[Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

[Xararion]

I was honestly at a bit of a loss regarding which particular thread this one goes in, the might or power questions. Posted it here in the end since it was more about combat spheres.

The Prodigy has two imbue abilities that specify an attack action as their trigger (destructive edge and vampiric blade). Both of these are what helps you bolster up your damage to be competitive on the rounds you're not using finishers, alongside inspired sequence. However my question here is, when you're using dual wielding or barrage spheres, do you get the damage bonus from these imbue abilities to all of your attacks, or just the 'primary' one that is rolled first.

For vampiric blade especially, having the ability to trigger the damage twice (or at least more reliably) would be great boon since half your level in temp hp that only lasts few rounds at most is not the most amazing benefit.

This is mostly coming from me thinking whether or not prodigy has reason to go for smaller weapons (thrown weapons in particular, also dual wielding) as opposed to easy to build for twohanded weapons, especially since prodigy is particularly good at using heavy weapons with larger crit multiplier due to executioner finisher.

[stack]

I was honestly at a bit of a loss regarding which particular thread this one goes in, the might or power questions. Posted it here in the end since it was more about combat spheres.

The Prodigy has two imbue abilities that specify an attack action as their trigger (destructive edge and vampiric blade). Both of these are what helps you bolster up your damage to be competitive on the rounds you're not using finishers, alongside inspired sequence. However my question here is, when you're using dual wielding or barrage spheres, do you get the damage bonus from these imbue abilities to all of your attacks, or just the 'primary' one that is rolled first.

For vampiric blade especially, having the ability to trigger the damage twice (or at least more reliably) would be great boon since half your level in temp hp that only lasts few rounds at most is not the most amazing benefit.

This is mostly coming from me thinking whether or not prodigy has reason to go for smaller weapons (thrown weapons in particular, also dual wielding) as opposed to easy to build for twohanded weapons, especially since prodigy is particularly good at using heavy weapons with larger crit multiplier due to executioner finisher.

Dual wielding sphere specifies that only the initial main hand attack counts as an attack action. Barrages ought to have had the same language.

THP that you pick up in a fight really only needs to last until you get hit; more than a few rounds duration is wasted unless it is long enough to last until the next fight, which isn't how sequence is supposed to work.

[Xararion]

Hmm, yeah, that was how I figured it was going to work. Not going to say I'm not little bit disappointed, but it's ultimately more logical for it to work like that, even if it leaves some weapons as fairly weak options. I suppose inspired sequence helps enough to consider using throwing weapons or light weapons, but then you're holding your finisher to keep your damage on par. Either way, thanks for clarifying it.

But then. Sometimes style trumps efficiency.. at least if group isn't made of munchkins, heh.

As for the THP, I agree with you, even if the amount you gain from vampiric blade is pretty low.

[Arcueid]

I have a question.

Can you use the Dual Wielding sphere with unarmed strikes?

Dual Attack says:

Spoiler: Dual Attack

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Whenever you make an attack action with a light or one-handed weapon, you can make an additional attack with a light or one-handed weapon held in your off-hand, though both attacks take a -2 penalty on their attack rolls when doing so; only your initial main hand attack qualifies as an attack action, and the additional attack cannot be made with the same weapon as your initial main hand attack. Your off-hand attack only applies 1/2 your Strength modifier, and if your off-hand attack is made with anything other than a light weapon, both attacks take an additional -2 penalty. Associated Feat: Two-Weapon Fighting

Which so far we're good for. Unarmed strikes are light, and base pathfinder lets you do Main/Off attacks with them. Though Monks state no attack is "off hand" and always get full damage, though that raises questions.

The rules get more muddy when you look at the rules for Main Hand / Off-Hand in SoM

Spoiler: Main Hand / Off-Hand

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The main hand and off-hand designations apply specifically when using two weapons or a double weapon to gain more attacks than that action would normally grant. You must designate one weapon as your main hand weapon when making an attack; all other manufactured weapons are treated as off-hand weapons and only add half your Strength modifier to damage on attacks.

The main hand has no specification, but then says "all other manufactured weapons are treated as off-hand weapons" which only monks get to count unarmed strikes as manufactured.

Now my assumption here is this is supposed to be similar to the monk one, which is also kinda unclear; with the idea being that unarmed strikes/natural weapons are never subject to the "off-hand" strength penalty. But as its worded it suggests unarmed and natural weapons are always invalid to be off-hand for talents.

[N. Jolly]

I have a question.

Can you use the Dual Wielding sphere with unarmed strikes?

Dual Attack says:

Spoiler: Dual Attack

Show

Whenever you make an attack action with a light or one-handed weapon, you can make an additional attack with a light or one-handed weapon held in your off-hand, though both attacks take a -2 penalty on their attack rolls when doing so; only your initial main hand attack qualifies as an attack action, and the additional attack cannot be made with the same weapon as your initial main hand attack. Your off-hand attack only applies 1/2 your Strength modifier, and if your off-hand attack is made with anything other than a light weapon, both attacks take an additional -2 penalty. Associated Feat: Two-Weapon Fighting

Which so far we're good for. Unarmed strikes are light, and base pathfinder lets you do Main/Off attacks with them. Though Monks state no attack is "off hand" and always get full damage, though that raises questions.

The rules get more muddy when you look at the rules for Main Hand / Off-Hand in SoM

Spoiler: Main Hand / Off-Hand

Show

The main hand and off-hand designations apply specifically when using two weapons or a double weapon to gain more attacks than that action would normally grant. You must designate one weapon as your main hand weapon when making an attack; all other manufactured weapons are treated as off-hand weapons and only add half your Strength modifier to damage on attacks.

The main hand has no specification, but then says "all other manufactured weapons are treated as off-hand weapons" which only monks get to count unarmed strikes as manufactured.

Now my assumption here is this is supposed to be similar to the monk one, which is also kinda unclear; with the idea being that unarmed strikes/natural weapons are never subject to the "off-hand" strength penalty. But as its worded it suggests unarmed and natural weapons are always invalid to be off-hand for talents.

Dual wielding sphere is intended to be able to be used with unarmed strikes, yes. Same with natural weapons.

[Arcueid]

Dual wielding sphere is intended to be able to be used with unarmed strikes, yes. Same with natural weapons.

Thanks, its worded so strangely in that first section I was somewhat confused.

[decamonos]

Is the Scholar Knack "Trick Arrows" limited to be used with only bolts or arrows, or could it be used with any ranged weapon? The weirdest case being something like the blaster armorist.

[Sho]

Q. If the character has Destruction Sphere (Energy Blade) and the Spell Attack [Champion] feat, does the Energy Blade attack provoke an attack of opportunity?

[Arcueid]

Q. If the character has Destruction Sphere (Energy Blade) and the Spell Attack [Champion] feat, does the Energy Blade attack provoke an attack of opportunity?

Spell attack doesn't specify that it overwrites the normal rules for energy blade just that the attack that accompanies it can be counted as the attack action; but regardless it still says you're casting the spell as a standard action.

As a result unless you have a class feature giving you the ability to ignore it (like entropic sage hedgewitch with unarmed strike/monk weapons) or the melee blaster feat, otherwise you'll have to make concentration checks to cast defensively as normal.

[Sho]

Spell attack doesn't specify that it overwrites the normal rules for energy blade just that the attack that accompanies it can be counted as the attack action; but regardless it still says you're casting the spell as a standard action.

As a result unless you have a class feature giving you the ability to ignore it (like entropic sage hedgewitch with unarmed strike/monk weapons) or the melee blaster feat, otherwise you'll have to make concentration checks to cast defensively as normal.

Oh, thanks. Getting Energy Blade working without a hassle was getting to me, and I glossed over the Melee Blaster feat.

Here is another question.

Q. If a character is wearing armor and uses the Hybrid Transformation feat, do they lose their armor bonus to Armor Class? The original effect concerning Alteration states that armor melds with the transformation.

[Arcueid]

Oh, thanks. Getting Energy Blade working without a hassle was getting to me, and I glossed over the Melee Blaster feat.

Here is another question.

Q. If a character is wearing armor and uses the Hybrid Transformation feat, do they lose their armor bonus to Armor Class? The original effect concerning Alteration states that armor melds with the transformation.

Yes because its still the same alteration sphere polymoph effect. That said you have options.

1. If the transformation is humanoid enough you should be able to just take off your armor and put it back on after transforming. The general benefit of transformation is it lasts forever so it makes it easier for having armor. (assuming you're still 2 arms, 2 legs, and a head. If you have hybrid with avian for wings on top of your normal humanoid form you might be able to still do it with wings, but some DMs might say the armor needs to be custom).

2. If you're not humanoid then you'll need to get some special made armor for that form but once transformed you should be able to just have it equipped to you then (similar to part 1 but requiring different armor)

3. If you're wanting to only transform in certain situations for flavor reasons, or don't want to carry around a special set of armor, then the "wild" property is your best bet. This is kind of the worst option as it is a +3 enhancement meaning its gonna be at least 16k gold to get a +1 suit with it.

Wild is meant for players using the actual alteration sphere where duration isn't reasonable enough to get in/out of armor, but considering this is in the SoM thread and not the SoP i'm going to assume you're not a caster/shifter to transform.

As a small FYI spheres alters the wording slightly on it.

Spoiler: Wild

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Armor with this special ability usually appears to be made from magically hardened animal pelt. The wearer of a suit of armor or a shield with this ability preserves his armor or shield bonus (and any enhancement bonus) while in an alternate form, such as those granted by the Alteration sphere. Armor and shields with this ability usually appear to be covered in leaf patterns. While the wearer is transformed, the armor cannot be seen.

Its one of the great annoyances of polymorph effects, which is why alteration has "blank form" for early levels, and transformation to just have it never end.

[Skaia]

Don't know if this has been asked before but in regards to the Punishment Advanced Talent in the Guardian Sphere, it states as follows:

Spoiler: Punishment

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When you deal damage to a creature while you have damage in your delayed damage pool, you may spend an immediate action to expend your martial focus and deal damage equal to your delayed damage pool to the target creature. If you possess the Cold Iron Call or Durable talents, you may also inflict any effects you are postponing with those abilities. If the effect allowed a save, the target may make a save immediately at the original DC.

A successful Fortitude save reduces the amount of damage transferred by half and negates the transfer of any effects.

The parts I bolded kind of confused me, since I'm not sure if the target just takes the damage and effects (inflict) and then the user of this talent takes the damage and statuses on their next turn

or if they transfer the statuses and damage onto the target and don't take any of it when they normally would.

[Tariyan Draegr]

Given how you aren't allowed to take the martial study scholar lnack, does that mean if I take it for the unarmed spheres, I can use my scholar level to determine attack bonus for unarmed strikes?

[Sho]

Q. How does Spell Attack and Destruction Sphere (Energy Blade) interact with Dual Wielding Sphere (Perfect Set-Up)?

All Energy Blade requires is that the attack hits, but Perfect Set-Up states that the first attack deals only the weapon's base damage dice. In tandem, assuming that the target is already flanked by the practitioner, how does sneak attack dice interact with this combat talent?

[Arcueid]

Q. How does Spell Attack and Destruction Sphere (Energy Blade) interact with Dual Wielding Sphere (Perfect Set-Up)?

All Energy Blade requires is that the attack hits, but Perfect Set-Up states that the first attack deals only the weapon's base damage dice. In tandem, assuming that the target is already flanked by the practitioner, how does sneak attack dice interact with this combat talent?

This one needs some clarification but RAW one can assume "only the weapon’s damage die" is a hard limiter allowing no other modifications to damage occur.
If an effect occured separate from the weapon and was simply triggered on a hit maybe, but at least in the case of "additional damage" or modifiers to the weapon's damage won't occur.

As such as destructive blast, power attack, sneak attack, weapon enchantments, and likely even vital strike will leave the main hand attack unaffected.

I could be wrong of course, but the only other interpretation would be that it only removes stat modifiers from the damage roll (aka instead of d6+str its just d6), but everything else stays. This seems a little less like the intent/reasonable as its very easy to play a build with little stat modifier influence (like a dex twf character with finesse fighting taken 2x), which considering the amount of sources of additional damage one could find losing even +6 worth of str modifier is nothing compared to hitting the easiest to hit defense and effectively gaining auto-hit damage.

[Adam Meyers]

The new Drop Dead Studios AMA thread has opened, and I would like to direct questions that have been posted here to there:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...heres+of+might

If you have a question on here that still hasn't been answered, could I ask you to repost it there? I would like to consolidate all discussion for everyone's ease of use.