Spheres of Power Ask Me Anything #2

[A.J.Gibson]

Hi SoP experts,

Just wondering why the Sphere archetypes of the Paizo 3/4 BAB full casters (Cleric, Druid etc.) get a talent every level, sometimes with additional domain talents?
Seems like they should get the Thaumaturge progression to me...

Thanks :)

I personally don't have a problem with it - any sphere archetype is going to be a step down from a vancian cleric or druid, and if you want to play a self-buffing gish, you need full CL in several spheres to be able to buff yourself properly. How thaumaturge balances their full-CL and mid-BAB with lower talents strikes me as not balancing at all, as they still gain features (like bonus feats, which are better than bonus talents because you can taken any feat or any talent) of equal value.

[mrguymiah]

Q309 - Does Spheres of Power maintain the limit that only spells with a casting time of a full round or less can be affected by the quicken spell metamagic feat?

[Mehangel]

Q309 - Does Spheres of Power maintain the limit that only spells with a casting time of a full round or less can be affected by the quicken spell metamagic feat?

Personally, I would rule no, but it should be noted that unlike with vancian spellcasting, Quicken Spell only reduces the casting time by two steps (it doesn't automatically reduce the casting time to swift).

[Aipaca]

You are not alone in thinking that the Cleric and Druid should be reworked. However, I like some others believe that these classes should be changed to mid-casters, but high-casters with specific spheres (clerics = Life or Death + 2 spheres determined by domain; druids option = Alteration, Nature, and Weather).

That is a great compromise, thanks Mehangel I'll probably go with that for my games.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Q310: Are there plans to release SoP content for Starfinder? If not, does anyone with the book have suggestions on adapting the casting classes to Sphere Casting?

[A.J.Gibson]

Q310: Are there plans to release SoP content for Starfinder? If not, does anyone with the book have suggestions on adapting the casting classes to Sphere Casting?

I'm doing some semi-official work there; I think it's inevitable that something will happen, though it will be easier to do conversions once the bestiary comes out.

The tricky part with the Mystic and Technomancer is that archetypes don't exist the same way as they do in Pathfinder, you have to effectively develop new classes, and they both have class features that interact with vancian spell casting. In addition, they are both 6-level casters. Some would say just make them both mid-casters, but I personally find that boring and hope to do something a little more interesting.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Just glad it's being worked on!

[khadgar567]

I'm doing some semi-official work there; I think it's inevitable that something will happen, though it will be easier to do conversions once the bestiary comes out.

The tricky part with the Mystic and Technomancer is that archetypes don't exist the same way as they do in Pathfinder, you have to effectively develop new classes, and they both have class features that interact with vancian spell casting. In addition, they are both 6-level casters. Some would say just make them both mid-casters, but I personally find that boring and hope to do something a little more interesting.

yeah old school archtypes would be nice in starfinder but spheres of stars book would be nice to get more content on content starved system like starfinder and give better foothold for new system then current pathfinders love hate relation ship sphere system ( I want my palpatine solarion damn it )

[Mithril Leaf]

Q311:
If you use the weather sphere and spend a spell point to make it persist without concentration, does the effect stay where it starts, or does it travel with you?

Q312:
When is stack going to be done with enough playtest material for the Weather Handbook to start playtesting it?

[A.J.Gibson]

Q312:
When is stack going to be done with enough playtest material for the Weather Handbook to start playtesting it?

A312: The Weather handbook is currently being written by Jeff Collins, who is also writing the Fate book (which is being prepared for playtest, and will enter after Conjuration does, hopefully soon). We have a rule that if you have a book in playtest, your next book can't enter until it is out, so once Fate is published, Weather can enter. Basically, expect Weather to be one of the final books, along with (I'm guessing) Time.

[Mithril Leaf]

A312: The Weather handbook is currently being written by Jeff Collins, who is also writing the Fate book (which is being prepared for playtest, and will enter after Conjuration does, hopefully soon). We have a rule that if you have a book in playtest, your next book can't enter until it is out, so once Fate is published, Weather can enter. Basically, expect Weather to be one of the final books, along with (I'm guessing) Time.

Ah darn, I was sure stack was going to write it with his immense love of the weather spheres. Thanks for the info though. Any list of the expected order of books?

[stack]

Due to the people's schedules delaying internal review, I believe Fate will be public first.

After life is creation, then we get a bit fuzzy schedule-wise.

Q311:
If you use the weather sphere and spend a spell point to make it persist without concentration, does the effect stay where it starts, or does it travel with you?

A311: From Weather sphere control weather: "If you are maintaining the effect through concentration, the effect moves with you. If it is being maintained through a spell point, it remains stationary."

[Mithril Leaf]

Q313:
Now that the Conjuration Handbook is coming out, can we reconsider the fact that the Sphere Summoner has no Evolution Points and thus is rather mediocre? It trades away it's three main class features and gets back what is roughly the equivalent of one and a half of them. It loses getting a good Eidolon for the exact same one everyone else gets, it loses Summon Monster for making that same tier of Eidolon that everyone else gets basically equal to the one that an Incanter gets, and loses it's spellcasting for spherecasting, which is a fairer but admittedly slightly weaker system.

The Summoner is worse at it's entire shtick than an equally leveled Incanter, while also being way worse at every other sphere. Yes this would allow the Summoner to get one singular very potent summon, but the thing that broke the Conjuration sphere was never having one powerful summon, but having a bunch of moderately powerful summons for the same cost, which allowed action economy exploitation. This is the same issue with the original Summoner for people who knew what they were doing, because spamming summons was usually the best course of action. Hence the issues with the Master Summoner.

EDIT: Maybe only give them the Unchained Summoner's Evolution set.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Q313:
Now that the Conjuration Handbook is coming out, can we reconsider the fact that the Sphere Summoner has no Evolution Points and thus is rather mediocre? It trades away it's three main class features and gets back what is roughly the equivalent of one and a half of them. It loses getting a good Eidolon for the exact same one everyone else gets, it loses Summon Monster for making that same tier of Eidolon that everyone else gets basically equal to the one that an Incanter gets, and loses it's spellcasting for spherecasting, which is a fairer but admittedly slightly weaker system.

The Summoner is worse at it's entire shtick than an equally leveled Incanter, while also being way worse at every other sphere. Yes this would allow the Summoner to get one singular very potent summon, but the thing that broke the Conjuration sphere was never having one powerful summon, but having a bunch of moderately powerful summons for the same cost, which allowed action economy exploitation. This is the same issue with the original Summoner for people who knew what they were doing, because spamming summons was usually the best course of action. Hence the issues with the Master Summoner.

EDIT: Maybe only give them the Unchained Summoner's Evolution set.

Far from an official Answer, but what I've done at my table is give back Evolution Pool as a class feature (somewhat like Arcane Pool crossed with Akashic Magic's essence investment), allowing the Summoner to invest a number of Spell Points up to the number shown on the Unchained chart into the Eidolon Companion when they first summon it, and change them/add or subtract points each time they level up or otherwise permanently gain more Spell Points. Master Summoner and other "multi-eidolon archetypes" are able to split this pool between their eidolons so the action economy is (hopefully, haven't playtested yet) offset by barely having any spell points to use on the fly. And yes, we're using the Unchained evolution list.

[AlienFromBeyond]

Q313:
Now that the Conjuration Handbook is coming out, can we reconsider the fact that the Sphere Summoner has no Evolution Points and thus is rather mediocre?

Overall I have to agree, though Sphere Summoner's Aspect/Greater Aspect can lead to some interesting interactions. Until that 10th level however, it is quite trash. Conjuration handbook is definitely the right place to make a real summoner archetype, but it seems it's not available for public comments yet since I haven't seen the link posted anywhere.

[Mithril Leaf]

Q314:
Hey, would someone be able to errata the Embodiment of Magic creatures to not be able to create additional Embodiments of Magic themselves? Cause they totally can currently, and that's not super great. I recognize it's easily agreed not to use it, but maybe jot it down somewhere for the eventual compendium release.

[digiman619]

Q315: How does wish work in a SoP game. Specifically for monsters that have it as an SLA. I'm in an argument about the efficacy of SoP and the subject of planar binding vs the summoning advanced talent came up. He's using this as an example that 'proves' SoP isn't a valid fix because you can summon an efreet who uses wish asanother planar ally/summoning to summon more efreets and other chain-gating shenanigans. Outside of "The GM says no" which could happen in either system, what can I say to prove my point?

[Mithril Leaf]

Q315: How does wish work in a SoP game. Specifically for monsters that have it as an SLA. I'm in an argument about the efficacy of SoP and the subject of planar binding vs the summoning advanced talent came up. He's using this as an example that 'proves' SoP isn't a valid fix because you can summon an efreet who uses wish asanother planar ally/summoning to summon more efreets and other chain-gating shenanigans. Outside of "The GM says no" which could happen in either system, what can I say to prove my point?

Say it's gated as an Advanced Talent, which is specifically stated as something that impacts the game world. That's the point of Advanced Talents, to legitimize the GM saying no.

[TheIronGolem]

Say it's gated as an Advanced Talent, which is specifically stated as something that impacts the game world. That's the point of Advanced Talents, to legitimize the GM saying no.

You might also note that it's telling that the actual abusive part is the wish, which is not from SoP. It's not SoP's fault that getting access to one efreet means getting access to infinite efreeti; that's a flaw in the monster design. Blaming SoP for this would be like blaming the theater door for the bad movie you just watched.

[Zsaber0]

Q 316

Does a +X Staff of conjuration affect the power of companions due to it increasing the caster level of specified spheres?

[Mehangel]

Q316 Does a +X Staff of conjuration affect the power of companions due to it increasing the caster level of specified spheres?

A316 No they do not

Rather than increase the number of undead that can be controlled through the Death sphere or increasing the HD of companions through the Conjuration sphere, these allies instead gain a circumstance bonus to attack rolls and skill checks equal to the staff's enhancement bonus.

[Zsaber0]

Rather than increase the number of undead that can be controlled through the Death sphere or increasing the HD of companions through the Conjuration sphere, these allies instead gain a circumstance bonus to attack rolls and skill checks equal to the staff's enhancement bonus.

Oh, that's handy. Sweet thanks.

[Zsaber0]

Q 316B

Follow up. Does it increase the caster level of other conjuration talents such as the advanced talent "Summoning" allowing you to call on more HD worth of outsiders?

[Mehangel]

Q316B Follow up. Does it increase the caster level of other conjuration talents such as the advanced talent "Summoning" allowing you to call on more HD worth of outsiders?

I don't have an official answer, but RAW it looks like that a Staff of Conjuration +X does allow you to call on more HD worth of outsiders.

[Gee-chan]

This might be the wrong place, but the Conjuration handbook doesn't seem to have a thread yet for some reason.

Anyway, I wanted to ask if the new companion archetypes could be applied to a Ghost Sovereign's Twilight Courtiers. They work like summoned companions, but have some different rules, so I was wondering.

[A.J.Gibson]

This might be the wrong place, but the Conjuration handbook doesn't seem to have a thread yet for some reason.

Anyway, I wanted to ask if the new companion archetypes could be applied to a Ghost Sovereign's Twilight Courtiers. They work like summoned companions, but have some different rules, so I was wondering.

There is currently no way to errata the Ghost Sovereign with more up-to-date options, but it wouldn't be inappropriate for the GM to allow this.

[Gee-chan]

It is more a case of there not being any wording on the archetypes themselves to include or preclude unusual features that act like conjuration companions but slightly different.

So, a clarification on whether or not they are only for companions directly gained from the Sphere itself would be appreciated.

[Zsaber0]

There is a Conjuration handbook?

[EldritchWeaver]

There is a Conjuration handbook?

It's in the playtest limbo between existing and non-existing.

[A.J.Gibson]

It is more a case of there not being any wording on the archetypes themselves to include or preclude unusual features that act like conjuration companions but slightly different.

So, a clarification on whether or not they are only for companions directly gained from the Sphere itself would be appreciated.

"designed as if they were creatures summoned using the Conjuration sphere"

Admittedly, I didn't see this coming when the I wrote the GS, I really just wanted it to have different creatures to summon, but didn't want to have to design my own creatures or pick something out of the bestiaries. I would say that any companion you can get with the conjuration sphere by itself is legal.