Girl Genius XXI: Cancel the Jugglers

[Shining Wrath]

Since Beetleburg was in what we call Romania, Romanian is probably her native tongue. But I'd assume she's familiar with several languages. A friend married a woman from the area (Moldavia) and she speaks about six languages. No Sparkiness required.

There's a reason why a region divided into small relatively powerless entities is referred to as "Balkanized".

[geoduck]

The GG print novels establish that Romanian is Agatha's native tongue and the official language of the Wulfenbach Empire. It's also noted that thanks to Dr. Beetle's teachings, she speaks numerous other languages.

[eschmenk]

Since Beetleburg was in what we call Romania, Romanian is probably her native tongue. But I'd assume she's familiar with several languages. A friend married a woman from the area (Moldavia) and she speaks about six languages. No Sparkiness required.

Actually, that area had several Germanic settlements located there. The city that Mechanicsburg seems to be based on was one of them.

The GG print novels establish that Romanian is Agatha's native tongue and the official language of the Wulfenbach Empire. It's also noted that thanks to Dr. Beetle's teachings, she speaks numerous other languages.

Err, OK. Of course, Agatha wasn't raised in Mechanicsburg. I think the people there probably speak mostly German, though. But Agatha doesn't speak with the Germanic accents that the Jaegers do and the townspeople (sometimes?) do. Maybe speaking with the mock German accents means they are speaking German, otherwise not?

[memnarch]

...
Err, OK. Of course, Agatha wasn't raised in Mechanicsburg. I think the people there probably speak mostly German, though. But Agatha doesn't speak with the Germanic accents that the Jaegers do and the townspeople (sometimes?) do. Maybe speaking with the mock German accents means they are speaking German, otherwise not?

That'd make sense to me, though I always took it to mean that the jaegers speak like they do because they're from a much older time and never bothered to try and learn the more modern speech style.

[Rogar Demonblud]

On a reread, I noticed that Tarvek seems to be giving Seffie a lesson in tradecraft. And it occurred to me that they're probably more alike (and more like Gramma) than either is like Tweedle.

[geoduck]

That'd make sense to me, though I always took it to mean that the jaegers speak like they do because they're from a much older time and never bothered to try and learn the more modern speech style.

I think it's the other way around, they've deliberately retained and cultivated their old accent.

[eee]

RE Agatha's native tongue: It occurs to me we may be looking at this wrong, and it may matter less where Agatha was raised than who she was raised by. Punch and Judy and Barry were from Mechanicsburg; I would assume they could speak whatever is spoken there, AND the language of whatever place they were in.

It also occurs to me this is academic, as no matter what language people are speaking in the comic, we're going to read it as English. Beetleberg, Castle Wulfenbach with people from all over the Empire and beyond, Strumhalten, Mechanicsburg, now Paris: All English. The only people who we don't understand are the Geisters. Which is too bad, as some of the things they've been saying look interesting...

[eschmenk]

RE Agatha's native tongue: It occurs to me we may be looking at this wrong, and it may matter less where Agatha was raised than who she was raised by. Punch and Judy and Barry were from Mechanicsburg; I would assume they could speak whatever is spoken there, AND the language of whatever place they were in.

Err, Punch didn't speak any language when he was raising Agatha.

I suspect that they were hiding the fact that they were from Mechanicsburg, so Judy would probably have used Romanian as the normal language in the house. But, yes, it would make sense that Agatha was taught German as a second language.

I also agree that it's all academic. In the comic, it's as if there is only one universal European language and only languages as exotic as Skiff and Geisterspeak can't be understood by everyone.

[HandofShadows]

Actually when Gil was loopy and thought he was in Paris he was speaking French. So everything doesn't alwasy get translated.

[lord_khaine]

Kinda sad to see the Master actually is the same sort of horrid monster as most other sparks we have seen in charge. I mean, it certainly dont look like anyone were given the chance to escape before an entire building vanished.

[The Glyphstone]

Kinda sad to see the Master actually is the same sort of horrid monster as most other sparks we have seen in charge. I mean, it certainly dont look like anyone were given the chance to escape before an entire building vanished.

He was trying to get rid of them (and the discoveries they made) by vanishing their building. Giving them the chance to escape would have completely defeated the purpose of vanishing it in the first place.

[DavidSh]

Hungarian is also in common usage in Transylvania. The history of the arrival of the Heterodynes from the east has some resemblance to the arrival of the Hungarians.

[Kantaki]

Kinda sad to see the Master actually is the same sort of horrid monster as most other sparks we have seen in charge. I mean, it certainly dont look like anyone were given the chance to escape before an entire building vanished.

A tyrant ruling with a iron fist employs drastic measures to protect the base of his power.
How surprising.

I mean this is the guy who more or less tells visitors „break my rules and I turn you into a marionette for Paris’s theatres.”
This is actually surprisingly kind as far as drastic measures go.

Nothing the Baron wouldn't have done.
Just on a smaller scale.

I mean can you imagine what Martellus would do in Voltaire’s shoes?
Or Lucrezia for that matter?

[eschmenk]

He was trying to get rid of them (and the discoveries they made) by vanishing their building. Giving them the chance to escape would have completely defeated the purpose of vanishing it in the first place.

Yes, and it's not as if they wouldn't have known the risks they were taking. If they had any sense, they wouldn't have been looking for information that would make them a threat to the MoP. Of course, if they had sense, that would pretty much mean that they wouldn't have been sparky enough to find it the information in the first place.

Also, who knows how much of stories like this are true? Compare that story, in which Tarvek hints that he left other students holding the bag (something Seffie would think was clever) and he didn't seem to have any problems with Gil, to the sob story he told Moloch and Violetta. They paint rather different pictures, don't they?

To me, this is just some of the fun stuff that's in GG that I don't take too seriously. We already knew that the MoP tries to be benevolent, but he can be ruthless. Like Klaus, any threat to his power may be dealt with very harshly.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I think Tarvek's point was less 'leaving them holding the bag' and more 'being smart enough to RUN!' Which is a point Seffie could stand to learn. As a wise man said (sang), "Know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, know when to run."

[eschmenk]

I think Tarvek's point was less 'leaving them holding the bag' and more 'being smart enough to RUN!' Which is a point Seffie could stand to learn. As a wise man said (sang), "Know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, know when to run."

I know what Tarvek's main point was. It wasn't what you said; it was that you needed to know when to run. (Yes, he was bragging some, too, but that seemed to be secondary.) However, I didn't say that I was trying to explain what Tarvek was saying. I assumed that readers could figure that out for themselves. Instead, I was pointing out that there were some very noticeable differences between the two stories. In one, Gil kept giving the bag to poor, innocent, uninvolved Tarvek and leaving him with it; in the other, although Tarvek didn't actually give other people the bag, he did leave them holding it. Do you understand now?

Oh, yeah, one more thing: Leaving someone else with the bag usually means that you were smart enough to get away (with the goods) in time. It's not a separate concept.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Now that you unpack that a bit, I can see your point. Although I believe Tarvek's point about being smart enough to run after you do something to piss off one of the most powerful Sparks in existence isn't leaving someone holding the bag. They've seen the craters after other people's 'successes', they should now to run too. If Sparks actually had survival instincts.

As towards the change in the lines about him and Gil, I can think of three interpretations.
1. He's referring to those adventures with Zola, not the code-cracking clubs
2. It's more of the personality drift we've seen in the writing
3. He's not trying to poison the well with Agatha

I lied, I thought of a fourth: He knows bad mouthing Gil to Seffie will get him curbstomped so thoroughly he'll pop out in Australia.

[eschmenk]

Three things: (Let's see if I can avoid imitating Monty Python's Spanish Inquisition)

1) Yes, I was using the expression about holding the bag loosely.

2) It's one thing to know that there will be a time when you need to run. It's another to know that the time is NOW!

3) An additional reason for the differences: back when Tarvek was telling the story to Violetta and Moloch, Tarvek was still trying to make Violetta underestimate him. It's not surprising that Gil won and Tarvek lost in those stories. He's not trying to make people underestimate him anymore, though.

4) The differences are probably due to multiple factors, not just one.

5) There probably is some truth to both sets of stories, but neither gives the full picture and either one or both could contain exaggerations. Even if something like the MoP disappearing the building and inhabitants was undeniably canonical, I wouldn't worry about it too much. I think Phil and Kaja put things like that in the story to make it more fun; If they are upsetting, I think that's a sign that they are being taken too seriously.

6) And an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope. DAMMIT!

[keybounce]

Panels 5 and 6 of the new comic make me think that Collette is actually a computer-AI spark.

[factotum]

Panels 5 and 6 of the new comic make me think that Collette is actually a computer-AI spark.

Um, why? She's literally said in the last couple of strips that she's *not* a Spark, and I don't see anything in those panels that suggest she might be an AI. Don't forget that Tarvek noticed the discrepancy in the machine input before she did, and he's definitely not an AI!

[Aidan305]

I can see from those two panels why all her friends expect that she's going to become a spark some day though. That's some seriously sparky talk going on there.

[Shining Wrath]

Yeek, indeed. Daddy is angry. Daddy can make people vanish, and does.
Collette has figured out how Beausoliel hides in the subsystems. It sounds as though all the Master need do is reboot from a clean backup, so to speak.

[lord_khaine]

Now that you unpack that a bit, I can see your point. Although I believe Tarvek's point about being smart enough to run after you do something to piss off one of the most powerful Sparks in existence isn't leaving someone holding the bag. They've seen the craters after other people's 'successes', they should now to run too. If Sparks actually had survival instincts.

Thats the hypocrisy i pointed out though. The Master allows people to examine his systems because it help figuring out weaknesses in them. But prombtly vanishes those that actually succeed in finding anything.

[The Glyphstone]

I don't see anything hypocritical about it. If anything, it's generous of him to spare the ones who fail to discover anything meaningful, rather than just pre-emptively killing anyone who tries just in case. It's not like he encourages or pays them.

[lord_khaine]

Now that you unpack that a bit, I can see your point. Although I believe Tarvek's point about being smart enough to run after you do something to piss off one of the most powerful Sparks in existence isn't leaving someone holding the bag. They've seen the craters after other people's 'successes', they should now to run too. If Sparks actually had survival instincts.

Thats the hypocrisy i pointed out though. The Master allows people to examine his systems because it help figuring out weaknesses in them. But prombtly vanishes those that actually succeed in finding anything.
Had he just plain forbidden anyone from attempting anything then i would just had though him harsh. Even though it also does seem to pick off a few civilians.

But so far the only fair ruler we have seen in action is Klaus. And i guess partly Agatha though she were mostly busy.

[eschmenk]

Um, why? She's literally said in the last couple of strips that she's *not* a Spark, and I don't see anything in those panels that suggest she might be an AI. Don't forget that Tarvek noticed the discrepancy in the machine input before she did, and he's definitely not an AI!

However, in the second panel: "tch— You're thinking organically." That hints that Collette doesn't think organically. Collette was psyching herself out earlier, so she wasn't working at her full potential. Beyond that, although we can't be sure what she managed to figure out because she didn't explain much of it, but it seemed as though she was at least one step ahead of Tarvek. What Tarvek was figuring out wasn't very important, so Collette just started ignoring him and figured out things for herself, while Tarvek gave up and talked to Seffie. Tarvek was more vocal about what he was figuring out, but it doesn't mean that he was doing better.

[Shining Wrath]

I think it is possible that Collette is not a Spark - merely a plain ordinary garden variety genius, whose intellect can be applied to multiple types of problems, including ones that don't particularly interest her. And also possibly including social skills and figuring out how people think, which is often a deficiency in Sparks (Baron Wulfenbach and the Master may be exceptions).

[Rogar Demonblud]

Thats the hypocrisy i pointed out though. The Master allows people to examine his systems because it help figuring out weaknesses in them. But prombtly vanishes those that actually succeed in finding anything.

Well, it's not like they signed NDAs.

Plus, governments make people who cross lines disappear all the time. Usually into some form of prison. The French even have a phrase for it. Pour encourager les autres, roughly translated as 'so others get the right idea'.

[eschmenk]

Well, it's not like they signed NDAs.

Plus, governments make people who cross lines disappear all the time. Usually into some form of prison. The French even have a phrase for it. Pour encourager les autres, roughly translated as 'so others get the right idea'.

And sometimes gangsters disappear into witness protection programs and sometimes black-hat hackers disappear and become white-hat hackers working with the government or whatever and sometimes spies disappear...

What the MoP is doing is analogous to the cat and mouse games that often occur in the real world. Governments know the other side has spies. They will let them operate and try to keep an eye on them. They only react if they catch them going too far. The same sort of thing happens with hackers in a lot of cases.

[halfeye]

And sometimes gangsters disappear into witness protection programs and sometimes black-hat hackers disappear and become white-hat hackers working with the government or whatever and sometimes spies disappear...

Jimmy Hoffa ...