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  1. - Top - End - #421
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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Oh, one thing I noticed that was missing for converting a partial caster to a practitioner is what to do with class features that affect spells and whatnot, like the Skald's Spell Kenning. For the other classes, at least, there are archetypes which replace those, but the Skald doesn't have a SoM archetype, so I'm not sure what to do with Spell Kenning. Should I just trade it for appropriate bonus talents (Warleader and Berserker for Skald)?
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  2. - Top - End - #422
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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by Mehangel View Post
    On the subject of Champions of the Spheres, can you tell us of any changes to the Sage class? Mostly I am curious about the following:
    - Has the Sage class been modified so to be given the 'Casting' class feature, so that it could
    A) Gain a Casting Tradition (perhaps granting bonus ki points instead of spell points during levels where such would be gained)
    B) Resolve issues with Sage characters who multiclass into other spherecasting classes.
    C) Resolve issues for meeting spherecasting feat prerequisites? (including feats such as: Cantrips, Circle Casting, Contingency, Counterspell, Create Spellbook, Ritual Caster, Spellcrafting, etc)
    - Any chance of the Sage also getting the Blended Training class feature (like the Prodigy)
    - How many archetypes are currently being worked on for the Sage class (if any), and what do they do?
    Bumping these questions a second time.

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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by Wartex1 View Post
    Oh, one thing I noticed that was missing for converting a partial caster to a practitioner is what to do with class features that affect spells and whatnot, like the Skald's Spell Kenning. For the other classes, at least, there are archetypes which replace those, but the Skald doesn't have a SoM archetype, so I'm not sure what to do with Spell Kenning. Should I just trade it for appropriate bonus talents (Warleader and Berserker for Skald)?
    Not a designer, but I'd just houserule it to instead temporarily gain access to a Talent you don't otherwise have, but qualify for. Flavor it as recalling a maneuver (or charm if you keep it magic) from a tale you know.

  4. - Top - End - #424
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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Am I the only one getting a blank page when loading these?
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  5. - Top - End - #425
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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by AlienFromBeyond View Post
    Which one wouldn't know about without you posting it just now because it's buried in the middle of this thread, no announcement in the first post, and the archetype playtest doc doesn't even cross-link to it like the various SoM playtest docs did to each other. Don't jump down someone else's throat for not knowing information you do not easily provide.
    Anyone who backed the Kickstarter actually should have got the link in an e-mail update. So if he didn't know, that means he literally decided to come into this thread and start talking down to our team because he didnt like that the free playtest materials we wrote weren't trying to completely rewrite Paizo's class.

    Quote Originally Posted by arkangel111 View Post
    *truth*
    Thank you.

    Now back to the real discussion on hand. I can't seem to get the links to work, it keeps pulling open a blank page, no matter which option I choose. Is the playtest closed? I noticed an issue with an interaction between 2 abilities I wanted to bring up but can't seem to get it to work today.
    The main SoM playtest should be closed now that the .pdf is out, but the archetypes and gish classes should still be up. What interactions were you having a problem with?


    Quote Originally Posted by Wartex1 View Post
    Oh, one thing I noticed that was missing for converting a partial caster to a practitioner is what to do with class features that affect spells and whatnot, like the Skald's Spell Kenning. For the other classes, at least, there are archetypes which replace those, but the Skald doesn't have a SoM archetype, so I'm not sure what to do with Spell Kenning. Should I just trade it for appropriate bonus talents (Warleader and Berserker for Skald)?
    Yeah, that would be a good way to go. I'll bring this up with the team, both whether we should have a general rule about class features that interact with casting, and if we have room to add skald in somewhere since it probably should be represented.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aipaca View Post
    1. Conscript Specialisations - Sniper Sphere Specialisation - Precision Shots lets you use a move action to steady your weapon, but in order to use your Deadly Shot Sniper Sphere ability you (probably) need to use your move action each turn to reload your weapon to regain martial focus? So you'll only be using Precision Shots on the first round of combat or on a round in which you are not going to be able to use Deadly Shot?
    Let me double-check that a bit. It might have been one those things where we flipped it from a swift action so it didn't compete with other options. I'm not sure if it's something we can/will change, but I'll definitely at least see if we can't improve the synergy.

    2. Does the Shield Sphere: Forced Rebound (Deflect) talent allow the enemy to take an AoO?
    It's not supposed to, which I believe we're clarifying

    3. For the Technician Improved Firearm Invention, does explosive rounds deal half damage dealt or half weapon damage dice in the radius? Eg. if you have Mechanical Savant do you deal 1/4 BAB damage in the radius?

    4. For the Independent Invention with the Suit improvement, what exactly can you use of your own abilities while inside the suit - skills, gadgets, other inventions?
    I bumped these over to the team since Technician isn't something I worked on. I'll update this with an answer once I get one.

    5. Thoughts on allowing Equipment Sphere: Armour Training to be taken a third time to ignore move speed reduction from Medium Armour? Or just make it a function of taking it a second time if you already have light Armour Prof.?
    I think we actually had something like this originally and decided that movement speed improvements were more "class feature territory".

    Quote Originally Posted by Mehangel View Post
    On the subject of Champions of the Spheres, can you tell us of any changes to the Sage class? Mostly I am curious about the following:
    - Has the Sage class been modified so to be given the 'Casting' class feature
    No. The sage really isn't intended to be a caster, it's a martial artist whose abilities bridge the gap between the mundane and the magical. It's possible to make a sage who doesn't pick up any casting talents and that's really how we want it to work.
    [/quote]

    A) Gain a Casting Tradition (perhaps granting bonus ki points instead of spell points during levels where such would be gained)
    Gaining a casting tradition was something we ultimately decided against.

    [/quote]
    B) Resolve issues with Sage characters who multiclass into other spherecasting classes.[/quote]

    This should not be a lingering issue as the sage can spend ki in place of spell points and vice versa when multiclassing, as well as treating its class level as caster levels for sphere effects.

    C) Resolve issues for meeting spherecasting feat prerequisites? (including feats such as: Cantrips, Circle Casting, Contingency, Counterspell, Create Spellbook, Ritual Caster, Spellcrafting, etc)
    Ultimately we felt those options didn't align with the class we were building.

    - Any chance of the Sage also getting the Blended Training class feature (like the Prodigy)
    Probably not since we don't want to present the sage as a caster.

    - How many archetypes are currently being worked on for the Sage class (if any), and what do they do?
    None for CotS. We're beyond out of room and the three new gish classes have a lot of replayability, so we're foregoing archetypes for them in favor of fitting as many archetypes in for other classes as our page count and budget allow.
    Last edited by Ssalarn; 2017-10-25 at 12:30 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #426
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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    I'm not sure if this question has been asked before, but what is the interaction between Vital Strike and attack action abilities that give more than one attack, such as the Barrage Sphere's base ability, or Suppressive Rush from the Open Hand Sphere? Do all attacks gain Vital Strike damage, or is it only one attack, or what?

  7. - Top - End - #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaouse View Post
    I'm not sure if this question has been asked before, but what is the interaction between Vital Strike and attack action abilities that give more than one attack, such as the Barrage Sphere's base ability, or Suppressive Rush from the Open Hand Sphere? Do all attacks gain Vital Strike damage, or is it only one attack, or what?
    With those (as mentioned previously), the additional attacks from those abilities are not actually part of the Attack Action, so do not benefit from Vital Strike. Due to an error, the language that indicates this is not present in the Barrage sphere, though it is supposed to be.

    However, the initial attack is still part of the Attack Action, so it can benefit from Vital Strike.
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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Don't know if I'm being dense or something, but I'm reading the Prodigy right now and I can't tell how you're supposed to reliably build up links after the opener (or are the openers still valid for gaining links beyond the first)? Apart from Counting Coup, they all seem pretty situational.

  9. - Top - End - #429
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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisAsmadi View Post
    Don't know if I'm being dense or something, but I'm reading the Prodigy right now and I can't tell how you're supposed to reliably build up links after the opener (or are the openers still valid for gaining links beyond the first)? Apart from Counting Coup, they all seem pretty situational.
    All openers are also links, if you have at least 1 link. It is stated in the opener rules.
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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by EldritchWeaver View Post
    All openers are also links, if you have at least 1 link. It is stated in the opener rules.
    It's actually in the Link Component rules, that's why I missed it.

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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    EldritchWeaver and WarTex1 were quick on the draw, but just in case there's any question about whether or not their answers were "official" (and they were both correct in their responses):

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaouse View Post
    I'm not sure if this question has been asked before, but what is the interaction between Vital Strike and attack action abilities that give more than one attack, such as the Barrage Sphere's base ability, or Suppressive Rush from the Open Hand Sphere? Do all attacks gain Vital Strike damage, or is it only one attack, or what?
    Most of them clarify that the additional attack is a free/swift/immediate/etc. action and only the initial attack qualifies for the Vital Strike bonus damage. Barrage sphere lost some text at some point muddying the waters, but only the initial attack is intended to benefit from Vital Strike.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisAsmadi View Post
    Don't know if I'm being dense or something, but I'm reading the Prodigy right now and I can't tell how you're supposed to reliably build up links after the opener (or are the openers still valid for gaining links beyond the first)? Apart from Counting Coup, they all seem pretty situational.
    As noted, openers also count as links, so you should have enough options to maintain your momentum, though playtest feedback on the prodigy has been quiet and we're very open to hearing any feedback you have from playing the class.

  12. - Top - End - #432
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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Thanks for the quick response, but I would like a bit more clarification.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ssalarn View Post
    Most of them clarify that the additional attack is a free/swift/immediate/etc. action and only the initial attack qualifies for the Vital Strike bonus damage. Barrage sphere lost some text at some point muddying the waters, but only the initial attack is intended to benefit from Vital Strike.
    Here's the text for Suppressive Rush:

    Quote Originally Posted by Suppressive Rush
    As an attack action, you may expend your martial focus to make two attacks with your unarmed strike, targeting the creature’s touch AC and dealing 1/2 damage on a successful attack (making more than one successful attack with this talent still only counts as a single successful attack for the purpose of feats and class features which grant bonuses upon landing multiple successful attacks). The creature may choose to automatically block all of these attacks, in which case your unarmed strikes automatically miss, but that creature then takes a -2 penalty to all attack and damage rolls until they take a Total Defense action or until they are not subject to any hostile actions for one round. For every 4 points of base attack bonus you possess, you may make an additional unarmed strike as part of this attack action, and the penalty that creature takes for blocking your Suppressive Rush increases by -2.
    It's initial ability allows you to make 2 unarmed attacks as an attack action. Since attack actions can be combined with Vital Strike, do both "initial attacks" gain Vital Strike damage (albeit with the 1/2 damage penalty) or does only 1 of the two? When your BAB increases and you gain additional attacks, am I meant to understand that they do NOT gain Vital Strike damage, as they are "add-ons" to the attack action, rather than the attack action itself?

    Is there a universal Rule that states that Vital Strike may only be applied once to any specific attack action?
    Last edited by Kaouse; 2017-10-25 at 01:25 PM.

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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaouse View Post
    Thanks for the quick response, but I would like a bit more clarification.



    Here's the text for Suppressive Rush:



    It's initial ability allows you to make 2 unarmed attacks as an attack action. Since attack actions can be combined with Vital Strike, do both "initial attacks" gain Vital Strike damage (albeit with the 1/2 damage penalty) or does only 1 of the two? When your BAB increases and you gain additional attacks, am I meant to understand that they do NOT gain Vital Strike damage, as they are "add-ons" to the attack action, rather than the attack action itself?

    Is there a universal Rule that states that Vital Strike may only be applied once to any specific attack action?
    There's not, but I suspect that Suppressive Rush is in the same boat as the Barrage ability where it should be specifying that those additional attacks are made separately. Let me double check with Ehn though since that's one of his. As written, you would be correct in interpreting that as indicating that all the attacks benefit from Vital Strike.

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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Regardless of tone, you should at least consider the critique he offered the Magus archetype, Sslarn. His tone was awful, but he had valid critique which is what the playtest is about. (And yes, the archetype playtest document needs more visibility - just dropping it in an existing thread with no actual announcement is a terrible way of getting it known, and it's probably the least viewed document you guys have released yet due to that.)

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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Hoping that the eloquent and well reasoned thoughts on the Technician found here might be addressed. I'm looking to use these in a game and I'd really like to know what the consensus might be.
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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Here's another question then, If you use the Shield Sphere's Punch Block talent, can you use this to deflect touch attacks? For reference:

    Quote Originally Posted by Punch Block
    When you use your active defense, you may choose to make
    an attack roll as if making a shield bash and must use the
    result of this attack in place of your AC for resolving
    the attack
    , even if lower. You must be capable
    of making shield bash attacks with the shield
    to use this ability.
    Emphasis mine.

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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by Galacktic View Post
    (And yes, the archetype playtest document needs more visibility - just dropping it in an existing thread with no actual announcement is a terrible way of getting it known, and it's probably the least viewed document you guys have released yet due to that.)
    I very much agree that a either N. Jolly needs to update the initial post with all of the updated Playtesting material or there needs to be a new thread, assuming feedback on the playtest is actually desired.

    EDIT: I also am unable to view the initial Hybrid Class document. It's just a blank page as described earlier.
    Last edited by Mithril Leaf; 2017-10-25 at 02:13 PM.
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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by Galacktic View Post
    Regardless of tone, you should at least consider the critique he offered the Magus archetype, Sslarn. His tone was awful, but he had valid critique which is what the playtest is about. (And yes, the archetype playtest document needs more visibility - just dropping it in an existing thread with no actual announcement is a terrible way of getting it known, and it's probably the least viewed document you guys have released yet due to that.)
    We sent update e-mails to all of our Kickstarter backers with direct links. I've asked Jolly to get those links added to the OP and that should be happening right now.
    As I told that particular poster multiple times across multiple forums, we're not trying to "fix" the Magus. We're trying to tweak the Magus to work within the framework of our system while preserving as much of it as possible. I'm not trying to defend the magus (or condemn it), I'm saying that there are tons of people who love the class and we're not trying to rewrite it to the point that it's no longer recognizable. When you come in throwing a tantrum and implying that the members of the design team are stupid or don't know what we're doing, especially when you're giving strong indications that you aren't even a paying customer, you're not asking to be taken seriously. To the contrary, you are providing us with reasons to ignore what you are saying. Instead of following that impulse, I provided reasoned and researched answers with proposals for how we could adjust things while clarifying what options aren't up for discussion, which the poster ignored in favor of continuing to throw a tantrum. If you want to be given the same respect and consideration as any other individual, you need to give the same respect and consideration as any other person. As you yourself have very clearly demonstrated, that is entirely possible.

    So, that being said-
    We're looking at both the Talent Blending option and the Mystic's Internal Fortitude. There are some real issues with Talent Blending that we need to address related to both its relative strength and how it interacts within the dynamics we've created for Spheres of Might, which is one of the reasons we've temporarily pulled the mageknight mystic talent granting it while we work through the process of deciding how we want everything to work together. Right now there is a very high chance that all instances of Talent Blending are going to be pulled from the project; the prodigy has other ways of blending magic and martial talents and currently it's so ridiculously good as a low level class feature that everyone who wants to max out their DPR while stacking on extra riders is going to be hard-pressed not to dip two levels to get it. That's part of why Internal Fortitude goes off a limited use structure gated by class levels; so that if you dip it you're only going to get that 1 use, not a fully progressed ability.

    So, assume that if we haven't touched a magus class feature already, we're probably not going to. We've actually been looking at ways to touch even fewer class features so that we can open up the core archetypes it's compatible with. If you want a completely rewritten martial and magic mixer, that's why we wrote the prodigy. That doesn't mean that we don't have some room to make adjustments within the Mystic archetype though. Right now, Advanced Spellstrike has gotten some pretty significant buffs over core Spellstrike; you can use it with any combat style, not just light weapons, you can combine it with Vital Strike, and you can add all of the cool extra abilities from SoM onto it. For a really optimized build, this actually makes it better than traditional Spell Combat + Spellstrike when used with an attack spell until nearly 15th level. As such, something really should give elsewhere in the archetype, and Spell Combat was the logical place for that to happen since it doesn't really jive with our goals of mobile, cinematic combat anyways. We recognize that there are some people who don't like Internal Casting, and that's an area where we potentially have some flexibility. Some possible changes could include-
    • Increasing the number of times Internal Casting can be used to 1/ class level
    • Making Internal Casting (or any potential replacement) viable for archetype swapping as long as the other archetype trades out all instances of spell combat and its upgrades.
    • Rewriting it into an ability that would not be compatible with Advanced Spellstrike, but would allow you to expend your martial focus to move up to your half your speed, make an attack action, and cast a spell, using your full round and swift actions.


    We're more than happy to hear any thoughts on preferences regarding any of those changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    I very much agree that a either N. Jolly needs to update the initial post with all of the updated Playtesting material or there needs to be a new thread, assuming feedback on the playtest is actually desired.

    EDIT: I also am unable to view the initial Hybrid Class document. It's just a blank page as described earlier.
    Jolly should be updating the OP now. He's been on other projects for a bit and we haven't really had him available. Adam cleared out a lot of the old playtest links after SoM became available for purchase, but I think that someone should be carrying the Sage and Troubadour over to one of the live links shortly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaouse View Post
    Here's another question then, If you use the Shield Sphere's Punch Block talent, can you use this to deflect touch attacks?

    It looks like Stack is double-checking that, but as of now I believe that yes, Punch Block can be used against touch attacks.

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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaouse View Post
    Here's another question then, If you use the Shield Sphere's Punch Block talent, can you use this to deflect touch attacks? For reference:



    Emphasis mine.
    It applies to touch attacks as well. Picture smacking the mage's arm with the brim of your shield before his hand lands the touch (or something to that effect).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quarian Rex View Post
    Hoping that the eloquent and well reasoned thoughts on the Technician found here might be addressed. I'm looking to use these in a game and I'd really like to know what the consensus might be.
    I've bumped that over to Adam so he can get you a response. The Technician is such a massive class that we're trying to leave responses to questions to the main designer, both so that designer intent is accurately reflected in the response and just in case any updates need to be made.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ssalarn View Post
    I've bumped that over to Adam so he can get you a response. The Technician is such a massive class that we're trying to leave responses to questions to the main designer, both so that designer intent is accurately reflected in the response and just in case any updates need to be made.
    Much thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ssalarn View Post
    *snip* R.I.P. talent blending
    Damn, and here I was coming suggest a Martial Bard archetype giving talent blending in exchange for versatile performance or something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aipaca View Post
    Damn, and here I was coming suggest a Martial Bard archetype giving talent blending in exchange for versatile performance or something.
    It's not really 100% as to whether it's "dead" currently or just under revision. One of the big things we're tackling is that it's so good that if we add it anywhere, it becomes a must-have for anyone who wants to both cast spells and swing swords. It's especially problematic as such a low level ability where it's just screaming "Take one/two levels of me on your way to your actual class!!!" For most builds there's not a lot of downside in taking that dip because the mid-caster/fighter classes are offering up a martial tradition, a casting tradition, and the normal bonus talents, so you're only losing that 1 talent from your spell and martial ability progression in exchange for a really potent ability.

    Whether the proper handling of that is going to be making it a feat, keeping it removed, or reintroducing it in a manner where its use is more consistent with its cost is something the team is still working on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ssalarn View Post
    We recognize that there are some people who don't like Internal Casting, and that's an area where we potentially have some flexibility. Some possible changes could include-
    • Increasing the number of times Internal Casting can be used to 1/ class level
    • Making Internal Casting (or any potential replacement) viable for archetype swapping as long as the other archetype trades out all instances of spell combat and its upgrades.
    • Rewriting it into an ability that would not be compatible with Advanced Spellstrike, but would allow you to expend your martial focus to move up to your half your speed, make an attack action, and cast a spell, using your full round and swift actions.
    Personally, I feel like the last one would be best. Internal Casting doesn't really seem like it "fits". Advanced Spellstrike already covers using offensive touch spells by adding them as a rider to your attack action, but leaves you high and dry if you want to use other spells (which aren't self-buffs only), move, and still attack. Limitations to keep it from being an obvious dip choice should be kept, but making it a "per-day" thing when Advanced Spellstrike isn't one just makes a player feel like they're forced into the old "spam destruction all day" route again. It'd be fair to make it require you to stay with Magus to be at its best (no longer need to spend martial focus, get full speed movement, remove an attack penalty, bonuses when concentrating) to serve as a way to strike a balance between someone investing fully in the class and someone just dipping for the big feature.

    Of course, I also still think Armor Training being forced is wonky, but that horse is probably rotting already.

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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by Drifter S. View Post
    Personally, I feel like the last one would be best. Internal Casting doesn't really seem like it "fits". Advanced Spellstrike already covers using offensive touch spells by adding them as a rider to your attack action, but leaves you high and dry if you want to use other spells (which aren't self-buffs only), move, and still attack. Limitations to keep it from being an obvious dip choice should be kept, but making it a "per-day" thing when Advanced Spellstrike isn't one just makes a player feel like they're forced into the old "spam destruction all day" route again. It'd be fair to make it require you to stay with Magus to be at its best (no longer need to spend martial focus, get full speed movement, remove an attack penalty, bonuses when concentrating) to serve as a way to strike a balance between someone investing fully in the class and someone just dipping for the big feature.

    Of course, I also still think Armor Training being forced is wonky, but that horse is probably rotting already.
    Thanks for the feedback! We're probably going to let this subject roll for another day or two while we accrue feedback and hammer out our thoughts internally before we make any changes, but I'm leaning towards option 3 myself.

  26. - Top - End - #446
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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by Ssalarn View Post
    It's not really 100% as to whether it's "dead" currently or just under revision. One of the big things we're tackling is that it's so good that if we add it anywhere, it becomes a must-have for anyone who wants to both cast spells and swing swords. It's especially problematic as such a low level ability where it's just screaming "Take one/two levels of me on your way to your actual class!!!" For most builds there's not a lot of downside in taking that dip because the mid-caster/fighter classes are offering up a martial tradition, a casting tradition, and the normal bonus talents, so you're only losing that 1 talent from your spell and martial ability progression in exchange for a really potent ability.

    Whether the proper handling of that is going to be making it a feat, keeping it removed, or reintroducing it in a manner where its use is more consistent with its cost is something the team is still working on.
    Wait a second, my reading of Talent Blending (which was me just skimming it) assumed that it was only for talents gained by levels in the class giving spell blending. Wouldn't this be the solution to stop the dipping problem you are talking about?

    Edit - or just make it an optional exchange you can make on any 3/4 Spherecaster that gets full CL in a sphere in exchange for your full CL in a sphere; it just gives a bit of added versatility in exchange for some power.
    Last edited by Aipaca; 2017-10-25 at 05:30 PM.

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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by Aipaca View Post
    Wait a second, my reading of Spell Blending (which was me just skimming it) assumed that it was only for talents gained by levels in the class giving spell blending. Wouldn't this be the solution to stop the dipping problem you are talking about?
    Sorry! There's some confusion and it's probably my fault (though I blame Stack for the naming conventions ). We have/had two "blending options"

    Talent Blending, which acted as a kind of attack action oriented spell combat

    and

    Blended Training, the class feature we give to classes that can pull both magic and martial sphere talents.

    The one we've pulled is the faux Spell Combat one, not the talent progression one. Blended Training is still something we're supporting in the system and it would make perfect sense to carry that over to a bard build in place of spellcasting.

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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by Ssalarn View Post
    Sorry! There's some confusion and it's probably my fault (though I blame Stack for the naming conventions ). We have/had two "blending options"

    Talent Blending, which acted as a kind of attack action oriented spell combat

    and

    Blended Training, the class feature we give to classes that can pull both magic and martial sphere talents.

    The one we've pulled is the faux Spell Combat one, not the talent progression one. Blended Training is still something we're supporting in the system and it would make perfect sense to carry that over to a bard build in place of spellcasting.
    Ahhhh that's definitely my bad, sorry Sslarn! I'll blame it on you guys putting out so much fantastic content. So much to read and so many concepts to enable. I didn't get around to backing but I bought SoM on release and I am having so much fun with it, you guys really do great work.

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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by Aipaca View Post
    Ahhhh that's definitely my bad, sorry Sslarn! I'll blame it on you guys putting out so much fantastic content. So much to read and so many concepts to enable. I didn't get around to backing but I bought SoM on release and I am having so much fun with it, you guys really do great work.
    No worries, and thank you! I'll pass your compliments along to the team.

  30. - Top - End - #450
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    Default Re: [Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

    Quote Originally Posted by Drifter S. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ssalarn View Post
    We recognize that there are some people who don't like Internal Casting, and that's an area where we potentially have some flexibility. Some possible changes could include-
    • Increasing the number of times Internal Casting can be used to 1/ class level
    • Making Internal Casting (or any potential replacement) viable for archetype swapping as long as the other archetype trades out all instances of spell combat and its upgrades.
    • Rewriting it into an ability that would not be compatible with Advanced Spellstrike, but would allow you to expend your martial focus to move up to your half your speed, make an attack action, and cast a spell, using your full round and swift actions.
    Personally, I feel like the last one would be best. Internal Casting doesn't really seem like it "fits". Advanced Spellstrike already covers using offensive touch spells by adding them as a rider to your attack action, but leaves you high and dry if you want to use other spells (which aren't self-buffs only), move, and still attack. Limitations to keep it from being an obvious dip choice should be kept, but making it a "per-day" thing when Advanced Spellstrike isn't one just makes a player feel like they're forced into the old "spam destruction all day" route again. It'd be fair to make it require you to stay with Magus to be at its best (no longer need to spend martial focus, get full speed movement, remove an attack penalty, bonuses when concentrating) to serve as a way to strike a balance between someone investing fully in the class and someone just dipping for the big feature.

    Of course, I also still think Armor Training being forced is wonky, but that horse is probably rotting already.
    Another vote for option number three. The Magus is a class based around casting spells in combat. That is its one defining feature and reducing that to a limited use ability does not maintain the intent of the class. Opening up weapon selection in Spellstrike in no way balances the removal of the Magus' core ability to keep casting spells while engaged in melee combat.

    Adding higher level options to Spell Combat could resolve the worry about dip abuse. There were ideas thrown about in the Alas, poor Sphere Magus thread. Perhaps something like...
    Quote Originally Posted by Quarian Rex View Post
    this is one of the main differences between Vancian and SoP magic. Concentration was a rarity in Vancian, but is the absolute default in SoP and so I think that it needs to be taken into account. How about if while using Spell Combat the Magus automatically passes all concentration checks to maintain concentration due to damage if it is provoked by someone that they threaten? That's a bit of a long-winded way to put it but I hope you see where I'm going. The key here is not necessarily being immune to concentration checks but for the Magus to function at his peak within his realm of mastery.

    Having to roll the bones to keep your concentration when an arrow feathers you from out of the blue, or a dragon reaches out 20ft to maul you is perfectly fine. The Magus is not in control of those situations. But when he steps up to an opponent and starts slinging spells and steel, the very basis of his entire existence, incompetence is not an option. To me, this would be like requiring a Fighter to make a Dex check every time he is hit or drop his sword.
    Having something like this come online at an appropriate level could alleviate many issues and provide the magus a unique option that is well within his niche. And really, it's unique options like this, ones that don't break the game, that make people stick with a class.
    Last edited by Quarian Rex; 2017-10-25 at 06:00 PM.
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