers, since I know the kind of crap they go through, but no, that person was not doing their damn job. It was a Saturday night. I guarantee the General Manager was there that night, and should have been there handling what was going on. That wasn't happening, and the fact that you didn't get arrested, there's no police report to pull up, and you got free passes (which should be documented on why they were given, if it's a big chain theater) should all be at your back. I'd absolutely call corporate about that. Normally, if they refunded you and gave you free passes, I'd say that's realistically the most they can do, and call it a day. But sheriff deputies coming out and slapping cuffs on you? Hell no. GM shoulda been there for that. That's a major event happening in their theater, and unless they had another major incident going down, that should have taken precedence.

As far as the cops themselves, it sounds like they did everything they could. Listened to your side, believed you, but still had to escort you out because you were on private property and the management of said property said you had to go. They may have felt bad about it and known you were in the right, but I don't think they could have done anything differently.

[dascarletm]

I'm kind of amazed at this. What the hell kind of theater was that?

First off, every theater I know of hires off-duty cops to come hang out in-uniform on weekends from 6 to 10. It makes the cops some extra cash for mostly just hanging out with the managers and employees they like, and it also provides the theater with additional security, since not many people will try to start anything when they know police are around, and if anyone does, their compliance skyrockets when the cops walk up with you when trying to fix the situation. Now, I can see some theaters not doing this if they're in areas that aren't really all that populated, but even then, this was Thanksgiving Weekend. Thanksgiving Day is the second busiest day of the year for theaters, and the weekend afterwards is still massive. That alone should have meant that the theater would have cops on hand, instead of waiting an inordinate amount of time for the sheriff's office to come out.

Next, the management understandably freaked out about the report of a dude pulling a gun, and understandably wanted that guy out. Management not being present when the cops pulled out out and listening to what was going on, especially when the dude's story could easily be corroborated by witnesses in the theater? I try to be kind of forgiving on theater managers, since I know the kind of crap they go through, but no, that person was not doing their damn job. It was a Saturday night. I guarantee the General Manager was there that night, and should have been there handling what was going on. That wasn't happening, and the fact that you didn't get arrested, there's no police report to pull up, and you got free passes (which should be documented on why they were given, if it's a big chain theater) should all be at your back. I'd absolutely call corporate about that. Normally, if they refunded you and gave you free passes, I'd say that's realistically the most they can do, and call it a day. But sheriff deputies coming out and slapping cuffs on you? Hell no. GM shoulda been there for that. That's a major event happening in their theater, and unless they had another major incident going down, that should have taken precedence.

As far as the cops themselves, it sounds like they did everything they could. Listened to your side, believed you, but still had to escort you out because you were on private property and the management of said property said you had to go. They may have felt bad about it and known you were in the right, but I don't think they could have done anything differently.

They didn't have any security as far as I could tell. Just the ushers. This was at a theater in the town listed as my location, San Diego, so big city.
The manager was there and listened to the whole thing, but just scowled at me the whole time. He was there when i got the refund and the free passes. He also apologized, but still upset. Probably at the situation. I assume that kicking me out is standard procedure, but I wish they had asked anyone else around us. They were all saying they would back us up that we weren't doing anything.

Ah well. I wonder if anyone who knows the legal code can say if there was anything else I should have done.

[WarKitty]

Realistically, in the U.S., a property owner can ask anyone to leave at any time for any reason that isn't specifically illegal. And legally since it's private property you have to comply or risk being arrested for trespassing. Leaving without too much fuss is the best thing you can do. You can always call corporate later and complain.

[Peelee]

They didn't have any security as far as I could tell. Just the ushers. This was at a theater in the town listed as my location, San Diego, so big city.
The manager was there and listened to the whole thing, but just scowled at me the whole time. He was there when i got the refund and the free passes. He also apologized, but still upset. Probably at the situation. I assume that kicking me out is standard procedure, but I wish they had asked anyone else around us. They were all saying they would back us up that we weren't doing anything.

Ah well. I wonder if anyone who knows the legal code can say if there was anything else I should have done.

Huh. You'd think they'd have enough cops out there to have some wanting some easy extra money, but i dunno.

Anyway, if the manager was there, was told you were waving a gun in his face, and then you got frisked and had no gun? Yeah, legally, he was in the right, but you're damn sure I'd still call corporate and complain. That's craptastic customer service, especially when he was able to see the cops verify that you had no gun and that he was lying. Probably didn't want to deal with the crazy guy, honestly. On the one hand, it's hard to blame him, I wouldn't really want to either. On the other, I'd be pretty damn embarrassed if I went to a movie, some crazy dude lied about me to such an extent they had to stop the show, bring up the lights, have cops escort me out of the auditorium, and kick me out.

[lio45]

Realistically, in the U.S., a property owner can ask anyone to leave at any time for any reason that isn't specifically illegal. And legally since it's private property you have to comply or risk being arrested for trespassing. Leaving without too much fuss is the best thing you can do. You can always call corporate later and complain.

More or less. Generally, they need a valid reason. Pretty sure the case of NV below is typical.

We’ve all seen signs posted in restaurants and shops announcing that management “reserves the right to refuse service.” It’s one of those commonly used legal phrases – like “legal tender” or “pleading the fifth” – that most people have a vague understanding of – without really knowing what it means. How can businesses refuse service? Who can they refuse it to? More importantly, who can’t they refuse to serve?

(...)

Restaurants and stores qualify as “public accommodations” even if they’re a private business. As such, discrimination laws apply just as much on private property and to private businesses as they do in any public place.

In Nevada, you have a legally protected right to evict from your premises, “anyone who acts in a disorderly manner, or who destroys the property of any such owner or keeper, or who causes a public disturbance in or upon such premises.” (Source: Nevada Legislature).

http://www.business2community.com/tr...hBGercl7Wpu.97

https://blog.tamnevada.com/2011/01/2...w-your-rights/

[WarKitty]

More or less. Generally, they need a valid reason. Pretty sure the case of NV below is typical.

Eh, generally discrimination laws only apply to legally protected classes. So you can't be kicked out for your race, sex, religion, or other specifically protected class. Businesses are often advised to have a citeable reason so they avoid being accused of kicking someone out for a protected reason, but it's not legally necessary. But "customer someone else made an accusation against" isn't going to be a protected class unless that accusation was based on a protected class - which it doesn't sound like it was.

As a customer, unless you have good reason to believe you're being kicked out on a protected reason, generally your best move is to leave quietly. Otherwise you really can end up with a trespassing charge.

[Anarion]

Personally, I'd have complied with everything the officers said, but then asked to file my own report afterwards explaining that the other man had made a false police report and detailing how I had been treated by the officers at the theater.

[TechnOkami]

Well, that was a story.

Sorry people were being jerks.

[Peelee]

Personally, I'd have complied with everything the officers said, but then asked to file my own report afterwards explaining that the other man had made a false police report and detailing how I had been treated by the officers at the theater.

Did the man file a false report, though? I have no experience with cops, aside from hanging out with them while I worked at a movie theater, but isn't filing a report a more lengthy process with actual paperwork? I'm certain that's illegal, but is this?

[dascarletm]

Did the man file a false report, though? I have no experience with cops, aside from hanging out with them while I worked at a movie theater, but isn't filing a report a more lengthy process with actual paperwork? I'm certain that's illegal, but is this?

From what I was looking up:

In California for example, calling 911 with the intent to annoy or harass an individual (such as calling 911 claiming a neighbor's house is on fire when it isn't) may lead to fines of up to $1,000, six months in jail, or both. To repeatedly call 911 in California for non-emergency reasons can lead to fines as high as $200 per call.

Also:
Thanks TechnOkami.

[Anarion]

Did the man file a false report, though? I have no experience with cops, aside from hanging out with them while I worked at a movie theater, but isn't filing a report a more lengthy process with actual paperwork? I'm certain that's illegal, but is this?

I dunno. He left the theater, claimed untruthfully that someone who didn't even possess a weapon pulled a gun on him, and came back with police interrupting the movie. Seems pretty bad to me.

[Fiery Diamond]

Did the man file a false report, though? I have no experience with cops, aside from hanging out with them while I worked at a movie theater, but isn't filing a report a more lengthy process with actual paperwork? I'm certain that's illegal, but is this?

Well, he didn't technically file a false report, but he did make a 911 call on intentionally false premises to harass someone, which is also illegal.

I would have complied, then made a report about his defamation, honestly. I'd have been livid.

[Liquor Box]

That's... I'm flabbergasted.

I would be absolutely incandescent with rage if that happened to me. I'd be talking about suing the theatre and the police department for screwing up their jobs and my day. I probably wouldn't actually do anything about it, but I'd be talking about it, and that would make me feel marginally better.

What for?

The Theatre manager has the right to ask you to leave. Even if he knew dascarletm did not have a gun and did not kick the other man's seat (he actually had no way of knowing that) he could ask him to leave. He might be liable for the cost of the movie ticket for repudiating the contract, but nothing more than that.

As for the Police, from the story it doesn't sound that they did anything wrong. They restrained dascarletm (perhaps roughly, but from the story not excessively) but at the time they had reason to believe he had a gun.

Admittedly, this probably occurred in a jurisdiction regarding which I don't have much knowledge, but I doubt there'd be much of a case against the police or the building owner in most jurisdictions.

The villain in the story is the other man, not the police or the movie theater.

[tantric]

my story....this was when i first got out of prison and had a pretty low opinion of myself. so, i managed to find one of the worst human beings possible to date. he was a compulsive liar and an alcoholic - as in he poured a glass of vodka and set it on his nightstand for when he woke up. he was also very sexy and we had great chemistry. and i was in a nihilistic phase.

anyway, said person was a HUGE iron man fan. basically, he thought he could get the suit and be an ******* unlimited. when ironman 2 came out, we went to see it in a theater in decatur georgia that served liquor. *this* decatur....



so butthead was drunk, and he wanted to explain the movie to me - meaning chatter constantly. after many nasty looks, a rather upper class black lady sitting in front of us with her huge-ass bf said, politely, 'could you please not talk?'

he called her a n-word c-word. loudly. i came out of that seat like a claymore and hit the ground running. left his sorry ass there, too. i mean, i was flirting with a death wish....but i ain't goin out like that.

[Quild]

If it helps about the kicking thing and you wonder if you somehow had his seat moving... I had a similar situation in a plane (only for the seat thing) where I was annoyed by some drunk guy even if I clearly did nothing.


In 2012, I was flying back from Greece to France with my ex. She had complained that a guy was mixing drugs with beer right before going into the plane and the guy ended... Right behind me.
He started kicking my seat, once, twice, thrice... so I turn to ask if there's anything wrong and... get insulted because I changed the position of my seat and it was bothering him.

Thing is... I did not. I showed him how my seat was perfectly aligned with the two others and how it was in upright position. And proposed to lower the seat so he would see the difference. Didn't change anything and his wife/gf who was embarassed made me sign that I was arguing for nothing.

He continued complaining and my girlfriend shouted at him for being drunk and bother her. She has temper! I wasn't fond of her yelling at the guy right behind me, but he got quiet for the flight.

Once landed, I wanted to confront him because I was ready to have in the airport the scene I wanted to avoid in the plane. But he took his luggages and went away quickly.

[nyjastul69]

I read the OP but none of the responses. This is not a surprise. The presumption of guilt instead of innocence has been going on for years. One does not need to be correct to get action, one just needs to complain.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by dascarletm
I want to post this because I'm still a little upset over the incident….

If you're still upset about this four days later--and you have every right to be--then you should certainly contact the regional office for the theater company. That manager was incompetent and only cared about getting rid of a perceived problem. The theater company needs to hear from their customers about this kind of behavior.

Depending on how far you want to pursue this, you might also complain about this to the Better Business Bureau. I would recommend making your complaint in writing, since phone calls have a way of dripping off the unreceptive mind.

Originally Stated by Cop
"…I have no way to tell who is telling the truth."

This is complete nonsense. If you're accused of pulling a gun on someone, and the police officer determines you don't have a gun, it shouldn't be too hard to know who's lying.

I'm also not sure why the two cops didn't bother to ask anyone else sitting around you whether guns and threats were in evidence. Whether or not it was malfeasance, advanced apathy or simple incompetence, they certainly should have.

Complaints made to police departments usually go nowhere, but complaints made to city representatives about police departments might be listened to. Did you get the names of the officers, or any other information about them? I always get a card from every officer I speak with.

Originally Posted by dascarletm
The more I think about it the more I wish I had done something. In the moment my goal was to end the situation as quick as possible with the least fuss as possible.

From personal experience I know how you feel. But you did the smart thing, which was to cooperate like a reasonable person.

Unfortunately, police often take advantage of this to do as little as possible while impressing on everyone just how in charge they are. They know that people usually want to end the situation just as much as you did, and that gives them leverage they rarely fail to employ.

Originally Posted by nyjastul69
One does not need to be correct to get action, one just needs to complain.

Sadly, in my experience there's never much action, and certainly not directed at the people who actually break the law.

.

[Aedilred]

What for?

The Theatre manager has the right to ask you to leave. Even if he knew dascarletm did not have a gun and did not kick the other man's seat (he actually had no way of knowing that) he could ask him to leave. He might be liable for the cost of the movie ticket for repudiating the contract, but nothing more than that.

As for the Police, from the story it doesn't sound that they did anything wrong. They restrained dascarletm (perhaps roughly, but from the story not excessively) but at the time they had reason to believe he had a gun.

Admittedly, this probably occurred in a jurisdiction regarding which I don't have much knowledge, but I doubt there'd be much of a case against the police or the building owner in most jurisdictions.

The villain in the story is the other man, not the police or the movie theater.

There's always something you can sue someone for in that sort of situation. Defamation, emotional trauma, etc. Whether it's worth doing that is another matter, and giving legal advice is obviously against the rules here.

The police did their jobs. Admittedly they didn't do them very well, but they're not detectives and their real goal here is to resolve the situation one way or another and then as soon as they realise nobody was actually in danger of getting shot to clear off so they can deal with something actually important. I have to say that what I tend to see in films and TV shows - I don't know if it's the reality - of American cops pulling guns on everyone for every suspected crime, holding (or handcuffing) their hands behind their back and frogmarching them around makes my hackles rise on general principle, but if that is indeed the standard then it doesn't sound like they did anything wrong here except perhaps be a little lazier than would be ideal.

The theatre manager is a different matter. They have taken major action - called the police and interrupted a show in response to a customer complaint. That in itself is not all that unreasonable given the complaint in question. But no apology was made to the wronged party, who was humiliated and embarrassed as well as ejected from the show he'd paid money for. And while they had no way of knowing whether or not the guy's seat had been kicked, he had still lied about the gun and got the police called and the show interrupted as a result, which while it doesn't necessarily prove that he's lying about the seat-kicking as well, should be enough to cast serious doubt on the whole of his story, and means he's caused a much bigger problem for the theatre than dascarletm had even if he had been kicking the seat. Whether or not they were within their legal rights to behave in such a way, it is all terrible customer service and a complaint is absolutely in order.

[Liquor Box]

There's always something you can sue someone for in that sort of situation. Defamation, emotional trauma, etc. Whether it's worth doing that is another matter, and giving legal advice is obviously against the rules here.

The police did their jobs. Admittedly they didn't do them very well, but they're not detectives and their real goal here is to resolve the situation one way or another and then as soon as they realise nobody was actually in danger of getting shot to clear off so they can deal with something actually important. I have to say that what I tend to see in films and TV shows - I don't know if it's the reality - of American cops pulling guns on everyone for every suspected crime, holding (or handcuffing) their hands behind their back and frogmarching them around makes my hackles rise on general principle, but if that is indeed the standard then it doesn't sound like they did anything wrong here except perhaps be a little lazier than would be ideal.

The theatre manager is a different matter. They have taken major action - called the police and interrupted a show in response to a customer complaint. That in itself is not all that unreasonable given the complaint in question. But no apology was made to the wronged party, who was humiliated and embarrassed as well as ejected from the show he'd paid money for. And while they had no way of knowing whether or not the guy's seat had been kicked, he had still lied about the gun and got the police called and the show interrupted as a result, which while it doesn't necessarily prove that he's lying about the seat-kicking as well, should be enough to cast serious doubt on the whole of his story, and means he's caused a much bigger problem for the theatre than dascarletm had even if he had been kicking the seat. Whether or not they were within their legal rights to behave in such a way, it is all terrible customer service and a complaint is absolutely in order.

The only possible defamation was from the person in the theatre - he defamed dascarletm by saying he had a gun when he did not. Usually he would have defence if he wrongly reported a crime to the correct authorities (the police), but that would not apply if he knew the allegations were wrong. Neither the theatre manager (unless he knew there was no gun) nor the police defamed anyone.

Emotional harm is not a cause of action (something you can sue on), rather it is a form of damage. Emotional harm may arise from a cause of action and damages can be awarded from it, but it is not itself a cause of action. The problem here is that there does not appear to be a cause of action arising from the actions of the police or the theater.

I'm not from California, and I know USA has an (exagerated) reputation for litigiousness but I am reasonably confident that the above is correct.

I generally agree with you about the police, but I disagree about the theater manager. All he would know is that someone said that dascarletm had pulled a gun, and that dascarletm had said he hadn't. It isn't the theater managers job to investigate further by interviewing others watching the movie - and seeing if any of dascarletm's friends now had the gun (although perhaps the police should have checked that).

Even the police concluded that it was probable that dascarletm was kicking the other person's seat (and I agree that that is the most reasonable inference to take from hearing both sides of the story). As you point out, the manager has already had to disrupt the movie (appropriately given the allegation of a gun threat), and he would be loathe to put the two protagonists together again which may lead to another disruption - it was an entirely appropriate decision to kick a person out. From a pure 'fairness' point of view it may have been better to remove both dascarletm as well as the other person, but the manager was within his rights to take the path of least resistance.

I wonder if you are coming from the perspective of only having heard dascarletm's account of events and from therefore assuming that it is accurate. The manager heard both sides of the story (and the other man's first), and would probably not have known which to believe.

[Peelee]

Dascarletm hasn't specifically stated, but if he was handcuffed immediately, asked if he had a gun, and then let go with the good cop believing in him, I'd bet he was frisked. If he was, then yeah, theater manager was absolutely in the wrong, because it would have already been proven that there was no gun. Meaning the complaining customer was clearly lying, and about something big enough to cause a huge security concern and fully stop a show for, in addition to hassling the innocent party by having him be dragged out of the auditorium by police.

If the cops proved there was no gun, then no, that manager was absolutely in the wrong and there's absolutely zero reason to not contact corporate about it.

I have to say that what I tend to see in films and TV shows - I don't know if it's the reality - of American cops pulling guns on everyone for every suspected crime, holding (or handcuffing) their hands behind their back

I'ma try to play it safe here because this can skirt into the politics ban real easy, but the gun pulling depends heavily. I've never had it done on me, but friends have, and in our experience, it's been a notable experience (though, granted, none of us have had much experience on that side with police to begin with, so take that as you may). But cuffing? If they believe the suspect is dangerous, then absolutely. It's a nonviolent way of ensuring safety. And a lot actions cops take are for their own safety. One of the best tips I ever got hanging out with them once was if you ever do something that makes police come to you, the best thing you can do is make them feel as safe as possible. If it's nonmajor, they're less likely to write you a ticket. If it's major, they're more likely to treat you better (not drawing on you, not being too forceful, etc.). The safer they feel, the happier they are.

[Liquor Box]

Dascarletm hasn't specifically stated, but if he was handcuffed immediately, asked if he had a gun, and then let go with the good cop believing in him, I'd bet he was frisked. If he was, then yeah, theater manager was absolutely in the wrong, because it would have already been proven that there was no gun. Meaning the complaining customer was clearly lying, and about something big enough to cause a huge security concern and fully stop a show for, in addition to hassling the innocent party by having him be dragged out of the auditorium by police.

If the cops proved there was no gun, then no, that manager was absolutely in the wrong and there's absolutely zero reason to not contact corporate about it.

Presumably he was frisked, but I don't think that really determines anything.

He may have hidden the gun under the seat, or handed it to someone else when he saw the cops (the story specifies that they identified another of his friends first).

If you were to draw a gun on someone then they disappear for a time, it is pretty logical to assume they are calling the police, and then a fairly logical response to either hide the gun or to flee. So he may well have hidden the gun (outside the particular theater) while the police were being called.

I think both of those are realistic possibilities. Even if you personally think those possibilities are so farfetched as to be able to discount them, the manager was entitled to reach a different view. I can't blame him if he thought either of those were realistic possibilities. The Theater company would be far more likely to face a law suit if they had allowed descarletm to stay and then there was an incident where he hurt someone - there having already been an allegation that he threatened someone with a gun.

The villain in the story is clearly the other man, not the theater comapny or the police, although I can understand descarletm being annoyed if the police or manager were unnecesarily rude about it.

[Peelee]

I'm not saying the manager was the villain, or even a villain. I'm only saying he did not do his job well.

If it were possible that a gun was passed to another person in his part, then doesn't liability still exist as much as it had before? There is still a report of an armed man waving it around freely. The show was fully stooped. They for do that for almost any othwe r complaint that gets people removed. This was a big freaking deal. It was determined to not be as big a deal as made out to be. Manager didn't care. That's a problem.

[Liquor Box]

I'm not saying the manager was the villain, or even a villain. I'm only saying he did not do his job well.

If it were possible that a gun was passed to another person in his part, then doesn't liability still exist as much as it had before? There is still a report of an armed man waving it around freely. The show was fully stooped. They for do that for almost any othwe r complaint that gets people removed. This was a big freaking deal. It was determined to not be as big a deal as made out to be. Manager didn't care. That's a problem.

I thought you were suggesting he made too big of a deal out of it. You may well be right that he did not make a big enough of a deal out of it - that applies moreso to the police in my opinion.

Where I come from there would have certainly been a big reaction - the show would have been stopped and the theater searched by the police. But I know that guns are less of a big deal in USA, so I'm not sure what a reasonable response would be over there,

Legal liability would only arise if an incident occurred - so if the gun was used (either by descarletm or by another person) there may have been liability if it was determined that the manager's response was insufficient.

[Knaight]

The police did their jobs. Admittedly they didn't do them very well, but they're not detectives and their real goal here is to resolve the situation one way or another and then as soon as they realise nobody was actually in danger of getting shot to clear off so they can deal with something actually important. I have to say that what I tend to see in films and TV shows - I don't know if it's the reality - of American cops pulling guns on everyone for every suspected crime, holding (or handcuffing) their hands behind their back and frogmarching them around makes my hackles rise on general principle, but if that is indeed the standard then it doesn't sound like they did anything wrong here except perhaps be a little lazier than would be ideal.

That's one way to look at it. On the other hand, lets look at the series of events as they see them.

1. The manager of a movie theater reports that a customer claims another customer pulled a gun on him during a movie. Even if we assume that the manager didn't say anything that suggested this was likely nonsense (and that's a generous assumption) the police have only an unsubstantiated claim to work with here.
2. The police enter a movie theater full of calm people, none of whom are acting like they just saw a violent confrontation. That little detail also almost certainly tipped off the manager, which is why the assumption that they weren't outright told that they were likely dealing with a false claim is unlikely.
3. The guy making the false accusation points to someone and says "that's the guy". Presumably the rest of the audience nearby is just looking confused.
4. The police violently cuff the guy, then shove him along and begin interrogations.
5. During said interrogations they then act like the guy who made an obviously overblown false accusation is somehow at least partially in the right.

I see two scenarios here. The better of the two involves a staggering display of incompetence. The more likely is that the police knew there was no danger but saw an opportunity to harass a civilian and make a display of their power and went for it, adding just a touch of police brutality and probably hoping for more resistance so they could get really violent.

[dascarletm]

To clarify the police didn't actually cuff me. They held my hands behind my back, and the physicality they gave me was forceful but not harming. I complied with every order they gave me so there was little room for them to escalate the force. In addition everything I said was usually capped with a "sir" or "officer."

[Knaight]

To clarify the police didn't actually cuff me. They held my hands behind my back, and the physicality they gave me was forceful but not harming. I complied with every order they gave me so there was little room for them to escalate the force. In addition everything I said was usually capped with a "sir" or "officer."

So other than the cuffing the timeline fits. I'm sticking with my analysis here (with that obvious exception), including the use of the term violent. If anything their choice not to be more violent in the prescence of witnesses when there is no cover of resistance is more evidence that these police weren't stupid and were looking for an opportunity to go on a power trip by brutalizing a civilian that they didn't get.

[Liquor Box]

That's one way to look at it. On the other hand, lets look at the series of events as they see them.

1. The manager of a movie theater reports that a customer claims another customer pulled a gun on him during a movie. Even if we assume that the manager didn't say anything that suggested this was likely nonsense (and that's a generous assumption) the police have only an unsubstantiated claim to work with here.
2. The police enter a movie theater full of calm people, none of whom are acting like they just saw a violent confrontation. That little detail also almost certainly tipped off the manager, which is why the assumption that they weren't outright told that they were likely dealing with a false claim is unlikely.
3. The guy making the false accusation points to someone and says "that's the guy". Presumably the rest of the audience nearby is just looking confused.
4. The police violently cuff the guy, then shove him along and begin interrogations.
5. During said interrogations they then act like the guy who made an obviously overblown false accusation is somehow at least partially in the right.

I see two scenarios here. The better of the two involves a staggering display of incompetence. The more likely is that the police knew there was no danger but saw an opportunity to harass a civilian and make a display of their power and went for it, adding just a touch of police brutality and probably hoping for more resistance so they could get really violent.

If a guy pulled a gun on you at the movies, you may then make an unsubstantiated claim to the police. How would you want the police to react?

We don't know what they guy making the allegation told the police, maybe he said the gun threat was subtle and he was the only one who saw it.

Cuffing someone who has just been accused of wielding a gun strikes me as entirely reasonable (and may well be required by police policy), and all cuffing is violent (which is why it was ok for you to state it was violent without descarletm explicitly saying so). And as for your fifth point that they acted like the accuser was partially in the right - that was their opinion (that the seat was being kicked). Just because you reah a different conclusion (based on one side of the story) does not make their conclusion unreasonable,

Peelee's concern that the police seemed to make to little of a deal out of this is more compelling than your concern thatthey made too big of a deal.