[Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Combat Kickstarter!

[Mehangel]

This already exists in Pathfinder, Ray Shield blocks rays and tower shields can grant total cover from a breath weapon (though it's kind of awkward to use).

Yes, but at the cost of four feats and being a level 10 fighter. But as a basic talent, it should be available at 1st level, assuming that Spheres of Might function in the same manner as Spheres of Power.

[Milo v3]

Yes, but at the cost of four feats and being a level 10 fighter. But as a basic talent, it should be available at 1st level, assuming that Spheres of Might function in the same manner as Spheres of Power.

It's worrying when using shields to block rays requires a higher level than cutting mind-affecting spells by punching them....

[digiman619]

First preview is up. Just started looking at it; more details when I've finished.

Looks good so far. Armiger was perhaps not the best choice as a preview class, as grasping the new concepts can be difficult enough, but I muddled through. The fact that the Might-y have a "martial focus" (Basically choosing one sphere effect to get a passive from at a time) makes me want the whoel thing now so I can make a Psychic Warrior archetype that had both kinds of focus. The best analogy for the Athletics sphere is that it's like the Nature sphere: lots of options based around one type of athletics. Sniping was smaller, but I already am planning on how to make an elementalist with this sphere.

So far, so awesome. 'Nuff said.

[LordOfCain]

first preview is up. Just started looking at it; more details when I've finished.

Oh joy, oh joy!

[Milo v3]

Wall Leaper doesn't do anything aside from create an air-breathing mermaid problem. Jumping doesn't take a move-action, it's part of your move action. You can already jump whenever you want in Core PF and nothing in the rules prevents characters from jumping multiple times in a round already.

Aside from that it looks good, and I look forward to actually being able to play a character who uses multiple types of weapons. Though I'm surprised it doesn't get any bonus feats to deal with how many feats some weapon types require.

Edit: Are Dedicate and Deadly Shot packages or do you get both when you take the Sniping sphere?

[stack]

Wall Leaper doesn't do anything aside from create an air-breathing mermaid problem. Jumping doesn't take a move-action, it's part of your move action. You can already jump whenever you want in Core PF.

Aside from that it looks good, and I look forward to actually being able to play a character who uses multiple types of weapons. Though I'm surprised it doesn't get any bonus feats to deal with how many feats some weapon types require.

We will get the jump issue sorted.

The armiger can have different spheres and talents on each bonded weapon and various spheres (not shown yet, obviously) ameliorate the need for the various weapon style enabling feats, so unless you really want weapon focus a bunch of times it shouldn't be an issue in the full product.

[Milo v3]

The armiger can have different spheres and talents on each bonded weapon and various spheres (not shown yet, obviously) ameliorate the need for the various weapon style enabling feats, so unless you really want weapon focus a bunch of times it shouldn't be an issue in the full product.

I was more referring to things like how many feats archery needs than weapon focus.
Though the class does definitely provide incentive for taking feats like vital strike which can apply to any weapon.

[Ssalarn]

I was more referring to things like how many feats archery needs than weapon focus.
Though the class does definitely provide incentive for taking feats like vital strike which can apply to any weapon.

The need for a lot of those feats is greatly ameliorated by associated spheres. The various ranged archery styles and Two-Weapon Fighting, in particular, have a lot more tricks and access points through spheres and so generally you won't feel as much pressure to have to acquire 6 or 7 feats to make that combat style functional and effective.

[stack]

I was more referring to things like how many feats archery needs than weapon focus.
Though the class does definitely provide incentive for taking feats like vital strike which can apply to any weapon.

The ranged combat feat tax is intended to be less of an issue in the complete product.

[Ssalarn]

Wall Leaper doesn't do anything aside from create an air-breathing mermaid problem. Jumping doesn't take a move-action, it's part of your move action. You can already jump whenever you want in Core PF and nothing in the rules prevents characters from jumping multiple times in a round already.

Aside from that it looks good, and I look forward to actually being able to play a character who uses multiple types of weapons. Though I'm surprised it doesn't get any bonus feats to deal with how many feats some weapon types require.

Edit: Are Dedicate and Deadly Shot packages or do you get both when you take the Sniping sphere?

Deadly Shot is a base ability, the Dedicate effect is a bonus you get when you dedicate your martial focus to that sphere.

[Lirya]

It should probably be mentioned under the definition of Martial Focus if you can keep it up out of combat or not. I would tend to assume that you can do this as it helps the skill bonuses, and the mention that it persists until you expend it. Still I have seen massive discussions on the paizo rule-forum about matters that should have been even more clear.

Overall, it looks promising and I look forward to studying it more closely in days to come.

[Ssalarn]

It should probably be mentioned under the definition of Martial Focus if you can keep it up out of combat or not. I would tend to assume that you can do this as it helps the skill bonuses, and the mention that it persists until you expend it. Still I have seen massive discussions on the paizo rule-forum about matters that should have been even more clear.

Overall, it looks promising and I look forward to studying it more closely in days to come.

It is definitely intended to be something you can maintain out of combat; I'll see if we can't do something to make that even more clear.

[jamieth]

A couple questions based on what's currently revealed:

Armiger + Covering Fire talent: if an armiger declares a zone of covering fire, does it lock him into doing AoOs into that zone with a ranged weapon Covering Fire is invested into? Is the ability to make those ranged AoOs retained if the Armiger switches to a different weapon in the course of the turn, then back to the weapon Covering Fire was declared with?

"The armiger may not use talents invested in a bonded weapon to qualify for feats or to meet other prerequisites unless otherwise noted." Does it mean Armiger flat out can't qualify for feats requiring specific talents unless he gets the talents from sources outside Armiger's talent progression?

Also outside the off-class talent sources, am I reading it right that Armiger essentially can't select non-base-sphere talents until level 4 at the earliest - or, rather, he can select, but not benefit from them?

[khadgar567]

small question can armiger and armorist work together

[stack]

A couple questions based on what's currently revealed:

Armiger + Covering Fire talent: if an armiger declares a zone of covering fire, does it lock him into doing AoOs into that zone with a ranged weapon Covering Fire is invested into? Is the ability to make those ranged AoOs retained if the Armiger switches to a different weapon in the course of the turn, then back to the weapon Covering Fire was declared with?

"The armiger may not use talents invested in a bonded weapon to qualify for feats or to meet other prerequisites unless otherwise noted." Does it mean Armiger flat out can't qualify for feats requiring specific talents unless he gets the talents from sources outside Armiger's talent progression?

Also outside the off-class talent sources, am I reading it right that Armiger essentially can't select non-base-sphere talents until level 4 at the earliest - or, rather, he can select, but not benefit from them?

Covering fire is an attack action, so unless you have a way to attack with you move it swift you probably won't benefit from changing away from the weapon you are getting covering fire from. Can you still benefit from a talent that you used to grant an ability with a duration but don't currently possess? Good question. A spell's duration doesn't end if you lose the knowledge of the spell, so in the current wording I would say the armiger could change to a different range weapon and make the covering fire attacks.

The armiger can qualify for feats using his normal talents progression (1 per even level). You can't use the talents you are gaining from your weapons, purely to avoid the issue of having a feat you qualified for using a talent you no longer possess.

Many armigers will want to select base spheres with their normal progression and bonus talents at low levels then expand those spheres using their weapons. There is a technique to increase the talents granted by a bonded weapon, helping you to add options earlier. Another way to build, once the full set of spheres is available, will be to have talents enabling a specific weapon in that weapon (giving you the equivalent of precise shot on a bow for example) and more general talents for movement or that work with a variety of spheres on your base progression.

Khadgar - summon weapon wouldn't be good for an armiger, and bound weapon suffers if you multiclass, though there is no reason a bound weapon could t also be a bonded weapon. Probably not a lot of synergy here though, despite similarities in name and theme.

[jamieth]

The armiger can qualify for feats using his normal talents progression (1 per even level). You can't use the talents you are gaining from your weapons, purely to avoid the issue of having a feat you qualified for using a talent you no longer possess.

That implies I was reading the very core of Armiger wrongly, then :-) I assumed it was "1 maneuver per 2 levels (plus 2 at 1st), and assign maneuver to your weapons from among those you learned. So, Armiger can assign any talents he qualifies for to the bonded weapons, essentially changing majority of his talents every day if desired?~

[NomGarret]

That implies I was reading the very core of Armiger wrongly, then :-) I assumed it was "1 maneuver per 2 levels (plus 2 at 1st), and assign maneuver to your weapons from among those you learned. So, Armiger can assign any talents he qualifies for to the bonded weapons, essentially changing majority of his talents every day if desired?~

Yeah, it took me a couple read-throughs to figure that out as well. I think a line or two of clarifying text is in order. As to the bonded weapons, I don't think they can be swapped out daily, as it's an 8 hour bonding process per weapon. So, you can bond with a new weapon set or two on a day off, or "rebond" on a day off, I suppose.

Does the following example make sense? Am I reading it right?

Sitcon the 1st level Armiger has the following talents, not opting to gain extra through feats, traditions, etc: Sniping and Athletics (Run). He has also bound a bow, a sword, and a trident. The bow has the Covering Fire talent. The sword has the Swift Movement talent. The trident has the Athletics (Swim) package.

[stack]

Yeah, it took me a couple read-throughs to figure that out as well. I think a line or two of clarifying text is in order. As to the bonded weapons, I don't think they can be swapped out daily, as it's an 8 hour bonding process per weapon. So, you can bond with a new weapon set or two on a day off, or "rebond" on a day off, I suppose.

Does the following example make sense? Am I reading it right?

Sitcon the 1st level Armiger has the following talents, not opting to gain extra through feats, traditions, etc: Sniping and Athletics (Run). He has also bound a bow, a sword, and a trident. The bow has the Covering Fire talent. The sword has the Swift Movement talent. The trident has the Athletics (Swim) package.

You have it. I was concerned that the wording wasn't clear and that concern has proven valid. We'll work on making the intent more obvious.

[legomaster00156]

I hope this book includes ways to play the "blind master" archetype effectively. Blind-Fight only goes so far.

[jamieth]

You have it. I was concerned that the wording wasn't clear and that concern has proven valid. We'll work on making the intent more obvious.

Ah, ok, thanks for clarification

[Mehangel]

summon weapon wouldn't be good for an armiger, and bound weapon suffers if you multiclass, though there is no reason a bound weapon could t also be a bonded weapon. Probably not a lot of synergy here though, despite similarities in name and theme.

Any chance of adding a feat that either:

Allows an armiger to devote one slot of "bonded weapon" to the armorist's "summoned weapons", counting any weapon summoned via the armorist's ability to be counted as being bonded.

or

Allows an armorist to count armiger levels to determine the enhancement bonuses of either his bound equipment or summoned equipment (but not for determining any other class features)?

or

Allows an armiger's bonded bonuses to stack with the enhancement bonus of any armorist bound equipment they have bonded with.

[stack]

Interesting ideas for cross- over material. We will see how much SoP support we end up having in the base book verses a release dedicated to blending the systems. Part of the answer will depend on stretch goals I believe. We are excited about the possibilities of blending the two.

[Mehangel]

Interesting ideas for cross- over material. We will see how much SoP support we end up having in the base book verses a release dedicated to blending the systems. Part of the answer will depend on stretch goals I believe. We are excited about the possibilities of blending the two.

On the topic of cross-over material, I would also like to see feats that offer Stamina system support. For example a feat that allows you to regain or switch Martial Focus as a Move action by spending X stamina points, as a Swift action by spending 2X stamina points, or as an immediate action by spending 3X stamina points.

I would prefer that such Stamina integration is done via feats, so that people using Spheres of Might dont need another book (Pathfinder Unchained) to use basic talents; but are still available to those that do use the Stamina system.

[khadgar567]

well its hit the final stretch goal today looks like this book needs major stretch goals like 20k or more. looks like eventual spheres of power patch is lot closer then we think

[LordOfCain]

well its hit the final stretch goal today looks like this book needs major stretch goals like 20k or more. looks like eventual spheres of power patch is lot closer then we think

It already has those:

Spoiler: Image

Show

They just weren't in the update.

[digiman619]

well its hit the final stretch goal today looks like this book needs major stretch goals like 20k or more. looks like eventual spheres of power patch is lot closer then we think

Umm... I think you might not have read the stretch goals right. Now it's a 12K, we're getting ways for monsters to use SoM, but we still have two more stretch goals: at 15K, we get "even more archetypes", implied to also include archetypes for Paizo martials and (maybe) some SoP classes, and at 20K it's "expanded GM support" by including a mini bestiary of martial monsters of all CRs. If and when we top 20K, then we'll worry about more stretch goals.

[khadgar567]

sorry guys

[AlienFromBeyond]

Khadgar - summon weapon wouldn't be good for an armiger, and bound weapon suffers if you multiclass, though there is no reason a bound weapon could t also be a bonded weapon. Probably not a lot of synergy here though, despite similarities in name and theme.

Could be good for a feat or prestige class though, like DSP did with Soulknife + Psychic Warrior. Given the money raised thus far, a stretch goal for SoM + SoP crossover material would probably be reached, it would be quite popular I think.

[Ssalarn]

Could be good for a feat or prestige class though, like DSP did with Soulknife + Psychic Warrior. Given the money raised thus far, a stretch goal for SoM + SoP crossover material would probably be reached, it would be quite popular I think.

SoP/SoM crossover materials are definitely something that's going to happen, it's just a matter of when and where, and whether it will be part of SoM, a separate add-on type book, or something produced after the fact. We're definitely aware of the demand though, and the design team spent a good chunk of time the other night discussing the many possibilities (like how a Warp armiger is pretty much a must).

[digiman619]

SoP/SoM crossover materials are definitely something that's going to happen, it's just a matter of when and where, and whether it will be part of SoM, a separate add-on type book, or something produced after the fact. We're definitely aware of the demand though, and the design team spent a good chunk of time the other night discussing the many possibilities (like how a Warp armiger is pretty much a must).

I remember seeing Noctis from FFXV and thinking "Well, he's clearly an Armorist with the Warp sphere" until the Armiger showed up.