[Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

[Ssalarn]

So, question about the addition to "Combat Training for Non-Spheres of Might Classes"
If Armorists trade out their Low-Caster spellcasting for Proficient combat training, can they still benefit from things like "Shadow Armory"? What about a Soaring Blade Armorist? Would they still gain their Telekinetic talents at full CL since they aren't a part of the casting feature?

I would like to hear that reason, assuming there was one.

That's actually a mistake we're fixing. The version of the talent to feat conversion that got published wasn't actually meant to be, so expect a different set-up when we run the update next month ahead of the print run. There's not supposed to be an Expert level trade, just the proficient and the adept, and they're supposed to be on shifted progressions from those currently presented.

Another potential issue: the Find Gap talent in the Scout sphere has a limited duration, triggered when (I assume) you first scout an enemy, which conflicts with the general scout rule stating that any talents tied to the scout ability can be used at any time in the next 24 hours.

This was something that the group decided to put on a shorter timer due to the high benefit involved. It does have a much shorter timer than most other Scout abilities, but that's intentional. It's more of a "Aha, that orc stepped on a rock and his favoring his left foot at the moment so I can use that to catch him off balance" than a "Smaug has a missing scale right over his heart" kind of thing.

[khadgar567]

Is prodigy get 20 talents on both sides( might and power) or they just have 20 talents.

[Quarian Rex]

I keep hearing mention of the Sage. Anyone have a link?

[Lord Raziere]

I keep hearing mention of the Sage. Anyone have a link?

This post:

Just wanted to pop in and note that the update should be officially and completely rolled out at this point, for anyone who hasn't seen/heard.

Links in the OP should be good, but reposting them here just in case:
Sphere 1
Sphere 2
Sphere 3
Class 1
Class 2
CotS classes
Legendary Talents
Additional Rules
Archetypes

Click on "CotS classes". the Sage and Troubadour are the two classes there, and also the two classes that aren't in the Spheres of Might book thats out right now, so probably getting their own release, but I don't know what "CotS" means....

[khadgar567]

CotS== champions of the spheres aka spheres of might and power hybrid book

[Doc_Maynot]

That's actually a mistake we're fixing. The version of the talent to feat conversion that got published wasn't actually meant to be, so expect a different set-up when we run the update next month ahead of the print run. There's not supposed to be an Expert level trade, just the proficient and the adept, and they're supposed to be on shifted progressions from those currently presented.

My question was about the spell casting trade though it is nice to hear about the feat trade mechanic.

[RedMop]

Is prodigy get 20 talents on both sides( might and power) or they just have 20 talents.

Combat and Magic Talents
A prodigy gains a combat or magic talent every time she gains a class level, according to Table: prodigy.

Text trumps table.

[khadgar567]

Text trumps table.

Then we might need fix or confirmation for this

[stack]

Prodigy get 1 talent of either type each level.

[Quarian Rex]

Click on "CotS classes". the Sage and Troubadour are the two classes there, and also the two classes that aren't in the Spheres of Might book thats out right now, so probably getting their own release, but I don't know what "CotS" means....

Much thanks. I haven't looked at Spheres of might in quite a while. I saw that it was out then came here to see if it was worth it. After looking at a couple of the classes and a couple spheres I bought the book so I could peruse in a more gentlemanly fashion. Didn't realize that anything was left out. Sage looks interesting and I'm looking forward to CoS.

[Sam C.]

That's actually a mistake we're fixing. The version of the talent to feat conversion that got published wasn't actually meant to be, so expect a different set-up when we run the update next month ahead of the print run. There's not supposed to be an Expert level trade, just the proficient and the adept, and they're supposed to be on shifted progressions from those currently presented.

Okay. Good to know.

This was something that the group decided to put on a shorter timer due to the high benefit involved. It does have a much shorter timer than most other Scout abilities, but that's intentional. It's more of a "Aha, that orc stepped on a rock and his favoring his left foot at the moment so I can use that to catch him off balance" than a "Smaug has a missing scale right over his heart" kind of thing.

In that case, might I suggest modifying it so that it can be activated once (as a swift action or as part of the action used to scout) during the 24 hour window? That would put it better in line with the scout ability, and make it so you don't effectively lose the talent if you happen to get the opportunity to scout your opponents before combat starts (such as when, well, scouting, or while waiting for negotiations to break down with the orcs guarding the bridge).

One last question. I remember seeing discussion about including a sidebar or something in SoM giving recommendations for combat feat modifications (such as giving all characters the Vital Strike feat chain for free). What happened with that?

[EldritchWeaver]

One last question. I remember seeing discussion about including a sidebar or something in SoM giving recommendations for combat feat modifications (such as giving all characters the Vital Strike feat chain for free). What happened with that?

It's not in the book. Don't know why though.

[Slavezero]

how come the conscript can't gain trap-finding? i would have thought that it's ability to pick and choose so many different powers you could grab trap-finding as well

[Mehangel]

how come the conscript can't gain trap-finding? i would have thought that it's ability to pick and choose so many different powers you could grab trap-finding as well

I am also surprised, even if Trapfinding isn't enough by itself, it could've been paired with a scaling Trap Sense. Of course if you really want Trapfinding, I am pretty sure the Scout or Trap sphere include talents for acquiring such.

[EldritchWeaver]

I am also surprised, even if Trapfinding isn't enough by itself, it could've been paired with a scaling Trap Sense. Of course if you really want Trapfinding, I am pretty sure the Scout or Trap sphere include talents for acquiring such.

Actually, I don't find any text related to "you count as rogue" in the Trap sphere, where it should belong to the base ability, since it allows you to collect other people traps.

Otherwise, I noticed that some spheres have been renamed from ending with "-ing". I fully support this move, but it doesn't go far enough. We still have Boxing, Dual Wielding, Fencing, and Wrestling. Those need to be renamed, too!

[Mehangel]

Something else I noticed is that there isn't a Berserker talent or feat which increases the temporary hit points of the Berserker sphere base ability (similar to the Guardian sphere's Greater Delayed Damage talent).

I imagine that if written as a Berserker talent it would be written as follows:

Greater Berserker
The amount of temporary hit points granted by your Berserker sphere base ability increases by +1 per point of base attack bonus you possess. You may take this talent twice; the effects stack.

I imagine that if written as a feat it would be written as follows:

Greater Berserker (Combat)
Prerequisites: Berserker sphere, BAB +5
Benefit: Increase the temporary hit points granted by the Berserker sphere base ability by your base attack bonus.
Special: You may take this feat a second time at BAB +10, a third time at BAB +15, and a fourth time at BAB +20; its effects stack.

As a sidenote: It might be useful to actually name the Berserker base sphere ability, maybe something like Frenzy, Fury, Ire, or Wrath.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Otherwise, I noticed that some spheres have been renamed from ending with "-ing". I fully support this move, but it doesn't go far enough. We still have Boxing, Dual Wielding, Fencing, and Wrestling. Those need to be renamed, too!

Boxing, Fencing, and Wrestling are all actual fighting styles with names though. What could they even call Fencing at this point since Dueling's already taken? I agree that "duel wielding" could use a more evocative name though.

[Doc_Maynot]

Dashing Dualism?

[stack]

I think upping the THP from berserker too much would strongly encourage overinvesting in a narrow aspect of a character, giving too potent a payoff while making a boring character. Especially when you can delay damage with guardian and activate the THP the next turn.

[Slavezero]

could someone explain the choke hold wrestling talent to me? i want to make sure i have this right. if i can grab them without them having held they're breath they immediately start to suffocate and need to make con checks or drop unconscious or do i have that wrong?

[Mehangel]

I think upping the THP from berserker too much would strongly encourage overinvesting in a narrow aspect of a character, giving too potent a payoff while making a boring character. Especially when you can delay damage with guardian and activate the THP the next turn.

While I agree that at low levels combining the Berserker's temp hp with the Guardian's delayed damage pool is potent, as you gain levels the temp hp is less and less relevant. For example, at level 20 you will only have 23 temporary hit points each round, while a CR 20 creature is dealing an average of 90-120 damage with their attacks. Allowing a talent that allows it to increase the temp hp bonus by it's BAB once or twice will significantly keep the ability relevant.

[Ssalarn]

I think upping the THP from berserker too much would strongly encourage overinvesting in a narrow aspect of a character, giving too potent a payoff while making a boring character. Especially when you can delay damage with guardian and activate the THP the next turn.

Agreed. Trying to amp the buffer up to over 100 temp hp would be much too powerful and ignores the underpinnings of the system, negating resource expenditure and trivializing encounters. It ignores the fact that our system also offers counters, healing, and other defensive boosts that are available at those later levels as well. Someone with a pool of 100 temp hp that they can use to cycle into a delayed damage pool every round and a counter they can use to deflect an attack has just made themselves functionally immune to several attacks a round for the cost of about 5 talents (a cost you can actually set up right out of the gate with the right class and martial tradition). It works currently because the numbers are correct. Absorbing 23 hit points a round is relevant, even at the high levels where it becomes an option. That's still around 1/3-1/4 of a big attack and essentially all of a single attack from an enemy like a doomsayer, or even a balor.

[Adam Meyers]

@Mehangel: 'average' is the optimal word there. There are martial ways around every martial tank; AC tanks can be grappled, DR tanks can be hit hard, etc. However, a tank with 100 temp hp that refreshes each round is way worse than any of those; even if he is knocked to the ground or grappled first, he can only be shut down if he's facing a massive enemy, or is surrounded by a great many foes; any BBEG who DOESN'T hit you for 100+ damage per round is effectively useless.

Considering especially how easy it is to add berserker and guardian onto any standard tank build (just 2 talents and it stacks with whatever DR barbarian/tower shield tank you were previously using), there are currently no plans to add a temp. hp-increasing talent to Berseker

[Aipaca]

Do you risk poisoning yourself when applying your Alchemy Sphere poison to a weapon? I assume so but it doesn't make it clear in the ability, a sentence clarifying would be nice where it defines how you apply the poison.

[AlienFromBeyond]

I was pretty disappointed (to say the least) to hear that the feats given up by the Coiled Blade archetype for the Fighter got reverted back to its old 1/4/8/12/16/20, rendering it once again incompatible with the fun and interesting Fighter SoP archetypes like War Hero from Battlemage's Handbook (War sphere) or the Impossible Warrior archetype from the Protection sphere handbook playtest. Par for the course I guess, most of the SoP/SoM archetypes are incompatible with each other, which takes a lot of fun out of the whole archetype system/design as a player.

[Mithril Leaf]

Hey, quick question:

Can the Mad Scientist make multiple of his wacky inventions? IE two Portal Guns at once, when he is level 3.

[exelsisxax]

Is it just me, or is dual-wielding even more lackluster than vanilla TWF? It takes a ton of investment to do as much damage as a standard 2H power attacker, doing anything cool requires hitting with main-off hand pairs, and there's barely any scaling. I don't see the point for anything other than TWF-PA with 2H weapons with legendary talents.

[NomGarret]

I'm having fun pouring over the book to find all the post-playtest changes, though if one of the devs felt like giving a brief overview, that would be ok, too. In particular, I like the changes to the Scoundrel base ability. It does a better job of letting them set up their own combos without relying on other spheres to set up battered. If they do have another party member setting it up for them, they get to save a swift action. Awesome.

Quick question re: Hurricane Strike. Does it deal bleed damage to the secondary targets? My guess is 'no', as it doesn't seem like that's part of "normal weapon damage," but I figure it's worth asking.

[Ssalarn]

I'm having fun pouring over the book to find all the post-playtest changes, though if one of the devs felt like giving a brief overview, that would be ok, too. In particular, I like the changes to the Scoundrel base ability. It does a better job of letting them set up their own combos without relying on other spheres to set up battered. If they do have another party member setting it up for them, they get to save a swift action. Awesome.

Quick question re: Hurricane Strike. Does it deal bleed damage to the secondary targets? My guess is 'no', as it doesn't seem like that's part of "normal weapon damage," but I figure it's worth asking.

Yeah, only the primary target gets bleed damage, not the secondary targets from Hurricane Strike's sweep attack.

Is it just me, or is dual-wielding even more lackluster than vanilla TWF? It takes a ton of investment to do as much damage as a standard 2H power attacker, doing anything cool requires hitting with main-off hand pairs, and there's barely any scaling. I don't see the point for anything other than TWF-PA with 2H weapons with legendary talents.

Mathematically, the increased chance to crit off of an attack action by making the second attack is fully equivalent to the damage from two-handing. Dual Wielding also doesn't require stat splitting and even offers ways to overcome the increased enhancement costs normally associated with TWF, as well as many other modifications to improve general damage and facility.

Do you risk poisoning yourself when applying your Alchemy Sphere poison to a weapon? I assume so but it doesn't make it clear in the ability, a sentence clarifying would be nice where it defines how you apply the poison.

There was a line to that effect and I'm not sure what happened to it. Working on getting it fixed.

[Adam Meyers]

@Mithral Leaf: Yeah, they can make multiples of the same mad scientist inventions, up to their maximum.