The Verdure [Base Class][PEACH]

[Kaskus]

Man that was a fast response!

Also: Added Life Link to Companion Adaptations list

Added Twin Companion to the Companion and Pinancle Adaptation lists

note to self- pick one from Spontaneous Stride and Merge to turn into Dominion pinnacle

I feel like Merge works / fits best for a Dominion Pinnacle. Take out the dispel part at the end and change the entangle reference to dominion and good to go?

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Idea for Pinnacle Fruit...

Golden Apple (Fruit, Pinnacle):
You may expend a use of your bear fruit ability to cause an affected plant to bear a single Golden Apple. Any creature that consumes a Golden Apple is affected as if by Overwhelming Presence with an effective Caster level equal to your Verdure level (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-sp...ming-presence/).

[aimlessPolymath]

Needs a few words about how you can't maintain your Dominion while Merged, so it shrinks, but otherwise yeah (otherwise, there would be no way to harm you).

I like the fruit! Unfortunately, it doesn't work- overwhelming presence targets the affected creatures.

Apple from the Tree of Life:
A creature that consumes the affected fruit is affected by a Greater Age Resistance spell for 24 hours. Should they die during that time, they are immediately affected by Breath of Life; however, instead of its normal healing, the spell carries the effect of a Heal spell, and can restore those affected by a death effect.

On mobile so I can't italicize like I normally would- it's basically a 1-up mushroom, though. Less of an enhancing buff, more of an Apple of Immortality. Alternatively, could also throw together an apple with the power of the Hypercognition or Cosmic Awareness psionic powers for the Tree of Knowledge. Lots of utility there.

[Kaskus]

I was trying to think of how to do an "Immortality Apple." What you propose sounds good but I am too tired to properly analyze it

When I am better rested, I will take a look at the other abilities you suggest. Thanks again!

[Kaskus]

Okay, I have now read Hypercognition and Cosmic Awareness...

I am leaning towards Cosmic Awareness for Tree of Knowledge. I like your idea for the immortality apple or Tree of Life

Would it be too much to put Tree of Life / Tree of Knowledge as one ability that lets them make one fruit or the other but to choose which time? Make it so a given creature can be affected by only one or the other once within a 24-hour period and also make only one such fruit able to be created each day?

Golden Apple (Fruit, Pinnacle):
Once per day, you may use your Bear Fruit ability to create a golden apple from either the tree of life or the tree of knowledge. The effects of the apple end after 24 hours and a single creature can only be affected by one Golden Apple in a 24 hour period, regardless of which type.
Tree of Life: Any creature that consumes a Golden Apple of Life is affected as if by the Greater Age Resistance spell. Should they die during that time, they are also immediately affected as if by the Breath of Life spell; however, instead of its normal healing, the spell carries the effect of a maximized Heal spell, and can restore those affected by death effects.
Tree of Knowledge: Any creature that consumed a Golden Apple of Knowledge is affected as if by a maximized version of the Cosmic Awareness psionic discipline.

[aimlessPolymath]

Sounds fine!
Note that Cosmic Awareness is actually literally Moment of Prescience, so renaming it is probably a good idea to make it SRD-compatible. Maximized doesn't mean much in rules- do you mean the hours/level version?

1/day makes sense.

I like the Pinnacle overall.

[Kaskus]

I wasn't thinking properly of how maximize works, i think. My intent was to grant the +25 bonus, which is the maximum bonus possible. Since the Verdure doesn't have a proper "caster level," any caster level effects need to be defined in the power. BMB is the stand in but I wanted to boost it a little bit from the +15 that would give them...

Golden Apple (Fruit, Pinnacle):
Once per day, you may use your Bear Fruit ability to create a golden apple from either the tree of life or the tree of knowledge. The effects of the apple end after 24 hours and a single creature can only be affected by one Golden Apple in a 24 hour period, regardless of which type.
Tree of Life: Any creature that consumes a Golden Apple of Life is affected as if by the Greater Age Resistance spell. Should they die during that time, they are also immediately affected as if by the Breath of Life spell; however, instead of its normal healing, the spell carries the effect of a maximized Heal spell, and can restore those affected by death effects.
Tree of Knowledge: Any creature that consumed a Golden Apple of Knowledge is granted a sixth sense. One time while under the effect of a Golden Apple of Knowledge, you may gain a +25 insight bonus on any single attack roll, combat maneuver check, opposed ability or skill check, or saving throw. Alternatively, you can apply the insight bonus to your AC against a single attack (even if flat-footed). Activating the effect doesn't take an action; you can even activate it on another character's turn. You must choose to use this ability before you make the roll it is to modify. Once used, the effect ends.


I just went ahead and put the full effect in the description. What do you think?

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EDIT / ADDITION:

Merge (Domain, Pinnacle):
You gain the ability to merge with the area affected by your Aura of Dominion. When using Merge, you literally become one with your dominion. As a move action you may merge into your dominion and may stay merged as long as you desire or rematerialize at any point withing the area as a move action. While merged, you may still use any of your senses or abilities as though you occupied any square of the dominion, though it's center remains static so long you you are merged. Once you rematerialize, your aura of dominion shifts such that you are once more at its center.

What do you think of the Dominion version of Merge?

[aimlessPolymath]

Golden Apple is perfect- just need to change Tree of Knowledge effect to third person ("You" vs. "Any creature who consumes... they can... ")

Merge looks great; it's missing an equivalent to the other Merge in terms of ways to remove it/counterplay. Two things:
-To distinguish it from spontaneous stride, what if you can only reappear in the center of the Dominion?
-What do you think of "anyone who dispels the center of your Dominion immediately forces you to rematerialize + you take some damage" as a downside?
Picture it: A team of adventurers are forced to fight their way through continuous layers of the hedge maze, past conjured Plants and the efforts of the Verdure to disrupt and disorient them, only to reach the center. Then, they dispel Merge, and the final battle begins.

[Kaskus]

Aura of Dominion is a Supernatural ability and thus, not subject to dispel magic. Adaptations are likewise supernatural, which is why i took the part out about being ejected by dispel. Entangle is a Spell like ability so it could be dispelled.

Do you think Aura of Dominion should be a Spell Like ability rather than a Supernatural ability?
- Not my favorite option

Why wouldn't they dispel it before hacking their way through the hedge maze?

Perhaps we specify that the Merge ability specifically is Spell Like?
- I like this better than making the whole domain (Sp).

Thoughts?

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Golden Apple has been added to the Fruit Adaptations list and the Pinnacle Adaptations list.

Once we get merge figured out, that will give us a dominion pinnacle. After that, Blossom will be the only category without one. For Blossom, do you think the Pinnacle should add higher level spells or modify the way blossom works in some way like the ability to select a metamagic feat and apply it for free?

What about an ability to make a transformative blossom which grants you plant traits similar to the 20th level verdant bloodline ability? Your Body becomes a seed and 1 day later a plant grows in your likeness and becomes your new body. Something like that? Is that too abstract for Blossom?

This is the 20th level Verdant Bloodline Ability...

Shepherd of the Trees (Su): At 20th level, your verdant heritage fully manifests. You gain a +4 natural armor bonus. You gain immunity to paralysis, poison, polymorph, sleep, and stunning, and you gain tremorsense 30 feet even when not rooted.

[aimlessPolymath]

We could make the Merge abillity spelllike- that would make the most sense.
They would have to make their way through because (unless I misworded it) it's only ended when they dispel the origin point of the Dominion- the Dominion/merge is effectively maintained by that point. It's analogous to the fact that you have to cast dispel magic on the source of a continuous spell effect (such as a constant magic item) to disable the effect, sorta.

My immediate reaction to the transformative blossom/resurrection ability is that it doesn' t match the rest of the class feature well. Spell Blossom as we used it is basically where we shoved a whole lot of crowd-control and debuff abilities, making it the offensive counterpart to Fruit- I feel like the pinnacle ability should reflect that.
Borrowing the idea of a 1/day alpha strike from Fruit:
Spell Garden: (even if we change the ability, can we use the name somewhere?)
Once per day, as a full-round action, you may expend a use of Spell Blossom to create a storm of magic. When you do, you simultaneously cast each spell you could cast through Spell Blossom. The areas of the spells may not overlap. No two spells can target the same creature.

It's possibly unbalanced.

[Kaskus]

Not thinking about balance right now...

What if Spell Garden is an area affect that makes a "mine field" of sorts. You grow a field of spell blossoms and whenever someone moves through a square of it, they have to make a save. If they fail, you select any spell blossom effect you know and they are affected by it? You get to make the selection each time it is triggered and they incur a possible effect every time they move within the area. You could also make it stop their movement like an attack of opportunity. That would make the area very difficult and dangerous to pass though. If that is too much, maybe they can move 5 ft at a time safely?

[Kaskus]

We could make the Merge abillity spelllike- that would make the most sense.
They would have to make their way through because (unless I misworded it) it's only ended when they dispel the origin point of the Dominion- the Dominion/merge is effectively maintained by that point. It's analogous to the fact that you have to cast dispel magic on the source of a continuous spell effect (such as a constant magic item) to disable the effect, sorta.

Dispel Magic can be used to dispel area effects but says nothing about needing to target the center of such an effect. Also the range on dispel magic is greater than the radius of an aura is likely to be so the center could be targeted from outside the area anyhow. At 5th level, when a Verdure gets the aura and also when a wizard would get access to dispel magic - the aura will have a radius of 10 ft., while the dispel magic has a range of 150 ft. At level 20, the aura is 40 ft and the dispel magic is 300 ft.

With that said, I do think a way of forcefully ejecting them is a good idea but I am not sure how to implement it in a way that is satisfying (to me). Maybe they leave a mark at the center where they merge (like the design that the rainbow bridge leaves in the Thor movie). Damaging the sign could eject the Verdure. It would prevent it from being range-dispelled and would require an enemy target the center specifically. Still subject to ranged attacks but it would force them to target the center, which they may not be able to see due to hedge maze, etc.

What do you think of that?

Am I misreading or misunderstanding dispel?

[aimlessPolymath]

Honestly, I'd be OK with that being a normal spell blossom ability- a mix between the delayed blossoms and attacks of opportunity (detonate as an immediate action?). It would be an interesting effect which ties into the Verdure's staple battlefield control, and it could act as a sort of soft area denial- "don't go here or else".
Other things that could be built into it- say, the ability for someone with Knowledge(nature) to identify that a spell blossom is unusual, and to ID the specific spell?

It's an interesting ability with some neat counterplay. I think it should come in earlier.

My angle on pinnacle abilities is that either they're the ultimate version of whatever the class does. Plant specialists toss out all their plants at once, Entangle specialists take their movement advantage to the highest level, Companion spec gains even more companions, etc. I don't think it should do anything really new, just supporting using the existing ability to its utmost.

Edit: Whoops, missed that you posted twice.
Damaging the source sounds like as good an option as any. Do also note that the verdure can increase the radius of the Dominion by spending multiple move actions!

Re: magic items: While you can dispel a spell normally (such as an area effect), a magic item with a continuous effect on the user (like with the ring of water walking) will automaticall recreate the effect- thus, you need to dispel the magic item to turn it off.

[Kaskus]

How about a hybrid adaptation...

Spell Garden (Blossom / Entangle):
Pre-req: Improved Spell Blossom Class Feature
You expend a use of your Entangle ability to create a Spell Garden. The area you may affect is the same as that which would be affected by your Entangle ability. Any creature that moves through any space within the Spell Garden must succeed at a reflex save at the same difficulty as your Entangle ability. If a creature fails its save, you may expend a use of Improved Spell Blossom as a free action to cause them to be affected by any effect you can create with your Improved Spell Blossom ability. The effected creature does not get a separate save against the effect although if there would be additional saves in later rounds for persistent effects, they may attempt those saves as normal.

Entangle contributes the "affect an area of plants" effect but the way that area is affected is flavored by spell blossom instead.

What do you think?

We could make an upgrade that allows you to use Greater Spell Blossoms with it as well.

That brings us back to needing a Spell Blossom Pinnacle...

Spell Bouquet (Blossom, Pinnacle):
Once per day, you may expend a use of your Greater Spell Blossom ability to create a Spell Bouquet containing a number of spell blossoms up to your charisma modifier which may be selected form any of the spell blossom effects you know from any of your spell blossom abilities. The bouquet may be activated in the same manner as a spell blossom but it triggers all of its effects simultaneously. if it targets a creature, they must make separate saves for each spell blossom effect that calls for a save.

Re: magic items: While you can dispel a spell normally (such as an area effect), a magic item with a continuous effect on the user (like with the ring of water walking) will automaticall recreate the effect- thus, you need to dispel the magic item to turn it off.

Do we need to specify then that the "mark" is treated as a magic item and that the merge effect is tied to it specifically? How do you think that is best worded?

[Kaskus]

UPDATES!

Spell Garden & Greater Spell Garden added to the Entangle and Spell Blossom Adaptations lists

Spell Bouquet added to the Spell Blossom and Pinnacle Adaptations lists

Entangle version of Merge replaced with Domain version

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I plan on developing a couple more fruit adaptations. I would like to add a couple more blossom adaptations as well (It's currently the only category with less than 10 adaptations).

I would love it if anyone could take a look at the class as a whole freshly and provide any feedback.

@Aimless: Are there any notes / suggestions / etc. that I failed to acknowledge or address or anything you feel still needs to be worked on?

My dream would be for someone to get one of these at their table and send me some playtest feedback!

[aimlessPolymath]

Spell Bouquet + Spell Garden looks good!
I have no outstanding issues with the class. If I had to nitpick, I might flesh out the Spell Blossom list into a full-fledged spell list-like structure, with short descriptions and maybe links. I might also copy and paste most of the text of entangle and the entangled condition into a spoiler under the Entangle class feature.

Do we need to specify then that the "mark" is treated as a magic item and that the merge effect is tied to it specifically? How do you think that is best worded?

Mmm...
"The center of your Dominion controls this effect, and is treated as an active spell for effects which could end ongoing spells; for this purpose, its spell level is 1/2 your Verdure level, and its caster level is your Verdure level. When the effect is ended in this way, you immediately return to a corporeal form in the center of your Dominion."

Unfortunately, a whole lot of homebrew never gets playtested, as far as I know. I'm in college and can't test it during the week, but if you throw together a couple of sample characters (say, level 1, level 7, level 12, or maybe just 7 and 12) I can try and test them in a quick party with some of the iconic characters in a few encounters.

I can also go through the whole class like I did the first time, and try and give feedback from a "guidebook" perspective.

[Kaskus]

UPDATES:

Added verbiage to Merge regarding dispel mechanics.

Added Merciful Fruit and Improved/Greater versions to Fruit Adaptations list

Added an automatic upgrade to Healing Fruit at BMB 11

Entangled Spell Text and Condition Text added to spoilers beneath Entangle Ability

Started adding links / descriptions to Spell Blossom List

[aimlessPolymath]

Healing Fruit now goes from 15 to 100 in one level flat (if two levels after the cleric)
Cure Serious -> Cure Critical at BMB 6, first.

Also, I have now learned about Blend and Discovery Torch for the first time.

Merciful fruit might be somewhat too specific- unless you run into one condition A LOT, it won't be very useful (other than maybe the Healer's Handbook stuff). Maybe grant all three of the basic benefits (Fatigued/Shaken/Sickened), and all three of the 6th level options (Dazed/Diseased/Staggered).

[Kaskus]

Healing Fruit now goes from 15 to 100 in one level flat (if two levels after the cleric)
Cure Serious -> Cure Critical at BMB 6, first.

Healing Fruit Edited. I made it even simpler and had the healing scale with BMB. Check it out and let me know what you think. It maxes out a little weaker than heal but is way more flexible than the previous version.

Also, I have now learned about Blend and Discovery Torch for the first time.

Yay!

Merciful fruit might be somewhat too specific- unless you run into one condition A LOT, it won't be very useful (other than maybe the Healer's Handbook stuff). Maybe grant all three of the basic benefits (Fatigued/Shaken/Sickened), and all three of the 6th level options (Dazed/Diseased/Staggered).

I almost did this and worries it stepped on Paladin but I agree that its not viable without it. The Merciful Fruit chain has been updated.

Question: Is this chain worth 3 adaptations or should they be rolled into 1 with the bumps happening at designated BMB or level points?

[aimlessPolymath]

Healing Fruit looks good now. It's not stepping on Merciful's toes as hard, either, given how Heal cures conditions.

Merciful: They probably shouldn't all be in the same adaptation, no. This is primarily because of the ability to remove disease, which is a campaign-affecting ability. I might decompose Improved into the other two, though- Staggered goes down a step, Diseased and Dazed go up one, then set a level minimum for Greater.

[Kaskus]

Rolled Staggered into the base Merciful Fruit and everything else into Greater Merciful Fruit. I made the more potent condition removals kick in at BMB 7, which is Verdure level 10.

Bear Fruit is acquired at level 3 so if you took the extra adaptation feat then to get healing fruit, you could take merciful fruit at level 4 (1 level after Paladin gets those mercies) and greater merciful fruit at level 6 (same level as Paladin). The more potent removals for greater would still not kick in until level 10 (1 level behind Paladin).

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In other news, I finished the formatting and linking on the Improved Spell Blossom list. I will try and have the Greater Spell Blossom list finished by the end of the weekend.

I also added the description for Black Tentacles under Vine Field for reference. I will also try to put in the spell references for the other spell like abilities before the weekend is up.

If I get really ambitious (or really bored), I will also try to add stats for the wood golems under Verdant Entourage.

Eventually, I will put some sample character stats together as well

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EDIT: Greater Spell Blossom List also formatted / linked!

[Kaskus]

UPDATES:

All Spell Blossom Lists are formatted and linked!
All spell like abilities have their relevant spells listed
The stats for the Advanced Wood Golems created by Verdant Entourage have also been added

Phew!

Am I still missing anything?

[aimlessPolymath]

I don't think so!
I'll start writing my reread- it will likely take a while to do. My first review of this class took a bit over a day (I'll deal with your questions on the Greenguard later), and I'm juggling some other reviews (there's a great Sorcerer rewrite going on) and also classwork.
Key things to consider:
How many situations can this class deal with?
How well can it deal with them?

Post will be edited as I proceed.

Base Class Analysis:
Chassis: d8 hit die, a few relevant skills, wizard-class proficiencies, average BAB, but two good saves. It's solid- the combination of medium BAB but poor proficiencies is somewhat unusual, though.

Class features by level:
1st level:

Spoiler

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There are multiple abilities gained at this level, two of which are the same ability. It's confusing in the table, although not in the text. Perhaps combine them in some form? Plant(1, 1d6) all the way to Plant(5, 10d6), or add a column to indicate damage by level- it's a bit cluttered as it is. It should probably have immunity to ability damage/drain, or have all ability scores nonabilities, or something, though. However, they have 0 hit points at this level by RAW.

Entangle: This is a medium-nasty ability, which includes a pretty great debuff. Level 3 upgrade is in text but not table. It mentions BMB, which should probably be written out somewhere. It's a really nice spell, especially once you get the ability to let your allies ignore it.

Spell Blossom: It's cantrips! I really really like that you linked the spells and included their descriptions- many spell lists just give them out and forget about it. Fairly variable uses. It does give a whole lot of minor options, where most casters only know a few cantrips.

2:

Spoiler

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You get an Adaptation here, which is nice. I'll go over the good/bad picks later.
You also get Mystic Stride, which is very nice in verdure vs. verdure combat, but slightly redundant otherwise. Also, the text says 4th level but the table says 2nd.

3:

Spoiler

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First damage upgrade, important to keep up with martials. You also get Bear Fruit, which by default is sort of a very limited ability? It's a good level for the damage upgrade, which is sorely needed, but Bear Fruit is incredibly weak- to add insult to injury, it's only once per day, and you get it infrequently. Adaptations help it, but it's very weak without adaptations in a way which other abilities aren't.

4:

Spoiler

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Trackless step- nice fluff ability.
Verdant stride: It's a neat ability, if somewhat weak-ish? Mobility is nice, but it's less of a focus for this class. Nice to have, but not critical.
Buuut, more adaptations!

5:

Spoiler

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More damage, and more plants, and Plant Bond- this is a good level, more than previous ones.
Aura of Dominion is decent-ish. Punishing people for moving too much is a neat flip side from Entangle.
Plant Companions are very nice. Somewhat fragile at this level, though? Also, Entangle focused people basically can't take it unless they're very sure about the campaign, since Dominion is the one which guarantees plant life for Entangle to work.

Notes so far: The class is extremely combat-focused so far. There are two noncombat abilities (other than the mobility ones), Spell Blossom and Bear Fruit, and one of them is basically cantrips, and the other is very weak at this point. Outside combat, they don't have much to do.
I'd like to see Verdant Stride slightly tweaked to give a slightly more team-oriented ability set- perhaps Canyon Stride lets them generate some form of ramps, or Vertical Stride lets them cover a wall with plant life to let other people climb it too? Arboreal Stride could be adjusted to be a somewhat later level ability which gives some kind of virtual fly speed (self only) at some later level by having nearby plants lift up the player and carry them around. "Move normally through them" isn't very explicit, and sounds like Woodland Stride.
Bear Fruit is really, really disappointing without adaptation investment- it does practically nothing useful. I'd like to see it give some minor special benefit- maybe a +2 bonus to Fortitude saves for an hour, for example, which would make it a minor defensive buff. (Also, an apple a day keeps the doctor away.)

6:

Spoiler

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Adaptations are nice. This is the first opportunity to get one for your Plant Bond, but it's in an unconfortable position, because this is also the first opportunity to get one for Spell Blossom, which you just got.
Imp. Spell Blossom: This is in a slightly strange position because it turns out to not be spellcasting equivalent. Instead, you need to "prepare spells" a minute before combat by creating the blossoms with one ability, then use them with a separate standard action. It's not spontaneous casting like it looks. That, or the mechanics of Spell Blossom need to be reworked.

7:

Spoiler

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This ability is also in an odd position, because it basically looks like Spell Blossom. Also, it is a tremendously useful lockdown spell. References Friendly Entangle, which doesn't exist. Damage up again is nice.

8:

Spoiler

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Woodland Sight is nice, especially with some Entangle powers, but limited otherwise. Verdant Stride: See level 4. Adaptation is the standout at this level, really.

9:

Spoiler

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Speak With Plants: Oh ho ho. This is the most general-utility option I've seen so far, really... which is a little sad, actually.
Damage up is nice.

10:

Spoiler

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Fast Plant is nice for Plant users, less so for others, but it's needed because you now have your fifth plant. Adaptation is the best thing Entanglers are getting at this point, although the degree to which you can stack on Entangle adaptations keeps it going pretty well.

Notes so far:
Noncombat options are looking a little better now- not a lot, though. It's unclear to what extent Aura of Dominion extends above the ground- it looks like it could be either way, really. Entangle needs plant-generation outside of Aura of Dominion. Spell Blossom mechanics need to be explained- are they still the same as the basic spell blossom? The way it works is confusing, and is subpar compared to normal SLAs. Intentional?

[Kaskus]

First: Thank you so much for doing this - Again!

Base Class Analysis:
Chassis: d8 hit die, a few relevant skills, wizard-class proficiencies, average BAB, but two good saves. It's solid- the combination of medium BAB but poor proficiencies is somewhat unusual, though.

The medium BAB was there primarily due to the original chassis being Druidish and the first version using the characters BAB for the Plants. Since that has been changed, do you think 1/2 BAB is more appropriate? I am fine with 1/2.

1st level:
There are multiple abilities gained at this level, two of which are the same ability. It's confusing in the table, although not in the text. Perhaps combine them in some form? Plant(1, 1d6) all the way to Plant(5, 10d6), or add a column to indicate damage by level- it's a bit cluttered as it is. It should probably have immunity to ability damage/drain, or have all ability scores nonabilities, or something, though. However, they have 0 hit points at this level by RAW.

Added a plant damage column to the table.
Plants are objects so have no ability scores
Changed HP to Verdure level x Cha Mod

Entangle: This is a medium-nasty ability, which includes a pretty great debuff. Level 3 upgrade is in text but not table. It mentions BMB, which should probably be written out somewhere. It's a really nice spell, especially once you get the ability to let your allies ignore it.

Added a note regarding BMB
Added the level 3 upgrade to the table

Spell Blossom: It's cantrips! I really really like that you linked the spells and included their descriptions- many spell lists just give them out and forget about it. Fairly variable uses. It does give a whole lot of minor options, where most casters only know a few cantrips.

In regards to the various Spell Blossom abilities, I kind of initially imagined it as "optional spontaneous casting." The idea (which I now realize I didn't include in the write up) was that these could be grown on the Verdure themselves. Thus, you could grow them all at the beginning of the day (prepared) or you could grow them on the fly (spontaneous) but at the cost of actions in combat. I have added verbiage to the initial ability that I hope makes that clear?

2:
You get an Adaptation here, which is nice. I'll go over the good/bad picks later.
You also get Mystic Stride, which is very nice in verdure vs. verdure combat, but slightly redundant otherwise. Also, the text says 4th level but the table says 2nd.

Mystic stride does a couple things. It allows the Verdure to be unhindered within their own Entangle effects a level prior to their allies being able to do so. It also acts as Woodland Stride with the added bonus that it still works if the area is magically manipulated. If no manipulation, it still helps with mundane difficult terrain.

3:
First damage upgrade, important to keep up with martials. You also get Bear Fruit, which by default is sort of a very limited ability? It's a good level for the damage upgrade, which is sorely needed, but Bear Fruit is incredibly weak- to add insult to injury, it's only once per day, and you get it infrequently. Adaptations help it, but it's very weak without adaptations in a way which other abilities aren't.

Two ideas to assist Bear Fruit:
1. Add charisma mod in uses per day
2. Give a free Bear Fruit Adaptation with it when the ability is gained.

4:
Trackless step- nice fluff ability.
Verdant stride: It's a neat ability, if somewhat weak-ish? Mobility is nice, but it's less of a focus for this class. Nice to have, but not critical.
Buuut, more adaptations!

There is an ability at level 15:
Verdant Construct (Sp): You may create bridges, ramps, ladders and other such means of conveyance. You may create a bridge of plants between any two points whose distance does not exceed your movement. Creatures may move at their normal movement rate across such creations. You may dismiss these creations as a free action.

What if that was given at level 4 and the last stride at level 15 instead?

5:
More damage, and more plants, and Plant Bond- this is a good level, more than previous ones.
Aura of Dominion is decent-ish. Punishing people for moving too much is a neat flip side from Entangle.
Plant Companions are very nice. Somewhat fragile at this level, though? Also, Entangle focused people basically can't take it unless they're very sure about the campaign, since Dominion is the one which guarantees plant life for Entangle to work.

Plant Companion is 1 level behind Ranger (gained 1 level later). Should it be level-3 to be in line with Ranger?

How about expending 2 uses of Entangle if no plant life is around? If you take dominion later, it is solved. If you take the Fertile Entangle adaptation, it is solved. If it doesn't come up that often, you live with paying double for those times that it does. Does that sound okay?

Notes so far: The class is extremely combat-focused so far. There are two noncombat abilities (other than the mobility ones), Spell Blossom and Bear Fruit, and one of them is basically cantrips, and the other is very weak at this point. Outside combat, they don't have much to do.

I had an idea for 2 non-combat abilities earlier today...

Plant Empathy: You may use your Handle Animal Skill on plants creatures with an intelligence of 1 or 2.

Green Thumb: You gain a +2 Insight bonus on any skill check that involves plants (+2 to Climb if using plants to do so, +2 Knowledge (nature) if the question is plant based, etc.).
Note: I had originally intended this as a possible class feature for the Greenguard. Perhaps they could both have it. Perhaps the could both have both of these abilities?

I'd like to see Verdant Stride slightly tweaked to give a slightly more team-oriented ability set- perhaps Canyon Stride lets them generate some form of ramps, or Vertical Stride lets them cover a wall with plant life to let other people climb it too? Arboreal Stride could be adjusted to be a somewhat later level ability which gives some kind of virtual fly speed (self only) at some later level by having nearby plants lift up the player and carry them around. "Move normally through them" isn't very explicit, and sounds like Woodland Stride.

Bear Fruit is really, really disappointing without adaptation investment- it does practically nothing useful. I'd like to see it give some minor special benefit- maybe a +2 bonus to Fortitude saves for an hour, for example, which would make it a minor defensive buff. (Also, an apple a day keeps the doctor away.)

See Remarks for these abilities above and let me know if you think that solves them. The +2 Fort bonus is somewhat intriguing. Do you think that could be in addition to the normal Goodberry effect without being too much?

6:
Adaptations are nice. This is the first opportunity to get one for your Plant Bond, but it's in an uncomfortable position, because this is also the first opportunity to get one for Spell Blossom, which you just got.
Imp. Spell Blossom: This is in a slightly strange position because it turns out to not be spellcasting equivalent. Instead, you need to "prepare spells" a minute before combat by creating the blossoms with one ability, then use them with a separate standard action. It's not spontaneous casting like it looks. That, or the mechanics of Spell Blossom need to be reworked.

I think having to choose which ability to select an adaptation for is okay.
See earlier comments / changes to Spell Blossom. Do you think that solves this issue?

7:
This ability is also in an odd position, because it basically looks like Spell Blossom. Also, it is a tremendously useful lockdown spell. References Friendly Entangle, which doesn't exist. Damage up again is nice.

Removed reference to Friendly Entangle. Since that ability was rolled into the base Entangle ability, I have added it to the base Vine Field ability as well.

8:
Woodland Sight is nice, especially with some Entangle powers, but limited otherwise. Verdant Stride: See level 4. Adaptation is the standout at this level, really.

See previous comment regarding Verdant Stride and swapping Verdant Construct

9:
Speak With Plants: Oh ho ho. This is the most general-utility option I've seen so far, really... which is a little sad, actually.
Damage up is nice.

See previous comments on new utility ability ideas and addition of verdant construct at lower level. Do you think those toegether give enough out of combat oomph?

10:
Fast Plant is nice for Plant users, less so for others, but it's needed because you now have your fifth plant. Adaptation is the best thing Entanglers are getting at this point, although the degree to which you can stack on Entangle adaptations keeps it going pretty well.

Notes so far:
Noncombat options are looking a little better now- not a lot, though. It's unclear to what extent Aura of Dominion extends above the ground- it looks like it could be either way, really. Entangle needs plant-generation outside of Aura of Dominion. Spell Blossom mechanics need to be explained- are they still the same as the basic spell blossom? The way it works is confusing, and is subpar compared to normal SLAs. Intentional?

Added a qualifier that improved/greater spell blossoms work the same way the original ability's blossoms do.

Added a line to aura of dominion regarding the plantlife being generated

[aimlessPolymath]

I return! Not quoting replies because laziness.
Spell Blossom: Ah! The plants last indefinitely until you pick them as a swift action. That's good, then.

Bear Fruit's problems are attached to two things. The first is the limited uses/day. The second is that they are attached to a pretty awful spell, which can only heal any given person for 8 hp per day. Adding the +2 Fort bonus would make them a little relevant at higher levels.

Noncombat abilities: I like the first one a bunch (Wild Empathy on plants?), the second one less well- static skill bonuses don't help a lot unless the plant is any better at

I would move Plant Companion/Dominion down a level, in-line with Ranger. This also gives it get Adaptations a little earlier.

On double-use of Entangle: That sounds good!

Verdant Construct is good, really nice but not super overpowered (maybe add a way to destroy the ramps). It doesn't need to go to 4, but making the mobility upgrades available to others who might make better use of it is the big thing (Vertical Stride letting you grow ivy handholds on a wall I am suddenly very attached to). Could definitely see it in Verdant Stride.

On Speak With Plants: It would be acceptable, if you added something more before 9th level- say, the Plant Empathy thingy. The lack of versatility at low levels lends a lot to the mood of the class. Also consider Wood Shape as a SLA.

Trying not to get caught up in replies because I'm still going through the class and have other things to do (including .

Level 11:

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Commune with Nature: Love the divination.

Level 12:

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Adaptation: Goood.
Imp. Woodland Sight: This is a nice upgrade. Very nice, actually- it's basically x-ray vision through plants.
Verdant Stride: I actually don't like this a ton at this point. It's not a huge upgrade, and I kinda think that only getting 2/3 would let verdures be a little more distinct. Not hugely attached to that opinion, though.

L13:

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Animate Plants: Nice power. I do note that there are a number of Cha/day abilities, which might blend together a little bit- suggest combining their uses/day in some way. What happens if you use this on your created plants?

14:

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G. Spell Blossom: Again, a huge fan of having the spells written out like this. There's more utility in this list, including but not limited to scrying, true seeing, summoning, and control.
Adaptation at this level is another nice help to recently learned spells

15:

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Verdant Construct: See my thoughts on Verdant Stride. It's not really appropriate for this level, in my mind. Tree Stride, maybe?

16:

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G. Woodland Sight: I like it. Ultra X-ray vision!
Adaptation is still good, given how many options there are.

17:

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G. Vine Field- It's nice. Need to remove Friendly Entangle again.

18:

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Wood golems are very nice to control the field while you set up you combos. That said, you get a lot of them. Suggest a static number- 3 or 4?.

19:

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Freedom of movement fits sort of well into the class- feels a lot like woodland stride, but not quite? Could use a line of fluff to help it fit into the class better.

20

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The final adaptation, and a very good one.

Notes: Level 15 feels insufficient for the level at which you get it. I suggest constant Liveoak instead of making it a G, Spell Blossom, setting up the mood for level 18 + keeping it from being a "free" spell pick + being much more level-appropriate.
Several abilities are Cha uses/day- I suggest combining them in some way to avoid tracking issues.

It will take me even longer to get through adaptations, I'm afraid- there's another class that I'd like to review (Crimson Heir), and midterms are starting up.

[Kaskus]

Good luck on your exams! Now - UPDATES:

Changed BAB to 1/2 progression

Added Plant Empathy at level 1

Moved Plant Bond to level 4

Moved 1st Verdant Stride to level 5

Changed wording on Arboreal Stride

Added "teamwork" mechanics to Canyon Stride and Vertical Stride. I think these make Verdant Construct obsolete. I liked your idea of repalcing that with Tree Stride.

Verdant Construct replaced with Tree Stride

Wood Shape added at third level - same level as Bear Fruit so that should hel the level overall.

Added +2 Fort save to base Bear Fruit

Added maximum of 4 golems to Verdant Entourage (Just enough to carry me around in a litter).

I am considering your idea to combine the charisma per day abilities. Maybe a "Verdure's Grace" pool? What do you think of the name?

[aimlessPolymath]

Responses delayed pending review.

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Plant:
Forms! Grouping them together.
Spitter: One of few anti-air options. Poor range, sadly, but this option can essentially eliminate most placement decisions. Very useful!
Burster: It's a decent AoE and debuff, but somewhat lacking for a specialist due to lack of synergy with other Plant options, low&nonscaling damage. It could be somewhat better in a nonfocused build due to spreading a debuff.
Legion: Big Stompy! Deals lots of damage to groups, less to individuals. Unsure how the process for forgoing summoning works- do you spend successive actions boosting it (mirroring the normal Plant structure), growing it by a size each time, or spend one action, get full size? I advise the former. Possible wording:
"Overgrowth form: A plant with this form is capable of supporting further plants. Whenever you would create a plant, if this one is within range, you may instead enhance it, making it grow bigger and bigger. This increases the number of plants this plant counts as by 1, which provides benefits depending on how many plants it counts as:
{table goes here}
Web Spinner: Again, somewhat better in a nonfocused build. Somewhat redundant with the presence of the Entangle class feature.
Carnivorous: Grapple is super good! Very potent ability, especially since you don't need to maintain the grapple. Not sure if it's too good, since you can summon plants right next to key opponents like spellcasters.
Swallower: Swallow whole is even better!

Fungal Plants: It's a nice power, which synergizes with exactly one adaptation, unfortunately.
Large: Useful in combination with Combat Reflexes or as a blocker. How does it work with Legion?
Mystic Attack: A near-adaptation tax for specialists due to how important it is.
Bleed: It's... decent at low levels, bad at high levels. A little scaling would help (of the Heal DC if nothing else)
Combat Reflexes: Holy moly this + Large or Legion is amazing.

Energy Attack: A neat defence- somewhat specialized benefit.

Entangling Plants: People already want to stay away from your plants. Could have niche use to defend Spitters, but the spread is probably too small.

Pinnacle: No problems here.

General notes: Anti-air abilities are OK, which is something this class needs. Primary battlefield control usage is by combining Combat Reflexes + Large + Mystic Attack + a form- that's close to the only thing the build does, though. I'd like to see the following:
-Web and Burster brought up in power a bit to emphasize the "option-ness" of forms- Burster needs damage, Web needs a little something of its own.
-Put together an alternative or two for the grappler one- I suggest trip or drag as combat maneuvers.

Entangle:

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Tenatious Entangle: need need need. Ability tax for this build, much like Mystic strike.
Wall of Thorns: It's... nice? It only partly fits, honestly. Overshadowed by the relevant Spell Blossom.
Extra Entangle: Irrelevant in most scenarios, but it needs to be there.
Enlarge Entanglement: Cover an entire freaking battlefield in one move. Makes placing irrelevant- nice but not necessary option.
Entangling Stride: Sure? Not relevant in many cases other than with some forms of investment.
Aura of Entanglement: A bad pick due to limited radius.
Fertile Entanglement: An ability tax, but not in the good way- it's campaign dependent, and it alternates between absolutely needed and ignorable, which is not a good place to be when people are looking at their next level up.
Thorny Entangle: What? I... what? Entangle is now a Plant? What? Nix the throwing thorns, change the damage trigger to "when a creature moves through the area for the first time each turn" to let people stand still to avoid the damage.
Drag Down: Still incredibly brutal. Too brutal. It's an incredibly good multi-grapple which doesn't take your actions, automatically pins if possible, and can be optimized with CMB enhancers.
Propelling Entanglement: Looks good.
Spell Garden: Entangle, but it deals a spell effect instead, and you can do a whole lot of nasty effects with it. I'd switch around the order of expending the use and failing the save, so it doesn't let the Verdure stall forever, waiting for a failed save.
G. spell garden: Looks good.
Entangled Canopy: Looks good. Anti-flier tech, which this build is sorely lacking.
Overgrowth: Useful to catch people who thought they were safe. Other than that, only moderately useful.
Entangling Plants: See above.
Entangled Dominion: Effects of which aura?
Controlled Entangle: Powerful combination to rapidly spread Aura.
Pinnacle: gotta go fast

Results: There's a powerful core of options, and a number of more general supporting abilities. It's somewhat lacking in anti-flying options, and has perhaps too many ability taxes- I suggest adding the 2x expenditure thing to the base ability and taking out Fertile Entangle, at minimum.

[Kaskus]

I only have time tonight to respond regarding the Plant Adaptations

Spitter: Do you think the range is too low? Note that ranged attacks can go up to 5 range increments meaning this can shoot at someething 100 ft away but with big penalties for doing so.

Burster: Should the burster do its Plant damage instead of a static 2d6? Or instead, should the gas effect persist for Plant damage rounds? Perhaps scale the Save DC based on plant damage as well?

Legion: Modified wording on Legion to be clearer (hopefully?) & incorporated your idea of building them up.

Large: Made into a Plant Form. This prevents it from interacting with Legion.

Web Spinner: Web spinner is another anti-air option. Standard entangle doesn't affect fliers. Would scaling its range be helpful? What about an ability that lets 2 of these within a certain range of each other create a web wall between them?! I just thought of that as I went in to add (bold) to these. I really like the idea, what do you think?

Carnivorous: Would gating it by requiring the Large Plant Form Adaptation (Or any plant adaptation, or a level req.) balance it enough or does the form itself need to be toned down some?

Swallower: I'm a fan of this and its a staple of carnivorous plants in fantasy media. If an adaptation req. was added to Carnivorous, that would make Swallower the third part of a chain. What do you think of its balance given that?

Fungal Plants: This affects the Burster (+2 to the Fort Save DC), the Web Spinner (+2 to the escape artist DC) as well as any plant with the Bleed adaptation (+2 to heal DC). Do we need more plants that initiate saves/skill checks?

Bleed: What about 1/2 Plant Damage (minimum 1d6) instead of the static 1d6? I had also considered a poisonous plant that dealt ongoing poison damage instead of bleed damage. What do you think of that? Separate Adaptation? Auto-poison if modified by fungal adaptation?

Entangling Plants: Do you think this is a "never pick?" Do you have any suggestions?
- what about replacing with a new plant form that creates an area of entanglement that grows in radius each round? 5 ft when created and then another 5 ft each round to a maximum of 10 ft / Plant Damage die? if the plant at the center is killed, the entangled dies.

[aimlessPolymath]

Alright, quick responses:
Spitter: Change wording from "range" to "range increment", then.
Burster: I'd go for Plant damage in damage, make the save DC as per other abilities.
Legion: I know what you mean from the wording, I think- to make a 4-stack with Fast Plant active takes four consecutive move actions, and you don't get anything until all of them are made?
Large: OK
Web Spinner: Point, I hadn't considered that. Add a note on it keeping targets with wings from using them, buff the range a bit maybe, and I think it's fine. Web walls could be useful, but possibly too much for a single adaptation.
Carnivorous: The basic problem is that a successful grapple takes people out of the fight, making this "make a grapple attempt. You don't need to maintain the grapple, and even if they escape, there's a good chance that it will grab someone else for you". Thought: Perhaps move the grapple into Swallower, so that by default, it's just a bite attack. Bite attacks deal all three kinds of damage, so it's just a somewhat below-average adaptation which gates a much better one.
Swallower: I know what you mean, yeah. If you move the grapple attack from Carnivorous into this, I think it would be OK- swallow whole isn't actually that much of an upgrade from straight grappling other than thematics, and my big problem with the chain is with the EZ-grapple. Forcing investment for that power helps a lot.
Fungal: Reserving judgement. I think we do, honestly. Burster save DC is against a relatively minor effect, and the Heal/Escape Artist DCs are too low to matter against people with any investment anyway. Poison option might help.
Bleed: A damage upgrade might help- I'd set it at around 1/4 plant damage. I absolutely think that a poison option should be added- it would help out Fungal a ton.
Entangling Plants: I'd up the radius to 10 ft, giving the plants a bit of battlefield presence. 5 ft is too low because people naturally avoid that range anyway- AoOs, the chance of getting attacked, etc. 10 ft expands that "no-fly" zone by just enough, in my opinion. It doesn't need to grow- that might be a bit too much to track round-by-round for up to five plants on top of a possible Aura of Dominion.

[Kaskus]

Plants - reponses to responses...

Spitter: added "increment" and note about max range.

Burster: Changed damage to plant damage and removed the DC for the save (blanket DC calculation mechanic added at top of plant adaptations section.)

Legion: I was actually thinking you could buff existing plants with this. A base plant would have its regular statistics, then could be upgraded to a Legion 2 plant and get those benefits. This would also allow you to dismiss a plant in order to reassign its power to another plant instead. So, if you have all 5 plants summoned for instance. You could dismiss 2 of them and turn one of the 3 remaining plants into a Legion 3 plant (free action to dismiss + 2 move actions to use Legion twice). Then, if that wasnt cutting it, you could, dismiss 2 more to go full Legion 5. This might be done in a big bad + mooks scenario. start with a lot of small plants to deal with mooks and then roll into 1 Legion to face big bad as the mooks go away.

Web Spinner: Buffed the range and took out the specific DC (so it scales by the rule). Also added a note about creatures that need wings to fly.

Carnivorous: Downgraded to just a biter. Grapple moved to swallower...

Swallower: See above

Fungal: Added the ability to convert some damage into poison.

Bleed: Changed damage to 1/4 Plant Damage and added special note for combination with fungal adaptation.

Entangling Plants: Increased radius to 10 ft.

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Entangle Adaptation Responses...

Tenacious Entangle: I think I'm okay with the ability tax status of this. Do you disagree?

Wall of Thorns: I actually thought of not allowing Wall of Thorns with Spell Blossom. Do you think the blossom option makes this a "never pick?" What do you think of leaving this and taking wall of thorns out of blossom? Leaving in blossom and getting rid of this adaptation? Do you think its a "never pick" adaptation?

Entangling Stride / Aura of Entanglement: I'm thinking ditch stride and bump radius to 20ft?

Fertile Entanglement: Added the double use to the base entangle ability. I think that leaves this is an okay place. No longer ever a must but can be selected if it comes up often enough.

Thorny Entangle: Perhaps it will make more sense if you look at THIS?

Drag Down: What if you have to use a move action to direct the plants to attempt a pin? So fail 1 save, become entangled. Fail second save, become grappled. If still grappled on Verdure's turn, they may spend a move action to attempt the pin. Does that alleviate the brutality enough?

Spell Garden: Am I understanding you on this properly... Any creature that moves through the spell garden may be targeted by the Verdure's Spell Blossom ability as a free action?

Entangled Dominion: This is meant to increase the DC of the entanglement effect as well as any other effects added by entangle adaptations if any (I believe as written, it would increase the save DCs for an effect of a blossom via spell garden as well).

[Kaskus]

I got rid of Entangling Stride

Bumped up the radius on Aura of entanglement to 20 ft.

Edited Drag Down to require a move action on the Verdure's part to initiate a pin.

Added some verbiage to Entangled Dominion

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Would love to hear your thoughts on these changes and my proposals/questions on the others.

Also, some good news. I am prepping a new campaign with my siblings and one of my sisters will be playing a Verdure!