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2017-03-27, 01:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2016
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Minionmancy of the highest caliber.
Ok so if I'm reading rules right.
Oathbreaker 5/Necromancer 15
Can use channel divinity to control CR 4 and below undead. (thinking another wight or a ghost or ghast)
Can use 8th level slot (and an army's graveyard) to create 12 Skeletons.
Can use 9th level slot to create 3 wights, each of which can control up to 12 zombies.
Can use Command Undead on potentially a Mummy Lord, for permanent control.
What else can this do? Within a 24 hour period.
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2017-03-27, 01:58 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
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2017-03-27, 08:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
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- Dominican Republic
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Re: Minionmancy of the highest caliber.
Last edited by Maxilian; 2017-03-27 at 09:00 AM.
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2017-03-27, 09:01 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
Re: Minionmancy of the highest caliber.
It's also useful to make your DM create encounters which will TPK the party when the first thing goes wrong, or make encounters entirely inconsequential to the point where you should ask yourself why you're even playing.
Minionmancers ruin the game being played at the table.If you quote me and ask me questions,
and I continue to not respond,
it's probably because I have
you on my Ignore list.
Congratulations.
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2017-03-27, 09:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
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- Dominican Republic
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Re: Minionmancy of the highest caliber.
Why? why would the minions make the encounter harder? and why Zombies / Skeletons? (I may understand a little bit with a Druid minionmancer -Pixies can do way more than a Zombie or Skeleton- )
Note: Also pretty sure that in most cases, having a huge army of skeletons or/and zombies are not things you can easily walk around with (and if you do, you are going to pick people interest -And having in mind how Necromancy is mostly seen, i don't think it would be a good kind of interest)Last edited by Maxilian; 2017-03-27 at 09:12 AM.
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2017-03-27, 09:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Texas
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2017-03-27, 09:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2016
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- Missouri
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Re: Minionmancy of the highest caliber.
Extended Signature
Co-Creator of the Fastest Character in 5e at Mach 3.175 (SR-71)!
(Maybe 6.5 (X-15), or even 12.7 (1.33 saturn V's)! It's still debatable)
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2017-03-27, 09:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
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- Dominican Republic
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2017-03-27, 09:58 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2016
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Re: Minionmancy of the highest caliber.
Multi class rules, 5 levels of paladin is 2 levels of full caster
Ideally this is the type of army you build if you need to face another army, or if your party is about to be seiged on. Normally I would have 2 skeles, and a wight all dressed up and gentle reposed. Wight would have 1 or 2 zombies as meat nuggets Before being disposed of. Zombies in my mind are too dumb to pass for living, and ghasts and ghouls are naturally repulsive. Skeles would be archers, and eight would be my best buddy. Oh and I'd have a mummy lord sitting somewhere in a cave with a clone of me. He's to be the Lt. Rags
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2017-03-27, 10:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Texas
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Re: Minionmancy of the highest caliber.
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2017-03-27, 10:14 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
Re: Minionmancy of the highest caliber.
Eh, the usual Wizard or Druid 20 can take out an entire army with Control Weather or Mirage Arcane anyway. Non-necromancer Wizards also get access to minionmancy via True Polymorph and Planar Binding (bolstered with Wish -> Hallow if necessary) shenanigans. They don't even need Planar Binding if they limit themselves to most constructs.
It's harder for Druids to get mass Minionmancy going (most with 'conventional' spells is 32 with Conjure Animals), but they do have Awaken and Animal Shapes.
The Wizard can also use True Polymorph or Shapechange (Druids can use Shapechange) to assume the form of a minionmaster monster like a Young Red Shadow Dragon.
Edit: With all that said though, Necromancer minions do have the significant advantage of remaining functional even in an AMF, unlike most TPm or summoned minions.
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2017-03-27, 10:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
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- Dominican Republic
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Re: Minionmancy of the highest caliber.
And for those that have Multiattack (at least one of those attacks is going to a zombie, that's less damage for you and your team, also you could use them to provoke OA so you won't provoke OA -only 1 reaction-)
and when the enemy have an AoE (like Dragons), work around it, just position your zombies in a better place (harder to do while playing without minis -Also easier to do with skeletons -as they have better movility so its easier to re-position
An optional rule, but I can see your point if that rule is used.Last edited by Maxilian; 2017-03-27 at 10:18 AM.
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2017-03-27, 10:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Texas
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Re: Minionmancy of the highest caliber.
It slows combat down unless everyone at the table has game system mastery.
I was in a game last year that used it: half the people were casual players, and it really slowed things down. Me, being veteran and tactically minded, it didn't bother me but I really like the KISS principle of basic 5e combat. Keeps things moving.
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2017-03-27, 10:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
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- Dominican Republic
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Re: Minionmancy of the highest caliber.
Why would it slow it, its basically a:
A) You're flanking /or being flanked
B) You're not flaking /or not being flanked
How why would it slow down the combat? (I have always use this roll, even with new players, the only detail is that they may not always take advantage of this rule -Because they are new- but not that it will slow down the combat)
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2017-03-27, 10:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2015
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2017-03-27, 10:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
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- Dominican Republic
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Re: Minionmancy of the highest caliber.
Oh, in that comment we were talking about the optional rule of flanking (not the minions per se)
But yes, it would be best to make all minions share an initiative and make all the Attack Roles at the same time (to make things faster) -If you have WAY too many, just roll just divide them by groups (you have 50 minions, in 5 groups of 10, 5 rolls).
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2017-03-27, 10:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2016
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Re: Minionmancy of the highest caliber.
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2017-03-27, 10:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
Re: Minionmancy of the highest caliber.
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2017-03-27, 10:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Texas
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Re: Minionmancy of the highest caliber.
Given that you didn't play with our group, I'll not bother answering. It did.
Look, I grew up with this game, and have been through all editions besides 4th. I've done fast combat and slow combat. I've done high simulation and low simulation. Grids and no grids. Facing and no facing. Flanking and no flanking. Limited number of monsters whose attack your shield works against based on shield size. Rounds and segments. And so on.
I like the greater amount of abstraction of 5e's KISS system, particularly in a decent sized group (5-6 players and 1 DM) and not all having system mastery.
One of the things I also like about 5e is that for any reason at all the DM can grant advantage or disadvantage based on circumstances (and you can ask if you have advantage at our table if you think a circumstance would indicate such).
I can have fun doing it other ways too, and have.Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2017-03-27 at 10:56 AM.
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2017-03-27, 10:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
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- Dominican Republic
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Re: Minionmancy of the highest caliber.
@KorvinStarmast
Sorry if my comment was seen as an attack on the way your group plays.
Just wanted to know
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2017-03-27, 11:00 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
Re: Minionmancy of the highest caliber.
If we were out right now, I'd buy you a beer.
This echoes my experiences and my viewpoint perfectly. I've been around the block a time or thirty myself, and while AD&D2e has always been my favorite edition to play, 5e is my favorite edition to conduct combat, precisely because of it's speed and relative simplicity.If you quote me and ask me questions,
and I continue to not respond,
it's probably because I have
you on my Ignore list.
Congratulations.
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2017-03-27, 11:03 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
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- Texas
- Gender
Re: Minionmancy of the highest caliber.
I apologize if my reply came across as salty.
It's not the matter of "the way our group plays" but the particular mix of what we bring to the table in the group. At a given table, your approach may work perfectly, and as I noted I've played with facing and flanking and such as far back as original D&D. For the tactically minded, it provides another decision to make to win a given fight or to cover another character's flank.
My last experience with it was with a DM who liked it and the players who were not all into that, other than two of the six. Needless to say, the NPC's and monsters run by the DM were constantly working to use flanks, as the DM was into it. That made some of the encounters a bit one sided due to the "not on the same page" and "not interested in that level of detail" by the majority of those at the table.
Again, sorry if that response came across as salty, I was trying to get across that I'm not going to theory craft when I've got experience with something, or more importantly, experience with a group of people.Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2017-03-27 at 11:04 AM.
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2017-03-27, 11:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
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- Dominican Republic
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Re: Minionmancy of the highest caliber.
Well, in my experience, not all mobs will take advantage of the flanking (most beast won't -Depends the beast of course-) and some humanoid won't either, i also try not to punish the players that much for not knowing a rule (even more one that is an optional rule that is only in the DMG)
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2017-03-27, 11:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
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- Dominican Republic
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Re: Minionmancy of the highest caliber.
Bone Nagas are casters, that is quite nice (and they also have Hold Person, and you know what that means for your army of Undeads? Crit crit crit -In general they are a nice option and they are Large, so they could, in theory, be a mount- (Bone Nagas don't have sunlight sensitivity)
Wight give you the advantage of more undeads (A humanoid slain by Life Drain its raised as an undead) -This may be a 2 edges sword, cause if you lose control of the Wight, you will have to deal with it and all the undeads it created under your service. (Wight have a great combination of resistance, so if fighting non-magical foes, the Wight becomes even better -because of its resistance to non-magical damage)
Shadows are way weaker than the both options above, but is great as a scout and as an Assasin (of a non-magic user or enchanted warrior -because of its resistance to non-magical damage)
Flameskull, a really strong caster, and funny enough, its even better against caster than anything else thanks to all its elemental resistance (Ligthing and necrotic) and inmunities (cold, fire and poison), so not leaving many options for casters. (Unsure on how the Rejuvenation ability would work with the Oathbreaker control)
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2017-03-27, 11:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
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- Dominican Republic
- Gender
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2017-03-27, 11:45 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2016
- Gender
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2017-03-27, 02:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
- Location
- Dominican Republic
- Gender
Re: Minionmancy of the highest caliber.
Use your disguise kit, get a Blacksmith to give you a hand and make the Bone Naga look like a mechanical (something created by an Artificer), and get some robes and mask to your skeletons so they could go around like your bodyguards. (In the end, a great Artificer like yourself need bodyguards!)
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2017-03-27, 05:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
Re: Minionmancy of the highest caliber.
Multiclassing is pointless here. Just create wights the normal way (as a Necromancer 15 using an 8th level spell slot) and then use normal Necromancer means to bind them long-term (Geas VIII + Mass Suggestion VIII) as soon as you've got a dozen. Wights are not immune to charm.
Expending five levels on Paladin just to pick up a short-rest control ability is pointless.
(Also, consider spell research a la Planar Binding, but for undead.)