[Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

[EldritchWeaver]

If this depends on restoring focus several times per round: You can't restore focus more than once per round. Never. Explicitly ruled out.

[Mehangel]

On the subject of Champions of the Spheres, can you tell us of any changes to the Sage class? Mostly I am curious about the following:
- Has the Sage class been modified so to be given the 'Casting' class feature, so that it could
A) Gain a Casting Tradition (perhaps granting bonus ki points instead of spell points during levels where such would be gained)
B) Resolve issues with Sage characters who multiclass into other spherecasting classes.
C) Resolve issues for meeting spherecasting feat prerequisites? (including feats such as: Cantrips, Circle Casting, Contingency, Counterspell, Create Spellbook, Ritual Caster, Spellcrafting, etc)
- Any chance of the Sage also getting the Blended Training class feature (like the Prodigy)
- How many archetypes are currently being worked on for the Sage class (if any), and what do they do?

Bumping this to get an answer.

[Zsaber0]

Do the martial traditions such as Knightly Arts, or any of them really, which grants access to the Equipment Sphere as well as several Equipment Talents take into account the Free extra Equipment Talent buying into the equipment Sphere grants?

[Mehangel]

Do the martial traditions such as Knightly Arts, or any of them really, which grants access to the Equipment Sphere as well as several Equipment Talents take into account the Free extra Equipment Talent buying into the equipment Sphere grants?

As far as I can tell none of the martial traditions actually give the Equipment sphere, only talents from that sphere.

[kkplx]

If this depends on restoring focus several times per round: You can't restore focus more than once per round. Never. Explicitly ruled out.

You restore it once per round - I don't see what you're referring to.

The thing you use focus on is placing the trap as a move action.

Did you falsely read this as executing this chain more than once a round?

You gain: 4 attacks in one round, as long as your trap hits, repeatable each round.

In case that's the issue, I added the "start round" and "end round" notes in my example.

[Ssalarn]

Do the martial traditions such as Knightly Arts, or any of them really, which grants access to the Equipment Sphere as well as several Equipment Talents take into account the Free extra Equipment Talent buying into the equipment Sphere grants?

Since the Equipment sphere's base ability is "Choose an equipment talent", the martial traditions all mandate what that talent is going to be. When a martial talent says "Equipment: Armor Training, Bushido Training", this is essentially shorthand for "Equipment sphere (must take Armor Training), Bushido Training". We had that specifically spelled out at one point, but I'm assuming that it got cut because someone felt it was unnecessary? Or it disappeared during one of the many reworks the Equipment sphere underwent and just never got added back in when we went back to the Equipment sphere's base ability just being that you get any one talent from the sphere. I'll double-check with the team.

[kkplx]

Since the Equipment sphere's base ability is "Choose an equipment talent", the martial traditions all mandate what that talent is going to be. When a martial talent says "Equipment: Armor Training, Bushido Training", this is essentially shorthand for "Equipment sphere (must take Armor Training), Bushido Training". We had that specifically spelled out at one point, but I'm assuming that it got cut because someone felt it was unnecessary? Or it disappeared during one of the many reworks the Equipment sphere underwent and just never got added back in when we went back to the Equipment sphere's base ability just being that you get any one talent from the sphere. I'll double-check with the team.

I ran into the same question when going over the pdf with a friend today - you really might want to make that more explicit.

[kkplx]

A monster with human-like intelligence has BAB 16 and picks up a level in any one of the classes in spheres of might. This creature then picks up the berserker sphere and takes the bone-breaker exertion.
Does its brutal strike now apply a -1 to attack and damage rolls, or -5?

[Sam C.]

I'd like to pose a scenario that should be possible, to see if I'm getting it right:

You need, at level 1:
Barrage Sphere
Trap Sphere with 2 Drawbacks (must immediately trigger, and only use darts, to get trap wielder and opportunist) and 1 talent (Trapper's recovery)
This can be achieved with the mechanic archetype and a single talent


You gain: 4 attacks in one round, as long as your trap hits, repeatable each round.

start round
- Expend your focus to place your dart trap and trigger it immediately, as a move action
- As the opponent is hit, you take an attack of opportunity, and regain your focus as an immediate action
- You then Barrage, attacking twice
end round

If you want a failsafe for the focus, simply take Blitz focus later to get a second chance to recover, when you barrage, in case your trap misses

Did I get this correctly?

You also need the Rapid Placement talent, but yes, this seems accurate by RAW.

A monster with human-like intelligence has BAB 16 and picks up a level in any one of the classes in spheres of might. This creature then picks up the berserker sphere and takes the bone-breaker exertion.
Does its brutal strike now apply a -1 to attack and damage rolls, or -5?

-5. There is no "practitioner level" in SoM. The effects of combat talents are all determined by BAB or HD, making it easy for any character (or monster) to buy into the system via Extra Combat Talent.

[Ssalarn]

A monster with human-like intelligence has BAB 16 and picks up a level in any one of the classes in spheres of might. This creature then picks up the berserker sphere and takes the bone-breaker exertion.
Does its brutal strike now apply a -1 to attack and damage rolls, or -5?

-5. Your BAB based abilities don't distinguish between your sources of BAB, just how many points of BAB you actually have.

[Aipaca]

Just wondering if this is an intentional interaction?

Conscript Specialisations - Sniper Sphere Specialisation - Precision Shots lets you use a move action to steady your weapon, but in order to use your Deadly Shot Sniper Sphere ability you (probably) need to use your move action each turn to reload your weapon to regain martial focus? So you'll only be using Precision Shots on the first round of combat or on a round in which you are not going to be able to use Deadly Shot?

Thanks

[Wartex1]

I noticed something about the Gladiator Talent Spectacle.

While not exactly the same, it is remarkably similar to the Gory Finish feat but that's not listed as an Associated Feat for the talent.

EDIT: Stupid Autocorrect

Got Finish?

[digiman619]

I've made a character for a SoP/SoM game and one of the other players argues that while the unarmed spheres let him do more damage w/unarmed strikes and counts as IUS for prerequisites, it doesn't let him use US for AoO's or use them without provoking. I don't think it's supposed to work like that, so I'd like official clarification.

[Ssalarn]

I've made a character for a SoP/SoM game and one of the other players argues that while the unarmed spheres let him do more damage w/unarmed strikes and counts as IUS for prerequisites, it doesn't let him use US for AoO's or use them without provoking. I don't think it's supposed to work like that, so I'd like official clarification.

You can make AoOs and not provoke while using unarmed strikes with an SoM character. For some reason we lost a line of text during layout that specifically let you count as having the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, but that is getting added back in for the update.

[Lirya]

I ran a mega-encounter in my spheres campaign today.

The PCs (8th level) are currently travelling through an evil empire (they want to investigate something on the other side of the continent, and the empire has the best roads) and have heard a lot of rumors of how Drow are currently harassing the empire so much that they have issued a curfew and martial law in their cities. Staying at an inn in a major city for the night, they keep watch and notice a massive uproar and buildings going up in flames not far away. Being a fairly good aligned and heroic group they go to the rescue.

It is a new moon, so visibility is kind of bad. But one PC has a sword that lights up a 20-foot radius while another has a tattoo on his hand that creates a cone of light, and most of them have darkvision. The barbarian is running on the rooftops while carrying the gnome bard, the elementalist is flying, while the heavy armor incanter and the dwarf striker follow the streets. The encounter starts with the PCs noticing 4 Ogre Spiders clinging to the walls at the side of a street. While easily killing the spiders, they hear screams and explosions from inside the buildings at both sides of the street. The barbarian runs inside the house on his side of the street and find two humans who are bleeding out as well as a Minotaur and a goblin in the staircase. Meanwhile a 2nd Minotaur and a 2nd goblin attacks the party from the house on the opposite side of
the street.

One of the Goblins, trained in the alchemy sphere, throws an improved alchemist fire that puts both the barbarian and his Minotaur friend on fire while the Minotaur takes a nasty wound from the barbarian. The Incanter enters the house, puts out the fire, takes a bottled lightning to the face, and leaves the house. Then the Minotaur shoves the barbarian into the wall before bull rushing him through it twice (swift action bull rush). The bard jumps in through a window and heals the barbarian + humans who are bleeding out. Meanwhile out in the street, the striker grapples his Minotaur and throws him into the ground so well the Minotaur gets stuck.

At this point, two Orcs and a Flesh Golem round the corner and try to attack, only the Orcs all get disintegrated by the elementalist. The Flesh Golem proceeds to go berserk and starts murdering the Minotaur who is entangled by the street. After another round or so of cleanup, they hear lots of screams and see a massive shadow as a Giant Tarantula is charging down the street towards them. What they don't see is the invisible Drider who managed to sneak up behind them.

Unleashing a fully augmented Chain Shock blast, the invisible Drider hopes to catch the party by surprise but loses its natural 20 against the striker to a forced reroll from the bard and then completely misses due to a rebuff from the elementalist. Since the Drider is still invisible the barbarian charges the foe he can see (Giant Tarantula), avoid the attack of opportunity and deals massive damage plus some bleed. The bleed reduces the Tarantula to 0 hp, causing it to start dying after biting the barbarian (and denying the barbarian a recharge of his martial focus). The elementalist seeks cover inside a building while drinking a potion of invisibility (they exist in my game), and the bard follows the example by drinking his own. Realizing she is in a bad position, the Drider uses guided strike with an electric blast before starting to withdraw.

To the rest of the players great annoyance, the barbarian drinks his potion of see invisibility and pursues the Drider straight into the Drow ambush. Magical darkness is triggered by the drider arriving at tonight's Drow hideout. As a proper barbarian, he spell sunders the darkness but only manages to suppress it for 2 rounds, so before he knows it he is under fire from a Drow Sniper and an apprentice Drow Storm Priestess while a Drow Mageknight teleports up behind him to flank with the Drider. Seeing their barbarian is in a bit of a bind, the party rushes to his aid with all they got, and through lots of lucky rolls on his miss chance and with his Defensive Slice the barbarian somehow survives the drow ambush. It all ends with the striker catching the apprentice Storm Priestess off guard while the elementalist managed to knock the sniper into the waiting barbarian greatsword.

[Galacktic]

Question regarding the Punishment Legendary talent:

When you deal damage to a creature while you have dam-
age in your delayed damage pool, you may spend an immediate
action to expend your martial focus and deal damage equal to
your delayed damage pool to the target creature. If you possess
the Cold Iron Call or Durable talents, you may also inflict any
effects you are postponing with those abilities. If the effect al-
lowed a save, the target may make a save immediately at the
original DC.

A successful Fortitude save reduces the amount of damage
transferred by half and negates the transfer of any effects.

Does this mean that all the damage in their pool is transferred to the enemy, or they just deal extra damage equal to their pool? The paragraph implies the latter, the second sentence implies the former.

[AlienFromBeyond]

The Black Powder Brawler archetype for the Striker replaces Punishing Pummler, but then says it modifies it in a later section. Kind of confusing, and makes me wonder if maybe Leading Blow is supposed to be replacing something else.

[stack]

Question regarding the Punishment Legendary talent:



Does this mean that all the damage in their pool is transferred to the enemy, or they just deal extra damage equal to their pool? The paragraph implies the latter, the second sentence implies the former.

Originally it was transferred, but was changed to just additional damage + copying effects (if you have the additional talents).

[Wartex1]

I noticed something about the Black Powder Striker as well. Its ability seems to resemble the Gun Kata talent, but it costs resources to use and doesn't seem that much better until it gives further additional attacks. Why not adjust it so that the archetype gets Gun Kata for free but also gets an ability that modifies the talent, allowing for additional attacks with the talent instead of making a separate ability for it?

[digiman619]

Since the Street Fighter archetype only replaces the bonus feats, unarmed strike and flurry of blows class features, shouldn't it also be an archetype for the Unchained Monk? Because last I checked, UnMonks can't take Monk archetypes according to RAW.

And while I'm at it, here's a list of compatible SoP/SoM archetypes just to tide us over until Champions of the Spheres is out:

Worldsoul Incarnate + Berserker
Sphere Bloodrager + Stormlord (Though it does reduce it to moderate BAB (+15 at 20th))
War Hero + Coiled Blade Never mind I messed up.
Glass Eye Gunmage + Gunfighter
Sphere Paladin + Dirt Spattered Angel (If there was a Sphere Antipaladin archetype, it would stack with Blood-Soaked Demon)

[EldritchWeaver]

Since the Street Fighter archetype only replaces the bonus feats, unarmed strike and flurry of blows class features, shouldn't it also be an archetype for the Unchained Monk? Because last I checked, UnMonks can't take Monk archetypes according to RAW.

I thought you can take an monk archetype in theory, but most are simply incompatible.

[digiman619]

I thought you can take an monk archetype in theory, but most are simply incompatible.

Page 8 of Pahtfinder Unchained specifically calls out Unmonk not getting Monk archetypes.

Finally, with the exception of the monk, these classes should work with any of the archetypes from previous books as long as the classes still have the appropriate class features to replace

That's been enough for the general consensus to conclude that UnMonks can't take Monk archetypes without the explicit say so of the GM. Besides, there's presadent in the Worldsoul Incarnate being for both chained and unchained Barbarians, as well as the Warrior of Blind Faith archetype being for both Paladins and Antipaladins.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

With both SoP and SoM using the term “Talent” to describe their core option, was there ever discussion of better integrating the existing talent system so prevalent in Pathfinder classes? Rogue Talents simply being magic or might talents exclusive to Rogues, etc?

[stack]

With both SoP and SoM using the term “Talent” to describe their core option, was there ever discussion of better integrating the existing talent system so prevalent in Pathfinder classes? Rogue Talents simply being magic or might talents exclusive to Rogues, etc?

That class menu options sometimes share the name "talent' wasn't really considered to be an issue nor something to base further design off of. Not really sure what the benefit would be unless you rewrote the entire rogue talent list, and if you did that, class-locking it would be contrary to sphere-system design goals.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

That class menu options sometimes share the name "talent' wasn't really considered to be an issue nor something to base further design off of. Not really sure what the benefit would be unless you rewrote the entire rogue talent list, and if you did that, class-locking it would be contrary to sphere-system design goals.

Why would it require rewriting the talent list rather than simply adding the existing talents as Rogue-exclusive additional options?

[Ssalarn]

Why would it require rewriting the talent list rather than simply adding the existing talents as Rogue-exclusive additional options?

For one, there's no such thing as a rogue exclusive talent. Rogue talents, traditionally very weak, have dozens of back doors that other classes can use to access them. The sphere talents all also sit within a rules framework; you'd need to reiterate that framework in the new talents to clarify how they all work when acquired in that manner, including caster levels, DCs, spell pool progression, etc. That's a significant amount of work when the Rogue already has several avenues to acquiring combat and spell talents, from archetypes to simply acquiring the relevant feats (many of which can already be taken through rogue talents that grant feats, like Combat Trick). So you've got a fairly sketchy benefit that requires more than a moment's work, opens up a lot of possibilities that we can't really predict easily, and doesn't even necessarily carry a ton of value at the end of the day.

On the wider scale, not all things called "talents" are equal. Rogue talents are pretty weak on average, but Investigator, Slayer, and Vigilante talents are very strong. There's not really a consolidated baseline of what something called a "talent" is worth, because the power of a talent varies greatly depending on the class it was designed for (and when it was written). When all of the classes already have ways to buy into the system with archetypes, feat acquisition talents, etc. there's just not a lot of point to trying to tie the various types of talents together.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Fair enough I suppose. Just seemed like having the option would be better than explaining to every new player why there are three things all called a Talent.

[Aipaca]

Does the Shield Sphere: Forced Reboud (Deflect) talent allow the enemy to take an AoO?

[AlienFromBeyond]

And while I'm at it, here's a list of compatible SoP/SoM archetypes just to tide us over until Champions of the Spheres is out:

War Hero + Coiled Blade

Uh, no they aren't. They give up the same feats, I even made a post about this.

[Ssalarn]

Fair enough I suppose. Just seemed like having the option would be better than explaining to every new player why there are three things all called a Talent.

That ship sailed with the Rogue, Investigator, Slayer, and Vigilante (which actually has two different types of talents), the Magic Talent trait, advanced talents for the aforementioned classes, the Arcane Talent feat, the Dual Talent human racial trait, etc. You've got to wade through a dozen different types of talents before you even get out of Paizo's core product line, and if anything, conflating those talents even further by trying to stitch some of them together with others is going to muddy the waters even further rather than bring any clarity.