[Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

[EldritchWeaver]

I'm not really sure what the objection is here. It seems as if a martial tradition is meant to be a one time benefit to a given character and this just makes sure that a coiled fighter gets one even if he didn't qualify for it before because, ya know, he's a fighter.

What are you seeing that makes this a problem?

For once, build dependencies. Depending on how you stack levels, your abilities differ. That just makes character building and proofing more complicated for little gain.

Thinking about it further, assuming an archetype doesn't grant a martial tradition by virtue of being a SoM archetype, then all this ability does is to preserve the original proficiencies. Which are enough to grant a martial tradition on its own. Which means that to benefit the most is to choose a tradition which doesn't grant proficiencies. Which means in this case you get effectively a bonus martial tradition, which is considered to be too strong. On the other end, this ability may do nothing. So we have a big variance, where otherwise the alternative is that you get a fixed ability and if you have it already, you get a bonus talent from that sphere.

Considering this, an alternative to that martial tradition would be to give a free bonus talent for any sphere. This would be thematic (fighter can do everything in theory) and would be calculable and constant in its effect.

P.S. - You're doing the lord's work with the google doc.

I deny that a supernatural being is involved in my actions. Nonetheless, thank you.

[Ssalarn]

Classes have those baked in on Full Attack, which Barrage is strictly better than in all cases, and Barrage can put out more attacks.

That's one of the reasons we actually placed a limit on the types of weapons Barrage works with. Barrage does gain 1 more attack than the Operative's Quad Attack, but it also accrues higher penalties as it goes, and Starfinder uses what is essentially a version of bounded accuracy, so those penalties aren't something you can brush off like in Pathfinder. The math actually maps very closely between the two, especially when resource cost is taken into account. We had access to the development copy of Starfinder for 3pp companies months before the book actually released, so we had time to verify the math and damage scaling. There's one or two instances where particular spheres skew slightly high at specific levels, but that's hard to avoid in the multi-attack spheres and still falls within the overall math framework of Starfinder.

Then you get to spheres which just straight-up add damage. Unlike Pathfinder, Starfinder has a core balance point, especially when it comes to DPR.

There are actually a very limited number of spheres that add damage, and in pretty much every instance they should still be behind the damage of simply making a full attack (which is a much more attractive option in a system with vehicles and hugely prevalent ranged weapons).

Thanks, Ssalarn! What about using the SoM classes in SF? Any adjustments you’d make or scaling bonuses that need removing?

Everything that adds bonus damage plays a roll, but generally these are already accounted for within the game's framework. The Blacksmith was actually one of the classes that we saw skewing the highest with Thunderous Blows and the Sharpen Weapons Maintenance, but Starfinder's different scaling for combat maneuver bonuses helps rein that in significantly. You'll probably want to cut the scaling on Sharpen Weapons in half or treat it more like Power attack where the damage bonus is accompanied by an accuracy penalty (maybe rename it "Overcharge Weapons").

Also, the Scholar, as queen of action economy enhancement and the mid to late game one-shot attack, can get crazy in Starfinder. If you're going the Cunning Attacker, Martial Study, Trick Arrows, Sniper route with a damaging [explosive] imposition, the scholar is a face-wrecking machine. You'll probably want to reduce the scaling 1d6/2 level abilities to 1d6/3, and 1d6/1 abilities to 1d6/2, and/or remove the Martial Study Knack. You'll want to emulate the Mechanic's action economy for Scholar pets as well, which is something I'm hoping we can touch on along with the Beastmastery sphere (or whatever we replace it with in Starfinder) in our first standalone SF release.

[Wartex1]

That's one of the reasons we actually placed a limit on the types of weapons Barrage works with. Barrage does gain 1 more attack than the Operative's Quad Attack, but it also accrues higher penalties as it goes, and Starfinder uses what is essentially a version of bounded accuracy, so those penalties aren't something you can brush off like in Pathfinder. The math actually maps very closely between the two, especially when resource cost is taken into account. We had access to the development copy of Starfinder for 3pp companies months before the book actually released, so we had time to verify the math and damage scaling. There's one or two instances where particular spheres skew slightly high at specific levels, but that's hard to avoid in the multi-attack spheres and still falls within the overall math framework of Starfinder.

Barrage's limitations are the same as a normal Full Attack, meaning it can be used with Longarms (which deal significantly more damage than Small Arms) and with full-BAB classes, drastically increasing its effectiveness. The Barrage Sphere completely outclasses Full Attacks in every way except when used by Operatives who have Quad Attack or Triple Attack w/ Multi-Weapon Fighting, and that's only with Small Arms and Operative Melee Weapons.

I recommend retuning Barrage's balance for Starfinder (though other spheres are mostly fine).

[Sho]

For once, build dependencies. Depending on how you stack levels, your abilities differ. That just makes character building and proofing more complicated for little gain.

Thinking about it further, assuming an archetype doesn't grant a martial tradition by virtue of being a SoM archetype, then all this ability does is to preserve the original proficiencies. Which are enough to grant a martial tradition on its own. Which means that to benefit the most is to choose a tradition which doesn't grant proficiencies. Which means in this case you get effectively a bonus martial tradition, which is considered to be too strong. On the other end, this ability may do nothing. So we have a big variance, where otherwise the alternative is that you get a fixed ability and if you have it already, you get a bonus talent from that sphere.

Considering this, an alternative to that martial tradition would be to give a free bonus talent for any sphere. This would be thematic (fighter can do everything in theory) and would be calculable and constant in its effect.

I agree with this idea. In an effort to make it simpler and still rewarding to its own system, there should likely still at least be one or two bonus Spheres or Talents gained when there is already a Martial Tradition gained by the character.

Edit: Or the more I think about it, just revert it.

[Quarian Rex]

For once, build dependencies. Depending on how you stack levels, your abilities differ. That just makes character building and proofing more complicated for little gain.

See, this ability is something that seems to be designed to remove most build order complications. It is there to play catch-up if needed. Granted, the benefit does seem to be greater so long as any levels before Coiled Blade Fighter don't have a martial tradition (getting full fighter proficiencies and a martial tradition) but I think that is balanced against having a martial sphere specialist lacking martial spheres in the early levels.

Considering this, an alternative to that martial tradition would be to give a free bonus talent for any sphere. This would be thematic (fighter can do everything in theory) and would be calculable and constant in its effect.

I really think that the current version works better without having to balance around further early level sphere stacking.

[Domar]

Since discussion has turned to star finder and I think it might have been missed earlier.

For the Starfinder conversion of the Sniping sphere, you need a note that says that Focusing Reload regains focus when using a move action to aim. In Starfinder sniping is effectively a full round action, eliminating the normal opportunities for focus recovery.

[Sho]

See, this ability is something that seems to be designed to remove most build order complications. It is there to play catch-up if needed. Granted, the benefit does seem to be greater so long as any levels before Coiled Blade Fighter don't have a martial tradition (getting full fighter proficiencies and a martial tradition) but I think that is balanced against having a martial sphere specialist lacking martial spheres in the early levels.

I really think that the current version works better without having to balance around further early level sphere stacking.

I'll be checking the book and the rules on-site a second time over, but my initial statement is that I remember that a multi-classing Practitioner gains no proficiency in equipment gained by other Practitioner or Non-Practitioner class levels.

Thus, there is still the discrepancy that a Practitioner class character multi-classing into Coiled Blade Fighter gains nothing except the initial first Talent at 1st Level due to the gained Expert Combat Talent Progression. The Extra Martial Tradition thus provided additional proficiency access or additional sphere and talent access to compliment itself.

[Quarian Rex]

I'll be checking the book and the rules on-site a second time over, but my initial statement is that I remember that a multi-classing Practitioner gains no proficiency in equipment gained by other Practitioner or Non-Practitioner class levels.

Thus, there is still the discrepancy that a Practitioner class character multi-classing into Coiled Blade Fighter gains nothing except the initial first Talent at 1st Level due to the gained Expert Combat Talent Progression. The Extra Martial Tradition thus provided additional proficiency access or additional sphere and talent access to compliment itself.

Our interpretations seem to line up. I just don't see that as a problem. I see this as equivalent to a caster gaining a bonus to caster level after starting with levels in a non-caster class (like with the Magical Knack trait), as opposed to gaining additional full casting progression, if that makes sense, gaining what you would have started with but losing out on the spheres/talents that you could have had. It is something to give non-sphere-martials an opportunity to catch up without providing full sphere-martials an additional front-loaded bonus for dipping.

In short, I see the martial tradition section of the Coiled Blade Fighter as a nice added bonus for the archetype, not something that is really considered in the balance of the archetype, nor something that needs to be compensated for if a character does not qualify for its benefit. Its presence, as is, serves a purpose and provides interesting options (both mechanical and fluff). Changing it to provide an extra sphere or similar would provoke additional balance considerations that aren't really necessary.

[Sho]

Our interpretations seem to line up. I just don't see that as a problem. I see this as equivalent to a caster gaining a bonus to caster level after starting with levels in a non-caster class (like with the Magical Knack trait), as opposed to gaining additional full casting progression, if that makes sense, gaining what you would have started with but losing out on the spheres/talents that you could have had. It is something to give non-sphere-martials an opportunity to catch up without providing full sphere-martials an additional front-loaded bonus for dipping.

In short, I see the martial tradition section of the Coiled Blade Fighter as a nice added bonus for the archetype, not something that is really considered in the balance of the archetype, nor something that needs to be compensated for if a character does not qualify for its benefit. Its presence, as is, serves a purpose and provides interesting options (both mechanical and fluff). Changing it to provide an extra sphere or similar would provoke additional balance considerations that aren't really necessary.

I personally see it as a problem. Coiled Blade Fighter on its own was good with the Extra Martial Tradition. If there is worry that there is sphere-stacking, then this is the class to still take after the change, as the Coiled Blade Fighter does not need to worry about Martial Traditions that provide all or mostly equipment/proficiency talents. Its proficiency with equipment is automatic. With Custom Martial Traditions, in the face of other Practitioners, it could get far more from one or two Spheres.

The idea that non-sphere-martials should be given an opportunity to "catch-up" should be something put to the part of the feat management and the archetypes, I would think. That is to say, why put them in a position to "catch-up" at all with good archetypes and near-equal if not equal reach for the feats and traits open to Practitioners. I'm still going to go with the idea that the initial draft in Coiled Blade Fighter was probably the better idea.

[Quarian Rex]

I personally see it as a problem. Coiled Blade Fighter on its own was good with the Extra Martial Tradition.

I am aware that you prefer having an extra 4 bonus talents thrown on as a first level dip. Many people would. That doesn't make it good game design. That's probably why it was changed.

The idea that non-sphere-martials should be given an opportunity to "catch-up" should be something put to the part of the feat management and the archetypes, I would think.

If a character is built from the ground up with being a sphere-martial in mind then you are correct. Sometimes things change in the middle of a game and this particular archetype provides options that deal with such niche cases particularly well.

Martial traditions are key components for SoM characters, equivalent to the 2 bonus talents gained by SoP casters upon taking the first level of a caster class. I think that using a fighter archetype to bridge that divide for late bloomers is a good way to deal with an odd situation.

I am aware that previously a one level dip into Coiled Blade was the mother of all martial dips (even better than Conscript). Correcting that mistake doesn't require any further buffs. The archetype if pretty damn good as is. No need to turn it back into dip-bait.

[Sho]

I am aware that previously a one level dip into Coiled Blade was the mother of all martial dips (even better than Conscript). Correcting that mistake doesn't require any further buffs. The archetype if pretty damn good as is. No need to turn it back into dip-bait.

I'd go so far to say that it's now better than Conscript, if due to the points made to its proficiency kept rather than lost. Conscript certainly can get various other things a Fighter alone cannot grab, but features it can grab that are similar to what Fighter gains are attained at a slower rate.

Fighter keeps proficiencies, gains Expert progression, loses only a few bonus feats, and gains Tension, which is an arguably better class feature. It should probably stand to lose the proficiencies, as similar to Cavalier, at the least. Then, you can say that it provides a middle-ground to Non-Practitioners. On its own, there is no middle-ground, and whether as a middle-ground or as a stand-alone, it feels weird in the system, if to me.

Edit: To clarify, taking away initial proficiencies takes away 1st level advantage between other classes. If it is designed with the idea that it will work as a middle-ground, then this loss will not matter, because you're going into Coiled Blade Fighter with another class that grants proficiencies likely anyways.

[Quarian Rex]

I'd go so far to say that it's now better than Conscript, if due to the points made to its proficiency kept rather than lost.

You seem to be criminally over valuing base armor/weapon proficiencies. Being proficient with more weapons does not actually increase a characters power. It only provides mutually exclusive options. Remember that any character that has a martial tradition already has access to all the proficiencies that they need, because they got to choose the ones that they actually wanted.

Coiled Blade fits the niche of the all-round weapon master, equally comfortable regardless of the steel in his hand. That is a niche that is not well reflected in other SoM classes but I do think that it has its place. That niche does not particularly increase the characters power to any large degree, especially not compared to the increased talent progression and bonus feats/special abilities of the Conscript.

[Coretron03]

So what happens if a coiled blade takes a martial tradition that he already has most of the benefits of? As in, they take armoured dreadnought? I would assume they wouldn't gain any compensation, though that would be weird as a large amount of the traditions wouldn't give the full benefit to Coiled Blades.

[Ssalarn]

I'd go so far to say that it's now better than Conscript, if due to the points made to its proficiency kept rather than lost. Conscript certainly can get various other things a Fighter alone cannot grab, but features it can grab that are similar to what Fighter gains are attained at a slower rate.

Conscript has two good saves, more skills, and a better skill list. Also the bonus talent and more overall flexibility. Other than that Quarian has largely said everything the design team would have said regarding why the Coiled Blade is structured the way it is. The Fighter chassis is weak compared to most other classes (in many ways even weaker than core rogue), and we didn't want to weaken that chassis further by taking away one of its only advantages (proficiencies), but giving it two martial traditions was also too much front-loading. Allowing the archetype for the most played core martial class to serve as one of the few back doors into a martial tradition for people dipping a toe into the system and giving Fighters a competitive starting point to the other classes were the main goals of the Coiled Blade's Martial Tradition class feature, and it does those both successfully.

[khadgar567]

you know i literally liked old skills equal to hit dice think in base book and why rover tradition get gladiator and warleader spheres instead of atletics sphere and some other sphere. they fluffed as close to bards damn it. they are not mma fighters trying to get big stages.
athletics more help to rovers then gladiator or war leader since lot of time performance require them to be fit for shape instead of screaming war cries and making boast to crowd. I can understand gladiator since boasts some how used as treats to opponent and way to play crowd but i dont get gladiator sphere in traveling entertainer hell even wrestling has better choices to help traveling bard then warleader since we can have called shot talent the mock battles and use boasts to make better tank and with help of atletics it gives more swashbuckling flavor then traveling mma fighter who some how trained by gypsyies at art of belly dancing so he can protect him self.

[Ualaa]

I guess the intent was to reduce sphere dipping. If a build is focused enough on a sphere, it won't notice a difference. If you play only until level 5 inclusive, you won't notice a difference. Up to level 10, a drawback might be helpful, if you can't spend another talent. Up to level 15, you might be forced to add a talent you din't want to, but games at this level are less likely. Mostly APs which are about to end in that range. Up to level 20? I never participated in a campaign that went past level 13, so who plays and is affected at this point?

Your mileage is of course different from mine.

I've never run a game that didn't have material for, and the plan to reach level 20.
And to not simply cap out at 20th and be done, but to have several sessions of play at that level to enjoy the final build with.

[kkplx]

While in the pilot seat, a character can be targeted by magic that does not require a form of attack or touch attack roll, but otherwise the pilot cannot be targeted by any form of attack until the independent invention itself is reduced to 0 hp. A target may attempt to target the pilot or wrestle them from the pilot seat, but only by entering the independent invention’s space and spending a full-round action climbing into the pilot’s seat themselves.

Multiple questions for this:

a) How does the ability to be targeted interact with the guardian sphere challenge? Since the suit and the pilot are separate creatures, would that mean challenged creature take the negatives of the challenge on all attack rolls, since they can never directly target the pilot?
b) Does this also protect you against incorporeal attacks like a ghost or a shadow?
b2) If yes, does this mean you cannot be touched by a healer to heal you, like with the life sphere (as long as the healer lacks the ranged healing talent)?
c) What about taking "covered" later? It's worse in every way for the guardian sphere case. It either makes you lose any way to interact with the outside, or it makes you targetable (unless that +8 cover ac is just there for show?).

d) The second part:
- Does that mean any creature in your space can spend a full round action to climb into the seat without provoking an AoO?
- What happens to the pilot in that case?
- Are any checks involved?
- Is there an attack that happens somewhere after the one for entering someone's square?
- What about a creature larger than the suit? It can't legally "enter the seat", so how does it get to the squishy filling without being a dumb brute?

Quoting these questions again since they're directly relevant to the build of one of my players in a game I will start this week.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

You'll want to emulate the Mechanic's action economy for Scholar pets as well, which is something I'm hoping we can touch on along with the Beastmastery sphere (or whatever we replace it with in Starfinder) in our first standalone SF release.

Considering all I've seen saying Drones are weaker than Exocortex for Mechanic (despite being far more popular), I'm personally hoping for them to be the focus of said Beastmastery replacement. Robot pals are a vital part of swashbuckling space adventure after all.

Barrage's limitations are the same as a normal Full Attack, meaning it can be used with Longarms (which deal significantly more damage than Small Arms) and with full-BAB classes, drastically increasing its effectiveness. The Barrage Sphere completely outclasses Full Attacks in every way except when used by Operatives who have Quad Attack or Triple Attack w/ Multi-Weapon Fighting, and that's only with Small Arms and Operative Melee Weapons.

Barrage's limitations are the same as a normal Pathfinder full attack, by my reading. So the penalties stack up way faster even if you get more attacks sooner. So it outcompetes Full Attacks if you can ever hit​ with those piddling attack bonuses characters get.

[Coretron03]

If I use vilgant sharpshooter to gain a threatened area, can I use Patrol to get a huge threatened area with that ranged weapon? It seems it does work, as it doesn't limit it to melee attacks. This is pretty cool by its self, but if it's combined with defend other you can takes hits for your allies 20ft away. That sword about to hit your wizard? Your fearsome bow skills cause his sword to fly towards you, hits you, then flys back to his confused owner. Maybe you shoot it a couple times with your bow? That does sound pretty cool. Maybe combine it with catch blade so they can't move because their sword is stuck on some guys sheild 20ft away. Or redirecting sheild to make the. hit somebody next to you. Doing research for my Gun-and-sheild character give weird results.

I really want to play this character now...

I figured out how to make the above combo even more crazy. If you use Covering Fire from Sniper, you can threaten an area really far away from you (110ft with a bow), then causing those people to attack you. Confusion Ensures!

Also, if you use Covering fire and combat patrol (Requires swift guardian and your martial focus) you can use Stand Still to repostion them as your AOO using your bow, as the text only requires you to be in patrol and that a creature moves through your threatened area, not moving through your Patrol threatened area. This is more themaric though, that guy 100ft away approaches you? Send him spiralling in whatever direction you choose.

Spheres of might is such a interesting system...

[ImperatorV]

Hi! Big fan of all the spheres systems here. Anyway, I'd like to talk about the Martial Companion Conjuration add-on. Martial Companions lose multiattack, devotion, evasion and the improved version, and in exchange get the proficient combat talent progression (so 7 combat talents total for a level 20 caster's companion). I'm going to make some rough comparisons here, let me know if you think they're off. Multiattack and Devotion are, I'd say, worth a combat talent each. That leaves evasion and improved evasion being exchanged for 5 combat talents. I'm not sure how balanced of a trade that is? Especially since many companions won't have very good reflex saves anyway. Plus, combat talents offer a wide variety of abilities, making them a much more versatile pick then the base companion abilities. I can't off the top of my head think of any companion builds where I'd rather have the default companion then the Martial archetype.

Also, over in the convoker's handbook playtest a great number of other Conjuration Companion archetypes are introduced, and none of them are as impressively powerful and versatile as Martial Companion. I think that's partially because some of the other companion archetypes need buffing (looking at you Mage), but it may be partially because Martial Companion is just the best archetype right now.

Sorry if this has been discussed already, I haven't read the whole thread.

EDIT: re-thinking some of this.

[Wartex1]

Barrage's limitations are the same as a normal Pathfinder full attack, by my reading. So the penalties stack up way faster even if you get more attacks sooner. So it outcompetes Full Attacks if you can ever hit​ with those piddling attack bonuses characters get.

Except as-is, Barrage's penalties are always less than that of a full attack's with the exception of the Operative, but Barrage isn't limited to small arms like Triple/Quad attack.

For reference, Barrage, for the same penalty as a normal Full Attack, gets three attacks instead of two. Or, if you want to stick to two attacks, it only has a minus 2 penalty instead of a minus 4.

[Rungo]

I figured out how to make the above combo even more crazy. If you use Covering Fire from Sniper, you can threaten an area really far away from you (110ft with a bow), then causing those people to attack you. Confusion Ensures!

Keep in mind that Cover Ally uses up your Immediate Action, so you will only be taking the damage for one ally once per turn. Cover Ally also only lets you take the damage for your ally, not the hit itself, so you will not be able to use Catch Blade and similar talents.

Spoiler: Cover Ally

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When an ally within your threatened area is the target of an attack roll, you may spend an immediate action to grant them a competence bonus to their armor class equal to 1/2 your base attack bonus (rounded down, minimum +1) against that attack. If this attack would still hit, you may choose to take the damage in your ally’s place.

Also, if you use Covering fire and combat patrol (Requires swift guardian and your martial focus) you can use Stand Still to reposition them as your AOO using your bow, as the text only requires you to be in patrol and that a creature moves through your threatened area, not moving through your Patrol threatened area. This is more thematic though, that guy 100ft away approaches you? Send him spiraling in whatever direction you choose.

This one seems to work fine as far as I can tell. Interesting oversight on their end to allow the use of Patrol with anything other than melee weapons.

[EldritchWeaver]

Your mileage is of course different from mine.

I've never run a game that didn't have material for, and the plan to reach level 20.
And to not simply cap out at 20th and be done, but to have several sessions of play at that level to enjoy the final build with.

Two campaigns are likely to break the 15th level ceiling, but aren't there yet. Maybe next year.

Conscript has two good saves, more skills, and a better skill list. Also the bonus talent and more overall flexibility. Other than that Quarian has largely said everything the design team would have said regarding why the Coiled Blade is structured the way it is. The Fighter chassis is weak compared to most other classes (in many ways even weaker than core rogue), and we didn't want to weaken that chassis further by taking away one of its only advantages (proficiencies), but giving it two martial traditions was also too much front-loading. Allowing the archetype for the most played core martial class to serve as one of the few back doors into a martial tradition for people dipping a toe into the system and giving Fighters a competitive starting point to the other classes were the main goals of the Coiled Blade's Martial Tradition class feature, and it does those both successfully.

How about this compromise, which would reduce the dipping incentive, while still be providing build-independent benefits:

Martial Tradition: The coiled blade gains a martial tradition independent of the normal martial tradition and does not count against its limit. The coiled blade gains one talent or feat from this tradition for each class level, until all four choices have been picked.

If this is still too dippable, then the spread could be shifted in some way, too.

[sunderedhero]

Another problem with the Darkness Defender archetype, it's abilities reference a "berzerking" ability, but the ability of the Beserker Sphere is called "Berserking".

Also a HUGE problem with almost all of the non-practitioner archetypes, they lack the wording that the "Proficiencies" ability modifies/replaces the class's normal weapon and armor proficiencies. Only the Savant archetype has the correct wording of, "This modifies the thaumaturge’s weapon and armor proficiencies.". This means that by RAW the classes gain all their normal proficiencies AND gain the simple weapons, light armor, bucklers, and martial tradition. Also the Alchemist archetype lacks this modified proficiency completely. Another editing problem I noticed is that all Paizo classes have the "Weapon and Armor Proficiency" listed under the "Class Features" section, but the Practitioner classes have them listed above it. In addition, the Practitioner classes have the "Class Abilities" section when to match Paizo standard it should be "Class Features".

This is just me being nitpicky but I noticed something else as I was making a list, the majority of the Sphere abilities that let you recover your martial focus have "focus" in the name, but some don't, any chance of this being changed?

Spoiler: List

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Immediate Action
Barrage
-Blitz Focus
Whenever you hit with at least two attacks while making a barrage, you may regain your martial focus as an immediate action.

Berserker
-Savage
Whenever you reduce a creature to 0 hit points or less with a melee or thrown weapon attack, you may spend an immediate action to regain martial focus. The creature must have a CR of at least half your character level (rounded down, minimum 1/2).

Boxing
-KO Focus
Whenever you successfully deal damage to a target with your counter punch, you may spend an immediate action to regain your martial focus. The creature must have a CR of at least half your character level (rounded down, minimum 1/2).

Duelist
-Focusing Advantage
Whenever you succeed at a disarm attempt made as an attack action, you may regain your martial focus as an immediate action.

Guardian
-Guardian’s Focus
When a creature affected by your challenge is reduced to 0 or fewer hit points or you succeed on a combat maneuver check made on an attack of opportunity while you have a patrol set up, you may regain martial focus as an immediate action.
If you posses the Defend Other talent, you may regain focus on your next turn whenever an enemy misses an ally benefiting from that talent with an attack.

Scoundrel
-Focusing Thievery
Whenever you successfully perform a Steal or Dirty Trick maneuver against an opponent within your reach, you may make a Sleight of Hand check against their CMD. If successful, the opponent is entangled until the start of your next turn, and you may spend an immediate action to move to any other occupied space adjacent to the target creature and regain your martial focus.

Shield
-Shielded Focus
While wielding a buckler, shield, or tower shield, you may spend a move action to regain your martial focus whenever you choose to fight defensively as part of an attack action.
Additionally, whenever an attack misses a creature benefiting from your active defense, you may regain your martial focus as an immediate action.

Trap
-Trapper’s Recovery
When a creature fails a save against or takes damage from your trap and you are aware of them doing so, you may gain martial focus as an immediate action.

Swift Action
Fencing
-Focusing Feint
Whenever you succeed at a feint against a creature, you may regain your martial focus as a swift action.

Move Action
Alchemy
-Focusing Formula (formulae)
Craft DC: 15
You create a concoction you can draw and drink as a move action to restore your martial focus. You may also draw and administer this formulae to an ally within your reach as a standard action, granting them its benefits as though they had drunk it themselves. You can increase the Craft DC for this item in increments of 10; each time you do so, the focusing formula becomes more potent, allowing you to drink less for the same effects, giving you an additional use of the item before it is consumed.

Athletics
-Whirlwind Flip
Whenever you succeed at an Acrobatics check to move through the threatened area of a creature whose CR is no less than 1/2 your total character level as part of a move action, you regain your martial focus.

Barrage
-Mobile Focus
Whenever you move at least 10 ft. but no more than half your total speed using a move action on your turn, you regain your martial focus.

Barroom
-Focusing Buzz
Whenever you drink an alcoholic beverage as a move action, you regain your martial focus.

Beastmastery
-Focusing Connection
You may make physical contact with one animal ally within your natural reach as a move action, regaining your martial focus and giving that animal ally a +1 bonus to all saving throws for 1 round. At 10 ranks in Handle Animal or Ride, this bonus increases to +2.

Brute
-Focused Might
Whenever you successfully perform a shove, you may regain your martial focus.

Duel Wielding
-Focusing Defense
You may spend a move action to regain your martial focus and gain a +1 circumstance bonus to your AC and CMD for 1 round. At +10 base attack bonus, this bonus increases to +2.

Lancer
-Focusing Finale
Whenever you remove your weapon from an impaled creature, you may regain your martial focus.

Open Hand
-Focusing Breath
As a move action, you may regain your martial focus and end the battered condition, if you have it.

Scout
-Hidden Focus
Whenever you use the Stealth skill to successfully hide when making a move action, you regain your martial focus.

Shield
-Shielded Focus
While wielding a buckler, shield, or tower shield, you may spend a move action to regain your martial focus whenever you choose to fight defensively as part of an attack action.
Additionally, whenever an attack misses a creature benefiting from your active defense, you may regain your martial focus as an immediate action.

Wrestling
-Rest Hold
As a move action while you are grappling an adjacent creature, you may regain your martial focus and treat that creature as granting you partial cover until the start of your next turn. If an attack misses your AC by 2 or less, compare the result to the grappled creature’s AC; if the attack roll would hit the grappled creature’s AC, resolve the attack as though the grappled creature was the original target. You cannot use this ability if you do not control the grapple.

Standard Action
Gladiator
-Self Confidence
You may perform a boast as a standard action to recover your martial focus. Doing so does not require the normal triggering condition for a boast.

Variable
Athletics
-Coordinated Movement
Whenever you take the withdraw action, you regain your martial focus.

Sniper
-Focusing Reload
You may regain martial focus whenever you use a move, standard, or full-round action to reload a weapon you are wielding (including nocking an arrow to a bow). If you can normally reload your weapon faster than a move action, you may choose to reload as a move action to gain this benefit.

Other
Warleader
-Focusing Tactics
Any ally currently affected by one of your shouts or tactics may spend a move action to restore your martial focus. The creature spending a move action must have an Intelligence of at least 3 and possess a number of Hit Dice at least equal to 1/2 your total Hit Dice.

-Focusing Cry (shout)
You may expend your martial focus to use this shout to restore the martial focus of 1 creature other than yourself within the shout’s affected area. For every 4 ranks in Diplomacy you possess, you may restore the martial focus of 1 additional creature. This is an instantaneous effect.

[stack]

As the book is now out, the archetype and prodigy playtest documents for Champions of the Spheres have been closed down. A big thank you to everyone that helped out!

[AlienFromBeyond]

While it's probably too late for this to be addressed now, I want to restate that I still really dislike that talents with associated feats of "Improved X manuever" such as Greater Brute give competence bonuses to their maneuvers, compared to the feats giving an untyped bonus. Since bonuses to attack rolls are also added to maneuver rolls with CMB, this means a SoM character can get a total higher bonus using the feats over the talents if they have another source of competence bonus to attacks such as the simple Bard's Inspire Courage, a Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone, or any number of archetypes and prestige classes. These specific talents being competence does not balance the math and keep things in line compared to regular PF, they actively hinder the total CMB PCs can get to deal with the absurd CMDs that PF monsters eventually reach. I get that competence was chosen to be the bonus type that makes sense for martials, and overall I agree, but changing bonuses that used to be untyped into competence is very different from making all new bonuses be competence to avoid over the top stacking.

[digiman619]

Slight typo on page 3 of CotS: Gish feats are described as "a new dvision of feats" propbably should be division (though I wonder why you don't say type of feat, but that's digressing)

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Except as-is, Barrage's penalties are always less than that of a full attack's with the exception of the Operative, but Barrage isn't limited to small arms like Triple/Quad attack.

For reference, Barrage, for the same penalty as a normal Full Attack, gets three attacks instead of two. Or, if you want to stick to two attacks, it only has a minus 2 penalty instead of a minus 4.

What? You realize that Barrage uses PF’d Full Attack penalties, right? Whereas Starfinder full attacks don’t have scaling penalties? Barrage is less accuracy for more shots just as intended.

[Wartex1]

What? You realize that Barrage uses PF’d Full Attack penalties, right? Whereas Starfinder full attacks don’t have scaling penalties? Barrage is less accuracy for more shots just as intended.

Did I miss that in the errata?

EDIT: After looking through the changelog and updated PDFs, I don't see anything that says that the Starfinder version of Barrage has any different penalties than the Pathfinder version (being -2 per additional shot).

EDIT 2: Though this reminds me, are there any plans to port SoP over to Starfinder as well?

[mrguymiah]

I'm reposting this question from the Spheres of Power AMA thread because of its overlap between the two systems. I'm also not familiar with the teams for each and am not sure if Spheres of Might would be intended to work like this.

"Q401: Is it going to be errata'd that Telekinesis' sphere's Dancing Weapon allows you to use Spheres of Might abilities, considering it allows you to apply Melee Feats? DM was also concerned about that one. I like to think the RaI is pretty clear, but it's still a technicality that should be addressed one way or another, imo.

>inb4 "no" and my build is broken."

Specifically, I use Telekinesis Sphere to scatter a handful of weapons around the field and combo it with Guardian Sphere to increase their threaten range, increasing the area my Zone talents affect.