Erfworld Thread IX: By the Flower and Gray Skull

[Welf]

I like how the golden dwagon seems to angrily glare at Jillian at Jillian in every panel. In the update with Marie the dwagons above the portal seem to smile at her. Nice touch. Looks like the city wants to get rid of Jillian and have GK back. And since Jed we know this might be literately true.

[eschmenk]

I like how the golden dwagon seems to angrily glare at Jillian at Jillian in every panel. In the update with Marie the dwagons above the portal seem to smile at her. Nice touch. Looks like the city wants to get rid of Jillian and have GK back. And since Jed we know this might be literately true.

No, the city can't have opinions. You are reading way to much into a decoration that's simply supposed to look fierce. Jed is something different.

[Kornaki]

https://wiki.erfworld.com/Hvs.tCF_59

“I think it has a very strong sense of Loyalty, actually,” said Isaac. “Your casters uncovered something primal about Erfworld, that cities in a sense like to be owned. That they enjoy being fought over. I’d say it’s something important to our understanding of Erfworld.”

I don't know what this says about the decorations.

[eschmenk]

Yes, I know about that. But cities aren't sentient like Jed is.

Until proven otherwise, I think this is yet another case of someone confusing correlation with causality. Yes, Jillian was there at the same place as a scowling dragon. That doesn't mean that Jillian being there cause the decoration to scowl!

The dwagon decorations had the same facial expression back in Book 2. Hopefully that settles the matter.

[Anteros]

It's definitely implied that even non Jed cities enjoy being fought over, which does imply they have sentience of some level, even if they cannot express it like Jed.

For the happiness vs scowling decorations, it's very likely an intentional artistic choice. There is no need to be so hostile about this.

[guttering flame]

https://wiki.erfworld.com/Hvs.tCF_59

“I think it has a very strong sense of Loyalty, actually,” said Isaac. “Your casters uncovered something primal about Erfworld, that cities in a sense like to be owned. That they enjoy being fought over. I’d say it’s something important to our understanding of Erfworld.”

I don't know what this says about the decorations.

The question is, does any of that loyalty linger after its conquered by a different side? When Jillian conquers GK city and claims it as her own, does ICFYS recall that Stanley was its former master or is all its loyalty now focused on Jillian? So far Jed hasn't shown any fondness to Jetstone and Trameniss as far as we know.

[eschmenk]

It's definitely implied that even non Jed cities enjoy being fought over, which does imply they have sentience of some level, even if they cannot express it like Jed.

For the happiness vs scowling decorations, it's very likely an intentional artistic choice. There is no need to be so hostile about this.

This conversation is just stupid! The city is Jillian's city now. By your logic, the city should be happy being Jillian's city. Why would that make a decoration scowl?

And yes, of course, it was an artistic choice to make the dragons look stern and mean. That's what Stanley would have wanted. The artwork was to satisfy him. That's obviously consistent with my point, so why in the heck did you bring it up!

If the decorations look the same now as they did before, how can they be responding to Jillian's presence? It's kind of ridiculous to think that they decided to frown when they were first created because they knew that Jillian would be standing there some day!

And yes, I'm annoyed because I don't want to have to deal with things that seem so thoughtless and stupid.

[Anteros]

{Scrubbed}

[Bobb]

No, the city can't have opinions. You are reading way to much into a decoration that's simply supposed to look fierce. Jed is something different.

No, the poster can't have opinions. You are reading way too much into a post that's simply there to inflate post count.
You are something different.

[eschmenk]

Ok. I might get in trouble for this, but enough is enough. The only thing thoughtless here is you.
You don't get to call other people or their opinions stupid just because you disagree with them.
You don't get to decide what other people get to talk about.
You don't get to decide what direction the thread goes.
You don't get to decide anything aside from your own opinions and when to share them. I'll thank you to be civil when you do so.

I wasn't hostile until you started the argument with me. You accused me of being hostile before I was hostile.

No, the poster can't have opinions. You are reading way too much into a post that's simply there to inflate post count.
You are something different.

You are accusing Sweetie Welf of just inflating post count? I only see a handfull of posts, but they didn't seem that bad to me.

I may be something different, though.

[Anteros]

I wasn't hostile until you started the argument with me. You accused me of being hostile before I was hostile.

Yes, you were. Even if you were telling the truth here, my saying "there is no need to be hostile" doesn't give you the right to call other posters stupid.

[eschmenk]

Yes, you were. Even if you were telling the truth here, my saying "there is no need to be hostile" doesn't give you the right to call other posters stupid.

I didn't call anyone anything. I was talking about the comments, not the people making the comments. You can reread them and see for yourself.

[Bobb]

You are accusing Sweetie Welf of just inflating post count?

No.

I was trying to be silly. You are coming on a bit thick here.

[Anteros]

I didn't call anyone anything. I was talking about the comments, not the people making the comments.

So if I made a post about your comments saying "your opinions are so stupid! I can't believe you're wasting my time on this" you wouldn't be offended? Because that's what you did to the other poster.

[eschmenk]

So if I made a post about your comments saying "your opinions are so stupid! I can't believe you're wasting my time on this" you wouldn't be offended? Because that's what you did to the other poster.

No, I didn't do that to any other poster. Reread the comments. And please don't make false accusations.

No.

I was trying to be silly. You are coming on a bit thick here.

That was pretty random. Humor sometimes doesn't come across so well.

[Anteros]

No, I didn't do that to any other poster. Reread the comments. And please don't make false accusations.

This conversation is just stupid!

And yes, I'm annoyed because I don't want to have to deal with things that seem so thoughtless and stupid.

You're just straight up lying at this point.

Edit: Whatever, I'm blocking you, reporting my own posts, and moving on.

[eschmenk]

You're just straight up lying at this point.

Edit: Whatever, I'm blocking you, reporting my own posts, and moving on.

Reread the comments!

[-D-]

The question is, does any of that loyalty linger after its conquered by a different side? When Jillian conquers GK city and claims it as her own, does ICFYS recall that Stanley was its former master or is all its loyalty now focused on Jillian? So far Jed hasn't shown any fondness to Jetstone and Trameniss as far as we know.

Keep in mind, cities like being fought over. FAQ didn't so much win, as GK retreated. The fight might have been too little for a city of its self determined importance.

So city could be unhappy with Jillian, since the fight wasn't as good as the last. Otoh city could be pissed, it's not capital anymore.

[Aquillion]

As someone pointed out, though, the dwagons' expressions when Marie arrived looked happy on the left and had an "oh yeah, kick their butts" expression on the right.

I think the easiest explanation is that it's just the artist having a bit of fun. It could also be a little bit of signamancy left over from the city originally being GK's capital.

[Razade]

It's just art, sometimes a cigar is a cigar.

[-D-]

It's just art, sometimes a cigar is a cigar.

And sometimes a cigar is a giant vagina in the desert that swallows men whole, i.e. Sarlac pit.

Translation: if this was any other comic, you would be right. But this is Erfworld. It has both Signamancy and the fact that cities are somewhat sentient.

Don's last meal included oranges! As in, bad stuff happens from Godfather - oranges. It's hard to blame people from reading into subtext, when subtext is textual.

[Razade]

Hey, if it proves to be more than just art I will (as I have in the past) change my stance and own up to it. It's more than I can say for some 'round these parts. At the moment though, I choose to be skeptical on this until more evidence comes forward other than it just being art.

[Welf]

This is not coincidence. This is a comic, a visual medium. Panel layout and content are deliberate choices to convey message and impressions.
the dwagon is visible in 3 panels. Each contains Jillian, the dwagon is placed in the middle in two panels, and in one to her right, much more visible than Duncan. Each panel has a different perspective, so each was designed independently, and each required effort to place the dwagon. And in every case it was growling at Jillian.
So I see three options. The most unlikely is that Xin was having a bit of fun and put it in as an Easter egg. But this is placed to prominently, and there is to much effort put into this. Easter eggs are subtle. Second option is that is that is implies the city of Gobwin Knob does have bad feelings for Jillian, and this is supposed to represent this. Third option is that this is about Duncan, and represents his discontent with Jillian in the art. Particular in the third dwagon panel this would be useful. Jillian is the focus of the panel, and it shows she is abrasive and ignores Duncan's objections, and diminishes his role as chief warlord. This is about her, and how she is a **** (vagina?) and not creating loyalty by threatening her people respectfully. This is not the same as not respecting her, this is about her form and manners. Which is a stark contrast to Stanley and Ceasar, who respect these traditional bounds and let her warlords do their job. We got a bit of insight how Ceasar, Vinny and Ansom felt about their jobs, and and of the last updates was about exactly that.
Anyway, this panel and the two before it was about Jillian. By giving removing Duncan from the panels, showing him with his back we can focus i her. The dwagon however represents the mood of Duncan, and fives the panels a subconscious mood of discontent and anger.

[-D-]

Hey, if it proves to be more than just art I will (as I have in the past) change my stance and own up to it. It's more than I can say for some 'round these parts. At the moment though, I choose to be skeptical on this until more evidence comes forward other than it just being art.

Even if it's not true, I don't see the point in trying to shut down any discussion. Especially, since it's actually plausible and supported in text, unlike some theories (Archon masquerading as Thinkamancer Judge ).

[guttering flame]

This is not coincidence. This is a comic, a visual medium. Panel layout and content are deliberate choices to convey message and impressions.
the dwagon is visible in 3 panels. Each contains Jillian, the dwagon is placed in the middle in two panels, and in one to her right, much more visible than Duncan. Each panel has a different perspective, so each was designed independently, and each required effort to place the dwagon. And in every case it was growling at Jillian.
So I see three options. The most unlikely is that Xin was having a bit of fun and put it in as an Easter egg. But this is placed to prominently, and there is to much effort put into this. Easter eggs are subtle. Second option is that is that is implies the city of Gobwin Knob does have bad feelings for Jillian, and this is supposed to represent this. Third option is that this is about Duncan, and represents his discontent with Jillian in the art. Particular in the third dwagon panel this would be useful. Jillian is the focus of the panel, and it shows she is abrasive and ignores Duncan's objections, and diminishes his role as chief warlord. This is about her, and how she is a **** (vagina?) and not creating loyalty by threatening her people respectfully. This is not the same as not respecting her, this is about her form and manners. Which is a stark contrast to Stanley and Ceasar, who respect these traditional bounds and let her warlords do their job. We got a bit of insight how Ceasar, Vinny and Ansom felt about their jobs, and and of the last updates was about exactly that.
Anyway, this panel and the two before it was about Jillian. By giving removing Duncan from the panels, showing him with his back we can focus i her. The dwagon however represents the mood of Duncan, and fives the panels a subconscious mood of discontent and anger.

The second dragon (in the big, 4th panel) is glaring at Duncan actually. And the two dragon a few pages ago were smiling at the invading GKber. So it seems this city is still cheering for Stanley's team. Why?

1) As D said, maybe Jillian easy conquest was a disappointment after the Volcano-defense Parson pulled off for this city.

2) Sizemore and Maggie put a lot of effort into building the current city. Parson even named the streets. Jillian on the other hand just changed the banners and the name. (The GK team in Spacerock kept their new city mostly the same beside imbuing its Tower with speech and intelligence. We don't know exactly how much Jetstone redecorated it after they conquered it but they ruled there for a long time. So if design quality and effort put into it count Spacerock could have lingering feelings for the Jetstones)

3) The name 'I'm Coming For You Stanley'. Maybe the name affects the City's feelings for Stanley. Maybe it's 'coming' for Stanley and is feeling really really good about Stanley.

4) Charlie was behind Jillian's attack on the city. If the city can remember and understand such things, it could resent Charlie for inciting the Goblins to revolt and stab King Saline in the back (a popular theory) so it'll hate Jillian as an agent of Charlie.

[HandofShadows]

Another reason that the city might be "cheering" for Stanley that didn't Jillian say she was goign to raze the city before she left? You can BET a city would not be happy about somethign like that.

[eschmenk]

Hey, if it proves to be more than just art I will (as I have in the past) change my stance and own up to it. It's more than I can say for some 'round these parts. At the moment though, I choose to be skeptical on this until more evidence comes forward other than it just being art.

I will point out that I said, "Until proven otherwise..." myself, just in case people forgot about that. I will admit that I didn't realize the ones near the portal had smiles. That's still not enough to convince me, though.

Keep in mind, cities like being fought over. FAQ didn't so much win, as GK retreated. The fight might have been too little for a city of its self determined importance.

So city could be unhappy with Jillian, since the fight wasn't as good as the last. Otoh city could be pissed, it's not capital anymore.

Why would the city blame Jillian for what GK did? It is Faq's capital now. That's why Marie could use the portal. If anything, it would be mad at GK for switching capitals and happy that Jillian reestablished it as a capital.

I suppose it might be possible for the city to sense that Jillian preferred Faq city, or be unhappy that Jillian didn't really intend to make ICFYS her capital, I guess. Or maybe the artwork could know that they weren't Jillian's choice. Or maybe it's an art vs. art thing; GK's red color clashes with Faq's cyan color? I don't "get" art, so I don't know. Anyway, I still want more proof before I jump on board.

[Kornaki]

On another topic didn't sizemore get the pliers back from Janis? How is this supposed to work?

[eschmenk]

On another topic didn't sizemore get the pliers back from Janis? How is this supposed to work?

Georgia Power also raised a utilitarian point about the giants not fitting through the portal. Maybe Marie was just pretending that was the plan in order to charge Georgia Power up?

A third thing that seems wrong with the plan is that Marie said that "first we take the city." Wouldn't the portal go inactive at that point? GK could switch capitals back to ICFYS, but I doubt Jed would be happy. Alternatively, Marie might leave Jillian alive and in the garrison, but effectively take the city. Either solution seems messy, though.

This plan doesn't seem like a very good one. I don't think it will work out the way Marie said it would. I don't know if she knows better, though, despite being a predictomancer.

[-D-]

Why would the city blame Jillian for what GK did? It is Faq's capital now.

The whole city things, reminds me of wands in Harry Potter. If you win them in a fight, they are yours. But if the enemy flees and leaves the wand, the wand isn't totally yours. Whatever FAQ did, could displease the city who demands the fight to be at least this huge for it to like its new occupant.

If anything, it would be mad at GK for switching capitals and happy that Jillian reestablished it as a capital.

It could be. We don't know much about cities, other than they like being fought over. Whether they like being the capital is a bit trickier.